How To Be Un-Saved

[NoNameMcgee]

Is unsaved really just mean unbelieving?

being unsaved in the context of the OP means to have LOST salvation

and "unbelieving" would mean you were never saved to begin with....


when you are born again you recieve a new heart and spirit.... you cannot undo what God has done in you

Is unbelief, not being saved?

well in a way... ya

if you dont believe how can you be saved?

if you had a faith that you turned from... it was not a true faith

1 john 2
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Is having belief, then maybe not talking to God, or the Lord Jesus Christ for a little while, or reading your bible does God reject your belief?

God knows your heart
He doesnt look to your works to see if your faith is genuine.... He KNOWS

1 Samuel 16:7
“But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.”

 

[LightLoveHope]

Have a read again.

I see Depleted is saying the strength is in the soil.
The nutrient is in the soil.
A plant's root will always dig down to its root.

Hi Bill,

Unfortunately the parable does not work if you start talking about nutrients.
The soil is us, and the apostles say we perfect Gods work in our lives, so the nutrients
are coming from us, not from God. If one wants to get biological it is fungi that give plants
their nutrients and phosphates etc. because the plants cannot make it themselves.
Most of the plant actually comes from the air, turning carbon dioxide into stems and branches.
Water comes up through the roots, and oxygen is produced through the leaves.

But the whole point of the parable is how Gods word finds its foundation into peoples hearts.
If believers cannot see Christ words, then Jesus's observation becomes true,

This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'
Matt 13:13-15

 

[Ralph-]

WHat??

Who's going to take it away?

No one.

It can not be taken away from you. What may happen if you are of soil type #2 or 3 is you may stop fulfilling the condition of believing that secures it for you.

IF it can be lost then it is not Eternal. It is temporary.

I know that you are conditioned to only be able to understand 'eternal' that way. You can only see you having possession of Christ's life being eternal, rather than the life of Christ itself being eternal. See the difference?

You won't possess Christ's eternal life forever without chance of forfeiting it through unbelief until you leave the body and enter into the kingdom.

Look at it like this.
If I gave you a set of batteries that can never run out that doesn't mean you'll always have those batteries. It means the batteries themselves will never run out. That's what it means to possess eternal life in this life. What is in question is whether or not you're going to still have the life that never runs out when Jesus comes back.

Any verses on the Lord Jesus giving His Sheep Temporary Life??

No, because his life that he gives his sheep is eternal. The question is are you going to continue to possess the life that is eternal by continuing to believe? Maybe you will, maybe you won't. Become the kind of soil that will continue to believe and as a result will continue to possess the life that is eternal, not temporary.

Who is going to take it from me???

No one is going to take it from you.

What can happen is if you're not strong in faith you can forfeit it through a return to unbelief, like the 2nd type of soil. So don't have a 2nd type of soil heart. Grow up in your faith and have a 4th type of soil heart, a good and noble heart, that retains the word, produces fruit, and endures to the very end.

 

[Ralph-]

What you have done here is take eternal life out of the hand of the one who gave it and placed it in your own hands.
That is not faith in Jesus, but faith in self. You will deny it, but that is a works based salvation that is contrary to Scripture.

You are certainly free to believe that God does your believing for you and so removes any hint of self righteous effort out of your salvation. But it isn't necessary to believe that God does our believing for us to avoid having a works gospel since believing is not one of the works that constitutes self righteous work. Believing is never a work of self righteousness in the Bible. It is completely and utterly opposed to works of self righteousness.

"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness"-Romans 4:6

See it? 'Believing' is not a part of the work of self righteousness. It is distinct and separate from it. So there's no reason to strip us of our responsibility to believe as if believing was somehow a work of self righteousness if we have to do it.

 

[Ralph-]

Is unsaved really just mean unbelieving?

Yes.

Is unbelief, not being saved?

Yes.

Is having belief, then maybe not talking to God, or the Lord Jesus Christ for a little while, or reading your bible does God reject your belief?

No.


There is a big difference between sinning because you are weak in faith and still growing up in the ways of God all the while trusting in Christ for salvation, and sinning because you do not believe in or care about the forgiveness of God anymore. The one who does not believe in or care about salvation anymore is the one who is in danger of forfeiting the eternal life he has.

 

[DJ2]

Hahahaha. Insert my assumptions? It seems you are the one trying to do that.

The verses very simply state what they state. You are the one that wants to try and place some sort of doubt upon them because of your own philosophy and your own hate.

1. The sheep are the ones that hear the Lords Voice.
2. The message is that once someone is saved they are Eternally Saved.
3. A person follows the Lord Jesus when they hear His Voice. Its just a fact.
4. It is Salvation. It happens when a person comes to Christ and is Saved.
5. Yes. They are men. No man is able to pluck them out of the Lords Hand.
6. I could continue to describe rainbows to blind men but is it really going to do any good???


Why can't you read the verses for what they actually say instead of trying to put your assumptions into them?

There is a such thing as the Lords Sheep. Fact.
Those sheep receive ETERNAL LIFE. Fact.
NO man can take them away from the Lord. Fact.
The Father is Greater than all and no one can take them from Him. Fact.

SO at the very least, if you are to be honest, you would say that the bible in fact states and upholds OSAS.

The question in your mind is WHO has received this. That's a fine question. But OSAS is what the Lord Jesus Christ has stated in His Word. You are trying to say that He Lies by your silly philosophy and He does not lie.

The verses very simply state what they state

What you wrote is absurd. It's a metaphor! It can't "very simply state what they state". Jesus is not simply speaking of real sheep, we have to establish who the sheep represent. Are the sheep anyone who just "hears" His voice? Is it anyone who hears and obeys to the end? Is it anyone who hears and obeys at some point in their life? This can be applied to all 6 points.

There is a such thing as the Lords Sheep. Fact.
Those sheep receive ETERNAL LIFE. Fact.
NO man can take them away from the Lord. Fact.
The Father is Greater than all and no one can take them from Him. Fact.

What you label as "Fact" is your assumption.

SO at the very least, if you are honest, you would say that these are at best simply assumptions. If we can be assured of salvation simply because of a sincere moment of faith at some time in our past, then the concept of apostasy does not exist.

Is this what you believe? Do you believe apostasy is impossible?

You are the one that wants to try and place some sort of doubt upon them because of your own philosophy and your own hate.

My own hate? I would love not hate for OSAS to be true. Why would someone not want OSAS to be true? My own father turned away from the faith of Jesus Christ. I would love to be wrong on this issue! But a reasonable and honest study of this subject proves otherwise.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus is not simply speaking of real sheep, we have to establish who the sheep represent. Are the sheep anyone who just "hears" His voice?

In practical terms the sheep are those which legally belong to the shepherd. They are his property. God uses the metaphor of sheep to identify the children of God -- those who have experienced the New Birth. Believers are Christ's property, since Scripture says "Ye are not your own, ye have been bought with a price". And because they have received the gift of the Holy Spirit, they have also received the irrevocable gift of eternal life. So how do the sheep hear the Divine Shepherd's voice? It is the indwelling Holy Spirit who enables the sheep to hear the voice of God and of Christ. This is not rocket science.

 

[dcontroversal]

No what she did was take a verse out of context. Of course, You can not believe this, because it would throw your legalism under the table and you would have to admit error.

Sadly the warning is for people like you. People who think they have begun in the spirit, but now perfect your salvation in the flesh (works) paul has a term for people like you.

Amen......fools and bewitched......

 

[Depleted]

Am still looking for a straight forward Yes, no answers. Honest and truthfully.

If anyone is willing to help me figure this out.

@Depleted if you see this, thanks for your response.

Not everyone is exactly same, does everything, prays every day the same, reads the bible every day Some people may just believe, and live life as it goes forward.

Has anyone in this thread, ever just had times where you rebelled, or you didnt want anything to do with God (you may have gotten angry at God for a while, but then changed around again )? Or you lacked faith?

Ever?

Ha! That was part of my answer. Yes! I have tried walking out into the ocean again. I am bullheaded, so I've swim miles away from my Savior. I've walked from for four hours to four years. Matter of fact, I must have some thing with the number four, because I've walked away from God four times, too. Lacking faith, caused the short-time walks. I walked away for three years because I hated him for what he did to us. (I became disabled in pain. Not a happy camper over that, but I clung to him as much as I was able. And, at least, hubby could work, so we weren't too bad off. Then 2-3 years later, hubby became disabled. Sicker than a dog, and then after chemo-therapy, we assumed he'd feel better and go back to work. Nope. Chemotherapy made him disabled. Without it, he would be dead, but really not a happy camper when he became disabled over it. And, by the time we figured that one out, middle-class had left our lives for over a year. God dared make a sweet, good, godly man disabled. THAT was my anger. That was my hate. How dare God?)

So, yeah, big experiences walking away from God, and yet, each and every time one simple fact brought me back -- God is. Since God is, what chose is there but to listen to the Sovereign One?

And, since the Soveriegn One was the one who decreed hubby would become that sick, and the cure would cause him to become disabled, what other choice was there then to stop being so cocky about him and find out what he wants from me?

"Irresistible Grace." God's domain too.

So, since I can't walk away, and he proved himself to be someone worth following, why would I want to stay away with him?

I can think of 10,001 reasons not to read the Bible. I'm sure you have your own long list why you don't too. And yet, despite being disabled, despite hubby being disabled, despite being permanently poor, he's simply irresistible to me. (He did that too.)

I'm guessing your feeling mealy-mouth about God. No particularly good reason to read the Bible or pray or be close to him. And yet, all I can say is even though my life outwardly looks like I got the raw end of this deal, he is still God, and still my best supporter. (And remember, I did say hubby is a sweet kind man, so he is a huge supporter too.) How's this for a reason? God is worth it, so find out why.

Dig your roots in deep. The soil, the nutrition, and the Living Water we need is deep. Dig in. There is no life without him.

 

[Depleted]

Hi Lynn,

You are questioning what scripture means by the heart.
The heart is used over 100 times in the new testament alone and is an important concept.
Here is the definition for a greek Lexicon

STRONGS NT 2588: καρδία

καρδία, καρδίας, ἡ, poetic κραδία and καρδιη (in the latter form almost always in Homer (only at the beginning of a line in three places; everywhere else by metathesis κραδιη; Ebeling, Lex. Homer, under the word)) (from a root signifying to quiver or palpitate; cf. Cartius § 39; Vanicek, p. 1097 (Etym. Magn. 491, 56 παράτόκραδαίνω, τόσείω. ἀεικινητοςγάρἡκαρδία); allied with Latincor; English heart); the Sept. for לֵב and לֵבָב;
the heart;

1. properly, that organ in the animal body which is the center of the circulation of the blood, and hence, was regarded as the seat of physical life: 2 Samuel 18:14; 2 Kings 9:24; Tobit 6:5 (4), 7f (6f), 17 (16). Hence,

2. universally, καρδία denotes the seat and center of all physical and spiritual life; and
a. the vigor and sense of physical life (Psalm 101:5 (); στήρισον τήν καρδίαν σου ψωμῷ ἄρτου, Judges 19:5; to which add Psalm 103:15 ()): τρέφειν τάς καρδίας, James 5:5; ἐμπιπλῶν τάς καρδίας τροφῆς, Acts 14:17; βάρειν τῆς καρδίας κραιπάλῃ καί μέθη, Luke 21:34; (but see b. δ. below);
b. the center and seat of spiritual life, "the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavors" (so in English heart, inner man, etc.); α. universally: Matthew 5:8; Matthew 6:21; Mark 7:19; Luke 1:51; Luke 2:51; Luke 8:12, 15; Acts 5:3; Romans 10:9; 1 Corinthians 14:25; 2 Corinthians 6:11; Ephesians 6:5; Colossians 3:22; 1 Peter 3:4, etc.; plural: Matthew 9:4; Mark 2:6, 8; Mark 4:16

It takes me by surprise that you even tried to question what the heart is because this is
such a foundational idea.

That's okay. You surprise me too. You are so full of what you think, you cannot think beyond it. And then you are so sure you are right, absolutely no one else can be, including what is written in the Bible.

Foundational idea -- the Bible is a book about God, not about Man's heart.

If this is the question,
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?

you think you are the answer.

An adage of mine:

When your point is to prove you know all and those who disagree know nothing, you've proven you have nothing worth learning.

 

[Depleted]

No one.

It can not be taken away from you. What may happen if you are of soil type #2 or 3 is you may stop fulfilling the condition of believing that secures it for you.




I know that you are conditioned to only be able to understand 'eternal' that way. You can only see you having possession of Christ's life being eternal, rather than the life of Christ itself being eternal. See the difference?

You won't possess Christ's eternal life forever without chance of forfeiting it through unbelief until you leave the body and enter into the kingdom.

Look at it like this.
If I gave you a set of batteries that can never run out that doesn't mean you'll always have those batteries. It means the batteries themselves will never run out. That's what it means to possess eternal life in this life. What is in question is whether or not you're going to still have the life that never runs out when Jesus comes back.




No, because his life that he gives his sheep is eternal. The question is are you going to continue to possess the life that is eternal by continuing to believe? Maybe you will, maybe you won't. Become the kind of soil that will continue to believe and as a result will continue to possess the life that is eternal, not temporary.




No one is going to take it from you.

What can happen is if you're not strong in faith you can forfeit it through a return to unbelief, like the 2nd type of soil. So don't have a 2nd type of soil heart. Grow up in your faith and have a 4th type of soil heart, a good and noble heart, that retains the word, produces fruit, and endures to the very end.

Time out from your arguing for a moment.

Do you think it is a good thing that DJ2 is liking with all your posts?

 

[mailmandan]

Nowhere does it say "faithful enough".

You made that up.

Yet isn't that the implication by works-salvationists who cite Revelation 2:10 and teach there are Christians who maintain their salvation by being faithful unto death and there are Christians who lose their salvation by failing to be faithful unto death? If you left a church that teaches salvation by works and a member of that particular church implies to you that you have not remained faithful because you left their church and do not hold to all of their beliefs. What does suggest about their definition of being or remaining faithful? I had a similar experience after leaving the Roman Catholic church.

Romans 1:17
​

Verse (Click for Chapter)

New International Version​

For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

New Living Translation​

This Good News tells us how God makes us right in his sight. This is accomplished from start to finish by faith. As the Scriptures say, "It is through faith that a righteous person has life."

English Standard Version​

For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Berean Study Bible​

For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

Berean Literal Bible​

For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it has been written: "And the righteous will live by faith."

New American Standard Bible ​

For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

King James Bible​

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Hebrews 10:38
​

New International Version
And, "But my righteous one will live by faith. And I take no pleasure in the one who shrinks back."

New Living Translation
And my righteous ones will live by faith. But I will take no pleasure in anyone who turns away."

English Standard Version
but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.”

Berean Study Bible
But My righteous one will live by faith; and if he shrinks back, I will take no pleasure in him."

Berean Literal Bible
But My righteous one will live by faith; and if he might shrink back, My soul does not take pleasure in him."

New American Standard Bible
BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.

King James Bible
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

You gonna tell me it's not saying what it's saying?

I have always said that from beginning "have been saved through faith" to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works. In Hebrews 10:39, we read - "But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul." Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul; and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition. Not all of these Hebrews were genuine believers, as we see in Hebrews 4:1-6.

More context:

Luke 9:62
​

New International Version
Jesus replied, "No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God."

New Living Translation
But Jesus told him, "Anyone who puts a hand to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the Kingdom of God."

English Standard Version
Jesus said to him, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.”

Berean Study Bible
Then Jesus declared, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and then looks back is fit for the kingdom of God."

Berean Literal Bible
And Jesus said to him, "No one having laid the hand upon the plow, and looking on the things behind, is fit for the kingdom of God."

New American Standard Bible
But Jesus said to him, "No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."

​

Why? Because looking back is not of faith.

Is this verse describing being fit for "service" or membership in the kingdom of God? The NIV says not fit for "service" in the kingdom of God. In Matthew 26:1, we see that the disciples "fell away" because of Jesus. Was that considered looking back? Was that of faith? What was the end result?

All these scriptures qualify living one's whole life by faith, & not a one time decision.

One-time decisions is unfaithfulness.

I have always said that saving faith in Christ continues to trust in Christ for salvation throughout one's whole life and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. It's not a one-time, temporary decision made with our head that fades away, but an ongoing decision that is settled in one's heart.

 

[mailmandan]

Now you've said something worthwhile!

It's not that we believe in Christ(existance), but our trust & reliance is in Him.

That's what it means in Romans when it says, "the just shall live(continuously) by faith (trusting & relying on Him)

We begin this life in trusting & relying on Christ, & we end it the same.

Can we at least agree on that?

Yes, trusting & relying on Christ for salvation from beginning (Ephesians 2:8) to end (1 Peter 1:9).

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus said people stop believing because of persecution, affliction, and temptation-Luke 8:13, Matthew 13:21.

Exactly what kind of "belief" was this in the first place in Luke 8:13 and Matthew 13:21? If it was saving belief, then where is the fruit? Faith without works is dead. The shallow ground hearer is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was "not good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. People who hear and receive the word with joy (emotional response) and believe (in a shallow way) without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" do not experience real salvation.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root.." Problem from the start. Temporary shallow belief that was not firmly rooted or established from the start "has no root" represents rocky soil. Then we see the results of this. Temporary shallow belief that has no root, lacks moisture, produces no fruit and withers away is not saving belief.

In CONTRAST, we read in Matthew 13:23 - "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who INDEED BEARS FRUIT and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."

No more foolish than God choosing Judas to minister the gospel to the people during Jesus' earthly ministry even though God knew all along that Judas was a fake. Yet God gave him that position anyway. And He did it for a reason. Likewise, you should not try to apply your limited earthly logic to why God saves people who he knows will fall away. He has his reasons.

In John 6:70, we read - Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

In John 6:64, we read - But there are someof you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

In John 13:10, we read - Jesus said to him, "He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you." For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, "You are not all clean." Judas did not lose salvation. He never had it.

So why did Jesus choose Judas? In John 13:18, we read - I know whom I have chosen; BUT that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.’

In Matthew 10:1, we see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. This would include Judas Iscariot, yet Jesus referred to Judas Iscariot as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him! (John 6:64, 71; 13:10-11).

Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons but did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My own hate? I would love not hate for OSAS to be true. Why would someone not want OSAS to be true? My own father turned away from the faith of Jesus Christ. I would love to be wrong on this issue! But a reasonable and honest study of this subject proves otherwise.

I do not believe this, Because you would have to remove self from ther equation. And listening to you talk since you have been here, there is a lot of Pride.

For OSAS to be right, your pride would have to be broken.

A reasonable honest study of scriptures shows that Gods children, His lambs, His chosen ones, His adopted ones. His atoned ones. His beloved ones. His Justified ones. The ones he has perfected forever. And is in the process of sanctifying, His elect (whatever it is y90ou want to call them) are secure in him. Period.

 

[preacher4truth]

My own hate? I would love not hate for OSAS to be true. Why would someone not want OSAS to be true? My own father turned away from the faith of Jesus Christ.

Since when were you made judge of who is truly saved and who is lost?

I would love to be wrong on this issue! But a reasonable and honest study of this subject proves otherwise.

You're not Sola Scriptura and are placing subjective reason and personal experience above the Word. Dogs and hogs return to their vomit and wallowing respectively. Sheep don't become hogs, dogs or goats.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Exactly what kind of "belief" was this in the first place in Luke 8:13 and Matthew 13:21? If it was saving belief, then where is the fruit? Faith without works is dead. The shallow ground hearer is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was "not good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. People who hear and receive the word with joy (emotional response) and believe (in a shallow way) without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" do not experience real salvation.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root.." Problem from the start. Temporary shallow belief that was not firmly rooted or established from the start "has no root" represents rocky soil. Then we see the results of this. Temporary shallow belief that has no root, lacks moisture, produces no fruit and withers away is not saving belief.

In CONTRAST, we read in Matthew 13:23 - "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who INDEED BEARS FRUIT and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."

In John 6:70, we read - Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

In John 6:64, we read - But there are someof you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

In John 13:10, we read - Jesus said to him, "He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you." For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, "You are not all clean." Judas did not lose salvation. He never had it.

So why did Jesus choose Judas? In John 13:18, we read - I know whom I have chosen; BUT that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.’

In Matthew 10:1, we see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. This would include Judas Iscariot, yet Jesus referred to Judas Iscariot as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him! (John 6:64, 71; 13:10-11).

Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons but did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).

a lot of the people who are wrong about the main point of the gospel

get pretty much everything else wrong too...


this isnt the first time ive seen one of them trying to act like judas is an example of someone who LOST salvation

when the words of Jesus Himself clearly show who he truely served the whole time

 

[Chester]

Since when were you made judge of who is truly saved and who is lost?



You're not Sola Scriptura and are placing subjective reason and personal experience above the Word. Dogs and hogs return to their vomit and wallowing respectively. Sheep don't become hogs, dogs or goats.

LOL! When were you made a judge of who is Sola Scriptura? When did it become your prerogative to say that God cannot change sheep into goats or goats into sheep, . . .?

 

[Chester]

I do not believe this, Because you would have to remove self from ther equation. And listening to you talk since you have been here, there is a lot of Pride.

For OSAS to be right, your pride would have to be broken.

A reasonable honest study of scriptures shows that Gods children, His lambs, His chosen ones, His adopted ones. His atoned ones. His beloved ones. His Justified ones. The ones he has perfected forever. And is in the process of sanctifying, His elect (whatever it is y90ou want to call them) are secure in him. Period.

Really? Maybe so?

But if so, then perhaps "listening to you (EG) talk since you have been here, there is a lot of Pride. For OSAS to be wrong your pride would have to be broken. A reasonable study of Scripture shows that God's children, His lambs . . . are secure in Him" while they are believing in Him, . . .

I am not trying to accuse you, EG. What I am trying to do is to point out that you (in this post) may be turning to assumption and accusation rather than simply using Scripture as the basis for your arguments.

If you accuse someone of being proud, selfish, and not reasonable studying Scripture, then they are likely to turn around and use the same arguments against you. And then no one will profit.

In actuality, using presumption rather that Scripture only makes your own position seem weaker!

 

[Ralph-]

this isnt the first time ive seen one of them trying to act like judas is an example of someone who LOST salvation

WRONG! Had NOTHING to do with Judas losing his salvation. Go back and reread the discussion.....this time without your indoctrination steering what you're reading into what you expect to see.