How mysticism is undermining Bible Christianity today

[garee]

What's the difference between the Christian experience and the mystical experience?

They both subjectively think they come from God.

What makes one correct and the other incorrect?

The Holy place as the source of faith the Glory of God.. One Holy place as it is written . Or you could say sola scriptura the good ground. .
The defender of faith. .

Mystical sources as personal experiences are revealed as "will worship" (seeing things that are not there, found in in Colossian2:18

I would offer we must be careful how we hear. We are living in a time like never before..... much confusion . Smart devices. Use them wisely.

It would seem experience is the new age, old age gospel. History repeats itself because people don't change . Makes me wonder as in Luke 18 . . When he comes on the last day will he find faith or like in the days of Noah, evil thoughts in a heart as natural mankind continually. The kind of thoughts that cannot give a person rest from their works, and provide no future hope beyond the grave.

Christ is our Sabbath yoked with him we do rest with him

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. Colossians 2:18

Jesus sent into the wilderness as our scapegoat weakened in his fleshly mind. . . 40 days no food refused to honor mysticism as a source of faith . But rather Jesus did the will of the father not seen, who puts His words in the mouth of His Son, and Jesus said …..as it is written again, and again as it is written to establish the once source of hearing God. Three denotes the end of the matter.

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.Mathew 4: 7-11

 

[crossnote]

What's the difference between the Christian experience and the mystical experience?

They both subjectively think they come from God.

What makes one correct and the other incorrect?

One produces the fruit of the Spirit, and points to the same Jesus that Scripture does, the other points to self.
One points inward and glorifies self, the other points to a bloody cross on a Hill some 2000 years ago.

An experience in and of itself is nothing, but if it is attended with words, (as all biblical visions and dreams were) then those words are tested against the objective Word of God.
Otherwise, we are left with no Standard and anything goes with no Absolutes.

 

[crossnote]

I am positive,anyone completely sold out to Jesus operating in the gifts and totally blown out to God and his kingdom would be labeled by most here as a mystic and heretic.

A Christian mystic would be found wanting by this standard...

Isaiah 8:20 NKJV
[20] To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[crossnote]

I think what we have here is saying the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the bride obsessed with her groom is basically a bunch of mysticism.
Correct?

No. Because Jesus is our mediator, whereas mystics claim to have a direct line to God.

 

[Dino246]

Not at all. I think of you as brother. I just lost my older brother .

Sorry to hear that.

I asked the question, because the graphic you posted addresses atheists.

 

[garee]

Yes and no.
Are we quibbling over dictionary definitions?
Faith is a gift from God. When I was born new again by the indwelling Holy Spirit I received the gift of faith that validated my
seeking for God through believing the gospel.

Can't serve two masters. yes ,yes or no, no ? Faith as a law does not provide doubt . The opposite of faith is unbelief, no faith. Christians can doubt when denying the faith in unbelief .He must increase as we decrease.

Cause and effect? or effect as the cause? .

Validates im seeking us? Or us seeking Him?

Scriptures inform us that God is of one mind and always does whatsoever his own souls pleases . We are informed because of that that it is he the performs that appointed to us as our imputed righteousness. (Job 23)

We are not born with a understanding of who God is or his plan of salvation. Even Jesus as the Son of man the one used to represent the righteous one not seen learned in knowledge and grew. we must have His understanding before we can believe the good news.

The Jews who required as sign before they believed turning the gospel up side down and made it about the temporal giving them a false zeal for understanding and taking away the understanding of faith. .No man of his own volition can come. They it would seem do not know which way to turn in order to hear. God as in all cases must to the first works .His first love for us.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.Roman 3:10-11

 

[Dino246]

Yes and no.
Are we quibbling over dictionary definitions?
Faith is a gift from God. When I was born new again by the indwelling Holy Spirit I received the gift of faith that validated my
seeking for God through believing the gospel.
...

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.Roman 3:10-11

You just contradicted Scripture. Scripture says there is none who seeks God, but you claim to have been seeking God.

You also contradict your own words: you believed the Gospel, and then God gave you the gift of faith? Um, no.

 

[crossnote]

Yes and no.
Are we quibbling over dictionary definitions?
Faith is a gift from God. When I was born new again by the indwelling Holy Spirit I received the gift of faith that validated my
seeking for God through believing the gospel.

Can't serve two masters. yes ,yes or no, no ? Faith as a law does not provide doubt . The opposite of faith is unbelief, no faith. Christians can doubt when denying the faith in unbelief .He must increase as we decrease.

Cause and effect? or effect as the cause? .

Validates im seeking us? Or us seeking Him?

Scriptures inform us that God is of one mind and always does whatsoever his own souls pleases . We are informed because of that that it is he the performs that appointed to us as our imputed righteousness. (Job 23)

We are not born with a understanding of who God is or his plan of salvation. Even Jesus as the Son of man the one used to represent the righteous one not seen learned in knowledge and grew. we must have His understanding before we can believe the good news.

The Jews who required as sign before they believed turning the gospel up side down and made it about the temporal giving them a false zeal for understanding and taking away the understanding of faith. .No man of his own volition can come. They it would seem do not know which way to turn in order to hear. God as in all cases must to the first works .His first love for us.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.Roman 3:10-11

I won't answer this because you didn't quote me. If you want me to respond please quote me. I just happened to see this post.

 

[Waggles]

I am positive,anyone completely sold out to Jesus operating in the gifts and totally blown out to God and his kingdom would be labeled by most here as a mystic and heretic.

They certainly do in the Bible Discussion Forum.
worse, like The Mormons and others, it is all Satanic.

 

[Waggles]

No. Because Jesus is our mediator, whereas mystics claim to have a direct line to God.

some confusion here
in seeking salvation by believing the gospel all must come unto Jesus [Lord, Saviour, Redeemer, God] and all our prayers go up
to Jesus and through Jesus to our Father .
Truly Jesus is the mediator between Earth and Heaven.

But when a converted person receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the sign of speaking in a new tongue, then when we
pray in the Holy Spirit we have direct access to our Father by the Spirit ...
For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. - Ephesians 2:18
Our prayers come up to our Father to the throne of grace. Direct access by his Holy Spirit.

When we operate the voice gifts of the Holy Spirit in our church meeting - unknown tongues, interpretation and prophecy -
God is again talking directly to his church, to his children. No mediator needed.

What is the difference between fulfilling scripture and mysticism?
The Holy Spirit is also the Spirit of truth and leads us to the truth of Jesus and the Word of God.
Mysticism is about secret knowledge that gives personal advantage and often leads to power and riches in this world, but
in the end one does not arrive at the truth [Jesus].
Appearances by the angel "Gabriel" in caves to men in history does not lead to any Godly truth.

 

[stonesoffire]

I listen to Amazons praise and worship channel frequently on Alexa, and the songs are good.

But, this morning I heard one that I would call new age. It really bothered me too.

It was a repeated phrase “open up to the light” with soulful sounds playing.

I sincerely hope no one uses this song as a soaking song.

Soaking in my understanding is just to listen quietly in His presence. At least that is what I’ve gleaned.

Meditating on the Word however, imo, would be more beneficial.

And I do agree with your post absolutely. (The person).

Am certain Jesus would be labeled the same.

 

[stonesoffire]

some confusion here
in seeking salvation by believing the gospel all must come unto Jesus [Lord, Saviour, Redeemer, God] and all our prayers go up
to Jesus and through Jesus to our Father .
Truly Jesus is the mediator between Earth and Heaven.

But when a converted person receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the sign of speaking in a new tongue, then when we
pray in the Holy Spirit we have direct access to our Father by the Spirit ...
For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. - Ephesians 2:18
Our prayers come up to our Father to the throne of grace. Direct access by his Holy Spirit.

When we operate the voice gifts of the Holy Spirit in our church meeting - unknown tongues, interpretation and prophecy -
God is again talking directly to his church, to his children. No mediator needed.

What is the difference between fulfilling scripture and mysticism?
The Holy Spirit is also the Spirit of truth and leads us to the truth of Jesus and the Word of God.
Mysticism is about secret knowledge that gives personal advantage and often leads to power and riches in this world, but
in the end one does not arrive at the truth [Jesus].
Appearances by the angel "Gabriel" in caves to men in history does not lead to any Godly truth.

Theresa of Ávila, and St. John of the Cross were called mystics. The former wrote a book whose title I’ve forgotten at this moment, but sounded like one I would like to look at.

I don’t think either was looking for anything worldly.

 

[crossnote]

But when a converted person receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the sign of speaking in a new tongue, then when we
pray in the Holy Spirit we have direct access to our Father by the Spirit ...
For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. -
Our prayers come up to our Father to the throne of grace. Direct access by his Holy Spirit.

I'm not going to get into a debate on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit but I will say this...
when you say ' Direct access by his Holy Spirit' that right there shows a mediator and even the Holy Spirit is ours through other mediatorships, like the shed blood of Jesus and Jesus Himself who said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father but through Me".
So unlike Mysticism, the true Christian acknowledges this mediatorial approach to God. Even the so called Christian who claims to be a mystic, tries to bypass what God has set before us in our approach to Him. IOW, there is no direct connection from man to God.

 

[stonesoffire]

I'm not going to get into a debate on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit but I will say this...
when you say ' Direct access by his Holy Spirit' that right there shows a mediator and even the Holy Spirit is ours through other mediatorships, like the shed blood of Jesus and Jesus Himself who said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father but through Me".
So unlike Mysticism, the true Christian acknowledges this mediatorial approach to God. Even the so called Christian who claims to be a mystic, tries to bypass what God has set before us in our approach to Him. IOW, there is no direct connection from man to God.

How does these so called Christians who claim to be mystics bypass what God has set before us in our approach to Him?

And what do you say is the approach that is lawful before Father?

 

[oldethennew]

there is only ONE-WAY to approach God, The Father, and that is through The/our- Mediator, Jesus Christ -
we indeed pray to The Father, 'Our Father who art in heaven'........, - but, Jesus Christ sits at The Father's right hand,
and acts as our 'INTERCESSOR' - this is God's Rule and Pattern from the beginning -
(if one makes-up their 'own rules', they WILL FAIL)

 

[Nehemiah6]

Theresa of Ávila, and St. John of the Cross were called mystics.

They were also committed Roman Catholics, and believed all their teachings. Teresa was opposed to the Protestant Reformation and was a part of the Counter-Reformation.

She also experienced levitations: "Often Teresa would be in a state of trance while levitating. In some cases the nuns would try to keep her on the ground but would fail."

https://www.historydisclosure.com/teresa-de-avila-levitating-saint/

 

[crossnote]

How does these so called Christians who claim to be mystics bypass what God has set before us in our approach to Him?

And what do you say is the approach that is lawful before Father?

They usually by pass by ignoring the Cross and it's importance for us to come into God's presence in the first place. i.e. without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. They just willy nilly zip into what they think is His presence without a thought or giving of thanks. The death and resurrection of Christ is something they think is for babes, not knowing it is essential for our everyday walk. They don't even see that Jesus is interceding for them continually, it's just them and the spirit.

 

[Nehemiah6]

What is the difference between fulfilling scripture and mysticism?

Since someone mentioned Teresa of Avila, let's take her as an example of not fulfilling Scripture, but engaging in Mysticism.

Teresa is well known for her bouts of levitation. But you will not find a single mention of levitation id the Bible. Here is an overview, and why it should be regarded as an occult or demonic phenomenon:

Levitation

DESCRIPTION
Levitation is a phenomenon of psychokinesis (PK) in which objects, people, and animals are lifted into the air without any visibly physical means and float or fly about. The phenomenon has been said to occur in mediumship, shamanism, trances, mystical rapture, and demonic possession. Some cases of levitation appear to be spontaneous, while spiritual or magical adepts are said to be able to control it consciously.

There seems to be several general characteristics about levitation. The duration of the phenomenon may last from a few minutes to hours. Generally it requires a great amount of concentration or being in a state of trance. Physical mediums that have been touched during levitation usually fall back to a surface. Levitations of saints usually are accompanied by a luminous glow around the body.

Numerous incidents of levitation have been recorded in Christianity and Islam. Among the first was Simon Magus in the first century. Other incidents reported among the Roman Catholic saints include the incident of Joseph of Cupertino (1603-1663), the most famous, who is said to have often levitated through the air. It is reported he often gave a little shriek just before levitating, and on one occasion levitated for as long as two hours.

Saint Teresa of Avila was another well known saint who reported levitating. She told of experiencing it during states of rapture. One eyewitness, Sister Anne of the Incarnation, said Saint Teresa levitated a foot and a half off the ground for about a half hour.

Saint Teresa wrote of one of her experiences: 'It seemed to me, when I tried to make some resistance, as if a great force beneath my feet lifted me up. I know of nothing with which to compare it; but it was much more violent than other spiritual visitations, and I was therefore as one ground to pieces.' (Evelyn Underhill 'Mysticism,' 1955)

Also Saint Teresa observed these levitations frightened her but there was nothing she could do to control them. She did not become unconscious, but saw herself being lifted up...

https://www.tokenrock.com/explain-levitation-64.html

 

[Waggles]

The death and resurrection of Christ is something they think is for babes, not knowing it is essential for our everyday walk. They don't even see that Jesus is interceding for them continually, it's just them and the spirit.

what gobbledegook is this?

 

[crossnote]

what gobbledegook is this?

Which part of my two sentences is gobblygook? The part where people consider the message of the cross for babes or where they ignore the fact that Jesus is our High Priest interceding for us?