I am righteous through the work of Christ Jesus

[PeterJens]

I was thinking about what belief is, as so many seem to thing belief
is like I believe the Jesus was a nice guy.

When people say they believe in someone, they mean they like them, they have good
intentions, but nothing more.

When Jesus says believe in me, He means you trust His words with ones own life.
Every word has an intention and an outcome. Nothing is vain or empty, nothing without
purpose or direction.

So to believe in Christ and not obey, is not belief, but cynicism and unbelief.
Arguing one can believe in Christ yet not follow, is saying it is all nice, but you reserve
the right to do what you want.

But Jesus is saying this lack of communion with Him is the whole problem, man going his
own way. So saying you are now going to go Jesus's way but not, is therefore lying
to yourself you know Christ at all.

The truth is if you follow with an open heart, fruit will come from your heart.

I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
John 10:10

You are my friends if you do what I command.
John 15:14

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
John 13:34

Now think how easily we slip from this, but why?
What is it that makes you annoyed, irritated, upset, and not encouraged,
rejoicing and built up?

 

[Grace777x70]

If we could stop sinning or start loving others from a sheer act of our will there would be no need for Christ to come because all we would have to do is keep all the commandments that Moses put down for us by our own will-power.

In the natural the fruit of our own self-will and the fruit of our righteousness in Christ and His life in us effecting the change look alike outwardly. ( the same as Abrahams self-effort in his flesh produced a son outwardly )

Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God from his own self-effort but God only recognizes what comes from His work in us - no flesh shall glory in His presence.

When Abraham gave up and just believed that God would fulfill His promise - then God gave him and Sarah the ability to have a son. So, they just went about living naturally...had sex and God's promise came into being...a natural outflow of them just living....the son of promise came then. God's fruit in them being produced.

All Christians agree what the "fruit" of the life of God looks like. But does it come by us producing the fruit or by relying on the root..which for us Christians is Christ's life in us. ( the whole He is the vine.....His life is the sap that flows out of us because we are the branches thing )

Sometimes we see what the fruit should look like and we say to people.."produce" this fruit..or else.

Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit which is not something we produce in our own flesh or will-power just by choosing to stop something. It can last for a bit but eventually we all give in because our flesh is weak. I think choosing by an act of our will is involved in both circumstances. Choosing to change by our will power and living from the life of Christ both involve the will.

 

[PeterJens]

Peter J seems to have kicked Jesus off the throne years ago, and taken His place as far as his life is concerned. We are never going to convince him that he and the whore or drug dealer are the same in God's eyes. He "knows" he is better.

We'll just have to leave that up to the Holy Spirit.

I am trying to get my head around this and understood the irony.
Christ puts us alongside Him, teaches and refines us to walk as He walks.

Do you really think God looks at the unrepentant sinner the same as a saint?
The saint knows they are redeemed from being a sinner, that everything they
are and have become is because of His work in our lives. But we are always
a servant, doing our Fathers will, never worthy of the blessing or forgiveness
we receive, and always in His debt. And the needed sinner is in greater need
of love, because they are still not healed, still not resolved, still not walking
with Christ.

So I do not recognise "Willie-T" description, but I do see why he is doing it.
He wants to say I am proud of what I am, boasting what I have achieved and
not recognising my needs and redemption. Well none of this is true.

What I am doing is wanting to encourage you to see how God sees you, and
the place in His heart you have found.

You are His chosen Royal Priesthood, a holy nation, belonging to God.
You are not a defeated people, but overcomes
who can walk in purity and holiness, with a blameless heart and a loving spirit.

You are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
1 Peter 2:9

To those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours
1 Cor 1:2

I hear about your love for all his holy people and your faith in the Lord Jesus.
Philomen 1:5

Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.
1 Cor 6:19-20

 

[Ariel82]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-34yLLSS38M

Willie's words still bugging you?

The above song might help.

 

[gb9]

so far today, in this thread, peter has declared himself pure, holy, righteous. then in another thread, he said he can " walk along side Jesus." this silly parade of self-righteousness, and ego trippen continues.........

 

[PeterJens]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-34yLLSS38M

Willie's words still bugging you?

The above song might help.

Thankyou. I forgive Willie, I was trying to understand his reasoning. I suppose I had
more respect for him than he realises. But then you can get people very wrong.

 

[PeterJens]

so far today, in this thread, peter has declared himself pure, holy, righteous. then in another thread, he said he can " walk along side Jesus." this silly parade of self-righteousness, and ego trippen continues.........

Cynism and unbelief example. We as clean, washed, purified followers of Christ are
equally so named and described. It is this kind of response that makes Gods people
not talk the language of the Kingdom.

Paul wrote his letters to Gods Holy people.

I think someone needs to look up why Paul is saying this, and how we equally should
be realising what we are truly in Christ, and walk with honour in the name of the Lord,
and stop listening to the enemy and his false accusations.

 

[Grace777x70]

The bible doesn't say " try to live holy because God is holy." It says "Be holy because God is holy".

How are we going to "be holy?" - He needs to make us holy which He has done in Christ. Now we work out what already is inside of us in the new creation that is in Christ and joined as one spirit with Him created in righteousness and holiness.

We have made righteousness and holiness the end goal of the Christian life when in reality - it is the starting place for our true life in Christ.

We are righteous and holy in our inner man in Christ and now we walk this out - How? By beholding the goodness/glory of the Lord as in a mirror and the Holy Spirit transforms us to reflect outwardly in our behavior what "already is in the new man in Christ." 2 Cor. 3:17-18

It is all about "keeping our eyes on Jesus and what He has already done".

We "put on Christ" and then people can see the love and grace of our Lord towards them which speaks to them of the glory/goodness of our Lord.

Get this backwards and we create a humanistic self-righteousness/holiness mindset that tries to "mimic the life of Christ" by "dictating fruit" instead of abiding in Christ and His life in us will bear His fruit to the glory of God.

Religion always gets the gospel and the finished work of Christ backwards.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

How can people leave the Lord?

By putting their hand to the plow and then turning back.
By letting the worries of this life choke the Spirit.
By trusting what the world says we must do to be safe and secure rather than what He says.
By saying we trust Him then proving we don't by our worries over provision.
By listening to others who say it is impossible to abide in Him and therefore not sin.
(To name a few.)

 

[stonesoffire]

Jesus died on the cross for our sins. He showed the way of love.

He called us to follow Him, after being purified of our sins and having
been anointed with the Holy Spirit who indwells His Holy Temple.

We are now clean, purified, blameless people with a clean conscience.

If we walk in the Spirit we are not defiled by our hearts, or words, or actions.

So can we then truly say Jesus has made us righteous, blameless, Holy?

Reading Paul and Peter etc. it would appear so.

The problem is though we can know the words, without an open heart,
and letting God affect and change our emotions and ways of being,
all the words can be meaningless, without effect.

So it could well be only the true elect are capable of this walk.
It may also be a refiners fire, a cleansing and sanctification that has to
do with building a new mature person is the shell of who we are born in
the flesh takes time, perseverance, patience, faithfulness, testing.

Moses did not start his work until aged 80.
Abraham equally was finally tested past 100.

We start the walk mere children, excited and empowered.
The whole sacrificial system took into account the walk has trials and failures,
and growth. Nothing is complete overnight, the old self needs to be replaced
with the new self in Christ. We must put off one and put on the other.

Paul did not give up on Corinth, but called them to repent.
Revelations calls the people of God to victory, to overcome.

The fight is always on, to carry the cross daily, and bring glory to His name.

Righteousness is indeed imputed...but victory is when we rest in faith...not fight. 　


Rom 10:6　 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above　


Rom 10:7　 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)　


Rom 10:8　 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;　


Rom 10:9　 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.　


Rom 10:10　 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.　


Rom 10:11　 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.　

 

[Blik]

We have made righteousness and holiness the end goal of the Christian life when in reality - it is the starting place for our true life in Christ .

How very true. When we take our sins (those we are aware of and those we do not understand that we are committing) to Christ we are washed clean as snow as the old hymn tells us. Now we start our walk in the narrow road of the kingdom, keeping in the light and easy path of that kingdom.

Following the 119th psalm is following Christ. It needs to be so thoroughly in our minds and heart that we memorize the psalm.

 

[Ariel82]

By putting their hand to the plow and then turning back.
By letting the worries of this life choke the Spirit.
By trusting what the world says we must do to be safe and secure rather than what He says.
By saying we trust Him then proving we don't by our worries over provision.
By listening to others who say it is impossible to abide in Him and therefore not sin.
(To name a few.)

Do you then lose your salvation?

Those things to quench the Holy Spirit, and causes your life to be unproductive. However, if your foundation is Christ...does it cause Christ to break and no longer be your foundation?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Do you then lose your salvation?

Those things to quench the Holy Spirit, and causes your life to be unproductive. However, if your foundation is Christ...does it cause Christ to break and no longer be your foundation?

I guess you have to determine for yourself, if the distinction is of great importance to you, what exactly "not fit for the kingdom" entails.
It has become a moot point for me personally.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

GOD Is sovereign and could have done anything HE wanted to do.GOD does everything the right way.
+++
Hebrews 1:7-10
King James Version(KJV)

7.)And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8.)But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9.)Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10.)And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
+++

 

[PeterJens]

To realise our position in Christ matters.

The enemies strategy is to deny we have ever arrived.

The problem is only those who have arrived will be able to see it, because
only with a pure heart will you see God, so everything is fuzzy until you arrive.

It was why Jesus said His disciples were clean. Things once fulfilled would make
sense and things could move forward. Equally in our lives, if with an open heart
we can be honest and resolve our inner conflicts and distortions, we can see straight
enough to help others.

And I know being on both sides of this fence, so I know how impossible it appears
to be. But Christ is saying, nope. Get clean and open your eyes. It is not that
hard a problem, but everything in you will fight it, because everything says it will
mean the end, or impossible commitments or anything that will stop you compromising.

We are built to let things stay where they are, and not upset our lives.
It stops the Lord getting through and very often doing things we would all get great
blessing from.

 

[gb9]

I quoted to you twice in the not by works thread that Paul said HE HAD NOT ARRIVED yet in Philippians 3. and you say you have arrived. so, using logical reasoning , Paul is your enemy because of what you said above. nice.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do you then lose your salvation?

Those things to quench the Holy Spirit, and causes your life to be unproductive. However, if your foundation is Christ...does it cause Christ to break and no longer be your foundation?

If so, then our salvation was not by grace, but by merit (works)

 

[Blik]

Do you then lose your salvation?

Those things to quench the Holy Spirit, and causes your life to be unproductive. However, if your foundation is Christ...does it cause Christ to break and no longer be your foundation?

Salvation comes after we take our sins to Christ with repentance, then our Father has the power to save. No human has the power to achieve his own salvation by any means, including the work we do.

That does not mean that every one of the 176 verses of the 119th psalm is not the truth and every verse is about the blessings of the law, including our works to obey.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To say we could be more righteous is to say that Jesus could be more righteous, since any righteousness we have is, in reality, Christ's righteousness.

Another thread, which speaks of the character and who God is, shows us that we can not even attain that righteousness on our own.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And if you go read his posts in the NOT By Works thread he seems to contradict that he actually believes this!

Do not forget his own is the cross enough thread.