How To Be Un-Saved
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he is trying to tell you we who are born again are kept by the power of God
you are suggesting it is up to the adopted son/daughter to maintain their faith
romans 8
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
___________
i'd say you're wrong
you are suggesting it is up to the adopted son/daughter to maintain their faith
romans 8
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
___________
i'd say you're wrong
GOD cast them away from entering the promised land of Israel after they were saved out bondage in Egypt, which symbolizes being cast away from entering the promised "land" of heaven after being saved from bondage in sin.
Now I want to remind you, [although] you know everything once and for all, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. Jude 1:5
Sorry, your analogy falls short....God did not cast them away...He led them by a pillar of fire and smoke all 40 years, provided food, sustained them, gave them a form of worship and never forsook them...it is not indicative of losing salvation.....nice try from your religion's point of view, but Hebrews does not support that conclusion..neither does the bible..
I will NEVER leave thee nor forsake thee!
I will NEVER leave thee nor forsake thee!
No, I don't think you do. I'm with Ralph, I agree with what he is saying, and your responses show a misunderstanding. For example, you assume that because our God gives us the power of free will, that our God is weak and impotent. And that's not the case at all. Our God casts mountains into the sea and changes lives thru intercessory miracles. He raises and calms the seas. He sets stars into motion and speaks their demise. He is by no means weak or impotent, as you assume Him to be. Our God could kick your God's butt ... if they weren't one and the same 
. If our God is weak then your God is weak ... because They are, one and the same.
No, the only difference is that our God respects free will, your God doesn't.
In the end, who knows who's right, until the end ... for my brother, his son, and everyone else who's turned away I truly do hope you are right and I am wrong. But when it sit and meditate on every. single. scripture. there is pertaining to the subject, my take away is that, as powerful as God is, He still respects free will.
The exercise of which is the one thing God says we can do that is not an act of works.
. If our God is weak then your God is weak ... because They are, one and the same.No, the only difference is that our God respects free will, your God doesn't.
In the end, who knows who's right, until the end ... for my brother, his son, and everyone else who's turned away I truly do hope you are right and I am wrong. But when it sit and meditate on every. single. scripture. there is pertaining to the subject, my take away is that, as powerful as God is, He still respects free will.
The exercise of which is the one thing God says we can do that is not an act of works.
No, I don't think you do. I'm with Ralph, I agree with what he is saying, and your responses show a misunderstanding. For example, you assume that because our God gives us the power of free will, that our God is weak and impotent. And that's not the case at all. Our God casts mountains into the sea and changes lives thru intercessory miracles. He raises and calms the seas. He sets stars into motion and speaks their demise. He is by no means weak or impotent, as you assume Him to be. Our God could kick your God's butt ... if they weren't one and the same . If our God is weak then your God is weak ... because They are, one and the same.
No, the only difference is that our God respects free will, your God doesn't.
In the end, who knows who's right, until the end ... for my brother, his son, and everyone else who's turned away I truly do hope you are right and I am wrong. But when it sit and meditate on every. single. scripture. there is pertaining to the subject, my take away is that, as powerful as God is, He still respects free will.
The exercise of which is the one thing God says we can do that is not an act of works.
. If our God is weak then your God is weak ... because They are, one and the same.No, the only difference is that our God respects free will, your God doesn't.
In the end, who knows who's right, until the end ... for my brother, his son, and everyone else who's turned away I truly do hope you are right and I am wrong. But when it sit and meditate on every. single. scripture. there is pertaining to the subject, my take away is that, as powerful as God is, He still respects free will.
The exercise of which is the one thing God says we can do that is not an act of works.
So tell me.....
Jesus is the beginner, finisher of our faith and will complete the good work of faith he begins in us...
Who begins it
JESUS or Ricky
Who FINISHES it
JESUS or RICKY
Who COMPLETES it
JESUS or RICKY
You would have me believe that I can throw this yoke off and by doing so lose my salvation..if that is the case the following is true which makes Jesus into a liar
JESUS BEGINS IT BUT
JESUS cannot FINISH IT
JESUS cannot COMPLETE IT
NO THANKS....I will pass on that LIE and stick with JESUS and his promise to FINISH it and COMPLETE IT
OK, time out. Pause the tape. Take a deep breath, 'cause I'm going to do what I do best - DERAIL THE THREAD!
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Have you ever wondered how time and eternity interact? I was taught there's a time-line, that there was eternity, then time, then eternity again. It was depicted graphically like this:
eternity) -----------time----------(eternity
But I've found over time that wasn't the case. You have to picture the relationship as a wheel. Most notably, a wheel has a hub and a rim.
Now, picture... Eternity exists in the hub, and time runs along the rim.
This gives God the ability to reach out and touch any point in time, at any time. Lemme say that again, you have to picture this. God, living in the hub, has the ability to, like randomly inserted spokes, reach out and touch any point on the rim, at any time.
So, God then has the ability to reach out to, say 1940 (randomly selected date). Having done that, He can reach out to 200 BC. Having done that, He could pop in and visit you right now. Then pop out and go see King David.
Like randomly inserted spokes in a wheel, God has access to all-of time, all-of-the time.
Let's example that advantage. There is power in praise and thanksgiving for answered prayers and requests. But how does that work? Simple. Our rim/time based after-the-fact praise and thanksgiving enters the hub/eternity before God... God in the hub says wow s/he was really grateful for that answered prayer... so He then inserts a spoke/reaches out to the rim/time, at a point that's behind us... and puts in motion the answer to the prayer or request that we will at a later date express true appreciation for.
Take the time to re-read that. Again if you have to.
God has access to all of time. All of the time.
-----------------
Ok, back to the subject.
Bob and Ryan go to church, go forward at the call, and confess Christ as Lord. God marks this point on the rim and says "from this point on I will keep you and never turn you away". For years ... even decades ... they are involved, one even leading worship. But... eventually they drift back into the world. They get caught ever deeper into it's deceit and lies. satan treats them good, making sure the comforts of the world make sure they don't miss that Jesus fellow. Eventually they are put in a situation where they have to fess up to God or deny. Having forgotten their path and fearing losing the comforts of the world, they deny. So God goes back to that marker on the rim and makes it disappear ... as if it never existed. With the caveat that it can never exist again.
2 Peter 20: If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
Because in the beginning at least they had the chance to be saved.
To those who insist on keeping the Law in connection with salvation:
What is sin?
Sin is the transgression of the Law.
Since we have been completely acquitted of ALL sin through the shed blood of Jesus, what hold does the Law have on us now?
None.
We have as many sins to answer for as Christ.
None.
It is absolutely pointless to claim that if we don't obey the Law - or certain aspects of the Law - we will forfeit our salvation.
We cannot be tried, let alone found guilty, for any more sins. It is finished. We have been declared not guilty. Jesus is seated at the Father's right hand, and is not coming back to die for any more sins.
The salvation issue is settled forever.
What is sin?
Sin is the transgression of the Law.
Since we have been completely acquitted of ALL sin through the shed blood of Jesus, what hold does the Law have on us now?
None.
We have as many sins to answer for as Christ.
None.
It is absolutely pointless to claim that if we don't obey the Law - or certain aspects of the Law - we will forfeit our salvation.
We cannot be tried, let alone found guilty, for any more sins. It is finished. We have been declared not guilty. Jesus is seated at the Father's right hand, and is not coming back to die for any more sins.
The salvation issue is settled forever.
E
your right its not, if taken in context and as jesus said it is the work of god (true saving belief, not mental agreement or knowledge)
saying one must of their own power continue to believe is making belief a work, your earning salvation by yourself in your ability to beleve, NOT god faithfulness to keep you in faith.
Is god faithful or not? If you do not think so, how can you say you ever had faith in him to begin with? You can’t and 1john 2 says you were never saved to begin with
saying one must of their own power continue to believe is making belief a work, your earning salvation by yourself in your ability to beleve, NOT god faithfulness to keep you in faith.
Is god faithful or not? If you do not think so, how can you say you ever had faith in him to begin with? You can’t and 1john 2 says you were never saved to begin with
E
I'm sorry that you see "continuing to believe" as a burden. Sad!
To me, continuing to believe is the greatest blessing God can allow me to have in Christ Jesus. The relationship I have in Him as I continue to believe is the key to what eternal life is to me.
Keep the cigar, anyway -- I don't smoke!
Keep the cigar, anyway -- I don't smoke!
E
actually i have had very little time to correct all my autocorrect mistakes. but thanks for caring. What a joke argument you just used.
I do not take it as a dig. I take it as a compliment, if youhad anything of value yu would not have to try to defame my character, you could just prove me wrong by truth.
i do not think it matters. Yu just did what most people who can not seem to prove it thers wrong. you attacked them to try to discredit them. Because your other ways failed.
I did better in spanish class than i did in english class, does that mean i am not to be trusted with the word of God.
get real man.
I do not take it as a dig. I take it as a compliment, if youhad anything of value yu would not have to try to defame my character, you could just prove me wrong by truth.
i do not think it matters. Yu just did what most people who can not seem to prove it thers wrong. you attacked them to try to discredit them. Because your other ways failed.
I did better in spanish class than i did in english class, does that mean i am not to be trusted with the word of God.
get real man.