How To Be Un-Saved

[Speak2Me]

Really? Maybe so?

But if so, then perhaps "listening to you (EG) talk since you have been here, there is a lot of Pride. For OSAS to be wrong your pride would have to be broken. A reasonable study of Scripture shows that God's children, His lambs . . . are secure in Him" while they are believing in Him, . . .

I am not trying to accuse you, EG. What I am trying to do is to point out that you (in this post) may be turning to assumption and accusation rather than simply using Scripture as the basis for your arguments.

If you accuse someone of being proud, selfish, and not reasonable studying Scripture, then they are likely to turn around and use the same arguments against you. And then no one will profit.

In actuality, using presumption rather that Scripture only makes your own position seem weaker!

Doesn't it just get you after posting scripture, they accuse you of being proud & selfish for being.......get this.......... accurate?

Then they post their wares all day long with one stripped verse.

 

[Speak2Me]

They must think they are more powerful than God. Able to rip themselves out of his hands.

"Others" must think that God is stupid that Hewould want to hold onto an ornery rebel who walked away from Him & place him heaven against his will with those who had to be faithful & an overcomer to get there.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

"Others" must think that God is stupid that Hewould want to hold onto an ornery rebel who walked away from Him & place him heaven against his will with those who had to be faithful & an overcomer to get there.

Do you know what it means to be born again?

How many of your sins does the sacrifice of Jesus cover?

what makes you think a genuine faith in Jesus
followed by the evidence of having a new heart and spirit placed in you ever turns into unbelief?


there is not one verse that suggests this

but you keep plowing away with your man made assumptions
and false gospel pushing...

 

[ljs]

"Others" must think that God is stupid that Hewould want to hold onto an ornery rebel who walked away from Him & place him heaven against his will with those who had to be faithful & an overcomer to get there.

And here we have it in a nutshell
This is what people against eternal security say all the time , because they simply cant accept that they may be doing all these wonderful things , and my goodness , look at that other person , they have walked away , they arent doing enough good works , how could GOD POSSIBLY have them enter Heaven , when I have been so faithful & obedient

Some Just dont get that its 2 different things , salvation = free gift , obedience = rewards
I believe alot of this comes from not rightly dividing Gods word
so sad

 

[Ralph-]

I'm trying not to be arrogant, I'm just going by what the Holy Spirit speaks to me when I read the Word. I just don't see or find anywhere where someone can lose their salvation.

"whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

7“Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell."-Matthew 18:6-9


It is better for a little one who believes in Jesus to cast off the person who causes them to stumble than for them to stumble and go to the eternal fire.

Why is Jesus saying this if it is true that believers in Jesus can not stumble in unbelief and go to the eternal fire?

 

[Ralph-]

Some Just dont get that its 2 different things , salvation = free gift , obedience = rewards
I believe alot of this comes from not rightly dividing Gods word
so sad

John explains to us that obedience is the sign of being saved, while not being obedient is the sign of being unsaved. Obedience has everything to do with if you are saved or not. It's not just about rewards.


"make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8the one who practices sin is of the devil"-1 John 3:7-8


We have a whole church that has been deceived. They think works mean nothing in regard to salvation, only in regard to rewards. That's not what John says. The person with no changed life is showing he does not have the righteousness of Christ in salvation. He is showing he still belongs to the devil.

 

[Grandpa]

What you wrote is absurd. It's a metaphor! It can't "very simply state what they state". Jesus is not simply speaking of real sheep, we have to establish who the sheep represent. Are the sheep anyone who just "hears" His voice? Is it anyone who hears and obeys to the end? Is it anyone who hears and obeys at some point in their life? This can be applied to all 6 points.

John 10:26 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

But The Lord Jesus Christ does simply state what He states.

Those are biblical FACTS spoken by the Lord.

The Lord Jesus has sheep and those sheep hear His Voice and follow Him. Fact.​

What you label as "Fact" is your assumption.

SO at the very least, if you are honest, you would say that these are at best simply assumptions. If we can be assured of salvation simply because of a sincere moment of faith at some time in our past, then the concept of apostasy does not exist.

John 10:27 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Fact. The Lord Jesus Christ gives His sheep Eternal Life.

That's a fact. The Lord Jesus Christ has said so.​

Is this what you believe? Do you believe apostasy is impossible?

It is impossible for the Lord Jesus' sheep who hear his voice and follow Him and have been given Eternal Life to lose that Eternal Life.

My own hate? I would love not hate for OSAS to be true. Why would someone not want OSAS to be true? My own father turned away from the faith of Jesus Christ. I would love to be wrong on this issue! But a reasonable and honest study of this subject proves otherwise.

A reasonable and honest study?

You can't even admit that what the Lord Jesus Christ says in His Word is fact.

How is that reasonable and honest?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

"whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

7“Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell."-Matthew 18:6-9


It is better for a little one who believes in Jesus to cast off the person who causes them to stumble than for them to stumble and go to the eternal fire.

Why is Jesus saying this if it is true that believers in Jesus can not stumble in unbelief and go to the eternal fire?

Context

Matthew 18
At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

_______________


10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

___________


please pay attention to His will on those who are born again

___________

then to BROTHERS who may cause one of these young ones to stumble (as opposed to the type of man mentioned in your posted verses)

_______________


15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

 

[Ralph-]

John 3:16 - So simple it's got to be complexedizied (new word) instead of believed

Notice in John 3:16 'believes' is in the present tense.

The promises apply to those who presently believe. That's the condition. Keep satisfying the condition for eternal life (present believing) and you're good. The promises belong to those who continue to believe. Not to those who fall away into unbelief.

Now let's not 'complexedize' the simplicity of this truth and start adding or taking away from Jesus' plain words. He said whosoever 'believes' has eternal life. You have to be presently believing in order to have eternal life. That's the condition. Plain and simple.

Are you going to just believe it, or are you going to write us some long paragraphs to 'complexedize' and ruin and complicate this simple truth?

 

[Speak2Me]

Do you know what it means to be born again?

Yep

How many of your sins does the sacrifice of Jesus cover?

Every one I repent of & forsake

what makes you think a genuine faith in Jesus
followed by the evidence of having a new heart and spirit placed in you ever turns into unbelief?

The Bible says so.

1 Timothy 1:18This charge I entrust to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, 19holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith, 20among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Matt. 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.—38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

2 Tim 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.13 Then SIMON HIMSELF BELIEVED ALSO: and when he was BAPTIZED, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John 20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

2 Tim 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and OVERTHROW THE FAITH OF SOME.19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

1 Tim 5:11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have BEGUN TO WAX WANTON AGAINST CHRIST, they will marry;12 Having damnation, because THEY HAVE CAST OFF THEIR FIRST FAITH.13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.15 For some are already TURNED ASIDE AFTER SATAN

1 Tim. 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, THEY HAVE ERRED FROM THE FAITH, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

1 Cor. 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;11 And through thy knowledge SHALL THE WEAK BROTHER PERISH, for whom Christ died?12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

1 Tim 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;—6 Not a novice, LEST being lifted up with pride HE FALL INTO THE CONDEMNATION OF THE DEVIL.7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; LEST HE FALL INTO REPROACH AND THE SNARE OF THE DEVIL.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon REMOVED from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Hebr. 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,6 [If ]they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (The word IF is not in the original text.).

Hebr 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Matt. 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

there is not one verse that suggests this

So he says, LOL!

but you keep plowing away with your man made assumptions
and false gospel pushing...

Yeah, right. The above is man-made assumptions

 

[Katy-follower]

Hi all , just popping in from under my duvet , its snowing heavily here in England...

1. God our Father draws us to Him
2, He calls us to His Son.
3.We are sealed by His Holy Spirit...

By His grace alone , we have been saved , now we start walking in our faith , our faith is a gift from God ...There are some who have a superficial belief , they are full of their own joy , they run on their emotions , these are the ones who do not have saving faith...

We are children of God , we have been called , we have heard , we follow our LORD and Savior because we know His voice...Why does man have to make what our Lord Jesus Christ has done for us so difficult to understand , because man trusts in himself in his own understanding instead of trusting in our LORD...

What part of God being the starter and finisher of our faith do people not understand...I can understand those who sit on the fence having these unsure feelings , they feel this way because they have not given their life to Christ , but when we become children of God , that is who we are...We are not superficial , we are officially born again , sealed , saved , and nothing can snatch us out of the Hand of God...xox...

Enjoyed your post! Please stay warm

 

[Speak2Me]

John explains to us that obedience is the sign of being saved, while not being obedient is the sign of being unsaved. Obedience has everything to do with if you are saved or not. It's not just about rewards.


"make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8the one who practices sin is of the devil"-1 John 3:7-8


We have a whole church that has been deceived. They think works mean nothing in regard to salvation, only in regard to rewards. That's not what John says. The person with no changed life is showing he does not have the righteousness of Christ in salvation. He is showing he still belongs to the devil.

Most of these scriptures say "he", or "the one" or "those" or "anyone", because it makes no difference between saint & sinner.

It's "all".

BTW, good posts.

 

[Grandpa]

No one.

It can not be taken away from you. What may happen if you are of soil type #2 or 3 is you may stop fulfilling the condition of believing that secures it for you.

​

​

Where does the Lord say that?

I know that you are conditioned to only be able to understand 'eternal' that way. You can only see you having possession of Christ's life being eternal, rather than the life of Christ itself being eternal. See the difference?

Yes, I see your error.

You won't possess Christ's eternal life forever without chance of forfeiting it through unbelief until you leave the body and enter into the kingdom.

Look at it like this.
If I gave you a set of batteries that can never run out that doesn't mean you'll always have those batteries. It means the batteries themselves will never run out. That's what it means to possess eternal life in this life. What is in question is whether or not you're going to still have the life that never runs out when Jesus comes back.

That's not what the Lord says.

The Lord says He gives His Sheep Eternal Life and they will Never perish.

He doesn't say that Eternal Life will never perish. Which would be kind of redundant, imo

No, because his life that he gives his sheep is eternal. The question is are you going to continue to possess the life that is eternal by continuing to believe? Maybe you will, maybe you won't. Become the kind of soil that will continue to believe and as a result will continue to possess the life that is eternal, not temporary.

The question is Do you believe the Lord Jesus Christ and what He says?

John 10:27

And I give unto them eternal life; and ​

they shall never perish​

, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Those who are given Eternal Life never perish. I guess you missed that important part.

The Lord doesn't say 'based on your performance' or 'your faith in me' or 'maybe you won't make it'.

The Lord says definitively I give them Eternal Life and they shall never perish.​

No one is going to take it from you.

What can happen is if you're not strong in faith you can forfeit it through a return to unbelief, like the 2nd type of soil. So don't have a 2nd type of soil heart. Grow up in your faith and have a 4th type of soil heart, a good and noble heart, that retains the word, produces fruit, and endures to the very end.

If Salvation were up to us this certainly could be a possibility.

But Salvation isn't up to us.

We don't cause our heart to be good.

The Lord Jesus Christ gives us a New Heart and that heart is the good ground that you are searching for.

 

[Ralph-]

Context

Matthew 18
At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

_______________


10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

___________


please pay attention to His will on those who are born again

___________

then to BROTHERS who may cause one of these young ones to stumble (as opposed to the type of man mentioned in your posted verses)

_______________


15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

So Jesus didn't really mean for us to cast off those who cause little ones who believe in him to stumble and go to the eternal fire. It's an empty meaningless warning. Got it.

 

[Deade]

Notice in John 3:16 'believes' is in the present tense.

The promises apply to those who presently believe. That's the condition. Keep satisfying the condition for eternal life (present believing) and you're good. The promises belong to those who continue to believe. Not to those who fall away into unbelief.

Now let's not 'complexedize' the simplicity of this truth and start adding or taking away from Jesus' plain words. He said whosoever 'believes' has eternal life. You have to be presently believing in order to have eternal life. That's the condition. Plain and simple.

Are you going to just believe it, or are you going to write us some long paragraphs to 'complexedize' and ruin and complicate this simple truth?

Ralph-, where does faith come from. Romans 12:3: "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." True faith, is God's work. What God has established man can't undo.

Many of your posts simply point out that the most common of unbelief results from those that were never saved. I agree, many are they that claim Christ have never received the Holy Spirit.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Yep

doesn't appear that you do

Every one I repent of & forsake

so unless you forsake and repent of every single sin you have ever commited against Him

then you believe you will go to hell?

The Bible says so.

no it doesnt

1 Timothy 1:18This charge I entrust to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you, that by them you may wage the good warfare,

not related to a born again believer losing salvation
lol

19holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith,

not related again
but 1 timothy i will cover after i look through the rest of your out of context mismatched posted verses

20among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

you think these two were born again?

Matt. 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.—38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

John 6:29

“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”

the cross represents His sacrifice
you deny His sacrifice when you point to works salvation

2 Tim 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

again not at all related to born again believers losing salvation

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever

again
John 6:29

“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”

if you think one He places a new heart in loves the world

youre sorely mistaken

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

do you know who is being admonished here?

again not related to born again believers losing salvation

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.13 Then SIMON HIMSELF BELIEVED ALSO: and when he was BAPTIZED, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John 20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

do you even understand whats being said?
this has to do with bondange to sin he is praying to be delivered from

not the loss of salvation

2 Tim 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and OVERTHROW THE FAITH OF SOME.19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

nothing to do with the loss of salvation.... again

talking about those in error leading others who are not yet born again astray

THE LORD KNOWITH THEM THAT ARE HIS

and in the name of CHRIST depart from iniquity

1 Tim 5:11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have BEGUN TO WAX WANTON AGAINST CHRIST, they will marry;12 Having damnation, because THEY HAVE CAST OFF THEIR FIRST FAITH.13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.15 For some are already TURNED ASIDE AFTER SATAN

ok?
ya
they didnt have a saving faith....
out of context verse

their love for the world shows He had not placed His spirit in them....


are you joking or being serious here?

1 Tim. 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, THEY HAVE ERRED FROM THE FAITH, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

do you understand why these letters were written?
converted in a sense of saying "oh ya im a Christian"
faith in the sense
KNOWLEDGE that Christ is God

and notice
its not saying

they sinned and lost salvation

its saying they didnt have a lasting faith


im at work

i saw you took hebrews 10 out of context again

you still dont understand that whole chapter at all...


*sigh*

ill shine light on the rest of this darkness when i get home

you have shown your lack of ability to rightly divide so many times in one post

 

[Speak2Me]

1 Timothy 1:18This charge I entrust to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, 19holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith, 20among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Matt. 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.—38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
2 Tim 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.13 Then SIMON HIMSELF BELIEVED ALSO: and when he was BAPTIZED, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John 20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

2 Tim 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and OVERTHROW THE FAITH OF SOME.19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

1 Tim 5:11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have BEGUN TO WAX WANTON AGAINST CHRIST, they will marry;12 Having damnation, because THEY HAVE CAST OFF THEIR FIRST FAITH.13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.15 For some are already TURNED ASIDE AFTER SATAN

1 Tim. 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, THEY HAVE ERRED FROM THE FAITH, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

1 Cor. 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;11 And through thy knowledge SHALL THE WEAK BROTHER PERISH, for whom Christ died?12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

1 Tim 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;—6 Not a novice, LEST being lifted up with pride HE FALL INTO THE CONDEMNATION OF THE DEVIL.7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; LEST HE FALL INTO REPROACH AND THE SNARE OF THE DEVIL.
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon REMOVED from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Hebr. 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,6 [If ]they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (The word IF is not in the original text.).

Hebr 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Matt. 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Again they can not see this, They think just because a person says he believes in god. And does some works (like baptism) and maybe gives up a sin or two their faith was real. And they were actually saved.

They can’t fathom what true saving faiht looks like, or what true repentance really looks like for that matter.

Interesting sentiments, because I would say exactly the same thing.
It is the Free Grace group he say faith and being saved is so easy and simple.

 

[MichaelOwen]

Notice in John 3:16 'believes' is in the present tense.

The promises apply to those who presently believe. That's the condition. Keep satisfying the condition for eternal life (present believing) and you're good. The promises belong to those who continue to believe. Not to those who fall away into unbelief.

Now let's not 'complexedize' the simplicity of this truth and start adding or taking away from Jesus' plain words. He said whosoever 'believes' has eternal life. You have to be presently believing in order to have eternal life. That's the condition. Plain and simple.

Are you going to just believe it, or are you going to write us some long paragraphs to 'complexedize' and ruin and complicate this simple truth?

But we know that Christ is the author and finisher of our faith. The only reason a person loses believe in Jesus is because they never truly accepted Him in their heart, otherwise, they wouldn't lose belief in the one who saved their soul from eternal damnation and separation from God, and their faith would be sealed with the promise of our Lord's return. You can have the "Knowledge" of Christ's teachings and His words and speak the right things but if you're not saved, it's pointless, and the only way to get saved is to believe in Jesus in your heart.

 

[dcontroversal]

I do not believe this, Because you would have to remove self from ther equation. And listening to you talk since you have been here, there is a lot of Pride.

For OSAS to be right, your pride would have to be broken.

A reasonable honest study of scriptures shows that Gods children, His lambs, His chosen ones, His adopted ones. His atoned ones. His beloved ones. His Justified ones. The ones he has perfected forever. And is in the process of sanctifying, His elect (whatever it is y90ou want to call them) are secure in him. Period.

Amen a cursory study of the Greek word translated "in" as applied to Christ speaks volumes......not to mention all of the promises and power of Christ/God and the words kept , eternal, everlasting, sealed, never leave, never forsake, nothing can separate from, will finish, lose nothing, he abideth faithful etc........used in context!