How To Be Un-Saved

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Mar 14, 2011
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#21
Say what you like, I am sticking to what the Greek text says:

the one who keeps believing in me (Greek present tense) will never thirst

ho pisteuon eis eme ou me dipsesei popote John 6:35b
No, You will stick to what your heart desires.

I will stick to what the greek says also. Whoever comes to a state of belief will receive the food from God which endures forever. And who ever recieves this gift from God will..

never hunger
never thirst
will live forever
will never die
has past from death to life
will live as long as Jesus remains alive
will be resurrected by Jesus.
will NEVER be lost
will be risen by him on the last day.

Either Jesus meant every word he said, or he did not.


He did not say they will only have these things as long as they continue to believe, those are your words.

again, Continue to trust yourself to earn eternal life by your power to believe. I will continue to trust God and his ability to keep me from falling. and continue to accomplish when he promised he would finish.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#22
1 john 2 19


They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

who are they? they who no longer believe and by their unbelief, have become against Christ (deny him)
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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900
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#23

who are they? they who no longer believe and by their unbelief, have become against Christ (deny him)
unbelievers

false believers

could be the self righteous who look to works of the law
could be false converts who harden themself to the point of being reprobate and turning from the knowledge they once had (not faith... knowledge of God)

or anything in between


they were not made new
and were never of us
 

joefizz

Senior Member
Apr 23, 2017
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#24
So I tell you: if you keep on taking care of my property then I will never take you to court or sue you.
(crazy example, I know . . . LOL! :p)

You at a moment in time begin to take care of my property, but then you stop taking care of my property. Does my promise to never take you to court hold?

Jesus said: he that keeps on believing in me shall never thirst,. . . and him that keeps coming to me I will in no wise cast out.
Well your promise is not equal to a promise of God's,so it's pointless to ask such a question.
 

joefizz

Senior Member
Apr 23, 2017
13,684
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#25
This was on my Disqus this morning by CS Berean, and it was so good, I thought I'd share it here.


If a Born-Again Christian willingly chooses to lose their salvation, after receiving Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior and repenting of their sin (Acts 2:38, 16:31; Rom 10:9-10), the common-sense, logical reality is that God, the Father, would have to ask Jesus, God the Son, to give back His gift of love to Him and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37) and ask God, the Holy Spirit to disobey the Father's commands and permanently withdraw His presence. The person would have to un-drink the water of eternal life given by Jesus and so that they will be thirsty again (Jn 4:14).

Jesus would have to do the following:

Quit as their defense attorney (1 Jn 2:1)
No longer protect or keep them safe (Jn 17:9-12)
Divorce them (Rev 19:7)
Rescind their citizenship of Heaven (Jn 15:16; Eph 2:12-13,19)
Put them back into the world (Jn 17:16)
Blot out their names from the book of life (Rev 3:5)
Allow death and life, angels and rulers, things present and things to come, powers, height, and depth, and anything else in all creation, to separate them from the love of God found in Him (Rom 8:38-39)
No longer be their advocate before the Father (1 John 2:1)
Make them an un-new creation (2 Cor 5:17);
Make them un-near to Him (Eph 2:12-13,19)
Un-bury them and un-baptize them so that they will no longer walk in newness of life(Rom 6:4)
Un-crucify their old nature (Gal 2:20)
Un-adopt them (Rom 8:23)
Un-circumcise them (Col 2:11)
Un-complete them (Col 2:9-10)
Un-author their faith (Heb 12:2)
Un-finish their faith (Heb 12:2)
Un-hold them from the firm grasp of His hand (John 10:28-29)
Un-buy and refund the payment He made by His blood
Un-predestine them so they can no longer be conformed to His image
Un-sanctify them (John 17:17; Heb 10:14)
Un-deliver them from the domain of darkness (Col 1:13)
Un-transfer them out of His kingdom, where they were once conditionally sanctified daily (Rom 8:28-31; Eph 1:11)
Un-call them (Rom 8:30,9:24,; 1 Cor 1:2,9; Gal 5:13; Eph 1:18)
Un-justify them (Rom 3:24,28,5:9,10:10; 1 Cor 6:11; Titus 3:7)
Un-glorify them (Rom 8:25, 28-31)
Un-cancel all their spiritual debts (Col 2:13-14)
Un-seal them (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5; Eph 1:13, 4:30)
Un-wash them (Tutus 3:5)
Un-forgive them of all their sins (1 Cor 6:11)
Un-forget their sins (Heb 10:17)
Un-consider them holy (Eph 1:4)
Un-consider them blameless in His sight (Eph 1:4, 2:8; Rom 8:9,11:6)
Un-buy them (1 Cor: 6:19-20, 7:23-24)
Un-born them (1 Jn 2:29, 3:9, 4:7, 5:1,4,18)
Move out from living within them as the new Holy of Holies (1 John 2:19, 3:6,9; Rom 8:9)
Revoke their position of no longer living in His new nature (Rom 8:9)
Rescind and fail to honor His promise to never leave and forsake them (Heb 13:5)
Go back on and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37).

God, the Holy Spirit, who was given as a guarantee (2 Cor 5:5) would have to do the following:
Cut them out of His Will as co-heirs with Jesus (Rom 8:17).
Un-fill them (becoming un-Born-Again) (Col 2:9-10);
Un-anoint them (1 John 2:27)
Stop and undo His good work begun in them (Phil 1:6, 2:13)
Fail to honor His promise to keep them from stumbling until the end when Jesus comes again (1 Cor 1:8; Jude 1:24-25).

To say that an individual could be separated from the love of God or remove themselves from His firm grasp, and His promise to NEVER leave them, after He bought and paid for them, and they are His possession, as well as His dwelling place, the Holy of Holies, is at the very least, illogical and intellectually incongruous.

When God makes a promise, He NEVER reneges on, or breaks, His word.

Just saying...
Hmmm "how to be unsaved"?
well one would have to "hate" God,"desire death" and "want to serve the devil".
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
5,373
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#26
So which is it? Is the person who says he is saved but living in sin still saved despite his sin, or is he showing himself to have never been born again to begin with?
which is it? not for you to judge.
 

joefizz

Senior Member
Apr 23, 2017
13,684
482
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#27
Hmmm "how to be unsaved"?
well one would have to "hate" God,"desire death" and "want to serve the devil".
hmmm does this sound like anything a saved person would want?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#28
which is it? not for you to judge.

Well the bible says no one born of God can live in sin, and whoever lives in sin has never seen God or known God. SO scripture answers his question, He just refuses to see it.
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
4,871
900
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#29

Well the bible says no one born of God can live in sin, and whoever lives in sin has never seen God or known God. SO scripture answers his question, He just refuses to see it.
1 peter 1

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.


___________



1 John 3:9
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


1 John 2:1
2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
 
Sep 14, 2017
900
19
0
#30
This was on my Disqus this morning by CS Berean, and it was so good, I thought I'd share it here.


If a Born-Again Christian willingly chooses to lose their salvation, after receiving Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior and repenting of their sin (Acts 2:38, 16:31; Rom 10:9-10), the common-sense, logical reality is that God, the Father, would have to ask Jesus, God the Son, to give back His gift of love to Him and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37) and ask God, the Holy Spirit to disobey the Father's commands and permanently withdraw His presence. The person would have to un-drink the water of eternal life given by Jesus and so that they will be thirsty again (Jn 4:14).

Jesus would have to do the following:

Quit as their defense attorney (1 Jn 2:1)
No longer protect or keep them safe (Jn 17:9-12)
Divorce them (Rev 19:7)
Rescind their citizenship of Heaven (Jn 15:16; Eph 2:12-13,19)
Put them back into the world (Jn 17:16)
Blot out their names from the book of life (Rev 3:5)
Allow death and life, angels and rulers, things present and things to come, powers, height, and depth, and anything else in all creation, to separate them from the love of God found in Him (Rom 8:38-39)
No longer be their advocate before the Father (1 John 2:1)
Make them an un-new creation (2 Cor 5:17);
Make them un-near to Him (Eph 2:12-13,19)
Un-bury them and un-baptize them so that they will no longer walk in newness of life(Rom 6:4)
Un-crucify their old nature (Gal 2:20)
Un-adopt them (Rom 8:23)
Un-circumcise them (Col 2:11)
Un-complete them (Col 2:9-10)
Un-author their faith (Heb 12:2)
Un-finish their faith (Heb 12:2)
Un-hold them from the firm grasp of His hand (John 10:28-29)
Un-buy and refund the payment He made by His blood
Un-predestine them so they can no longer be conformed to His image
Un-sanctify them (John 17:17; Heb 10:14)
Un-deliver them from the domain of darkness (Col 1:13)
Un-transfer them out of His kingdom, where they were once conditionally sanctified daily (Rom 8:28-31; Eph 1:11)
Un-call them (Rom 8:30,9:24,; 1 Cor 1:2,9; Gal 5:13; Eph 1:18)
Un-justify them (Rom 3:24,28,5:9,10:10; 1 Cor 6:11; Titus 3:7)
Un-glorify them (Rom 8:25, 28-31)
Un-cancel all their spiritual debts (Col 2:13-14)
Un-seal them (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5; Eph 1:13, 4:30)
Un-wash them (Tutus 3:5)
Un-forgive them of all their sins (1 Cor 6:11)
Un-forget their sins (Heb 10:17)
Un-consider them holy (Eph 1:4)
Un-consider them blameless in His sight (Eph 1:4, 2:8; Rom 8:9,11:6)
Un-buy them (1 Cor: 6:19-20, 7:23-24)
Un-born them (1 Jn 2:29, 3:9, 4:7, 5:1,4,18)
Move out from living within them as the new Holy of Holies (1 John 2:19, 3:6,9; Rom 8:9)
Revoke their position of no longer living in His new nature (Rom 8:9)
Rescind and fail to honor His promise to never leave and forsake them (Heb 13:5)
Go back on and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37).

God, the Holy Spirit, who was given as a guarantee (2 Cor 5:5) would have to do the following:
Cut them out of His Will as co-heirs with Jesus (Rom 8:17).
Un-fill them (becoming un-Born-Again) (Col 2:9-10);
Un-anoint them (1 John 2:27)
Stop and undo His good work begun in them (Phil 1:6, 2:13)
Fail to honor His promise to keep them from stumbling until the end when Jesus comes again (1 Cor 1:8; Jude 1:24-25).

To say that an individual could be separated from the love of God or remove themselves from His firm grasp, and His promise to NEVER leave them, after He bought and paid for them, and they are His possession, as well as His dwelling place, the Holy of Holies, is at the very least, illogical and intellectually incongruous.

When God makes a promise, He NEVER reneges on, or breaks, His word.

Just saying...
Are we to believe an absolute unknown?

I don't know who he is, neither can I get on the site he's posting on.
 
Sep 14, 2017
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#31
The only thing I learned is that Deade & Depleated are in agreement with OSAS/hyper-grace by putting their "likes" on the Op.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,116
134
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#32
"which is it"
strawman
:rolleyes:

those who stop believing on His name were never born again

those who become like the reprobates were never born again

________________
Quite the dichotomy: "
those who stop believing on His name were never born again"

I thought that someone "believing on His name" was born again! Now I hear that the one who stops believing on His name "was never born again".


 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
4,871
900
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#33
Quite the dichotomy: "
those who stop believing on His name were never born again"

I thought that someone "believing on His name" was born again! Now I hear that the one who stops believing on His name "was never born again".


go back to the original post

1 john 2 19


They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


never truely believed

false believers

never truely of us

or no doubt would have continued with us
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
4,871
900
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#34
2 Timothy 3
3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.


8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.

10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
4,978
524
113
#35
Say what you like, I am sticking to what the Greek text says:

the one who keeps believing in me (Greek present tense) will never thirst

ho pisteuon eis eme ou me dipsesei popote John 6:35b
Hi Chester. I think there are many such examples in Scripture like the one you stated that we can become confused about UNTIL we realize that they are DESCRIPTIVE of the ONE who WILL continue to believe.

So I think back to that horrible time in my life that I THOUGHT I had sinned so much that I reached the point that I had lost my Salvation. Now I never stopped believing that Jesus was God, that He was crucified, and that He rose again. I just thought that MY BEHAVIOR AND SIN resulted in Him leaving me.

This is pivotal. I believe had I not been born again, had I NOT become His Child, my heart would have hardened and I would have no longer believed who He was and what He has done. I would have continued to sin worse and worse and NOT be bothered by it.

BUT, since I AM His Child, He did what was necessary to draw me back to His Arms. This was an incredibly painful time for not just me, but many in my circles. But He has since blessed me in SO MANY ways you would not believe it, because I hardly can.

So I would counsel when you come across these passages that seems to suggest that we have to do X to remain His Child, that you try and look at them as descriptive of what a TRUE Child of His WILL DO.

Blessings to You!
 
Mar 14, 2011
52,981
1,326
113
#36
Quite the dichotomy: "
those who stop believing on His name were never born again"

I thought that someone "believing on His name" was born again! Now I hear that the one who stops believing on His name "was never born again".


Actually there is a huge difference between faith and belief.

The Jews who tried to go to law. believed in Jesus, but never entrusted their lives to him That's why they went back to law (their only love and what they really had faith in)

Many people believe in Jesus even do mighty works for him, But as Jesus said, on that day, He will tall meany he never knew them.

Their faith was not in him, never was.
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
4,871
900
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#37
Actually there is a huge difference between faith and belief.

The Jews who tried to go to law. believed in Jesus, but never entrusted their lives to him That's why they went back to law (their only love and what they really had faith in)

Many people believe in Jesus even do mighty works for him, But as Jesus said, on that day, He will tall meany he never knew them.

Their faith was not in him, never was.
i will admit though

i should have said believing of Him

instead of believing on His name

my words werent perfect
 
Mar 14, 2011
52,981
1,326
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#38
I have heard people say they have known people who stop believing. Can you tell my why, or what they stopped believing? 0r why YOU think we can lose faith?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
4,978
524
113
#39
Hi Chester. I think there are many such examples in Scripture like the one you stated that we can become confused about UNTIL we realize that they are DESCRIPTIVE of the ONE who WILL continue to believe.

So I think back to that horrible time in my life that I THOUGHT I had sinned so much that I reached the point that I had lost my Salvation. Now I never stopped believing that Jesus was God, that He was crucified, and that He rose again. I just thought that MY BEHAVIOR AND SIN resulted in Him leaving me.

This is pivotal. I believe had I not been born again, had I NOT become His Child, my heart would have hardened and I would have no longer believed who He was and what He has done. I would have continued to sin worse and worse and NOT be bothered by it.

BUT, since I AM His Child, He did what was necessary to draw me back to His Arms. This was an incredibly painful time for not just me, but many in my circles. But He has since blessed me in SO MANY ways you would not believe it, because I hardly can.

So I would counsel when you come across these passages that seems to suggest that we have to do X to remain His Child, that you try and look at them as descriptive of what a TRUE Child of His WILL DO.

Blessings to You!
Just to sorta say I'm listening to you, God had this song play on Pandora as I wote this:

[video=youtube;X_2qG22SPwU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_2qG22SPwU[/video]
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
11,890
634
113
#40
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The belief that saves is the belief that changes a man in a way that only God can do and can never be undone.

The change wrought in salvation is profound and can never, will never be undone. Salvation is not a man made change it is a God made change.

While it may not be readily explained outside of those who have experienced it those who have it know it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger