How To Be Un-Saved

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Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,305
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#61
Yes let's read it properly

John 4:13-14


13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

John 6:35-40


35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

LOL! As long as the verses are not interpreted EG and I both like the post!
 
Mar 14, 2011
54,939
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#62
So if you or I go the same route as my brother-in-law and wind up as a rebellious agnostic or atheist, that is evidence that we were never truly saved?
What did John say? Did he stutter?

Or maybe neither you nor I have the moral capability to become a "rebellious agnostic or atheist"?
If a person were to deny christ, they are antichrist, and if those people ever walked with us (in church) they were NEVER OF US, for IF THEY WERE OF US, they NEVER would have departed.

End of story. Your argument is with John, Not me.

I was a prodigal son for 5 years, because I was angry at the church, and you could say at God, but I never denied him, or my need of him, or of my sinfulness, which deserved judgment, I was just angry at a situation, and thus rebelled by tuning to things I knew I should not have been doing, Was I lost? if I died in that state would I have went to hell?
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
5,068
1,204
113
#63
wait a second

do you believe born again believers can lose salvation?

i may have to ask for that invite to my birthday party back
* pssst.... you can still send a gift though*


;)
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,305
265
83
#64
Then stop judging him and start praying for him.

Mt 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

Unfruitful is not unsaved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Not quite sure, why, Roger, but your response made me laugh so hard I could hardly stop . . .

Probably because it was a very good-natured response - probably because you hit on the deeper issue beyond beliefs - do I really care enough to pray? and probably partly because I don't think you know how to answer the question of my brother-in-law
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
5,068
1,204
113
#65
Not quite sure, why, Roger, but your response made me laugh so hard I could hardly stop . . .

Probably because it was a very good-natured response - probably because you hit on the deeper issue beyond beliefs - do I really care enough to pray? and probably partly because I don't think you know how to answer the question of my brother-in-law
roger is a fine brother in Christ


(he's made me laugh till tears too)
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#66
wait a second

do you believe born again believers can lose salvation?

i may have to ask for that invite to my birthday party back
No. I know OSAS is a Arminian straw man used to dismiss T.U.L.I.P. It's a fallacy, in that what is really wanted is God chooses all after we choose him.

It's the equivalent of two men, 400 years ago, arguing this.

All cats have four legs.
Fido has four legs.
Therefore Fido is a cat.

And 400 years later, the argument was downsized to Fido is a cat without any understanding of what the original argument was about.

OSAS comes from all of TULIP, not just U.

And the biggest question OSAS doesn't bother dealing with, (because, after all, the whole purpose is to believe God saves anyone who wants heaven), S? If OSAS, then who bothers checking out if they're saved? The assumption is always, "Of course I am."
 

SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
810
502
93
#68
I think many will be seen as never being saved when the end times arrives. The falling away.
There are probably more make believe Christians in churches today than we would like to admit.
I am afraid that many have a false assurance because they have placed their hope for eternal life in the wrong place, on the wrong person.
I am truly worried for those who believe salvation can be lost, given back, or in some way is dependent on what they do or do not do in this life.
 

NoNameMcgee

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
5,068
1,204
113
#69
No. I know OSAS is a Arminian straw man used to dismiss T.U.L.I.P. It's a fallacy, in that what is really wanted is God chooses all after we choose him.

It's the equivalent of two men, 400 years ago, arguing this.

All cats have four legs.
Fido has four legs.
Therefore Fido is a cat.

And 400 years later, the argument was downsized to Fido is a cat without any understanding of what the original argument was about.

OSAS comes from all of TULIP, not just U.

And the biggest question OSAS doesn't bother dealing with, (because, after all, the whole purpose is to believe God saves anyone who wants heaven), S? If OSAS, then who bothers checking out if they're saved? The assumption is always, "Of course I am."
ohhhhh osas is its own denomination?


i thought it just pointed to the fact a saved believer was always saved

lol

i dont claim any denomination including calvinist or "osas"

but i believe 100%


1- Jesus is perfect and His sacrifice paid for ALL sin
2- if you are born again you are judged by His righteousness and not your own
3- your righteousness does not add too or take from His sacrifice
4- if you are born again you are His child and He will never for forsake you
 
Mar 14, 2011
54,939
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#70
ohhhhh osas is its own denomination?


i thought it just pointed to the fact a saved believer was always saved

lol

i dont claim any denomination including calvinist or "osas"

but i believe 100%


1- Jesus is perfect and His sacrifice paid for ALL sin
2- if you are born again you are judged by His righteousness and not your own
3- your righteousness does not add too or take from His sacrifice
4- if you are born again you are His child and He will never for forsake you
Thats the reason why (I have come to find out Since is have been to CC) when you hear people arguin against OSAS they are arguing against calvanism. Not the truth of what eternal life is. Armenian And calvanism have been gone for how long? Yet it seems they are still fighting.

Now you can add hypergrace to that list of what they are fighting.

Discussing the word does not seem to be popular today, most people just want to argue against churches (Rome/Calvin/Hepergrace/Pentecost etc) Its actually sad..

 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,725
1,230
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#71
What did John say? Did he stutter?



If a person were to deny christ, they are antichrist, and if those people ever walked with us (in church) they were NEVER OF US, for IF THEY WERE OF US, they NEVER would have departed.

End of story. Your argument is with John, Not me.

I was a prodigal son for 5 years, because I was angry at the church, and you could say at God, but I never denied him, or my need of him, or of my sinfulness, which deserved judgment, I was just angry at a situation, and thus rebelled by tuning to things I knew I should not have been doing, Was I lost? if I died in that state would I have went to hell?
I was like that for a lot longer.
Probably about 12 years.

Never lost my faith in Jesus, not ever deny him or God.

That period was the most miserable in my life.

I even got to the stage where I started praying "God kill me tonight then I will know where I'm going, either heaven or hell. I know you will provide for my wife and 4 young kids"

Doesn't sound like a man who was once saved then unsaved.

Just a hurt broken man, damaged by life and the church and people in it.
Sad thing is when I sought help the Godly? Advice was Bible says now go do.

Hmm what was that advice and it's focus?

Stop gambling, stop suffering from severe anxiety, stop thinking about commiting suicide. Yes I planned many times to commit suicide, but make it look like an accident. I started to go work early on the motorway, when no other traffic would be on the road. Then when going over a bridge yank the wheel and that's it finished.

Shame they never sought to get behind the cause of the effect.

Sad thing is when I stopped going to church not one of them every sought me out.

Let us never write anyone off.
If one goes MIA go after them.
Seek the 1 lost sheep.
Never give up.
 
Mar 14, 2011
54,939
2,816
113
#72
I was like that for a lot longer.
Probably about 12 years.

Never lost my faith in Jesus, not ever deny him or God.

That period was the most miserable in my life.

I even got to the stage where I started praying "God kill me tonight then I will know where I'm going, either heaven or hell. I know you will provide for my wife and 4 young kids"

Doesn't sound like a man who was once saved then unsaved.

Just a hurt broken man, damaged by life and the church and people in it.
Sad thing is when I sought help the Godly? Advice was Bible says now go do.

Hmm what was that advice and it's focus?

Stop gambling, stop suffering from severe anxiety, stop thinking about commiting suicide. Yes I planned many times to commit suicide, but make it look like an accident. I started to go work early on the motorway, when no other traffic would be on the road. Then when going over a bridge yank the wheel and that's it finished.

Shame they never sought to get behind the cause of the effect.

Sad thing is when I stopped going to church not one of them every sought me out.

Let us never write anyone off.
If one goes MIA go after them.
Seek the 1 lost sheep.
Never give up.
I was ready to take my life. I would drive by a bridge and think, if I hit that at 100 + Mph,. Will it hurt. Or take pills.. What prevented that was my kids would have found me.

It was at that time, my lowest. Someone called me. And that person was a man I led to Christ as a teenage, my best friend in High school. Just what I needed to get me back. I know that was from God. If he called me earlier I probably would not have listened. God waited until I was ready. God is so amazing.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
2,941
260
83
#73
So you quoted someone you didn't know from Adam and we're just gonna believe it?

OK. That means I can do that too.

Don't cry that you don't know the people I post.:)

Seriously?

I posted the article because I happen to agree with the content - nothing more, nothing less. The guy could be a tree hugging liberal for all I know.

If Hillary Clinton one day said, "Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and the only way to salvation!" I'd say "Amen!" and post it far and wide.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,725
1,230
113
#74
No. I know OSAS is a Arminian straw man used to dismiss T.U.L.I.P. It's a fallacy, in that what is really wanted is God chooses all after we choose him.

It's the equivalent of two men, 400 years ago, arguing this.

All cats have four legs.
Fido has four legs.
Therefore Fido is a cat.

And 400 years later, the argument was downsized to Fido is a cat without any understanding of what the original argument was about.

OSAS comes from all of TULIP, not just U.

And the biggest question OSAS doesn't bother dealing with, (because, after all, the whole purpose is to believe God saves anyone who wants heaven), S? If OSAS, then who bothers checking out if they're saved? The assumption is always, "Of course I am."
Is not T.U.L.I.P

God chose us before we chose him therefore OSAS.
Therefore argument is no point checking it out.

Then the Arminan is always checking it out and fears they will fall foul of T.U.L.I.P

400 years later does Fido still have legs?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,725
1,230
113
#75
I was ready to take my life. I would drive by a bridge and think, if I hit that at 100 + Mph,. Will it hurt. Or take pills.. What prevented that was my kids would have found me.

It was at that time, my lowest. Someone called me. And that person was a man I led to Christ as a teenage, my best friend in High school. Just what I needed to get me back. I know that was from God. If he called me earlier I probably would not have listened. God waited until I was ready. God is so amazing.
I wasn't able to see the wood from the trees either.
Then a gentle loving man of God who do did not me sought me out (new leader of the church who asked one day my wife who worked in the church, tell me a bit about Bill)


Thank you Jesus that you understand us, and thank you that your time is perfect and bring others alongside us.
Then you use us to do the same.

May we always be willing to help others like you have used others to help us.
May we be sensitive to the Holy Spirit working in us.
 
Mar 14, 2011
54,939
2,816
113
#76
I wasn't able to see the wood from the trees either.
Then a gentle loving man of God who do did not me sought me out (new leader of the church who asked one day my wife who worked in the church, tell me a bit about Bill)


Thank you Jesus that you understand us, and thank you that your time is perfect and bring others alongside us.
Then you use us to do the same.

May we always be willing to help others like you have used others to help us.
May we be sensitive to the Holy Spirit working in us.

A big fat AMEN to that Brother.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,725
1,230
113
#77
I was ready to take my life. I would drive by a bridge and think, if I hit that at 100 + Mph,. Will it hurt. Or take pills.. What prevented that was my kids would have found me.

It was at that time, my lowest. Someone called me. And that person was a man I led to Christ as a teenage, my best friend in High school. Just what I needed to get me back. I know that was from God. If he called me earlier I probably would not have listened. God waited until I was ready. God is so amazing.
Bought tears to my eyes.

Tears of sadness for what you went through and then tears of joy for where you are now.

Let us all remember where we were and where we are at.
Then let us use it to help others in the body of Jesus, but also those who are not.

Thanks EG for sharing.
 
Mar 14, 2011
54,939
2,816
113
#78
Bought tears to my eyes.

Tears of sadness for what you went through and then tears of joy for where you are now.

Let us all remember where we were and where we are at.
Then let us use it to help others in the body of Jesus, but also those who are not.

Thanks EG for sharing.

As scripture says, lets all remember our first love, Sometimes we forget. And need a reminder. Sadly for some of us, it takes hitting rock bottom or god telling us to wake up to remember. Wonderful thing is, God always keeps his word. I may have left him, but he never left me.
 

MichaelOwen

Senior Member
Nov 6, 2017
903
229
43
#79
We are definitely living in the end times, we have been since Jesus ascended into Heaven, but I believe the time is nigh where we really need to guard our hearts and look for His return. I firmly believe that when a person comes to accept Jesus Christ in their heart as their personal Lord and Savior, they are saved til the last day when Christ raises us up, (He promised that). It comes down to this. 1.) A person is saved through the shed blood of Christ Jesus and accepts Him and believes in Him, or 2.) That person was never really saved to begin with, but possibly caught up in the emotion. That I believe. It's between you and the Lord the determination of your salvation, but don't be fooled, you cannot lose your salvation, because it is a free gift we either choose to accept or reject. And once we accept, we're sealed til the day of redemption. God's word is very clear and plain on this.
 
Mar 14, 2011
54,939
2,816
113
#80
Bought tears to my eyes.

Tears of sadness for what you went through and then tears of joy for where you are now.

Let us all remember where we were and where we are at.
Then let us use it to help others in the body of Jesus, but also those who are not.

Thanks EG for sharing.

By the way, It was legalism which took me down. All the CRAP i heard growing up. And how if we do not live up to some standard, we must not be saved. Or if you just trusted God, these bad things would not be happening to you (my wife kicked me out and moved her BF in) and all these things, it was all my fault because I did not have enough faith or maybe I was not saved. OrI had some sin in my life which was causing this

You also now understand my friend my passion and fight against legalism you have witnessed in CC since you have been here, that is what fuels me, I want to make sure no one else suffers what I did.