I hold these truths to be self evident....

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R

Rosinsky

Guest
#81
#81
Sinnner said:
There is only one way to heaven and that is through Jesus Christ.
Salvation is based only on the works of Jesus on the cross, and your faith and acceptance of that fact, I have never said that it is based on my works, go back through the post and see. People have twisted my words.
For instance to consider fornication "works" is just not true. Its sin and there wil not be a hint of it any of us if we are to be in the kingdom of God,
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I apologize if it seemed to you that I twisted your words, I can assure you that it was not my intent. However, based on what you said, that's what I read from it.

The reason why we will go to heaven is simply because we have accepted Christ into our lives as our Lord and savior. If you have accepted Christ into your life, then you cannot lose your salvation. If you were to "lose" it, then you never had it in the first place.
 
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Sinnner

Guest
#82
#82
I wish that eternal salvation was true. That would mean that I could go and satisfy every fleshey desire that I have and not worry about going to hell. It would mean my childhood best friend that was once saved and was shot an killed by the cops cause he was selling cops drugs and a gun would be in heaven. Its a cop out, its too easy, it takes work to be a Christian.
 
R

Rosinsky

Guest
#83
#83
Sinnner said:
I wish that eternal salvation was true. That would mean that I could go and satisfy every fleshey desire that I have and not worry about going to hell. It would mean my childhood best friend that was once saved and was shot an killed by the cops cause he was selling cops drugs and a gun would be in heaven. Its a cop out, its too easy, it takes work to be a Christian.
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Sinner, I believe you just described what I call "once saved always saved always false."

Jesus says "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." (John 10:27) It is possible for a sheep to backslid, however this sheep will come back because the sheep knows the voice and his master and follows Him.
 
S

Sinnner

Guest
#84
#84
I don't know what to say, its like 5 against 1, I obviously have no support in here, I have accidentally stumbled across a baptist based chat room. I don't think baptists are unsaved. But yall have already judged me simply because my beliefs are a bit more strict.
 
S

Sinnner

Guest
#85
#85
Whats SDA, I go to Victory Church in Oklahoma City, the pastor is Mark Crow its online at www.vc.tv, its refered to as carasmatic
 
C

Compassion

Guest
#87
#87
Baptistrw said:
That doesn't mean someone lost their salvation, that means they were NEVER saved to begin with. They were the soil sowed on stony ground.
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I don't agree with that at all. Saved people turn their back on God all the time. When you are saved, you are a new creature. If no change takes place and you don't start producing good fruit...then, no you aren't saved. People sin and get caught up in their own agendas...that doesn't mean they were never saved.
 
C

Compassion

Guest
#88
#88
Sinnner said:
I wish that eternal salvation was true. That would mean that I could go and satisfy every fleshey desire that I have and not worry about going to hell. It would mean my childhood best friend that was once saved and was shot an killed by the cops cause he was selling cops drugs and a gun would be in heaven. Its a cop out, its too easy, it takes work to be a Christian.
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I do believe that you can lose your salvation. That does not necessarily mean that your friend is in hell. Was he saved? Saved people can fall back into sin also...that doesn't necessarily mean they are going to hell. I think it takes quite a bit and many years to turn your back on God to the point of losing your salvation.
 
R

Rosinsky

Guest
#89
#89
Compassion said:
I don't agree with that at all. Saved people turn their back on God all the time. When you are saved, you are a new creature. If no change takes place and you don't start producing good fruit...then, no you aren't saved. People sin and get caught up in their own agendas...that doesn't mean they were never saved.
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1 John 2:19 - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

The issue here is not whether or not a saved one can get caught in his/her sin. It is possible for a Christian backslide, but this Christian will return as he/she knows the voice of his master. Jesus did not lie when He said that his sheep knows his voice and follow him. It is the notion that you can lose your salvation. That is not possible. If you lose it, then you never had it as the scripture points out.
 
S

Sinnner

Guest
#90
#90
Rosinsky said:
1 John 2:19 - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

The issue here is not whether or not a saved one can get caught in his/her sin. It is possible for a Christian backslide, but this Christian will return as he/she knows the voice of his master. Jesus did not lie when He said that his sheep knows his voice and follow him. It is the notion that you can lose your salvation. That is not possible. If you lose it, then you never had it as the scripture points out.
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Everone keeps quoting the same scriptures, it doesn't change my mind. It is the interpretation that a preacher has put on you. No preacher said to me that this was not right. I am just recently learning that the people that believe this expend a lot of time and energy defending this. It is not that common of a belief around here, I thought most people knew you can loose your salvation, now let me be clear I also agree that it will take a long time to do this, but none the less posible.
 
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Thaddaeus

Banned
#91
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
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#91
Sinnner said:
I guess that is a scripture that you have interperted to say the Holy Spirit is not here with us? And its not man that saves us.
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I never said that!!!!!!!!!!!!

GRIEVE, v.t. [L. gravo, from gravis.]
1. To give pain of mind to; to afflict; to wound the feelings. Nothing grieves a parent like the conduct of a profligate child.
2. To afflict; to inflict pain on.
For he doth not afflict willingly, nor grieve the
children of men. Lam.3.
3. To make sorrowful; to excite regret in.
4. To offend; to displease; to provoke.
Grieve not the holy Spirit of God. Eph.4.
without faith it is impossible to please Him, if you believe that you can unseal your salvation, then you grieve the Holy Spirit, and in away you are saying that you are greater than Him, because you can open something that He has sealed, you are raising yourself above God Himself, which is dangerous, so then we would have to say that to raise yourself above God that you were never saved to start with, for no true child of God would ever try to raise themselves above God!!!!
 
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Thaddaeus

Banned
#92
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
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#92
Sinnner said:
Everone keeps quoting the same scriptures, it doesn't change my mind. It is the interpretation that a preacher has put on you. No preacher said to me that this was not right. I am just recently learning that the people that believe this expend a lot of time and energy defending this. It is not that common of a belief around here, I thought most people knew you can loose your salvation, now let me be clear I also agree that it will take a long time to do this, but none the less posible.
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then let me give you these scriptures :


Heb 12:2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.Heb 12:3For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.Heb 12:4Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.Heb 12:5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:Heb 12:6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.Heb 12:7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?Heb 12:8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.


If we sin and lose your salvation, where does the doctrine of Chastisement come in, God corrects us as a Father, not kick us out of the Family , and then if you still continue in your sin after chastisement then He will give you over to satan whom will destory the body ( before you can walk away from God ) so that you soul will be with Jesus on that day.


1co 5:5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.



Mt 10:28And FEAR NOT them which kill the body, but are NOT able to kill the soul: but rather FEAR him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
 
B

Baptistrw

Guest
#93
#93
Compassion said:
I don't agree with that at all. Saved people turn their back on God all the time. When you are saved, you are a new creature. If no change takes place and you don't start producing good fruit...then, no you aren't saved. People sin and get caught up in their own agendas...that doesn't mean they were never saved.
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They may do it for a time, but God will chastise them back into walking after Him. If someone can totally walk away from Christianity, they were never saved to begin with.
 
T

Thaddaeus

Banned
#94
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
11
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#94
1co 5:5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


Just because someone dies while they are in a backsliding state does not mean they are not saved. and you guys are wrongfully judging alot of folks with your doctrine.
 
B

Baptistrw

Guest
#95
#95
Sinnner said:
Everone keeps quoting the same scriptures, it doesn't change my mind. It is the interpretation that a preacher has put on you. No preacher said to me that this was not right. I am just recently learning that the people that believe this expend a lot of time and energy defending this. It is not that common of a belief around here, I thought most people knew you can loose your salvation, now let me be clear I also agree that it will take a long time to do this, but none the less posible.
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From what I've seen you've used no scripture to back up your claim of conditional salvation.
 
I

imoss

Banned
#96
Feb 27, 2007
3,179
19
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#96
so i'm curious as to "when" exactly salvation is lost? we know in our heart when we grieve the Holy Spirit... It may be hours before we spend time with God in repentance... so is this a condition of the heart? or is it a condition of GOD? if I grieve the Holy Spirit at 2:00 in the city then drive home & crash on the way home is it ... eeei oooh eeei ooh its off to Hell I go??? I think not. Backslide for an hour or for a season I believe our heavenly father waits for us... We are only ripping ourselves off in the way of spiritual blessings and fullness of life, Perhaps once you are a parent you will understand how our Heavenly Father feels about us... If you are already a parent take a look at your child, if they fell into drugs and a terrible lifestyle would you STOP loving them??? I think not.
 
S

Sinnner

Guest
#98
#98
Baptistrw said:
From what I've seen you've used no scripture to back up your claim of conditional salvation.
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I used all kinds of scriptures and you dismissed all of them, even one you said "thats not meant for us" , you can't tell much if from what you can tell I havent been using scriptures. I read the bible every day and I never read a scripture that says or even in a round about way that we can live like hell and get into heaven, daily I come across something that tells me otherwise.
 
S

Sinnner

Guest
#99
#99
imoss said:
so i'm curious as to "when" exactly salvation is lost? we know in our heart when we grieve the Holy Spirit... It may be hours before we spend time with God in repentance... so is this a condition of the heart? or is it a condition of GOD? if I grieve the Holy Spirit at 2:00 in the city then drive home & crash on the way home is it ... eeei oooh eeei ooh its off to Hell I go??? I think not. Backslide for an hour or for a season I believe our heavenly father waits for us... We are only ripping ourselves off in the way of spiritual blessings and fullness of life, Perhaps once you are a parent you will understand how our Heavenly Father feels about us... If you are already a parent take a look at your child, if they fell into drugs and a terrible lifestyle would you STOP loving them??? I think not.
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Are you even reading this post? I posted earlier that I'm sure it would take a long time to lose your salvation, I don't decide that.

Of course I wouldn't stop loving them, but what if they were older and left the house and started doing drugs or whatever. I could't stop them only love them and keep my doors open for them or whatever I had to do, but I can't make them stay. They will make their own choices.
 
I

imoss

Banned
#100
Feb 27, 2007
3,179
19
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#100
Sinnner said:
Are you even reading this post? I posted earlier that I'm sure it would take a long time to lose your salvation, I don't decide that.

Of course I wouldn't stop loving them, but what if they were older and left the house and started doing drugs or whatever. I could't stop them only love them and keep my doors open for them or whatever I had to do, but I can't make them stay. They will make their own choices.
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yeah i'm reading your post just not really understanding the biblical relevance. If it truly was biblically relevant God would have addressed it with Clarity and there would have been an element of measurable time to LOSE your salvation wouldnt you think? or do you perceive God as the author of confusion? you have not scripturally supported your theory in my humble opinion.
 
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