I have laid the foundation and ANOTHER BUILDETH THEREON

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Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
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#42
Do you think these to be the 144,000?
It very well could be I was never told who they are I was just lead to speak it but the 144,000 are the only ones I can think of that fit the bill.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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#43
I understand that being true for nations and kingdoms but 'DESTROYING upon the foundation of Christ', just doesn't sit right. The subject I am attempting to discuss is about the ' BUILDING up in and with the words of God. The finding of the 'here a little there a littles' and combining them with their 'BIGGER' parts to build in knowledge and wisdom of God.
I was 70 years old before I learned to build in knowledge of the kingdom of God. Before that I used the church to learn, that church believed in their doctrines. We have to believe only in the truth of the Lord.

The organized church says they believe in scripture, but they have trouble with the OT and the way Christ fulfilled it. They sometimes think that takes away that they can rely on every word of the OT as being truth from the Lord. It does not, every word in the OT is truth, and because it gives laws in stone instead of in our hearts as it was after Christ and that changes the appearance of the law, it does not change the spirit of the law.

We need the word to build on, and we must accept and know ALL the word to build. The roots movement is built on accepting the truth of the OT while tossing out the fleshly commandments of that time. They are treated as Christ was treated by the Pharisees.
 
Dec 15, 2021
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#44
I was 70 years old before I learned to build in knowledge of the kingdom of God. Before that I used the church to learn, that church believed in their doctrines. We have to believe only in the truth of the Lord.

The organized church says they believe in scripture, but they have trouble with the OT and the way Christ fulfilled it. They sometimes think that takes away that they can rely on every word of the OT as being truth from the Lord. It does not, every word in the OT is truth, and because it gives laws in stone instead of in our hearts as it was after Christ and that changes the appearance of the law, it does not change the spirit of the law.

We need the word to build on, and we must accept and know ALL the word to build. The roots movement is built on accepting the truth of the OT while tossing out the fleshly commandments of that time. They are treated as Christ was treated by the Pharisees.
Personally I don't understand the lack of OT teaching. How do you skip the school master? That's the foundation of the foundation.

I believe all the words are inspired by God and were perfect before the synagogue of Satan got close to them (Passover being translated easter? no accident).

The mystery of iniquity doeth already work and the one thing Satan knows "get them before anyone else can" because learning is easy while UNLEARNING is almost impossible as the flesh doesn't want to let go. Where would you attack? No where better than those who will be teaching in the churches, right?

Would you agree that the 'laws' that were supposedly done away with ACTUALLY got harder to follow? It used to be you had to be PHYSICALLY perfect under the law. NOW not only do we need to be physically perfect but we are also RESPONSIBLE for what we think. That isn't easier that is HARDER. True, we do have the Holy Spirit that makes it easier again but judgment will be more intense. Every idle word (and thought):eek:


BEFORE ANYONE STARTS JUMPING UP AND DOWN, DON'T HAVE TO BE PERFECT, AS UNDER GRACE.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,215
1,614
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Midwest
#45
If only we could get this ONE BODY to walk together through it all by following His lead.
Precious friend, yes, that would be ideal, but seems more likely that Most
will Not "walk together" Until HE "catches us Up" in Great GRACE Departure,
and Judges us in Heaven.
I have for years been praying for and "planting the
seeds" for our unity, but VERY FEW even acknowledge these, or even attempt
to discuss them; it is Much Easier to just say "you are WRONG, and call names"...

...ignoring HIS (The LORD's) "Leading.":

Bible "study" Rules (HIS Leading?)

HIS "Way of HOW TO study"? (2 Timothy 2:15)?:

God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels
Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!

(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 3:9 =
Grace/Mystery
fellowship {Romans – Philemon}, For ALL “to SEE,” today?)

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God’s Simple Will!
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,156
5,723
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#46
I try to keep these scriptures close when reading and writing here because I surely don't want to judge another mans servant.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ


Ephesians 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

1Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

1Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.


With so many jobs and so many gifts and so many members and so many callings and mix all the rest in, what are the chances WE WILL EVER GET BORED? I truly believe that if we follow His suggestions (commands) that His promises come. I believe this because it happened to me. It happens to me. But it didn't come easy. But it did come FUN and interesting and emotion and REAL. What we need is the meat eaters to act like it. The most mature should be the least condeming the least judgmental the most uplifting the ones who show what a Christian walk looks like with the words of God producing fruit. That seem to be a tiny issue as there is a criticalness that does not come across as 'inviting'. I am working on it. I wish to walk better and more holy everyday and as long as I keep praying and repenting I know I am improving.

If only we could get this ONE BODY to walk together through it all by following His lead. Lets figure out how to kindle a fire and take charge over all our enemies.

yeah it’s the churches main enemy we turn on each other when the world is already against us . Satan fears Christians who pull together in Christ. But most often we instead make enemies of one another arguing over what Gods word says
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#47
I haven't been able to read the dead sea scrolls and I know it is a divided subject that some don't consider to be God's word but until I can read them for myself I think it should be taken as if it is God's word.
The Dead Sea scrolls are a mishmash of various kinds of writings. There are many Scripture scrolls, but there are also many heretical teachings.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
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#48
The Dead Sea scrolls are a mishmash of various kinds of writings. There are many Scripture scrolls, but there are also many heretical teachings.
Heretical teachings? Like what exactly?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
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#49
How do we bring together those who believe there can be NO change whatsoever from what was first given with those who believe 'books will be opened' in the very end?
To answer your question, we need to remember two things:
1. God's written Word is already settled and it cannot be changed.

2. When the Bible says that "the books are opened", the context is the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev 20). Those books contain the records of the deeds (and words) of the ones who are NOT written in the Book of Life. This has nothing to do with our present situation.

3. Individual Christians must grow and mature within local Bible-believing churches. Whether or not it is happening as it should is questionable, because the majority of churches are not following the NT pattern.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#50
Heretical teachings? Like what exactly?
"A considerable number of apocryphal and pseudepigraphic texts are preserved at Qumran, where original Hebrew and Aramaic versions of these Jewish compositions of the Second Temple period were first encountered. These writings, which are not included in the canonical Jewish scriptures, were preserved by different Christian churches, and were transmitted in Greek, Ethiopic, Syriac, Armenian, and other translations."
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/history-and-overview-of-the-dead-sea-scrolls
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
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#51
"A considerable number of apocryphal and pseudepigraphic texts are preserved at Qumran, where original Hebrew and Aramaic versions of these Jewish compositions of the Second Temple period were first encountered. These writings, which are not included in the canonical Jewish scriptures, were preserved by different Christian churches, and were transmitted in Greek, Ethiopic, Syriac, Armenian, and other translations."
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/history-and-overview-of-the-dead-sea-scrolls
So if I am understanding correctly these writings are not to be treated as the word of God then? I have only heard of them I have never read them myself and don't know if it is even possible to read them with my eyes as damaged as they are but I will admit I am curious and if given the chance would read them and decide for myself
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,313
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#52
There are no NEW WORDS to be given but DEEPER understandings to the ones we presently have.
I have to say I totally disagree with this.

Heresy that clearly teaches things not in scripture can easily be seen as heresy. But heresy that cleverly uses "new revelation" on old words is more readily accepted. We don't need "new revelation." We need to teach the old things under the power of the Spirit and without apology.

Every church out there in the evangelical industrial complex has deeper truths, new revelations. And if you notice it's always based on at least one scripture, usually taken out of context and falsely interpreted. These false churches are leading us to the false unity of ecumenism.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#53
I have to say I totally disagree with this.

Heresy that clearly teaches things not in scripture can easily be seen as heresy. But heresy that cleverly uses "new revelation" on old words is more readily accepted. We don't need "new revelation." We need to teach the old things under the power of the Spirit and without apology.

Every church out there in the evangelical industrial complex has deeper truths, new revelations. And if you notice it's always based on at least one scripture, usually taken out of context and falsely interpreted. These false churches are leading us to the false unity of ecumenism.
I think some confuse new revelation with the same revelation just spoken differently and likewise new revelation can simply be a notion that one made up in their imaginations especially those who don't know his voice well enough and confuse it with their own.

But any revelation from the spirit will always have it's roots in scripture in some way or form if opne feels lead to speak or prophesy I would not discourage them but I would test to see if it was God given or not. Many churches out there are all for the spirit but have little knowledge or understanding of scripture one church in particular I went to one time was such a church and I had a very uneasy feeling in my spirit I knew I had to get out of there fast
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,313
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#54
I think some confuse new revelation with the same revelation just spoken differently and likewise new revelation can simply be a notion that one made up in their imaginations especially those who don't know his voice well enough and confuse it with their own.

But any revelation from the spirit will always have it's roots in scripture in some way or form if opne feels lead to speak or prophesy I would not discourage them but I would test to see if it was God given or not. Many churches out there are all for the spirit but have little knowledge or understanding of scripture one church in particular I went to one time was such a church and I had a very uneasy feeling in my spirit I knew I had to get out of there fast
All we need to do is preach and teach the same revelation with the same words. It's those who aren't happy with the true gospel of Christ who feel they have to have change it somehow to make it better. We're not called to make it better; we're called to preach it.

We're also not called to create unity, that's the Spirit's job. If we're walking in the truth, we'll recognize others who are in the truth and have unity and fellowship with them.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,156
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#55
Yes the division within the church has always bothered me I mean the enemy is after all a master at the game of war he knows that the best strategy to overcome the enemy army is to divide then conquer. But the church is greatly divided you have hundreds of denominations and within those denominations you have hundreds of different doctrines within those doctrines you have thousands of interpretations each one believing they are are truth and from the holy spirit.
Yet it seems many do not listen to his voice when it comes to this matter because he can't be saying diferent things so then whose voice are we listening to for our understanding?

Maybe it is more wise to learn his voice well first before going into the meat of scripture otherwise we will be swayed by our own thinking or the thinking of others. The way many debate while debating can be good for ones growth everyone just seems to want to prove their point while disproving anothers. And the way scripture is cherry picked and thrown around is appalling. God's word is holy and sacred and should be treated as such it is not a toy for us to throw around.


The thing is brother it’s how we learn by coming together not knowing everything . It’s just the attitude we need to watch discussion from dofferent points of view is good of the people are all trying to learn , if they are all trying to teach everyone else and are convinced they know it all And can’t be wrong is where the issue comes in but we learn from one another when humility rules and it doesn’t matter who was right or wrong on a subject but that we come to the right answer d acknolwedge it together is the point

edification of each other not one person trying to be the end all edification of everyone else but free discussion d restraint on arguing always leads to the right things when we stay focused on the right word

“Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:12-


if we came together in those instructions d all took responsibility for our own attitude not worrying about then others but just making whatever point we feel we have and seeing what comes from it when others respond if we’re able to add together and not tear apart we can grow up stronger with drinking milk

“Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬


we can discuss in love for the right purposes of edification or for the wrong purposes of being right and knowing a lot about scripture


we grow when we look to each other more in every aspect of life with the right attitudes and no vanity or envy among us

I think really humans are sort of stubborn it takes us awhile to realize thkngs sometimes and God is patient as we believe and look more towards Jesus longsuffering and enduring with us as we learn and grow in him

I think disagreeing is okay d discussing is great if this were like a seminary then only whoever thinks t be have it all figured out would be speaking but I think the idea here is to discuss in the right spirit but that’s hard so because we’re humans
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#56
So if I am understanding correctly these writings are not to be treated as the word of God then? I have only heard of them I have never read them myself and don't know if it is even possible to read them with my eyes as damaged as they are but I will admit I am curious and if given the chance would read them and decide for myself
The effect on the world by the finding of the dead sea scrolls is profound, and amazing. They were hidden for 2,000 years and were found at a time when the church needed them. They are a link between our time and ancient time, and the over all effect of them is that scholars respect the OT through seeing it wasn't much changed by the many transcribing it by hand.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#57
The effect on the world by the finding of the dead sea scrolls is profound, and amazing. They were hidden for 2,000 years and were found at a time when the church needed them. They are a link between our time and ancient time, and the over all effect of them is that scholars respect the OT through seeing it wasn't much changed by the many transcribing it by hand.
Is there a way for me to listen to them like I do my audio bible? I want to see for myself the truth of them.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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#58
Is there a way for me to listen to them like I do my audio bible? I want to see for myself the truth of them.
lOTS OF WORK
Is there a way for me to listen to them like I do my audio bible? I want to see for myself the truth of them.
There are many translations of these scrolls. They have worked at it for years. Could you have someone try Amazon for you?

I found them too numerous and wordy to be able to judge them, I trust the people who are devoting their lives to this task to tell me what they find.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#59
lOTS OF WORK
There are many translations of these scrolls. They have worked at it for years. Could you have someone try Amazon for you?

I found them too numerous and wordy to be able to judge them, I trust the people who are devoting their lives to this task to tell me what they find.
If it is on amazon then I can have someone help me order it but I can't trust others to decide if it is truth or not I have to find the truth for myself. Luckily I will be able to tell if it is God's word or not his word is more than mere ink and words his spirit flows in it
 
Dec 15, 2021
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#60
HIS "Way of HOW TO study"? (2 Timothy 2:15)?:

God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels
Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!

(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 3:9 =
Grace/Mystery
fellowship {Romans – Philemon}, For ALL “to SEE,” today?)

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God’s Simple Will!

One of my favorites but from a different observation deck I believe, so to speak. I pray that you also are ENLIGHTENED and EDIFIED. I pray you pray on it for a bit before responding. I will stop at that.


I hope you will give a like explanation as you see it from your observation deck and I hope it closely resembles the following in form and function. Please forgive me but it is difficult for me to follow your presentation in the form it is above, I like to receive the answer without searching it out to make sure I get the correct take on it. If it is straightforward and clear cut it eliminates my need to guess incorrectly and we don't waste any of each others precious time.

Took from the Greek to make it easier because we are speaking to the same words

Hasten yourself approved to present to God a workman not ashamed accurately handling the word of truth


Hasten
4704 spoudazó
Strong's Concordance
spoudazó: to make haste, hence to give diligence
Original Word: σπουδάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: spoudazó
Phonetic Spelling: (spoo-dad'-zo)
Definition: to make haste, to give diligence
Usage: I hasten, am eager, am zealous.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 4704 spoudázō – properly, be swift (go fast, be speedy); (figuratively) to move speedily by showing full diligence (fully applying oneself); acting fervently (speedy commitment) to accomplish all that God assigns through faith ("His inbirthed persuasion"). Accordingly, 4704 (spoudázō) and faith (4102 /pístis) are directly linked (see Eph 4:3-5; 2 Tim 4:7-9). See 4710 (spoudē).


accurately handling
3718. orthotomeó ►
Strong's Concordance
orthotomeó: to cut straight
Original Word: ὀρθοτομέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: orthotomeó
Phonetic Spelling: (or-thot-om-eh'-o)
Definition: to cut straight
Usage: I cut straight; met: I handle correctly, teach rightly.
HELPS Word-studies
3718 orthotoméō(from temnō, "to cut" and 3717 /orthós, "straight") – properly, cut straight (on a straight line),
i.e. "rightly divide" (correctly apportion).

2. dropping the idea of cutting, to make straight and smooth; Vulg.rectetracto, to handle aright: τόν λόγον τῆς ἀληθείας,
i. e. to teach the truth correctly and directly, 2 Timothy 2:15; τόν ἀληθῆ λόγον, Eustathius, opuscc., p. 115, 41. (Not found elsewhere (except in ecclesiastical writings (Winer's Grammar, 26); e. g. constt. apost. 7, 31 ἐν τῷ τοῦ κυρίου δόγμασιν; cf. Suicer ii. 508f). Cf. καινοτομέω, to cut new veins in mining; dropping the notion of cutting, to make something new, introduce new things, make innovations or changes, etc.)
to make a straight cut, i.e. (figuratively) to dissect (expound) correctly (the divine message) -- rightly divide.


Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Greek Romans 16
25 To Him now being able you to strengthen according to gospel my and the preaching of Jesus Christ according to revelation of the mystery in times of the ages having been kept secret

26 having been made manifest however now through also Scriptures prophetic according to commandment of the Eternal God unto obedience of faith to all the Gentiles having been made know


I do not see a 'dividing' of scripture, I see the 'revealing of a secret that was all the time written in prophetic Scriptures
Salvation was opened up to whomsoever would. As for a 'division' here, I don't see one.



Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:


Ephesians 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

AGAIN, I see no dividing of the words of God. RATHER the gentiles are going to be strengthened by the Spirit, Christ dwell in hearts by faith to be rooted in love and MAY BE ABLE TO COMPREHEND WITH ALL SAINTS. If ANYTHING we see what once was a division being done away with and the GATES that once locked them out being opened so that they could come on in and be fellow servants, joint heirs, partakers WITH....The mystery REVEALED A FELLOWSHIP WAS BROUGHT INTO BEING, not A separation.

THERE WAS A DIVISION BETWEEN THE TWO and CHRIST BROKE THAT DIVISION DOWN.

SO what we need to ASK OURSELVES IS WHO BROUGHT THAT DIVISION BACK?

CHRIST DIED AND MADE THE TWO ONE.

WHO DO WE THINK WOULD LIKE TO DIVIDE AND SO CONQUER GODS PEOPLE?
WHO WOULD TRY TO UNDO WHAT CHRIST HAD DONE?

How does it go? a house divided can not stand or something like that.


I hope you can see what I see and I hope you can show me what you see. If we both do that we can find some ground on which we can stand together.