I DON'T BELIEVE THE MILLENIUM WILL BE ON EARTH, BUT RATHER, UP IN HEAVEN

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MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
Sep 5, 2014
237
67
28
#1
I DON'T BELIEVE THE MILLENIUM WILL BE ON EARTH, BUT RATHER, UP IN HEAVEN
Some Christians sincerely believe that Jesus will spend a millenium of years on earth together on earth. Though I respect their view, this is not how it looks to me in light of the scriptures on that subject, (I Thessalonians 4:16-17) that I know. I also believe that according to Bible numerology teachings, that both 10 and the multiple of 10, symbolically refer to a complete number. I don't believe it means an exact number, but more likely, just a rounded off number, in some cases. And when it refers to eternity in heaven, it is numberless as it is eternity. And in other cases, it just refers to a great, total number of something. Such as the 144,000 (number created by multiplying 12 by 12 by 1000) people of all nations in heaven, after the rapture - Revelation 7:4; 14:1 & 3; and chapter 21
If you'd like to study Bible numerology, go to this link I found:
https://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/meaning-of-numbers-in-bible/10000.html
Below, I copied their mention of various places in the Bible where the number 10,000 is used:
The Meaning of Numbers: The Number 10,000
The number 10,000 derives part of its Bible meaning from the fact that it is sometimes used to denote a group that is innumerable or countless (see Paul and Revelation's use below). It also has a relationship with several Judges of Israel.
Haman, Prime Minister of Persia, was willing to pay the empire's king 10,000 talents of silver (worth around $180 million today) to defray the cost of murdering all the Jews in the kingdom (Esther 3:9)!
Deborah, a prophetess who was Israel's Judge, summons a man named Barak. Inspired by God, she charges him with gathering 10,000 men to fight King Jabin's army in order to free Israel of his twenty-year oppression (Judges 4:1 - 7, 14). Barak agrees to lead the army into battle only if Deborah comes with him (verse 8). After Israel defeats their oppressor the people enjoy forty years of peace (5:31).
Gideon is called by God to free his people from Midianite domination. He sends messengers to four Israelite tribes asking men to volunteer to fight Midian (Judges 6:1 - 35).
About 32,000 men come to Gideon, far more than God is willing to use to defeat the enemy. Those who are afraid or fearful are told to go back home, leaving an army of ten thousand (Judges 7:2 - 3). The army is still too large for the Eternal, and it is ultimately whittled down to only 300 before it can win a mighty victory (verses 4 - 7).
God called Ehud, a rare left-handed warrior, to save his people from the oppression of the Moabites (Judges 3:12 - 15). After killing Eglon, Moab's king, Ehud rallies the Israelites to fight against their enemies. The King James Bible then states something odd about the Moabites who were killed.
And they (the Israelites) slew of Moab at that time about ten thousand men, ALL LUSTY, and all men of valor; and there escaped not a man (Judges 3:29, KJV).
Paul's use of the number 10,000
Paul loved the church at Corinth in spite of their many difficulties and the tremendous effort he expended on their behalf. He expressed his special spiritual relationship with them using 10,000.
For you might have ten thousand tutors in Christ, but you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I did beget you through the gospel (1Corinthians 4:15).
Apostle Paul, several chapters later, again uses 10,000 to illustrate a point. He utilizes it to show the overwhelming importance of speaking words that others can understand versus the overrated gift of speaking in tongues (other languages).
But in the church, I desire to speak five words with my understanding rather than ten thousand words in an unknown language, so that I may also instruct others (1Corinthians 14:19).
In the Bible, 10,000 is used in its last book to describe the vast quantity of righteous spirit beings that surround the Eternal's throne. If taken literally, the verse in question is likely delineating the largest number recorded in God's word!
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands (Revelation 5:11, KJV).
 

Micaiah-imla

Well-known member
Feb 29, 2020
1,319
481
83
#2
I also believe that according to Bible numerology teachings, that..,
You lost me here.

Christ will indeed reign 1,000 years on earth with the saints who have refused the mark of the beast or escaped capture by the beasts’ minions.

Afterward Satan will be released and cast into the lake of fire.

This much is clear in scripture.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
31,451
9,529
113
65
Florida
#3
You lost me here.

Christ will indeed reign 1,000 years on earth with the saints who have refused the mark of the beast or escaped capture by the beasts’ minions.

Afterward Satan will be released and cast into the lake of fire.

This much is clear in scripture.
This is exactly the way that it is going down. Jesus is going to take the government upon His shoulders. The nations are on earth not in heaven that will be governed.
 

DWR

Active member
Apr 27, 2020
214
125
43
#4
I DON'T BELIEVE THE MILLENIUM WILL BE ON EARTH, BUT RATHER, UP IN HEAVEN
Some Christians sincerely believe that Jesus will spend a millenium of years on earth together on earth. Though I respect their view, this is not how it looks to me in light of the scriptures on that subject, (I Thessalonians 4:16-17) that I know. I also believe that according to Bible numerology teachings, that both 10 and the multiple of 10, symbolically refer to a complete number. I don't believe it means an exact number, but more likely, just a rounded off number, in some cases. And when it refers to eternity in heaven, it is numberless as it is eternity. And in other cases, it just refers to a great, total number of something. Such as the 144,000 (number created by multiplying 12 by 12 by 1000) people of all nations in heaven, after the rapture - Revelation 7:4; 14:1 & 3; and chapter 21
If you'd like to study Bible numerology, go to this link I found:
https://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/meaning-of-numbers-in-bible/10000.html
Below, I copied their mention of various places in the Bible where the number 10,000 is used:
The Meaning of Numbers: The Number 10,000
The number 10,000 derives part of its Bible meaning from the fact that it is sometimes used to denote a group that is innumerable or countless (see Paul and Revelation's use below). It also has a relationship with several Judges of Israel.
Haman, Prime Minister of Persia, was willing to pay the empire's king 10,000 talents of silver (worth around $180 million today) to defray the cost of murdering all the Jews in the kingdom (Esther 3:9)!
Deborah, a prophetess who was Israel's Judge, summons a man named Barak. Inspired by God, she charges him with gathering 10,000 men to fight King Jabin's army in order to free Israel of his twenty-year oppression (Judges 4:1 - 7, 14). Barak agrees to lead the army into battle only if Deborah comes with him (verse 8). After Israel defeats their oppressor the people enjoy forty years of peace (5:31).
Gideon is called by God to free his people from Midianite domination. He sends messengers to four Israelite tribes asking men to volunteer to fight Midian (Judges 6:1 - 35).
About 32,000 men come to Gideon, far more than God is willing to use to defeat the enemy. Those who are afraid or fearful are told to go back home, leaving an army of ten thousand (Judges 7:2 - 3). The army is still too large for the Eternal, and it is ultimately whittled down to only 300 before it can win a mighty victory (verses 4 - 7).
God called Ehud, a rare left-handed warrior, to save his people from the oppression of the Moabites (Judges 3:12 - 15). After killing Eglon, Moab's king, Ehud rallies the Israelites to fight against their enemies. The King James Bible then states something odd about the Moabites who were killed.
And they (the Israelites) slew of Moab at that time about ten thousand men, ALL LUSTY, and all men of valor; and there escaped not a man (Judges 3:29, KJV).
Paul's use of the number 10,000
Paul loved the church at Corinth in spite of their many difficulties and the tremendous effort he expended on their behalf. He expressed his special spiritual relationship with them using 10,000.
For you might have ten thousand tutors in Christ, but you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I did beget you through the gospel (1Corinthians 4:15).
Apostle Paul, several chapters later, again uses 10,000 to illustrate a point. He utilizes it to show the overwhelming importance of speaking words that others can understand versus the overrated gift of speaking in tongues (other languages).
But in the church, I desire to speak five words with my understanding rather than ten thousand words in an unknown language, so that I may also instruct others (1Corinthians 14:19).
In the Bible, 10,000 is used in its last book to describe the vast quantity of righteous spirit beings that surround the Eternal's throne. If taken literally, the verse in question is likely delineating the largest number recorded in God's word!
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands (Revelation 5:11, KJV).
So you do not believe Scripture?
 

Corban

Active member
Jun 11, 2020
155
42
28
69
#5
I DON'T BELIEVE THE MILLENIUM WILL BE ON EARTH, BUT RATHER, UP IN HEAVEN
Some Christians sincerely believe that Jesus will spend a millenium of years on earth together on earth. Though I respect their view, this is not how it looks to me in light of the scriptures on that subject, (I Thessalonians 4:16-17) that I know. I also believe that according to Bible numerology teachings, that both 10 and the multiple of 10, symbolically refer to a complete number. I don't believe it means an exact number, but more likely, just a rounded off number, in some cases. And when it refers to eternity in heaven, it is numberless as it is eternity. And in other cases, it just refers to a great, total number of something. Such as the 144,000 (number created by multiplying 12 by 12 by 1000) people of all nations in heaven, after the rapture - Revelation 7:4; 14:1 & 3; and chapter 21
If you'd like to study Bible numerology, go to this link I found:
https://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/meaning-of-numbers-in-bible/10000.html
Below, I copied their mention of various places in the Bible where the number 10,000 is used:
The Meaning of Numbers: The Number 10,000
The number 10,000 derives part of its Bible meaning from the fact that it is sometimes used to denote a group that is innumerable or countless (see Paul and Revelation's use below). It also has a relationship with several Judges of Israel.
Haman, Prime Minister of Persia, was willing to pay the empire's king 10,000 talents of silver (worth around $180 million today) to defray the cost of murdering all the Jews in the kingdom (Esther 3:9)!
Deborah, a prophetess who was Israel's Judge, summons a man named Barak. Inspired by God, she charges him with gathering 10,000 men to fight King Jabin's army in order to free Israel of his twenty-year oppression (Judges 4:1 - 7, 14). Barak agrees to lead the army into battle only if Deborah comes with him (verse 8). After Israel defeats their oppressor the people enjoy forty years of peace (5:31).
Gideon is called by God to free his people from Midianite domination. He sends messengers to four Israelite tribes asking men to volunteer to fight Midian (Judges 6:1 - 35).
About 32,000 men come to Gideon, far more than God is willing to use to defeat the enemy. Those who are afraid or fearful are told to go back home, leaving an army of ten thousand (Judges 7:2 - 3). The army is still too large for the Eternal, and it is ultimately whittled down to only 300 before it can win a mighty victory (verses 4 - 7).
God called Ehud, a rare left-handed warrior, to save his people from the oppression of the Moabites (Judges 3:12 - 15). After killing Eglon, Moab's king, Ehud rallies the Israelites to fight against their enemies. The King James Bible then states something odd about the Moabites who were killed.
And they (the Israelites) slew of Moab at that time about ten thousand men, ALL LUSTY, and all men of valor; and there escaped not a man (Judges 3:29, KJV).
Paul's use of the number 10,000
Paul loved the church at Corinth in spite of their many difficulties and the tremendous effort he expended on their behalf. He expressed his special spiritual relationship with them using 10,000.
For you might have ten thousand tutors in Christ, but you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I did beget you through the gospel (1Corinthians 4:15).
Apostle Paul, several chapters later, again uses 10,000 to illustrate a point. He utilizes it to show the overwhelming importance of speaking words that others can understand versus the overrated gift of speaking in tongues (other languages).
But in the church, I desire to speak five words with my understanding rather than ten thousand words in an unknown language, so that I may also instruct others (1Corinthians 14:19).
In the Bible, 10,000 is used in its last book to describe the vast quantity of righteous spirit beings that surround the Eternal's throne. If taken literally, the verse in question is likely delineating the largest number recorded in God's word!
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands (Revelation 5:11, KJV).
There is some confusion on this matter in 1st Thessalonians 4. I hope to shed some light on it. Here is the full text:

13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."


The confusion comes from two directions.
  1. First, most of Christianity believes that dead Christians go to heaven when they die.
  2. This seems to be confirmed by verse 14 which says that Christ will bring them with Him when He comes
But if these two points are believed, then verses 16-17 become a mystery, for they say that the dead RISE and meet the living on the face of the earth and TOGETHER they are caught up to meet the Lord IN THE AIR and CLOUDS.

When studying this section of scripture we must see that Paul is not laying forth the doctrine of the Rapture. That Paul did in his short 3-week stay in Thessaloniki in Acts Chapter 17. What Paul is teaching is a correction for the saints in Thessaloniki. They had embraced the teaching of the Rapture, but in the interim, some of them had died. Those left alive thought that the dead would miss the Rapture. Paul says, NO! The dead Christians will not be disadvantaged by death. They would rise from Hades under the earth, take up their glorious bodies on the surface of the earth. There, they would meet the living saints who would be changed in a blink of an eye (1st Cor.15:51-52) into their glorious bodies. Then TOGETHER they would be caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds.

So what then means verse 14? Verse 14 is an answer to "ignorance" that Christ will be in the company of the dead saints BECAUSE of the Rapture. It reads, 13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, ... 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him." What were the saints "ignorant" about? They were ignorant of the fact that both Enoch and Zechariah prophesied that that Lord would return in the company of His saints (Zech.14:5; Jude 14). And this is made possible by RESURRECTION - "even so" just like the Lord. Verses 15 to 17 TELL HOW this will happen seeing as the dead are in Hades under the earth. The text ends with a solution to their "sorrowing" - comfort! 14 "... that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope ... 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Now, what shall we say to the doctrine of going to heaven when we die? In 313 AD, the Roman Emperor, Constantine, with his empire all but collapsed, made Christianity a State religion. He had learned that the more Christians you kill, the more they sprout up. So his plan was to "leaven" Christianity as Matthew 13 predicted. Christians made up less than 5% of the population, so what he did was keep all the pagan doctrines, but give them names from the Bible. Christmas, Easter, Halloween, the Queen of Heaven and many pagan feasts and concepts were just given Christian names and connected to the Bible. One of the doctrines was that at death a man was weighed in the scales of justice (a sign that we still use for our courts of law today). If he was found to have done more good than evil, he went to a "celestial lodge" among the stars (which they worshiped). If his evil outweighed the good, he went to a furnace under the earth. This doctrine has permeated Christianity since about 500 AD.

To keep the posting short, let us not enter into all the arguments and counter-arguments for this doctrine. It takes a few A4 pages to do that. Let us just see that God's Kingdom is for the earth, not heaven, and thus, our Lord Jesus COMES TO EARTH TO REIGN.
  • In Genesis 1:26-28 God's plan with man is for the EARTH
  • This is confirmed in Psalm 8 and Hebrews 2
  • God promised Abraham and his seed (his offspring) a piece of EARTH - Canaan (Genesis 12, 15 & 17)
  • God enlarged this promise to Abraham to the WHOLE EARTH (Rom.4:13)
  • Christians are made seed of Abraham via Jesus Christ (Gal.3:29)
  • The prophecies of Daniel show God setting up His Kingdom in PLACE of the Gentile kingdoms - the EARTH
  • The prophecies of John in Revelation show Christ ruling ON EARTH
  • The prophecies of Isaiah and Zechariah, and more, show Christ ruling from Jerusalem
  • The meek will inherit the earth
  • The overcomers will be kings over cities of the earth (Lk.19:17-19)
  • The New Earth will be ruled by New Jerusalem "coming down from heaven" (Rev.21:2, 22:5)
  • It is "The Kingdom OF Heaven", not "The Kingdom IN Heaven". "OF" means "FROM", or "OUT OF"
  • Christ comes to EARTH at His second coming (Zech.14:4, Act.1:11)
  • The survivors of Armageddon must go up to Jerusalem to worship Christ once a year (Zech.14:16)
I think that the evidence is overwhelming.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,546
4,669
113
#6
I DON'T BELIEVE THE MILLENIUM WILL BE ON EARTH, BUT RATHER, UP IN HEAVEN
Since Heaven does not need a Millennium, that is rather absurd statement. It is the earth that needs to have the Kingdom of God established on it. The Millennium is just the start of the everlasting Kingdom of God on earth.

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. (Dan 7:13,14).
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
767
96
28
#7
I DON'T BELIEVE THE MILLENIUM WILL BE ON EARTH, BUT RATHER, UP IN HEAVEN
Some Christians sincerely believe that Jesus will spend a millenium of years on earth together on earth. Though I respect their view, this is not how it looks to me in light of the scriptures on that subject, (I Thessalonians 4:16-17) that I know. ...
The Reign of 1,000 years, is the pre-eternal term of Christ's reign in Heaven (not earth), and therefore you are correct in your sentiment:

Here are the texts of Revelation 20:1-7 cited:

Revelation 20:1 - And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Revelation 20:2 - And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Revelation 20:3 - And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:4 - And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 - But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 - Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:7 - And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Please notice, that in these texts [Revelation 20:1-7], there is no where written that either Jesus, or the “saints” (or “satan” for that matter), shall “reign upon the earth” for 1,000 years, but simply says [vss. 4,6] that Jesus and the saints reigned “a thousand years”. The location of this 1,000 reign is nowhere stated to be “upon the earth” in these, or any passages of scripture [KJB].

Revelation 20:1 refers to Jesus coming “down” from Heaven but not touching the sin polluted earth, which connects to 1 Thessalonians 4:16 in its “descend from Heaven”. Revelation 20:6 speaks of the “first resurrection”, which is connected to 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, in its “the dead in Christ shall rise first” and “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”, which ties into John 14:1-4.

One should very carefully look for themselves. It also is very clearly written that “satan” himself was not reigning during this “thousand years”, but is “bound” and “shut … up” with a “seal” placed “upon him”.

The phrase “the day of the Lord” [Isaiah 2:12, 13:6,9, 34:8; Jeremiah 46:10; Lamentations 2:22; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31, 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 1:15; Zephaniah 1:7,8,14,18, 2:2,3; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi 4:5; Acts 2:20; 1 Corinthians 5:5; 2 Corinthians 1:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Peter 3:10], is a direct reference to the “thousand years” [Revelation 20:2,3,4,5,6,7, see also Isaiah 24:22, “many days”], which is the final “day”, the 7th day – the great Sabbath, of the great week “with the Lord” [2 Peter 3:8].

The second Advent of Jesus Christ, wherein the “saints” are “caught up together … in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air” [1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Revelation 20:1-6] is but the beginning of the “thousand years” or “the day of the Lord”, while the third Advent of Jesus Christ [Zechariah 14:1-21; Revelation 20:7-10] is the ending of the “thousand years” or “the day of the Lord”, after which the finally impenitent shall be utterly destroyed in the second death, and finally the “New Heavens” and the “New Earth” are recreated [Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1] which the “meek shall inherit”.

Revelation 19-22, is parallel to Isaiah 24, and so also connected to Leviticus 16:1-34, 23:26-32 .

The location of this “reign” of Jesus and the saints, for “a thousand years” is never said to be on the plague wracked, utterly sin polluted and totally cursed and devastated “earth”, wherein even the upper heaven [atmosphere] is burned away by the second Advent [Genesis 3:17, 5:29, 8:21; Isaiah 34:4; 2 Peter 3:10-12; Revelation 6:14; 11:19, 15:1,6,8, 16:9,17-21, 18:4,8 21:9, 22:18]. So likewise for the passages of “Isaiah 2, 11, 65; Amos 9; Zechariah 14”. Read prayerfully and carefully for oneself. Where then is the “thousand year” reign of Jesus and the saints to be? It is to be in Heaven, the “third” [2 Corinthians 12:2].

Notice Isaiah 2:4 in which it speaks of, “... they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.” That is the earth “made new”, wherein it is said in Revelation 21:4, “And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.” The earth is not “made new” until after the 1,000 years, not before.

Notice Isaiah 11:4-10, in which the complete destruction of the wicked takes place first (as in Revelation 20:9-10, 11-15), and then follows the statements about the New Heaven and New Earth, which comes after the 1,000 years, see Isaiah 11:9, “They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.” See Isaiah 11:6-8 and compare to Isaiah 65:20-25, 66:22-23. See that Isaiah 66:16 and its events, the destruction of the wicked in entirety, come before those other events, which take place in the earth “made new”.

Notice Amos 9:14-15 in which the events, “... they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them.”, and of the planting and building are in the earth “made new”, after the events of the destruction of the wicked in Amos 9:8, which does not take place until after the 1,000 years as Isaiah 24 and Revelation 20 (and other places) show.

Notice Zechariah 14 carefully, and see that this is not referring to the Second Advent (the beginning of the 1,000 years), wherein the “saints” are “caught up” to “meet the Lord in the air” (1 Thessalonians 4:17), as also John 14:3 says, “... I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”, but refers to the Third Advent, wherein the Lord Jesus comes “down” and touches the sin polluted earth, along with the saints and New Jerusalem on the Mount of Olives, as in Revelation 20, at the ending of the 1,000 years, and thus metes out judgment, executing all the wicked, and recreating the heavens and earth. See Zechariah 14:12-13,21 in connection to Revelation 20:9-10,11-15.

The “reign upon the earth” comes after 1,000 years [Revelation 20:2,3,4,5,6,7], for the “saints” must be both resurrected and/or translated, glorified, and brought back to Heaven [John 14:1-4; 1 Thessalonians 4:17, etc] at the Second Advent and First Great Resurrection, to “reign” in Heaven, for 1,000 years [Revelation 20:4,5a,6] going over the record books of the lost [1 Corinthians 6:2,3; Psalms 149:1-9]:

[1] The “thousand years” reign “in Heaven” [Psalms 50:5; Matthew 5:3,8,10,12, 6:20, 13:30, 24:31; Mark 10:21, 13:27; Luke 6:23, 18:22, 23:43; John 14:2-3, 17:24; Colossians 1:5; Hebrews 10:34; 1 Peter 1:4; Revelation 7:9, 14:3, 19:1; “Paradise”, Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4; Revelation 2:7] with Christ Jesus [1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Revelation 20:6] and​
[2] The “reign on earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth; 2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; Revelation 21:1] that lasts “forever and ever” [Revelation 5:10; “meek inherit earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth], Psalms 37:9,11,34; Proverbs 11:31; Isaiah 25:8, 65:21; Daniel 7:27; Matthew 5:5; Revelation 5:10].​

As for the word "bottomless pit", as found in the GNT TR of Revelation 9:1,2,11, 11:7, 17:8, 20:1, it is the Koine Greek "αβυσσου" [abussou, or abyssou], in GNT TR of Revelation 20:3, it is again "αβυσσον" [abusson, or abysson], which in the transliterated English is the word "abyss", which according to the first use in Genesis, means the "deep", being in "darkness", and "without form and void [empty of/having no life]", thus is associated with a dark chaotic wilderness/desert [water or earth], symbolic of death/no life.

All texts will be given upon request, and in some instances without request.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
May 19, 2020
840
138
43
#8
Since Heaven does not need a Millennium, that is rather absurd statement. It is the earth that needs to have the Kingdom of God established on it. The Millennium is just the start of the everlasting Kingdom of God on earth.

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. (Dan 7:13,14).
There will be no future 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth, where the eternal glorified Jesus Christ sits on a earthly throne, with mortal humans running around, a Big "Fairy Tale"!

Jesus Christ returns in fire and final judgement :)

Immediately after the tribulation, as the resurrection of all takes place, as the living believers are raptured/caught up, as this existing earth is "DISSOLVED" by the Lords fire in final judgement, as the New Heavens, Earth, And Jerusalem are revealed for eternity, all in the twinkling of an eye.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance
on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved
, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
 

WithinReason

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Feb 21, 2020
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#9
The confusion comes from two directions.
  1. First, most of Christianity believes that dead Christians go to heaven when they die.
  2. This seems to be confirmed by verse 14 which says that Christ will bring them with Him when He comes
The first error is spiritualism.

The second error comes from a misunderstanding of the textual words. Jesus brings them (resurrected and translated) from their resurrection and translation from earth back to the Father in Heaven (He remains in Heaven, waiting at the gates, and does not come with the Son). In other words, back to Heaven (John 14:1-4), not coming from Heaven.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.​
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.​
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:​
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.​

Psalms 24 is going to repeat. It was sung once at the resurrection of the Head (Jesus Christ) and His ascension with the firstfruits, and shall be again in the great harvest. Type and anti-type.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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#10
...
2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved
, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Please be careful with 2 Peter 3, in that it shows two major phases of "the Day of the LORD" (1,000 years long). The first portion, the beginning thereof, shows the "heavens shall pass away with a great noise", which refers to the Second Advent at the beginning of the 1,000 years, see:

Rev_6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.​

And the latter portion, "all these things shall be dissolved", refers to the end of the 1,000 years, in Revelation 20, Zechariah 14, etc:
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.​

At Jesus Second advent the wicked are destroyed by the "brightness of His coming" (2 Thessalonians 2:8), and the wicked then living are truly laid low, but satan and his devils will remain on earth, trapped, even though the cities are all broken down and there are no more animals, or humans alive for 1,000 years (Jeremiah 4:23-28, etc).

Yet the entire earth will not be "dissolved" (works burned up) until at the end of the 1,000 years, or the ending of "the Day of the LORD". In other words, everything will be reduced to ashes, including satan and his devils at that time (Malachi 4:3; Ezekiel 28:19).



 

Corban

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Jun 11, 2020
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#12
The first error is spiritualism.

The second error comes from a misunderstanding of the textual words. Jesus brings them (resurrected and translated) from their resurrection and translation from earth back to the Father in Heaven (He remains in Heaven, waiting at the gates, and does not come with the Son). In other words, back to Heaven (John 14:1-4), not coming from Heaven.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.​
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.​
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:​
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.​

Psalms 24 is going to repeat. It was sung once at the resurrection of the Head (Jesus Christ) and His ascension with the firstfruits, and shall be again in the great harvest. Type and anti-type.
In a rebuttal, two things are required. One is to show the arguments of the opponent wrong. The second is to show the correct argument. You have not shown my statements to be wrong, and you provided only John 14:1-4 as proof that our Lord stays in heaven. I will let my previous arguments stand, as you too have let them, and show your understanding of John 14:1-4 to be in need of reconsideration.

The Father's House is NOT heaven. Even though He dwells there, it is never designated as His House. It is designated as His THRONE. God's HOUSE is in scripture is:
  1. The Tabernacle of the Wilderness (Josh.6:24; 1st Sam.1:7 etc.)
  2. Solomon's Temple (1st Ki.6:1)
  3. Zerubbabel's Temple (Jn.2:16)
  4. Christ's Body (Jn.2:21)
  5. The Church (1st Tim.3:15)
In this House are many "abodes" (lit. Gk.). The many "abodes" in the Father's House are the Christians. When our Lord said that He was going away to prepare a place, He also said that He would return and "in that day" the disciples would be were He was at that time. Note the present tense in verse 3. That is, the disciples would, "on that day" be in the same place that our Lord was at that very moment. Where He was at that very moment is given by Him in verse 11, "Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: ... ." And this were the disciples would be on that day that He RETURNED in verse 20, "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." That is how the "many abodes" are filled, and the many abodes are prepared by Christ's death and resurrection.

Now we check to see if this is what came to pass. And so it is. Christ dies and goes to Hades in the "heart of the earth" (Matt.12:40, Eph.4:8-9). On resurrection morning He meets Mary and says; "Do not touch me for I am not YET ascended to my Father" (Jn.20:17). But that night, Jesus appears to His disciples and says "touch me and handle me" (Lk.24:39). So it is clear that our Lord Jesus ascended to the Father that day AND RETURNED. And when He returned, He breathed the Holy Spirit into His disciples and they became the many "abodes" in the House of God - the Church.

The gospel of John is not about getting men to heaven. It is all about getting God into man so that the House of God may be build ON EARTH. John's introduction to His gospel in Chapter 1 is how "Bethel" is achieved. "Bethel" means - the House of God.
 

birdie

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Sep 16, 2014
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#13
I DON'T BELIEVE THE MILLENIUM WILL BE ON EARTH, BUT RATHER, UP IN HEAVEN
Some Christians sincerely believe that Jesus will spend a millenium of years on earth together on earth. Though I respect their view, this is not how it looks to me in light of the scriptures on that subject, (I Thessalonians 4:16-17) that I know. I also believe that according to Bible numerology teachings, that both 10 and the multiple of 10, symbolically refer to a complete number. I don't believe it means an exact number, but more likely, just a rounded off number, in some cases. And when it refers to eternity in heaven, it is numberless as it is eternity. And in other cases, it just refers to a great, total number of something. Such as the 144,000 (number created by multiplying 12 by 12 by 1000) people of all nations in heaven, after the rapture - Revelation 7:4; 14:1 & 3; and chapter 21
If you'd like to study Bible numerology, go to this link I found:
https://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/meaning-of-numbers-in-bible/10000.html
Below, I copied their mention of various places in the Bible where the number 10,000 is used:
The Meaning of Numbers: The Number 10,000
The number 10,000 derives part of its Bible meaning from the fact that it is sometimes used to denote a group that is innumerable or countless (see Paul and Revelation's use below). It also has a relationship with several Judges of Israel.
Haman, Prime Minister of Persia, was willing to pay the empire's king 10,000 talents of silver (worth around $180 million today) to defray the cost of murdering all the Jews in the kingdom (Esther 3:9)!
Deborah, a prophetess who was Israel's Judge, summons a man named Barak. Inspired by God, she charges him with gathering 10,000 men to fight King Jabin's army in order to free Israel of his twenty-year oppression (Judges 4:1 - 7, 14). Barak agrees to lead the army into battle only if Deborah comes with him (verse 8). After Israel defeats their oppressor the people enjoy forty years of peace (5:31).
Gideon is called by God to free his people from Midianite domination. He sends messengers to four Israelite tribes asking men to volunteer to fight Midian (Judges 6:1 - 35).
About 32,000 men come to Gideon, far more than God is willing to use to defeat the enemy. Those who are afraid or fearful are told to go back home, leaving an army of ten thousand (Judges 7:2 - 3). The army is still too large for the Eternal, and it is ultimately whittled down to only 300 before it can win a mighty victory (verses 4 - 7).
God called Ehud, a rare left-handed warrior, to save his people from the oppression of the Moabites (Judges 3:12 - 15). After killing Eglon, Moab's king, Ehud rallies the Israelites to fight against their enemies. The King James Bible then states something odd about the Moabites who were killed.
And they (the Israelites) slew of Moab at that time about ten thousand men, ALL LUSTY, and all men of valor; and there escaped not a man (Judges 3:29, KJV).
Paul's use of the number 10,000
Paul loved the church at Corinth in spite of their many difficulties and the tremendous effort he expended on their behalf. He expressed his special spiritual relationship with them using 10,000.
For you might have ten thousand tutors in Christ, but you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I did beget you through the gospel (1Corinthians 4:15).
Apostle Paul, several chapters later, again uses 10,000 to illustrate a point. He utilizes it to show the overwhelming importance of speaking words that others can understand versus the overrated gift of speaking in tongues (other languages).
But in the church, I desire to speak five words with my understanding rather than ten thousand words in an unknown language, so that I may also instruct others (1Corinthians 14:19).
In the Bible, 10,000 is used in its last book to describe the vast quantity of righteous spirit beings that surround the Eternal's throne. If taken literally, the verse in question is likely delineating the largest number recorded in God's word!
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands (Revelation 5:11, KJV).
Thanks Myrtle Trees, for your input. I like that you notice that numbers, like other words in the Bible (that are not numbers), have a parable or representational meaning rather than a surface meaning. The Bible is written this way. In Psalm 78:2, we read that God opens his mouth in a parable. The way that God opens his mouth is the Bible. It is written in parable form. We read in Mark 34 that without a parable God does not speak unto them. In other words, when he speaks in the Bible it is in parable form, with representational words.

I also like that you notice that 1 Thes 4:17 mentions that we meet the Lord in the air. The air is a parable word in the Bible. It's meaning is heaven. We see this in the parable of the kingdom of heaven (Mat 13:31-32) in which the birds of the air lodge in branches. The birds are pictures of true believers and the term air is used to describe that they are of heaven.

When it comes to the notion of Millennial Reign, however, most people are not looking at 1 Thes 4:17 to get that theory. The Millennial Reign idea comes mostly from Revelation chapter 20. In that chapter an angel comes down from heaven and binds Satan. That angel (meaning messenger) is Jesus. He is the one who has the ability to bind Satan. This was accomplished when Jesus came to earth and died on the cross and rose again giving the Holy Spirit to create a new bunch of born again persons. That is why Chapter 20 says that there is a seal placed on Satan. The seal is the Holy Spirit. As long as the Holy Spirit is there he cannot deceive true believers from believing on Christ unto salvation. We find that when Christ comes to earth he binds Satan for a thousand years. While the thousand years mentioned is a parable word with a representational meaning, it seems that the verse is describing that time period following Christ's coming to the earth to go to the cross to give the Holy Spirit. Again, the Holy Spirit is what binds Satan so that he cannot deceive true believers. We also see thrones mentioned in Rev 20. This is because once a person is born again they are seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, ruling and reigning with him. They are reigning spiritually, not like you imagine an earthly monarch sitting on a throne giving out self-serving orders. Rather, even if they are of little consequence in the flesh, they are ruling in spiritual places. We find that those who take part in Christ's resurrection are blessed and holy and the second death has no power, meaning they have been given eternal life.
 

Kolistus

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Feb 3, 2020
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#14
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. (Dan 7:13,14).
Notice in these verses Jesus isnt coming down, but going up to the Father. "came to the Ancient of Days".
 

WithinReason

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#15
The Father's House is NOT heaven. Even though He dwells there, it is never designated as His House.
Isa_40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Joh_14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
 

tourist

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Mar 13, 2014
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#16
Isa_40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Joh_14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Jesus is coming back for me one day. I going to get a deluxe apartment in the sky and finally get a piece of the pie.
 

WithinReason

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#17
Christ dies and goes to Hades in the "heart of the earth" (Matt.12:40, Eph.4:8-9).
There is not a single place in scripture which states that "the heart of the earth" is "hades".


How many times, in these passages [Matthew 12:38-45, 16:1-12; Luke 11:14-32 KJB], or in all of Scripture [KJB], is the specific phrase, “in the heart of the earth” or “heart of the earth” found/used?

Only once! Anyone may do a word study or search by any known method and see this.
Matthew 12:40 KJB - For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

However, a like [similar] phrase is found in Genesis, Exodus, Psalms, Isaiah and Daniel, wherein the word “midst” [OT; [Hebrew] H7130 “קרב”, “qereb”; [Syriac] H1459 “גּו”, “gav”] is used in the place of “heart” [NT]:

Genesis 48:16 KJB - The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.​
Exodus 8:22 KJB - And I will sever in that day the land of Goshen, in which my people dwell, that no swarms of flies shall be there; to the end thou mayest know that I am the LORD in the midst of the earth.​
Psalms 74:12 KJB - For God is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth.​
Isaiah 5:8 KJB - Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth!​
Daniel 4:10 KJB - Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.​

The phrase “in the midst” is used in the scripture [KJB] in various contexts, generally meaning, 'amongst', 'in the middle' and/or 'in the center' of.

The phrase “in the midst of the earth” is not the same as the phrases, “the face of the earth”, “the fatness of the earth”, “the breadth of the earth”, “the end/s of the earth”, “the uttermost part/s of the earth”, “the utmost parts of the earth”, “four corners of the earth”, “the depths of the earth”, “the deep places of the earth”, “the low[er] parts of the earth”, “the lowest parts of the earth”, “out of the earth”, “[dens and] caves of the earth”, “nether parts of the earth”, “the high places of the earth”, “borders of the earth”, “sides of the earth”, “coasts of the earth”, “dark place/s of the earth”, “foundation/s of the earth”, “circle of the earth”, etc., and this may be known by a simple process of substitution of phrase.

Additional consideration to this question, being a result of prayerful and careful search, reveals that there also no specific connection in Scripture [KJB], in any location, which relates that this term/phraseology “in the heart of the earth” means specifically/only, “in the grave/tomb/sepulchre”.

We can also directly see that there is the equative [the ways of the LORD being “equal” [Ezekiel 18:25,29 KJB], having a “just” [Proverbs 11:1, 16:11 KJB] balance] or parallel in the passage:

Matthew 12:40 KJB - For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.​

This means there is an equative or parallel being made by Jesus to the terms:

[A1] “For as …”
[A2] “... so ...”
[B1] “... Jonas ...”
[B2] “... the Son of man ...”
[C1] “... was ...” [past tense, historical-typological-natural]​
[C2] “... shall … be ...” [future tense, antitypological-prophetic]​
[D1] “... three days and three nights ...”
[D2] “... three days and three nights ...”
[E1] “... in ...”
[E2] “... in ...”
[F1] “... the whale's belly ...”
[F2] “... the heart of the earth.”

There is nowhere in Scripture [KJB] which specifically relates the term/phraseology “in the whale's belly” to means specifically/only, “in the grave/tomb/sepulchre” either.
 

WithinReason

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Feb 21, 2020
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#18
Christ dies and goes to Hades in the "heart of the earth" (Matt.12:40, Eph.4:8-9).
There is not a single place in scripture which states that "the heart of the earth" is "hades".

[E] What is the specific Koine Greek word used in the underlying Greek texts [TR, Majority, Byzantine, etc], that is translated into the KJB English word “heart”, in the phrase “heart of the earth” [Matthew 12:40 KJB]?

Subnote: Jesus, the Word [John 1:1-3 KJB, etc.], is the “Alpha” and the “Omega” of the Koine Greek, and therefore, the single most important and all encompassing aspect, truly the first and the last, the beginning and ending, of all 'the Greek' anyone ever has to “know” [John 17:3 KJB]. Some study all their lives to know a dead language [sounds a little like necromancy, 'dead speaking'] thinking that they will find the secrets to life therein, and they miss knowing the risen and living Saviour, the person who is Eternal Life - the Word [John 5:39 KJB]. The same goes for the ancient Hebrew language, when in fact, those seeking to have wisdom, should come to The Hebrew – Jesus Christ.

Matthew 12:40 KJB - For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.​
Matthew 12:40 GNT-TR - ωσπερ γαρ ην ιωνας εν τη κοιλια του κητους τρεις ημερας και τρεις νυκτας ουτως εσται ο υιος του ανθρωπου εν τη καρδια της γης τρεις ημερας και τρεις νυκτας​
Matthew 12:40 GNT-TR+ [with KJ Concordance Numbers & Robinson's Morphological Analysis Codes] - ωσπερG5618 ADV γαρG1063 CONJ ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S ιωναςG2495 N-NSM ενG1722 PREP τηG3588 T-DSF κοιλιαG2836 N-DSF τουG3588 T-GSN κητουςG2785 N-GSN τρειςG5140 A-APF ημεραςG2250 N-APF καιG2532 CONJ τρειςG5140 A-APF νυκταςG3571 N-APF ουτωςG3779 ADV εσταιG1510 V-FDI-3S οG3588 T-NSM υιοςG5207 N-NSM τουG3588 T-GSM ανθρωπουG444 N-GSM ενG1722 PREP τηG3588 T-DSF καρδιαG2588 N-DSF τηςG3588 T-GSF γηςG1093 N-GSF τρειςG5140 A-APF ημεραςG2250 N-APF καιG2532 CONJ τρειςG5140 A-APF νυκταςG3571 N-APF​

One may peruse the following link if they are so inclined -
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G2588&t=KJV
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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#19
Christ dies and goes to Hades in the "heart of the earth" (Matt.12:40, Eph.4:8-9).
There is not a single place in scripture which states that "the heart of the earth" is "hades".

[E] What is the specific Koine Greek word used in the underlying Greek texts [TR, Majority, Byzantine, etc], that is translated into the KJB English word “heart”, in the phrase “heart of the earth” [Matthew 12:40 KJB]?

G2588:

The Koine Greek: καρδιαThe Transliterated Koine Greek: kardia

This word is variously translated in the King James Bible as [according to the E-Sword King James Concordance]:

Total KJB Occurrences: 161

heart, 102

Matthew5:8,28, 6:21, 11:29, 12:34-35 (2),40, 13:15 (2),19, 15:8,18-19 (2), 22:37, 24:48; Mark 6:52, 7:6,19,21, 8:17, 11:23, 12:30,33; Luke 2:19,51, 6:45 (3), 8:15, 9:47, 10:27, 12:34,45, 24:25,32; John 12:40 (2), 13:2, 14:1,27, 16:6,22; Acts 2:26,37,46, 4:32, 5:3-4 (2),33, 7:23,51,54, 8:21-22 (2),37, 11:23, 13:22, 16:14, 21:13, 28:27 (2); Romans1:21, 2:5,29, 6:17, 9:2, 10:6,8-10 (3); 1 Corinthians2:9, 7:37 (2), 14:25; 2 Corinthians 2:4, 3:3,15, 5:12, 6:11, 8:16, 9:7; Ephesians 5:18-19 (2), 6:5; Philippians1:7; Colossians 3:22; 1 Thessalonians 2:17; 1 Timothy 1:5; 2 Timothy 2:22; Hebrews 3:10, 4:12 (2), 10:22, 13:9; James 1:26; 1 Peter 1:22, 3:4; 2 Peter 2:14; 1 John 3:20-21 (3); Revelation18:7

hearts, 57

Matthew9:4, 18:35; Mark 2:6,8, 3:5, 4:15; Luke1:17,51,66, 2:35, 3:15, 5:22, 8:12, 16:15, 21:14,34; Acts7:38-39 (2), 14:17, 15:9; Romans 1:24, 2:15, 5:5, 8:27, 16:18; 1 Corinthians 4:5; 2 Corinthians 1:22, 3:2, 4:6, 7:3; Galatians 4:6; Ephesians 3:17, 6:22; Philippians 4:7; Colossians 2:2, 3:15-16 (2), 4:8; 1 Thessalonians 2:4, 3:13; 2 Thessalonians 2:17, 3:5; Hebrews 3:8,15, 4:7, 8:10, 10:16,22; James3:14, 4:8, 5:5,8; 1 Peter 3:15; 2 Peter 1:19; 1 John 3:19; Revelation 2:23, 17:17

brokenhearted, 1

Luke4:17-18 (2)

heart’s, 1

Romans10:1

In Matthew 12:40 GNT-TR the word “καρδια”, “kardia” and is in the form “N-DSF”:

N-DSF”-

Part of Speech: Noun
Case: Dative
Number: Singular
Gender: Feminine

This same exact form [N-DSF] of the Greek word is found in many other GNT-TR texts:

Matthew5:8,28, 11:29, 12:40, 13:15,19, 22:37, 24:48; Mark11:23; Luke1:66, 2:19,51, 8:15, 12:45, 24:25,38; John12:40; Acts2:37, 5:4, 7:39,51, 28:27; Romans9:2, 10:6,8,9,10; 1 Corinthians7:37; 2 Corinthians5:12, 8:16, 9:7; Ephesians5:19; Philippians1:7; Colossians3:16; 1 Thessalonians2:17; Hebrews3:10; James3:14; Revelation18:7

Jesus uses this word in the very context of Matthew 12:40 KJB:

Matthew 12:34 KJB - O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.​
Matthew 12:35 KJB - A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.​

Jesus also uses this word in other similar contexts:

Matthew 13:15 KJB - For this people's heart is waxed gross, and theirears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see withtheireyes, and hear withtheirears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.​

In Matthew 13:15 GNT-TR, the word “καρδια”is in the same form [N-DSF]:

Matthew 13:15 GNT-TR - επαχυνθη γαρ η καρδια του λαου τουτου και τοις ωσιν βαρεως ηκουσαν και τους οφθαλμους αυτων εκαμμυσαν μηποτε ιδωσιν τοις οφθαλμοις και τοις ωσιν ακουσωσιν και τη καρδια συνωσιν και επιστρεψωσιν και ιασωμαι αυτους​
Matthew 13:15 GNT-TR+ [with KJ Concordance Numbers & Robinson's Morphological Analysis Codes] - επαχυνθηG3975 V-API-3S γαρG1063 CONJ ηG3588 T-NSF καρδιαG2588 N-NSFτουG3588 T-GSM λαουG2992 N-GSM τουτουG3778 D-GSM καιG2532 CONJ τοιςG3588 T-DPN ωσινG3775 N-DPN βαρεωςG917 ADV ηκουσανG191 V-AAI-3P καιG2532 CONJ τουςG3588 T-APM οφθαλμουςG3788 N-APM αυτωνG846 P-GPM εκαμμυσανG2576 V-AAI-3P μηποτεG3379 ADV-N ιδωσινG3708 V-2AAS-3P τοιςG3588 T-DPM οφθαλμοιςG3788 N-DPM καιG2532 CONJ τοιςG3588 T-DPN ωσινG3775 N-DPN ακουσωσινG191 V-AAS-3P καιG2532 CONJ τηG3588 T-DSF καρδιαG2588 N-DSFσυνωσινG4920 V-2AAS-3P καιG2532 CONJ επιστρεψωσινG1994 V-AAS-3P καιG2532 CONJ ιασωμαιG2390 V-ADS-1S αυτουςG846 P-APM​
Mark 2:8 KJB - And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?​

In Mark 2:8 GNT-TR, the word “καρδιαις”is in the plural form [N-DPF]:

Mark 2:8 GNT-TR - και ευθεως επιγνους ο ιησους τω πνευματι αυτου οτι ουτως διαλογιζονται εν εαυτοις ειπεν αυτοις τι ταυτα διαλογιζεσθε εν ταις καρδιαις υμων​
Mark 2:8 GNT-TR+ [with KJ Concordance Numbers & Robinson's Morphological Analysis Codes] - καιG2532 CONJ ευθεωςG2112 ADV επιγνουςG1921 V-2AAP-NSM οG3588 T-NSM ιησουςG2424 N-NSM τωG3588 T-DSN πνευματιG4151 N-DSN αυτουG846 P-GSM οτιG3754 CONJ ουτωςG3779 ADV διαλογιζονταιG1260 V-PNI-3P ενG1722 PREP εαυτοιςG1438 F-3DPM ειπενG3004 V-2AAI-3S αυτοιςG846 P-DPM τιG5101 I-ASN ταυταG3778 D-APN διαλογιζεσθεG1260 V-PNI-2P ενG1722 PREP ταιςG3588 T-DPF καρδιαιςG2588 N-DPFυμωνG4771 P-2GP​

The “heart” then, is that which is the inward thoughts and emotions.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
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#20
Christ dies and goes to Hades in the "heart of the earth" (Matt.12:40, Eph.4:8-9).
There is not a single place in scripture which states that "the heart of the earth" is "hades".

For those interested in the Strong's Concordance personal definition [Concordances, Lexicons and Dictionaries can be used [generally] for 'finding' words in the KJB, but should not [generally] be used to 'define' those words, since scripture [KJB] defines itself [Isaiah 8:20, 28:10,13; 1 Corinthians 2:13, etc.]:

“Prolonged from a primary κάρ kar (Latin cor, “heart”); the heart, that is, (figuratively) the thoughts or feelings (mind); also (by analogy) the middle: - (+ broken-) heart (-ed).”

This same Koine Greek word can also be seen in the (so-called*) LXX [Septuagint], looking at the first [Alpha] use, which is in the very same 'form' [N-DSF] as the use in Matthew 12:40 GNT-TR:

Genesis 6:5 LXX Greek - Ἰδὼν δὲ κύριος ὁ θεὸς ὅτι ἐπληθύνθησαν αἱ κακίαι τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς καὶ πᾶς τις διανοεῖται ἐν τῇ καρδίᾳαὐτοῦ ἐπιμελῶς ἐπὶ τὰ πονηρὰ πάσας τὰς ἡμέρας,​
Genesis 6:5 LXX Greek with Strong's #'s and Robinson's Morphological Analysis Codes - ιδωνG3708 V-AAPNS δεG1161 PRT κυριοςG2962 N-NSM οG3588 T-NSM θεοςG2316 N-NSM οτιG3754 CONJ επληθυνθησανG4129 V-API-3P αιG3588 T-NPF κακιαιG2549 N-NPF τωνG3588 T-GPM ανθρωπωνG444 N-GPM επιG1909 PREP τηςG3588 T-GSF γηςG1065 N-GSF καιG2532 CONJ παςG3956 A-NSM τιςG5100 I-NSM διανοειταιV-PMI-3S ενG1722 PREP τηG3588 T-DSF καρδιαG2588 N-DSF αυτουG846 D-GSM επιμελωςG1960 ADV επιG1909 PREP ταG3588 T-APN πονηραG4190 A-APN πασαςG3956 A-APF ταςG3588 T-APF ημεραςG2250 N-APF​
Genesis 6:5 KJB - And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.​
Genesis 6:5 Hebrew Text with Strong's numbers – ויראH7200 יהוהH3068 כיH3588 רבהH7227 רעתH7451 האדםH120 בארץH776 וכלH3605 יצרH3336 מחשׁבתH4284 לבוH3820רקH7535 רעH7451 כלH3605 היום׃H3117​
The Hebrew H3820:

H3820

The Hebrew:לֵב The Transliterated Hebrew: lêb, labe

Total KJB Occurrences: 595

heart, 485

Genesis6:5-6 (2), 8:21 (2), 17:17, 24:45, 27:41, 42:28, 45:26; Exodus4:14,21, 7:3,13-14 (2),22-23 (2), 8:15,19,32, 9:7,12,14,34-35 (2), 10:1 (2),20,27, 11:10, 14:4, 15:8 (2), 25:2, 28:29-30 (3), 35:5,21,26,29,34-35 (2), 36:2 (2); Numbers32:7,9; Deuteronomy28:65, 29:4,19; Judges5:8-9 (2),15-16 (2), 16:15,17-18 (3), 18:20; Ruth3:5-7 (3); 1 Samuel1:13, 2:1, 4:13, 10:9, 17:32, 24:5, 25:31,36-37 (2), 27:1, 28:5; 2 Samuel6:16, 7:21, 13:27-28 (2),33, 14:1, 17:10 (2), 18:14, 19:19, 24:10; 1 Kings3:9,12, 4:29, 10:24, 11:3, 12:26-27 (2),33, 18:37, 21:7; 2 Kings 5:26, 6:11, 9:24, 12:4, 14:10, 23:3; 1 Chronicles12:33,38, 15:29, 16:10, 17:19,25, 29:9 (2); 2 Chronicles 6:38, 7:10-11 (2),16, 9:23, 12:14, 17:6, 25:19, 26:16, 29:31, 30:12, 32:25-26 (2); Ezra6:22, 7:27; Nehemiah2:2,12, 6:8, 7:5; Esther1:10, 5:9, 6:6, 7:5; Job7:17, 8:10, 11:13, 12:24, 15:12, 17:4, 23:16, 29:13, 31:7,9,27, 33:3, 34:14, 36:13, 37:1, 41:24 (2); Psalms4:7, 7:10, 9:1, 10:6,11,13,17, 12:2 (2), 13:5, 14:1, 16:9, 17:3, 19:8, 22:14 (2), 27:2-3 (2),8,14, 28:7 (2), 33:11 (2),21, 34:18, 36:1,10, 37:4,15,31, 38:8,10, 39:3, 40:10,12, 41:6, 44:18,21, 45:1,5, 49:3, 51:10,17, 53:1, 55:4,21, 57:7 (2), 61:2 (2), 62:10, 64:6,10, 66:18, 69:20, 78:8,37, 84:2, 94:15, 97:11, 101:4, 105:3,25, 107:12, 108:1, 109:22, 112:7-8 (2), 140:2 (3), 143:4 (2), 147:3; Proverbs2:2,10, 3:1,3,5, 4:4,23, 5:12, 6:14,18,21, 7:3,10,25, 8:5, 10:8, 11:20 (2),29, 12:8,20,23,25, 13:12, 14:10,13-14 (2),30,33, 15:7,13-15 (4),28,30, 16:1,5,9,21,23, 17:16,20,22, 18:2,12,15, 19:3,21, 20:5,9, 21:1,4, 22:11,15,17, 23:7,12,15 (2),17,19,26,33, 24:2,17, 25:3,20, 26:23,25, 27:9,11,19, 28:14,26, 31:11; Ecclesiastes1:13,16-17 (3), 2:1,3 (2),10 (2),15 (2),20,22-23 (2), 3:11,17-18 (2), 5:2,20, 7:2-4 (4),7,22,25-26 (2), 8:5,9,11,16, 9:1,3,7, 10:2 (2); Song of Solomon 3:9-11 (4), 5:2, 8:6; Isaiah6:10, 15:5, 29:13, 32:6, 33:18, 35:4, 38:3, 42:25, 44:19-20 (2), 47:7,10, 51:7, 57:1,11,15,17, 59:13, 63:4,17, 66:14 (3); Jeremiah3:10,15,17, 4:9 (2),14,18-19 (3), 7:23-24 (2),31, 8:18, 9:14,26, 11:8,20, 12:3,11, 13:10, 14:14, 16:12, 17:1,5,9-10 (2), 18:12, 20:9,12, 22:17, 23:9,16-17 (2),20,26 (2), 24:7 (2), 30:21,24, 31:21, 32:39,41, 48:29,36 (2),41, 49:16,22 (2); Lamentations1:20,22, 2:18-19 (2), 3:65, 5:15,17; Ezekiel6:9, 11:19 (3),21 (2), 13:17,22, 14:3-5 (3),7, 18:31, 20:16, 21:7,15, 22:14, 28:2 (3),6 (2),17, 33:31, 36:26 (3), 40:4, 44:7,9; Daniel1:8, 10:12; Hosea4:11, 7:6,11,14, 10:2, 11:8, 13:6,8; Obadiah1:3 (2); Nahum2:10; Zephaniah3:14; Zechariah10:7 (2), 12:5; Malachi2:2 (2), 4:6

hearts, 21

Genesis18:5; Exodus14:17, 31:6; Joshua11:20; Judges9:3, 16:25, 19:22; 1 Samuel6:6, 10:26; 2 Samuel15:6; 2 Chronicles6:13-14 (2); Psalms33:15, 35:25, 74:8; Jeremiah31:33, 48:41; Ezekiel13:2, 32:9; Zechariah7:12, 8:17

midst, 12

Deuteronomy4:11; 2 Samuel18:14; Psalms46:2; Proverbs23:34, 30:19; Jeremiah51:1; Ezekiel27:4,25-27 (3), 28:2,8

mind, 12

Numbers16:28, 24:13; 1 Samuel9:20; Nehemiah4:6; Psalms31:12; Isaiah46:8, 65:17; Jeremiah3:16, 19:5, 32:35; Lamentations3:21 (2)

understanding, 10

Proverbs6:32, 7:7, 9:4,16, 10:13, 12:11, 15:32, 17:18, 24:30; Jeremiah 5:21

hearted, 8

Exodus28:3, 31:6, 35:10,22,25, 36:1-2 (2),8

consider, 6

Isaiah41:22; Haggai1:5,7, 2:15,18 (2)

wisdom, 6

Job36:5; Proverbs10:21, 11:12, 15:21, 19:8; Ecclesiastes10:3

comfortably, 4

2 Samuel 19:7; 2 Chronicles 30:22; Isaiah40:2; Hosea2:14

considered, 3

Job1:8, 2:3; Proverbs24:32

regard, 3

1 Samuel 4:20, 25:25; 2 Samuel 13:20

bethink, 2

1 Kings 8:47; 2 Chronicles 6:37

care, 2

2 Samuel 18:3 (2)

friendly, 2

Judges19:3 (2); Ruth2:13

kindly, 2

Genesis34:3, 50:21

stouthearted, 2

Psalms76:5; Isaiah46:12

unawares, 2

Genesis31:20,26

brokenhearted, 1

Isaiah61:1

consent, 1

Psalms83:5

courageous, 1

Amos2:16

hardhearted, 1

Ezekiel3:7

heart’s, 1

Psalms21:2

hearth, 1

Genesis18:6

hearts’, 1

Psalms81:12

heed, 1

Ecclesiastes7:21

merryhearted, 1

Isaiah24:7

minded, 1

2 Chronicles 24:4

regarded, 1

Exodus9:21

stiffhearted, 1

Ezekiel2:4

willingly, 1

Lamentations3:33