I am righteous through the work of Christ Jesus
- Thread starter PeterJens
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
This is an interesting idea.
Christ saved you to make you a clean, righteous, loving individual.
You spent most of your life in church, even going to theological college, yet you
are so untouched by this, you regard yourself a sinner rather than a saint.
Now love is a powerful thing, it changes you. It takes your emotions and turns
them upside down, and makes people who you did not understand transparent.
Christ is in my heart and on the throne, but he is working through me.
If sin is no longer the issues you face but faith and love, what language do you
use? If ones heart teaches you how to change things from a problem to victory
do you say, woe is me, I have failed.
So I am the worst of sinners, I am lost in myself, I am cast down and empty, but
Christ has washed me and made me clean, put me on a platform and made me whole.
May I grow more each day in His glory and His message of love to others.
What I hear from you jaded legalists, is you have given up and bailed out.
And I am your enemy, a hypocrite and not saved. May God help you, for
your own consciences torture you daily, which should be a warning sign enough.
Christ saved you to make you a clean, righteous, loving individual.
You spent most of your life in church, even going to theological college, yet you
are so untouched by this, you regard yourself a sinner rather than a saint.
Now love is a powerful thing, it changes you. It takes your emotions and turns
them upside down, and makes people who you did not understand transparent.
Christ is in my heart and on the throne, but he is working through me.
If sin is no longer the issues you face but faith and love, what language do you
use? If ones heart teaches you how to change things from a problem to victory
do you say, woe is me, I have failed.
So I am the worst of sinners, I am lost in myself, I am cast down and empty, but
Christ has washed me and made me clean, put me on a platform and made me whole.
May I grow more each day in His glory and His message of love to others.
What I hear from you jaded legalists, is you have given up and bailed out.
And I am your enemy, a hypocrite and not saved. May God help you, for
your own consciences torture you daily, which should be a warning sign enough.
I love all the verses that describe believers who walk in the Spirit as righteous.
But read this one verse for those who walk in the flesh, it is the same everywhere in
scripture.
For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Rom 8 :13
Do the believers here know what delusion is? It is when a few words are too strong you
change their meaning
FLESH => DIE
We are not talking invented sin, or ethics, or a new way of defining what is ok and what
is not, but real sin, as layed out in scripture, big stuff.
You will die, not be saved, the end, blown apart, worth nothing.
If you stay in the faith to the end, proving your calling is true, then there is a crown of
glory waiting for you. And this is not hard, it is just the ultimate divide and proof you
know who Christ is and you are commited to His Kingdom.
And I know the price you guys paid as legalists, and it sucks, but it was always futile.
But it seems you have not actually changed, just created a mirror image, where hypocracy
is the badge of honour, not shame.
But read this one verse for those who walk in the flesh, it is the same everywhere in
scripture.
For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Rom 8 :13
Do the believers here know what delusion is? It is when a few words are too strong you
change their meaning
FLESH => DIE
We are not talking invented sin, or ethics, or a new way of defining what is ok and what
is not, but real sin, as layed out in scripture, big stuff.
You will die, not be saved, the end, blown apart, worth nothing.
If you stay in the faith to the end, proving your calling is true, then there is a crown of
glory waiting for you. And this is not hard, it is just the ultimate divide and proof you
know who Christ is and you are commited to His Kingdom.
And I know the price you guys paid as legalists, and it sucks, but it was always futile.
But it seems you have not actually changed, just created a mirror image, where hypocracy
is the badge of honour, not shame.
Curious..... first you put your "like" on his post, then lie & insult him?
I always wondered why you guys put your 'like' on certain posts, & then steer & twist the meanings of those posts. I now understand it's an approach to steer the subject to your liking & overturn the original intent of the writer.
This means you know where the writer was going, as well as where you are going. It means it was done with intent.
While PJ isn't perfect by no means,
1. That doesn't give you a God-given right to slander him, as you all do. Don't sin with slander thinking you will be forgiven for what you purposely did, planning in advance.
2. Don't twist his writings to say something it doesn't. If he is unrighteous for what he says, his own words will betray him. If he's as bad as you say he is, he doesn't need your help lying on him to make him look bad.
3. when you judge him, you're taking God's place, for it's God's responsibility to do that. You don't have that authority, no matter how much grace you claim.
4. You're only showing others how much more wicked you are by using lies & deceit to dismantle PJ's witness.
Everybody wants to expose PJ..... & with accusations they can't prove.
It's really looks more like a vendetta instead of an expose'. Much like the lies men used against Jesus they couldn't prove.
When one walks like a pharisee, talks like a pharisee, & deceives like a pharisee, they're a pharisee.
1Cor 15:3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.6After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;7then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
Because of grace we labor in the work of God. Paul said so because of grace, not using grace as an excuse to do whatever. The more grace, the more labor, & the more results.
Romans 8:37
English Standard Version
No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
Berean Study Bible
No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
Berean Literal Bible
But in all these things, we more than conquer through the One having loved us.
New American Standard Bible
But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
King James Bible
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
1Cor 9:19For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. 22To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. 23I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
Lots of 'becoming' & 'doing' & 'can do all things' in these verses.
I always wondered why you guys put your 'like' on certain posts, & then steer & twist the meanings of those posts. I now understand it's an approach to steer the subject to your liking & overturn the original intent of the writer.
This means you know where the writer was going, as well as where you are going. It means it was done with intent.
While PJ isn't perfect by no means,
1. That doesn't give you a God-given right to slander him, as you all do. Don't sin with slander thinking you will be forgiven for what you purposely did, planning in advance.
2. Don't twist his writings to say something it doesn't. If he is unrighteous for what he says, his own words will betray him. If he's as bad as you say he is, he doesn't need your help lying on him to make him look bad.
3. when you judge him, you're taking God's place, for it's God's responsibility to do that. You don't have that authority, no matter how much grace you claim.
4. You're only showing others how much more wicked you are by using lies & deceit to dismantle PJ's witness.
Everybody wants to expose PJ..... & with accusations they can't prove.
It's really looks more like a vendetta instead of an expose'. Much like the lies men used against Jesus they couldn't prove.
When one walks like a pharisee, talks like a pharisee, & deceives like a pharisee, they're a pharisee.
1Cor 15:3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.6After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;7then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
Because of grace we labor in the work of God. Paul said so because of grace, not using grace as an excuse to do whatever. The more grace, the more labor, & the more results.
Romans 8:37
English Standard Version
No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
Berean Study Bible
No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
Berean Literal Bible
But in all these things, we more than conquer through the One having loved us.
New American Standard Bible
But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
King James Bible
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
1Cor 9:19For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. 22To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. 23I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
Lots of 'becoming' & 'doing' & 'can do all things' in these verses.
There is a way of thinking were criticism is useful, if it is true.
So assume I am perfect, except for what?
Now perfection is not there in this case if sin is. So where have I sinned?
I am meaning in what I have said that you know and can actually show.
Now if you cannot show one sin, then I am innocent, and perfect
as far as you know. And there it has to rest, because it should not
matter to you, unless you believe no one is perfect ever except Christ
at any point in time. And if you think this you are in sin, in unbelief in
the work of Christ in your own life and in others.
Secondly if you have nothing and still accuse, you are into abuse and
judgmentalism, malice and slander which again is sin.
So it is always dangerous so believe something without evidence and then
to accuse another.
In all honesty I expect you to be pure, blameless and perfect in Christ until I know
or experience otherwise. Until I know, I can do nothing to help, and it does not
affect me. I hope you can grasp the point I am making.
The world is driven by jealousy, envy, malice, covetousness, bitterness, hatred.
Where as we in the Spirit are driven by love, hope, patience, goodness and self control.
So assume I am perfect, except for what?
Now perfection is not there in this case if sin is. So where have I sinned?
I am meaning in what I have said that you know and can actually show.
Now if you cannot show one sin, then I am innocent, and perfect
as far as you know. And there it has to rest, because it should not
matter to you, unless you believe no one is perfect ever except Christ
at any point in time. And if you think this you are in sin, in unbelief in
the work of Christ in your own life and in others.
Secondly if you have nothing and still accuse, you are into abuse and
judgmentalism, malice and slander which again is sin.
So it is always dangerous so believe something without evidence and then
to accuse another.
In all honesty I expect you to be pure, blameless and perfect in Christ until I know
or experience otherwise. Until I know, I can do nothing to help, and it does not
affect me. I hope you can grasp the point I am making.
The world is driven by jealousy, envy, malice, covetousness, bitterness, hatred.
Where as we in the Spirit are driven by love, hope, patience, goodness and self control.
I only meant that nobody is perfect..... not me, or you or anybody else. I am by no means perfect. In the time slot we're in, I don't expect perfection. So, no implication of fraud or sin towards anyone, yet no perfection either. Just being realistic, that's all.
Don't worry..... I wont make this same mistake twice.
Don't worry..... I wont make this same mistake twice.
I only meant that nobody is perfect..... not me, or you or anybody else. I am by no means perfect. In the time slot we're in, I don't expect perfection. So, no implication of fraud or sin towards anyone, yet no perfection either. Just being realistic, that's all.
Don't worry..... I wont make this same mistake twice.
Don't worry..... I wont make this same mistake twice.
Only the best in everything is perfect. So we only ever use it when something
out of a general group of things is so good we could not think of anything better.
But in Christ we are perfect. God is not finding fault with us, He is saying we are
washed, whole, Holy, Pure, clean.
So we need to learn what perfect means for Christ, not the world.
As followers of our Lord His language matters, and the way He uses it is our guide.
So to me you are a perfect brother in the Lord, worthy of love, support and thanks.
Please do not take what I wrote as a criticism, I am just rebalancing the use of
language, to a frame God puts on it.
A
at the cross, that is what makes you worthy....when you are a new creation? When you receive the HOLY spirit and can call yourself a child of God.
no we are machine made, but lovingly shaped and guided by God. When we hurt ourselves and others through sin. God cleans it with His tears by the blood of the lamb and teaches us how to heal and not do it again. So it's like a plant that sometimes have diseased branches cut off so that the rest can grow strong and hear fruit.
but they are for the penalty of sin is death. God doesn't pick up the dead branches and beat us with them. He causes new buds and branches to grow.
What happened to the verse that says even if your work is destroyed, if your foundation is Christ you will be saved like a iron from the fire?
1 Corinthians 3v14-15
If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
no we are machine made, but lovingly shaped and guided by God. When we hurt ourselves and others through sin. God cleans it with His tears by the blood of the lamb and teaches us how to heal and not do it again. So it's like a plant that sometimes have diseased branches cut off so that the rest can grow strong and hear fruit.
but they are for the penalty of sin is death. God doesn't pick up the dead branches and beat us with them. He causes new buds and branches to grow.
What happened to the verse that says even if your work is destroyed, if your foundation is Christ you will be saved like a iron from the fire?
1 Corinthians 3v14-15
If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Here is a simple point, that some seem to miss.
Jesus is wiping away our sins on the basis we walk with Him in His ways.
If we continue in sin and our ways, we are accountable for that walk.
God lays out in Ezek 18:25, all the righteous deeds will be forgotten, and
"for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die."
The belief in all future sin forgiven and forgotten before it is even done is
so wrong and evil, it is insane and against all God stands for.
It is why repentance and confession matter, sanctification, working things through,
knowing it is a journey and not just arriving. If when confronted with sin we
cannot repent and confess our relationship with the Lord has died. Where is our
faith or balance, we have betrayed Him who loved us above all.
And we know we are alive when we or if we go astray, we want to come back.
For many their faith grows cold, things pile up, the light grows dim, things fade
away, life piles in.
Often something happens and the slow death is shaken off, and the light goes
on again, and life is restored.
I have seen this happen to many, where they got into a rut, a ceremony and
the truth left them. It was like the feeling rode off, and they did not know why
they were doing it anymore.
So I am saying if you stop this sensitivity, you have stopped walking.
It is unfortunate that it is possible to create group elation without reality, and
get people to follow things that are simply deceptive. It is the power of trust
and belonging, where the leaders become your family without a filter, and you
are just open to anything they feed you. Switch off all other signals, conscience,
guilt, conviction, a sense of anything being wrong, and they are yours.
Jesus is wiping away our sins on the basis we walk with Him in His ways.
If we continue in sin and our ways, we are accountable for that walk.
God lays out in Ezek 18:25, all the righteous deeds will be forgotten, and
"for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die."
The belief in all future sin forgiven and forgotten before it is even done is
so wrong and evil, it is insane and against all God stands for.
It is why repentance and confession matter, sanctification, working things through,
knowing it is a journey and not just arriving. If when confronted with sin we
cannot repent and confess our relationship with the Lord has died. Where is our
faith or balance, we have betrayed Him who loved us above all.
And we know we are alive when we or if we go astray, we want to come back.
For many their faith grows cold, things pile up, the light grows dim, things fade
away, life piles in.
Often something happens and the slow death is shaken off, and the light goes
on again, and life is restored.
I have seen this happen to many, where they got into a rut, a ceremony and
the truth left them. It was like the feeling rode off, and they did not know why
they were doing it anymore.
So I am saying if you stop this sensitivity, you have stopped walking.
It is unfortunate that it is possible to create group elation without reality, and
get people to follow things that are simply deceptive. It is the power of trust
and belonging, where the leaders become your family without a filter, and you
are just open to anything they feed you. Switch off all other signals, conscience,
guilt, conviction, a sense of anything being wrong, and they are yours.
I agree as new creations, we are perfect, Holy, undefiled, pure, and clean.
But if we do not walk in the Spirit and walk in the old man, the ways of the world and
our desires and habits, we fall back.
A common testimony is the sense of being washed and clean elation, followed by a
relapse and struggle.
So I am trying to focus on is the aim, or goal is to reach maturity or perfection, a
state of stability and fellowship with the Lord that does not waver, that walks in
the Spirit and stays undefiled.
So I am probably failing, but I am comparing this mature state with how we start,
and saying they are dramatically different yet also the same. We are loved, cherished,
safe, but much ahead of us, and much is at risk. The likely hood of staying faithful
is surprisingly low. It is why to turn this into a once ok affair is just naive and wrong.
To also suggest active sin is not rebellion and denial of Christ, is also a denial of what
righteousness and repentance is, which is why it has had to be redefined.
For us to compromise these issues is to defile the name of Christ and the cross.
But if we do not walk in the Spirit and walk in the old man, the ways of the world and
our desires and habits, we fall back.
A common testimony is the sense of being washed and clean elation, followed by a
relapse and struggle.
So I am trying to focus on is the aim, or goal is to reach maturity or perfection, a
state of stability and fellowship with the Lord that does not waver, that walks in
the Spirit and stays undefiled.
So I am probably failing, but I am comparing this mature state with how we start,
and saying they are dramatically different yet also the same. We are loved, cherished,
safe, but much ahead of us, and much is at risk. The likely hood of staying faithful
is surprisingly low. It is why to turn this into a once ok affair is just naive and wrong.
To also suggest active sin is not rebellion and denial of Christ, is also a denial of what
righteousness and repentance is, which is why it has had to be redefined.
For us to compromise these issues is to defile the name of Christ and the cross.
Ariel - I have come to an impass.
Some of the people here are 100% more religious than me, have led dedicated lives
that I would not even try and match.
I have one reality in my life, that Jesus called me with, my heart and my honesty.
How I feel and how I react to things matter. It tells me what is true and what is false.
Now I then compare what is happening with me to Gods word, and His ways.
What is consistent is people who barely know themselves use way off theology and
excuses to justify what is happening around them with scripture that contradicts it.
So I am in a problem. My heart would love to agree with people, empathise, be
sympathetic, yet scripture calls me to speak what is before me.
I am not the judge, or even of importance, or of any great reputation or standing.
But these things are so true, I cannot deny them, my heart rejoices in my King.
Even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!
Gal 1:8
I know their emotional history keeps them where they are, but they desire to
condemn, accuse, slander, and destroy any in their way. A wolf if ever I saw.
I have no reason to say anything against these people other than their continual
condemnation and accusations against me and scripture. If I was to agree,
then I would deny my very faith. So I hold nothing against them other than
the position they continually hold and their aggression to prove it without
foundation. It makes me wonder how they can read the same scripture and
miss it obvious reality, especially with there vast biblical training and experience.
Some of the people here are 100% more religious than me, have led dedicated lives
that I would not even try and match.
I have one reality in my life, that Jesus called me with, my heart and my honesty.
How I feel and how I react to things matter. It tells me what is true and what is false.
Now I then compare what is happening with me to Gods word, and His ways.
What is consistent is people who barely know themselves use way off theology and
excuses to justify what is happening around them with scripture that contradicts it.
So I am in a problem. My heart would love to agree with people, empathise, be
sympathetic, yet scripture calls me to speak what is before me.
I am not the judge, or even of importance, or of any great reputation or standing.
But these things are so true, I cannot deny them, my heart rejoices in my King.
Even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!
Gal 1:8
I know their emotional history keeps them where they are, but they desire to
condemn, accuse, slander, and destroy any in their way. A wolf if ever I saw.
I have no reason to say anything against these people other than their continual
condemnation and accusations against me and scripture. If I was to agree,
then I would deny my very faith. So I hold nothing against them other than
the position they continually hold and their aggression to prove it without
foundation. It makes me wonder how they can read the same scripture and
miss it obvious reality, especially with there vast biblical training and experience.
A
Ask yourself why did you not include the verses I quoted in your post?
.they fall right between two sets that you did quote.
God tells us to take the log out of our own eye before trying to attempt eye surgery on others.
You have a log sized blind spot concerning what Jesus did upon the cross. He died for the remission of the sins.
Reread the verses i quoted and pray. Then honestly in your own words tell me what you think it means.
1 Corinthians 3v14-15
If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
.they fall right between two sets that you did quote.
God tells us to take the log out of our own eye before trying to attempt eye surgery on others.
You have a log sized blind spot concerning what Jesus did upon the cross. He died for the remission of the sins.
Reread the verses i quoted and pray. Then honestly in your own words tell me what you think it means.
1 Corinthians 3v14-15
If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Ariel - I have no log. The point I am making is our actions matter.
Now the whole passage is related to believers and how they build on the foundation
of Christ. For those with a true foundation in Christ they are saved though with nothing
remaining. My concern is when people have all the religious background, then deny its
working in their life, but have a new revelation that condemns all their previous brothers
and sisters in the faith to be empty false believers.
When you deny repentance, confession, dealing with sin in your walk, you are no longer
a believer in the biblical meaning of the words. I have seen nice culturally developed
people gain a faith model that completely ignores any framework, and they argue they
are the example of why it is true. In reality the most extreme exploitative individuals
can take the same morality, change nothing, and produce a totally corrupt movement
with no means of correction or resolution.
Our real template of faith is an open honest heart. The word of Christ who works in us
is the reality of the gospel that bring fruit and change in the believer. It is no surprise
that all the most vocal are closed down legalists determined to attack and destroy what
they regard as the enemy who are lying and creating a truly corrupting version of faith.
Muslims use the same argument except they are the legalists, and the corrupters are
those who use no law framework. And their legalism is extreme and totally without love
or mercy.
Now the whole passage is related to believers and how they build on the foundation
of Christ. For those with a true foundation in Christ they are saved though with nothing
remaining. My concern is when people have all the religious background, then deny its
working in their life, but have a new revelation that condemns all their previous brothers
and sisters in the faith to be empty false believers.
When you deny repentance, confession, dealing with sin in your walk, you are no longer
a believer in the biblical meaning of the words. I have seen nice culturally developed
people gain a faith model that completely ignores any framework, and they argue they
are the example of why it is true. In reality the most extreme exploitative individuals
can take the same morality, change nothing, and produce a totally corrupt movement
with no means of correction or resolution.
Our real template of faith is an open honest heart. The word of Christ who works in us
is the reality of the gospel that bring fruit and change in the believer. It is no surprise
that all the most vocal are closed down legalists determined to attack and destroy what
they regard as the enemy who are lying and creating a truly corrupting version of faith.
Muslims use the same argument except they are the legalists, and the corrupters are
those who use no law framework. And their legalism is extreme and totally without love
or mercy.
How do we know what is possible and what is not?
Our experience, our emotional history of failures and successes.
I went climbing on a climbing wall a few years ago. They have there
a climbing route where you are held with a self supporting belay, so if
you fall you will be lowered gently to the floor.
Now I climbed the whole route, about 30ft off the ground. I then had a choice
jump and trust the belay or climb back down. Now though I had trusted the
system to save me, I could not jump, which is plain stupid. It is stupid because
I trusted it to save my life, but could not choose to trust it.
Walking with Christ is much more involved and the issues eternal and important.
So I realise in Christ we need to question our assumptions, language, feeling we
have grown up with, and seek Gods perspective. Purity, holiness, blamelessness
are just a few realities we need to work through.
It is obvious to me, though we are in the Kingdom of heaven, just asking and exploring
such ideas and propositions, for some means I am the enemy, I am evil, I am to be
shunned or nuts. But a few generations ago, people would have been killed for some
actions, or even to ask the questions I am asking.
So do not think any position can not be talked through, and new conclusions drawn,
because I have now progressed and changed my view and language already as a
result. And these conclusions can hold life and maturity. But for some only their
position holds the correct view, without even discussion or fellowship.
Our experience, our emotional history of failures and successes.
I went climbing on a climbing wall a few years ago. They have there
a climbing route where you are held with a self supporting belay, so if
you fall you will be lowered gently to the floor.
Now I climbed the whole route, about 30ft off the ground. I then had a choice
jump and trust the belay or climb back down. Now though I had trusted the
system to save me, I could not jump, which is plain stupid. It is stupid because
I trusted it to save my life, but could not choose to trust it.
Walking with Christ is much more involved and the issues eternal and important.
So I realise in Christ we need to question our assumptions, language, feeling we
have grown up with, and seek Gods perspective. Purity, holiness, blamelessness
are just a few realities we need to work through.
It is obvious to me, though we are in the Kingdom of heaven, just asking and exploring
such ideas and propositions, for some means I am the enemy, I am evil, I am to be
shunned or nuts. But a few generations ago, people would have been killed for some
actions, or even to ask the questions I am asking.
So do not think any position can not be talked through, and new conclusions drawn,
because I have now progressed and changed my view and language already as a
result. And these conclusions can hold life and maturity. But for some only their
position holds the correct view, without even discussion or fellowship.
A
Yes our actions do matter, but not whether we are saved or not. You need to pray about your logs.
Period. Stop and meditate upon that thought for a while, before moving on to looking at others.
log and unacknowledged hurt.
Why the they language? Why do you feel condemned by their opinions?
The only opinion that truly matters is God's when it comes to ones salvation. Wouldn't it be better to pray and ask that God bless others to have a more loving heart than to lash back?
you just judged and condemned them as nonbelievers because you don't understand their position. Is that what God tells us to do in the Bible?
are you implying that they are part of a corrupt movement?
this is true.
attack
Attack.
Don't you get tired of attacking?
Period. Stop and meditate upon that thought for a while, before moving on to looking at others.
log and unacknowledged hurt.
Why the they language? Why do you feel condemned by their opinions?
The only opinion that truly matters is God's when it comes to ones salvation. Wouldn't it be better to pray and ask that God bless others to have a more loving heart than to lash back?
you just judged and condemned them as nonbelievers because you don't understand their position. Is that what God tells us to do in the Bible?
are you implying that they are part of a corrupt movement?
this is true.
attack
Attack.
Don't you get tired of attacking?