i need help with this math problem
- Thread starter iamsoandso
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
K
Agree completely on the water-stained papyrus issue. That's why it's just not worth following up. All it will do is give us the relative position of the same quarter size piece of those two pages. If we cannot match the previous page to Rev., it will prove either that it is a commentary, other writing, or altered text. If we can match words, it could still be a commentary, other writing or altered text. Another issue: if water soaks a rolled scroll, it would get to more sections of it than if it soaks bound pages. A rolled scroll is a couple inches thick, as opposed to pages being 4-6 inches wide, I went so far as counting letters and measuring words in a Greek text and trying to determine the number of letters in a line.
I ruled out the other possibilities for kento, I think. I allowed k to be any other letter. I still could not find "ento", either in one word or two, in any of the last two verses of that chapter. Kappa, theta nu cannot occur in Greek. Greek needs vowels in every syllable. It certainly cannot occur at the end of a word. Simply pull a up a "comapct Bible Greek" grammar text via a search engine, and you will see the permissible noun and verb endings. The vowels are extremely important. Yes, it could translate as unto the "en to" or "en touto", etc. If it does, then the text is different from our Greek NT.
In Rev. 11:2, it's not theta nu, it's theta eta. Remember, small greek long e looks like our small n. Their small n looks like our small v. The letter in our sample is certainly capital N.
I ruled out the other possibilities for kento, I think. I allowed k to be any other letter. I still could not find "ento", either in one word or two, in any of the last two verses of that chapter. Kappa, theta nu cannot occur in Greek. Greek needs vowels in every syllable. It certainly cannot occur at the end of a word. Simply pull a up a "comapct Bible Greek" grammar text via a search engine, and you will see the permissible noun and verb endings. The vowels are extremely important. Yes, it could translate as unto the "en to" or "en touto", etc. If it does, then the text is different from our Greek NT.
In Rev. 11:2, it's not theta nu, it's theta eta. Remember, small greek long e looks like our small n. Their small n looks like our small v. The letter in our sample is certainly capital N.
K
I had not thought of comparing Coptic. That could explain where his deviant N came from. But it's still an N. He would have no reason to do that though. Whoever wrote this was copying or taking dictation in the Greek language. Before hieroglyphics was banned in about 400AD, there was no point in using Coptic if you didn't have to, for Egyptian writing. Hieretic was faster than printed Coptic. I assume people thought in one language or the other. I can't mix Hebrew, Greek, hieroglyphics and even English. My mind does flip flops if I don't keep them in separate columns and go really slow.
K
I just looked at all of them again. Something's missing: The rest of the book. Ch. 14 is at the top of the last whole page, then we get two half pages. All 5 of the previous pages have scraps from a whole page. At the rate that this is written on the few pages we have, wouldn't we need at least two more whole pages to finish Revelation? Yet, all the scraps from the bottom/or top of the next two pages are missing. Scrolls won't deteriorate that way. If the whole of the first 5 pages deteriorates, shouldn't the whole of the next two do the same? So, maybe their copy is shorter, which lends support to the idea that it's a commentary?
K
I don't understand. Do you think it's Rev., or do you think it's a commentary? I don't understand about the narrowing you are referring to. The scraps, as positioned by Oxford, make it look to me like it is the right length to be Rev. complete up to about ch. 14, and then only room for about 3 more chapters.
,,,,,hmm,i think it a documentary,,if we look were they said "i cant find them",,,and you've already proved from the first fragment we worked on "its within 4 or 5 paragraphs",,,,not spread out across the whole chapter,,,,i thought this long ago,,,you've confirmed what i thought years ago,,you found things i did not see,,,but you are correct "this i think is not the actual book of rev.",,,,i think oxford found enough words to make them think "to them it was",,,,,and finished their report,,,i wasn't sure if i was incorrect or not,,,i tell you the truth "my Greek is weak",,,but i think its a commentary,,,,,,
K
Yes, it is preceded by a phi, circle with a vertical line through it. The word is "phanou", meaning "of brightness". The whole text is about 50 lines long. This will thus be in point 1 or two, given in English as "gifts to the temple". The Egyptian is damaged for the first few lines. "Temple of brightness is common enough in ancient texts. "-anou-" only exists in Greek as parts of other words. ou is pretty much the sign of the genitive case, and that's what you have here - "of the....(whatever)".
i wasn't sure if it was nu or eta,i went thru several different resolutions(its hard to see in most),but yes he lowered the taxes to the temples, gave gifts ect. so that matches the wording. i thought it might give a key to the Coptic but the middle language isn't the same. remember a while back in another post we were the way governments taxed religious organizations? this states he lowered their tax,and we know the way Rome taxed. so its an example of the old Egypt 501c irs form(lol). in the case in the question to Christ though seemed like two trick questions they were asking should we (the synagog/state) pay and the regular people of Israel also. but any way i remembered what we were discussing a month or so ago about the 501c and took not of the Ptolemy eph.111 tax code.,,,,you know the parts that give me a hard time with Greek is this back in the 80's i bought strongs exhaustive concordance,,then with the www i used w/hort some but have you used the lindell/scott?,,it's from oxford press and i notice big differences in the definitions and spellings.
Last edited:
K
Liddell-Scott is an encyclopedic Dictionary of Greek usage. An older edition is free online, and the most current edition is searchable online as well. Most modern people don't know that the college entrance exam from 1600-about 1870 was reading knowledge of Latin and Greek. Scholars in those days were perfectly fluent in both, so even the older editions are definintive.
In researching the fouding of Milford, DE, where I live, I ran into an interesting taxation issue. One of the presumed founders of the city was the Anglican priest stationed here. Shortly after the revolutionary war, he went to the Delware state legislature to request a special law be passed for his church to be tax exempt. Apparently, the laws such as we have were not yet in place enough to guarantee the exemption yet.
In researching the fouding of Milford, DE, where I live, I ran into an interesting taxation issue. One of the presumed founders of the city was the Anglican priest stationed here. Shortly after the revolutionary war, he went to the Delware state legislature to request a special law be passed for his church to be tax exempt. Apparently, the laws such as we have were not yet in place enough to guarantee the exemption yet.
yes i also doing mine own genealogy found several tax systems especially around the revolution. in n.c.,s.c. and then different ones in the Cherokee lands later Georgia ect. several of the preachers from there were from my bloodline so a lot of the information i found came from their church records. many of them had no actual land or building where they met,,so they met at different places,i suppose this to be one of the reasons they had to eventually file official tax forms as proof.,,,,i have still been working on what we have been discussing which led me to refreshing my reading in a.h.,,,,i remember reading some where he stated valentinus and the markoniens were "mesengers of satin",and shows it was foretold the thing they would teach.