I want to understand the Catholic faith so....

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epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
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Ok, missMarionette, you've pushed your pompous arrogance a bit too far. We don't have a problem with the 'catholic faith' because it doesn't exist. It's a fallacy. You don't know if you were to die right now today, whether or not you'd go to heaven, and if you say you do, you're going against the very religious bunkem you claim to believe in. You're hierarchy instructs you that you can NOT know, and if claim to know, you're own leaders consider you anathema...accursed of God.
This is why you HAVE to practice the things they tell you, ... there's confession to 'priests', 'acts' of contrition, prayers to 'saints', and incessant, repetative 'prayers'...over and over and over, to someone who is clearly NOT the Mary who gave birth to Jesus, but some entity you plead to, to pray for you...not only now, but all the way to the hour of your DEATH, all because you DO NOT have faith in Jesus. Ppl have tried to show you just exactly who Jesus is, what He did FOR YOU, and what He Promises to do for you, if you would simply put your trust in Him alone and receive the salvation He purchased FOR YOU with His own blood, which you still can do...Now...Today.
But you refuse to listen, and have now resorted to insulting a woman on a Christian chat site, yet you know nothing about her childhood, how she was raised or who by who, nor do you know what stuggles she's been through in life or what she may be struggling with even now, but she has put her faith and trust in the TRUE God and Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, and that shows she's got more spine, more FAITH, than the many spineless religious worms who are afraid to do the same. And yet, she'd be the first to tell you salvation is a gift, which is why she praises the Lord and thanks Him for it, and has taken time out of her own life to try to share that truth with you.
And you may not believe it, but even thru my anger, MY HEART BREAKS OVER THE HARDNESS OF YOURS. We don't hate you at all, in fact, we love you enough to share the good news with you, and to pray for you. What we 'hate' is false teaching in the name of our Saviour, and the spiritual darkness that it keeps ppl in bondage to.
Furthermore, most of these ppl here are not only friends, but believers in Jesus, brothers and sisters in Christ, which makes us children of the King, and I for one believe you owe our sister an apology. You're on shaky ground at this point, and you'd do well to consider the things most ppl have been trying to tell you here...or you're free to find another websight where ppl might be more in line with your religion. But for Jesus'sake and yours, I pray that's not your final decision.
Everything that is true in your beliefs came from the Catholic Church, which is quite a lot. I don't think you can figure out which are from the Catholic Church and which are inventions of Protestants. Don't misunderstand me, most non-Catholic communities have the means of salvation and are sources of grace and truth. We are to accept all believers as brothers and sisters in Christ. We extended the olive branch and look what we get in return.

2. "...No one is unaware of the challenge which all this poses to believers. They cannot fail to meet this challenge. Indeed, how could they refuse to do everything possible, with God's help, to break down the walls of division and distrust, to overcome obstacles and prejudices which thwart the proclamation of the Gospel of salvation in the Cross of Jesus, the one Redeemer of man, of every individual?


I thank the Lord that he has led us to make progress along the path of unity and communion between Christians, a path difficult but so full of joy. Interconfessional dialogues at the theological level have produced positive and tangible results: this encourages us to move forward.


Nevertheless, besides the doctrinal differences needing to be resolved, Christians cannot underestimate the burden of long-standing misgivings inherited from the past, and of mutual misunderstandings and prejudices. Complacency, indifference andinsufficient knowledge of one another often make this situation worse. Consequently, the commitment to ecumenism must be based upon the conversion of hearts and upon prayer, which will also lead to the necessary purification of past memories. With the grace of the Holy Spirit, the Lord's disciples, inspired by love, by the power of the truth and by a sincere desire for mutual forgiveness and reconciliation, are called to re-examine together their painful past and the hurt which that past regrettably continues to provoke even today. All together, they are invited by the ever fresh power of the Gospel to acknowledge with sincere and total objectivity the mistakes made and the contingent factors at work at the origins of their deplorable divisions. What is needed is a calm, clear-sighted and truthful vision of things, a vision enlivened by divine mercy and capable of freeing people's minds and of inspiring in everyone a renewed willingness, precisely with a view to proclaiming the Gospel to the men and women of every people and nation..."
That They May Be One
 
Nov 25, 2014
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I'm assuming again you didn't see my post from several days ago Mary. I'll repost for you. This is not a gotcha post. I'd really like to know:
Thanks for replying Mary. Please don't interpret my questions as an attack, but you didn't really address my question. How can confessing your sins to a priest to have him grant forgiveness after reciting 10 hail marys and 5 Our Fathers be non-essential?

How can trying to BUY your loved ones graduation from purgatory to heaven through mass cards be non-essential? How can praying to the dead, Mary included, to intervene on our behalf be non- essential? The list goes on Mary, but you get the idea. these ARE very essential issues. Would you please pray on these questions and give me an answer? Mary, I can't tell you how many friends and relatives I have that remain catholic. And I pray they would accept Jesus ALONE as their Savior, but they believe these false, anti-Biblical doctrines, and I truly fail to see how this fundamental principle of Faith in Jesus' sacrificial death ALONE and these other doctrines can be reckoned . Thanks again Mary, and may the Lord Bless you and your family.

Okay...a couple of responses:
1. I wasn't evading any of your questions. I understood that you were asking me something like this "In the face of very objectionable theological ideas, how is it that you can still remain Roman Catholic?" So, I assumed that you wanted me to address the reasons why I was in the RCC as opposed to addressing the various objectionable theological ideas that you mentioned.

2. There is no way that I have enough room in one post to address the three theological concepts you've mentioned. Namely, The Sacrament of Reconciliation, the concept of purgatory, and the fellowship of all believers (which is inappropriately referred to as "prayer to the saints"). Also, there are plenty of online resources available that would address these concepts from a Catholic perspective (that is, it would give you the RCC scriptures and interpretation instead of some presumption of what is believed and practiced). The Vatican website is a great place to start if you have curiosity. Additionally, the site is vetted, so you know it's not Joe Schmoe's view of the RCC.

3. I think we are not seeing eye-to-eye on our understanding of orthodoxy. Orthodoxy means "right belief." Historically, it has referred to the most foundational beliefs a person must hold to be considered a Christian. Historically, these foundational beliefs have been expressed in the Creeds. (As an aside, the Apostles and Nicene Creeds were created by the "catholic"--universal--church. They also predate the canonization of scripture and were developed to address some pretty rampant heresies in the Church at that time. In fact, the Creeds helped inform the bishops about which texts should be in the canon. Additionally, the vast majority of Christendom adheres to the Creeds).

So, if I accept the Creeds as the standard for foundational belief, then all the concepts you've mentioned are not essential doctrines for being a Christian.

Again, just because they are non-essential, doesn't mean that they are not IMPORTANT...so don't presume that I'm saying something like, "These things shouldn't matter to you." I'm NOT saying that.

What I am saying is this: Based on my belief regarding orthodoxy, someone can participate in the Sacrament of Reconciliation (confession) without there being any reason for us to say, "This person is NOT a Christian." However, the Creeds DO address (for example) the resurrection of Jesus. So, if someone says something like, "Oh gee, it doesn't matter if Jesus really rose from the dead. If science found the body of Jesus, I wouldn't lose my faith," THEN I would doubt their understanding of the basics of the faith, and subsequently, their Christianity.

Here is a website for the three Creeds--Apostles, Nicene, and Athanasian. They are all from a Lutheran website. (remember, the Creeds aren't an RCC thing...most of Christendom believes the Creeds).

http://bookofconcord.org/creeds.php

 

epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
660
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[h=2]Satanism & the Eucharist[/h]April 24, 2004
During my parish work last summer in France, one of my responsibilities was participating in a weekly prayer group for young adults who had fallen away from the Church. The last meeting of the summer, one of the guys made a surprising revelation to us all: before his conversion, he had been a full-fledged Satanist.
This reflection is the true story of that conversation and what I learned from it.
[HR][/HR]Satanism & the Eucharist
One of the most chilling moments in The Passion was during the Lord’s scourging, when Satan appears cradling a baby who slowly turns to reveal a hideous face. Here Satan is mocking Jesus and Mary by presenting himself as a twisted sort of “anti” Madonna and Child, as if to proclaim that he and his offspring have won, and not the woman and her offspring as foretold in Genesis 3:15. This is how the Evil One loves to work—Satan loves to mock God by imitating the holy and twisting it in a sick way. This past summer I was struck with this truth in a totally new way.
Nicolas had been a part of the prayer group all year long, but this was the first time that he had talked about his life before his conversion. He told us about how he became involved in Satanism while in his late teens. It enslaved him, bringing despair and utter loneliness to his life, to the point where he was tormented with thoughts of suicide. He felt trapped and helpless in its grasp. It was only through the constant prayers of his mother that he was finally freed from this slavery a couple of years ago, and he began to give his life back to Christ.
I had never met anyone like Nicolas, openly admitting a past involvement in Satanism. After the initial shock, I bombarded him with three questions, one after another. First, how did they ‘worship’ Satan? I had always heard that it was not anything like worshipping an image of Satan or singing hymns, but by having a so-called “Black Mass.” In other words, their entire service is a mockery of the Catholic Mass. Was this true, I asked him? Not a Protestant preaching service, not a Buddhist temple ritual, but an explicit mockery of our Mass? “Yes,” Nicolas told us, “that is true.”
I had also heard, I continued, that Satanists steal consecrated communion bread from their local Catholic churches which they desecrate at these black services. For example, I have heard of Catholic parishes where this is such a problem that the pastor is forced to post special attendants during Holy Communion who watch to make sure that no one receives the Eucharist and walks away without consuming the host. The Satanists take these consecrated hosts to their services—these wafers of “bread” that Catholics believe have been miraculously transformed by the Holy Spirit into the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ—and desecrate them with spit, bodily waste, and other such unimaginable blasphemies. Before your conversion, I asked Nicolas, did you and your fellow Satanists steal consecrated hosts for this purpose? “Yes,” Nicolas answered, “we did.”
The poor guy probably felt like he was being interrogated by the CIA by this point, but knowing that I might never have this opportunity again, I asked Nicolas one final question. I told him that I had also heard that those who were very deep in Satanism could actually tell whether a communion host had been consecrated or not. For example, they will not steal communion bread from Protestant communion meals, nor will they steal unblessed communion bread for desecration at these “Black Masses.” It would not work because some of the Satanists would immediately recognize that it was just ordinary bread. They would be able to tell that Jesus Christ was not sacramentally present there.
I asked Nicolas whether this also was true. He again replied that it is, and he told us that he could do this himself before his conversion from Satanism. A chill went down my spine. If someone were to put ten identical communion hosts in front of him, nine unconsecrated and one consecrated, he would have been able to point directly and immediately to the host that had been consecrated. I asked him in amazement, “But how were you able to know?!?” He looked at me and the words he spoke are forever burned in my memory: “Because of the hate,” he said. “Because of the burning hate I would feel toward that host, apart from all the others.”
His words hit me like a baseball bat. Some of the saints also had this mystical knowledge of the Lord’s Eucharistic presence, but this knowledge flowed from their deep union with Christ. Nicolas, on the other hand, knew Christ’s presence because his worship of Satan had worked the opposite mystical connection to the Eucharist—he knew Jesus was there not because of his love for Jesus, but because of his deep hate. It makes my skin crawl just to think about such hatred.
This is how Satan operates. He loves to mock whatever is holy and sacred, to imitate the truth and twist it in a perverse way. The Mass is the most sacred prayer on earth, the most awesome way for us Christians to offer worship to our Lord, so Satan has his followers worship him through a mockery of that prayer. Instead of lifting the Eucharist high with adoration and loving reverence, the Eucharist is thrown to the ground with loathing and derision. Rather than knowing Christ’s true presence in the sacrament through their love, they perversely recognize Christ’s presence through their hatred.
Let’s not pretend otherwise—it is scary to hear a story like Nicolas’. It is terrifying to realize that such evil exists in this world. But more than frighten us, his testimony should give us hope, comfort, and strength. Satan does exist and he is powerful, but Jesus Christ is infinitely more powerful. Even the most wicked sinner can be brought back to the love of the Lord, through Christ’s grace and through the prayers of believers (like Nicolas’ mother!) If Satan so despises the Mass, then we should be moved to even greater devotion, preparation, and participation in Mass. If Satan so despises the Lord’s true presence in the Eucharist, then our hearts should burn with even greater love and thirst for worthily receiving Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed.”
A great explanation of the Eucharist : “Christ in the Eucharist”
A fascinating talk given by Dr. Scott Hahn : “The Sacrament of Sacraments”
The Eucharist Miracle of Lanciano : http://www.cmns.mnegri.it/miracolo/shortdesc.html
Satanism & the Eucharist | Saint Factory
 
Nov 25, 2014
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There are many different denominations that do carry the actual presence as their belief, but the Roman Catholics also isolate themselves as unique to the carrying out of this through the priests. I believe that the observance of the Lord's Supper is a symbolic remembrance of Christ's death. 1 Corinthians 11:24 says, "and after giving thanks to God, He broke it and said,'This is My Body, broken for you. Keep doing this so that you and all who come after will have a vivid reminder of Me." So, I don't believe the claims of the Roman Church that her priests are mysteriously able to change common bread and wine into the actual flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. That's where I sit anyway.

Actually, that's not accurate. Most of the denominations that adhere to the "Real Presence" believe that the elements MUST be blessed by someone ordained in order to have the Real Presence. So, for some (Protestant) denominations that would be the minister, elder, or deacon. For some, the minister or bishop. In the RCC and the Orthodox church, only priests and bishops can preside over the Eucharist.

Many of the churches that have a more Zwinglian approach would not require that an ordained person preside over communion. (This is logical. If it's symbolic, then anyone can have a "communion supper" whether or not they are ordained).
 

onlinebuddy

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2012
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Some points to ponder:
=>Are all who are favored sinless?
Many men of God, including Noah found favor in the eyes of God.
In verse Luke 1:43, Elizabeth considered herself to be favored.
In Luke 1:28, Mary was said to be "highly favored."

=>Does grace make one sinless?
Grace as mentioned in Titus 2:12, motivates the redeemed sinner(believer)to say "No" to sin, as they wait for Christ's return.

=>Are Jesus and Mary equals? Who is greater? Who should be given priority?
In Luke1: 31-33 Jesus (capital J) is given the position of deity by the angel.
In v 38 Mary considered herself to be the handmaiden(servant) of the Lord.
Guess who is the Lord of Lords!
In Luke 1:48, Mary considered herself to be a humble servant whom God noticed.

=>Who needs a saviour?
Is there even a single verse in the Bible where Jesus said, "my Savior?"
No! Because Jesus was sinless.
In Luke 1:47, Mary uses the words, "my Savior." (capital S)

=>Did Jesus' family (mother and brothers) understand his ministry initially?
Did Jesus understand his own ministry?

[SUP]20[/SUP]Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat.[SUP]21[/SUP]When his family 2 heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."[Mark 3:20]

=>Did Jesus give Mary an exalted position?
[SUP]31[/SUP]Then Jesus' mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him.[SUP]32[/SUP]A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you."[SUP]33[/SUP]"Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked.[SUP]34[/SUP]Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers![SUP]35[/SUP]Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."[Mark 3:31-35]

[SUP]27[/SUP]As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you."[SUP]28[/SUP]
He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."[Luke 11:27]

We see clearly that the Lord gave the Word of God priority over the person of Mary and above the belief of Mary, as the mother of God.
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
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I am not here to persecute the Roman Catholic faith, I am here to claim any false doctrine inept to finding victory over God's plan found in Jesus alone. So let me say what I do believe, not simply what I am upset about in my spirit. I believe the Church is made up of all born again Christians. 1 Cor. 12:12-13. So, the claims that say the Roman Catholics are the only it Church, and that anyone outside of their fold will be damned i don't adopt.

I believe Christ Himself is Head of the Church. Col. 1:18. The Christ-dishonoring teaching of the Roman Catholic Church that states the Pope in Rome is "infallible" and is the "Head of the Church" not to mention the "Vicar of Christ" on earth is preposterous.

I also believe in the priesthood of all believer's and that Christ alone is the Intermediary between man and God. 1 Tim. 2:5; and 1 John 2:1. So, I cannot believe in the "cult of Mary" and the "Mariolatry" of the Roman Catholic Church, which makes Mary more merciful than Christ, and the saints more attentive to human need than is Our Blessed Lord.

I believe when Jesus Christ died on the cross, He died Once for all.Hebrews 10:11-13. So, it is an incredible Heresy that every time a Roman Catholic priest says the mass, Christ is crucified afresh on that Roman Catholic alter. It is not a non-issue!

I believe the bible to be a sufficient and adequate guide as it is interpreted by the Holy Spirit. Mark 7:7-9; and John 16:13. So, the bible-dishonoring and Holy-Ghost discrediting teaching that the traditions of the Roman Catholic Church are equal in authority to the inspired and Sacred Scriptures and that the Roman church is the only safe guided interpreter of the bible, are again unbelievable to me.

I believe that only God can forgive sin. Daniel 9:9; and Isa. 55:7. I can't believe a mere Roman Catholic priest , by some religious magic or hocus-pocus, has the power to absolve and forgive men of their sins.

I believe that original sin is cleansed from the human heart by the baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire. Matt. 3:11; and Acts 15:8-10. So, this doctrine that says, in the sacrament of water baptism original sin is cleansed from the human heart is again a farce.

i believe that the soul's of the righteous go immediately at death to be with the Lord in paradise. Rev. 14:13. So i could never believe in the priest -invented purgatory nor in the callous and greedy religious exhortation of indulgences and suffrages.

I simply believe in Freedom and liberty. Acts 15:10; and John 8:36. so, the totalitarian system of the Roman Catholic church which down plays totalitarianism in politics, but practices it in religion, and denies freedom to those who disagree with it's biblical- distorted doctrines in those countries where it is in the majority, and is guilty of ever-encroaching limitation of liberty in those countries where it is in the minority is not a church that cannot escape the label of false doctrine to me. And these are a few reasons for me It is a religion of another Spirit save one thing, anyone in the Church who has been saved from it by God's true grace saving them.

* "People Honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are nowhere near Me. Because they elevate mere human ritual to the status of law, their worship of Me is a meaningless sham." Matt. 15:8-9. also Isaiah 29:13.
 
Dec 1, 2014
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“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”

Bishop Sheen
Again, too bad this statement isn't true. I know multitudes of people born and raised Catholic who loathe everything about Catholic church because it almost destroyed their faith in God. Thankfully, the Holy Spirit grabbed hold of these people and they saw the Light -- literally.
 
Dec 1, 2014
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I don't think you have a problem with the Catholic faith, but what she symbolizes. What would that be? An authority figure? You must had some kind of severe trauma a long time ago. Good little Christian girls can't get angry at parents, so the anger is displaced on a symbol of authority, the Catholic Church. It's not about religion at all and you should seek healing for the roots of the trauma. You will feel better about yourself.
The Catholic church has absolutely no authority over me, so again your statement is incorrect. I have a problem with the heretical, disrespectful, grace-lacking dogma of the Catholic church and how it has had detrimental affects upon centuries of blind, unfortunate followers.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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so no one wants to discus John 6/

And you catholics wonder why you are given such a hard time/

Thanks, But I do not listen to men,
 
S

sydlit

Guest
You have a very bleak and false view of Catholicism. View attachment 138436
Yeah , your a real wise-arse, epustle, and you still owe magenta an apology. And now everybody else! too.
Your schools and parishes are folding, while you continue to try to brainwash little kids with your lies and fear-mongering;
your patronage of WHAT arts? The millions tied up in gold, statues, paintings, baubles and trinkets? How bout cashing in the vatican and doing some Real good for the orphanages, you hypocrite.
And you mention science? History reveals your flipflop scientific positions, so don't make us laugh. And what's the latest...creation is true, but so is evolution? Hah, the worst of 3 options.
Your darn right I have a bleak view of your catholicism...I've experienced first hand it's destructive power in the hands of sinister religionists who teach doctrines of demons, while claiming to be the representatives of Christ. ... I am praying for you, jack. Honestly.
I am praying for you to be delivered from the bondage of false teaching, and to be set free by the Lord Jesus Christ.
I wonder how many ppl here YOU are actually praying for...and what would the prayer be anyway? For ppl to stop believing in the freedom that Jesus bought for us, so we can join your catholic religion and be entangled in the yolk of bondage?!
You still owe magenta an apology. Are you man enough to give it?
The Lord Jesus Christ, unlike your imaginary mary, is watching and listening for your response. And for your faith in Him.
 
W

WARRIORinCHRIST

Guest
Let me ask you, WARRIORinCHRIST -- what, exactly and precisely, makes a person a child of God? Are you saying that all humans are children of God? If not -- who, exactly and precisely, is a child of God? And, what makes them a child of God?

:)
Yes. We are all children of God. Means exactly that. No one excluded. It's the job of Christians to introduce Christ to non-believers, not convert believers to a new way of thinking. Each persons own heart will lead them, not an arguement on a website. When non believers see us talk to each other in this way, they laugh at us and say, "these are the people preaching love, understanding and forgiveness, and they don't even love each other!"
 
U

Ugly

Guest
Yes. We are all children of God. Means exactly that. No one excluded. It's the job of Christians to introduce Christ to non-believers, not convert believers to a new way of thinking. Each persons own heart will lead them, not an arguement on a website. When non believers see us talk to each other in this way, they laugh at us and say, "these are the people preaching love, understanding and forgiveness, and they don't even love each other!"
Please prove this with scripture. If we are adopted into God's family when we are saved, then how are we Bis children already?
The concept that we are all God's children reflects a more worldly view of God than a scripturally based view.
Ephesians 1:5
5 God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.
 
W

WARRIORinCHRIST

Guest
Yes, correct. I must explain better when I post.
I mean that all Christians are children of God, but
we must treat all like family, as Jesus wishes to welcome all into his family.
In this respect we are all prodigal sons, Jesus patiently awaiting us to come home to him.
To his, our family in Christ
 

onlinebuddy

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2012
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If Mary was so important, why did the Lord Jesus not exalt her even once?
Why is grace always related to Jesus, in the epistles, and never to Mary?
Why is Mary not even mentioned in any of the epistles?
Why did John not mention Mary in the Book of Revelation?
Why is she not mentioned in end time prophecy? (in Daniel & Revelation)

The last time Mary is mentioned in the Bible is in the book of Acts chapter 1;
and that to as someone who was among the women praying- no prominent position.
The last words of Jesus spoken in relation to Mary were to John,
in John 19:26-27. Again, no special position was given to Mary.

The days of the Book of Acts were considered to be the last days.
If Mary had a role in the salvation of mankind,
it would have been mentioned in the true Gospel that was preached at that time.

The gospel does not change or evolve! If it does, we are warned that it is a "false gospel."
I would prefer to stick to my Bible and learn from the Lord Jesus.
It is dangerous to believe in the concept of doctrinal evolution
in an age where Satan is on the prowl.

Jesus is the same, yesterday, today and forever (Heb 13:8)
God does not change like shifting shadows (James 1:17).
His word, the Bible, is final.


 

onlinebuddy

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2012
1,115
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Yes, correct. I must explain better when I post.
I mean that all Christians are children of God, but
we must treat all like family, as Jesus wishes to welcome all into his family.
In this respect we are all prodigal sons, Jesus patiently awaiting us to come home to him.
To his, our family in Christ
I haven't read all your posts, but I must say that I appreciate your humility.

I believe that we were prodigal sons. Not anymore! Now, we have realized our rebellion
(just like the prodigal son), repented (turned around) and returned to Jesus. We are God's special possessions and his instruments to glorify his name.
For "you were like sheep going astray," but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
[1 Pet 2:25]
 

epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
660
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Yeah , your a real wise-arse, epustle, and you still owe magenta an apology. And now everybody else! too.
Your schools and parishes are folding, while you continue to try to brainwash little kids with your lies and fear-mongering;
It's true some parishes are folding in a few countries, but in some areas they are not. "brainwashing little kids" is just hate speech. 2 independent reports show that Christians (mostly Catholic) in Iraq and Syria have been annihilated, but that must make you happy because then you can say parishes are folding.
your patronage of WHAT arts? The millions tied up in gold, statues, paintings, baubles and trinkets? How bout cashing in the vatican and doing some Real good for the orphanages, you hypocrite.
Vatican wealth is a myth. Check the CIA World Report. They analyse every country in the world, including the Vatican. Click on "economy"
But I don't think you can read anything that doesn't give you a rush. (as does the spiritual pornography of anti-Catholic hate speech)

It's impossible to find stats on orphanages world wide, but let me give you information about Central and South America. Neustros Pequanos Hermanos (Our Little Brothers and Sisters) or NPH

Statistics of all NPH Homes over 2014:
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]3,417[/TD]
[TD]Total children cared for living in our homes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]463[/TD]
[TD]New arrivals in our homes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]613[/TD]
[TD]Children living with HIV that receive antiretrovirals[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]700[/TD]
[TD]Honduras Holy Family Surgery Center surgeries[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]36[/TD]
[TD]NPH university graduates[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]159[/TD]
[TD]NPH high school graduates[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1,550[/TD]
[TD]Children from low-income households that attend NPH schools[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]283[/TD]
[TD]NPH youths that earned a vocational certification[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]141[/TD]
[TD]Full-time volunteers[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]985[/TD]
[TD]NPH staff and youths that received childcare and leadership training[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]630[/TD]
[TD]Holy Sacraments (First Communion, Baptism, Confirmation, Quinceañeros)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]95,481[/TD]
[TD]Services provided through community outreach programs[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Medical Services

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]562[/TD]
[TD]Chronic conditions (children living in the homes)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]63[/TD]
[TD]HIV (children living in the homes)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1,960[/TD]
[TD]Well child visits[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]3,177[/TD]
[TD]Vaccine doses[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]88[/TD]
[TD]Hospitalized (mostly for surgeries) others for emergencies (broken arms, and traumas)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]55[/TD]
[TD]Child surgeries[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]13,205[/TD]
[TD]Physician consults[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]8,463[/TD]
[TD]Nurse consults[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1,348[/TD]
[TD]Therapies (PT, OT, Speech, Psychological)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]3,343[/TD]
[TD]Dental consults

That's just in one year.

Although each of our homes is unique and special, they do have a lot in common. They provide love and security, they stress the importance of education, and teach the values of sharing, work and responsibility.
Education is a priority. It is one of the most important tools NPH can give the children in order to break the cycle of poverty affecting their lives and to help them become independent adults. Some pequeños excel at academics and strive to earn university scholarships. Others receive vocational training in one of many trades including ceramics, carpentry, cosmetology, tourism, computer sciences, electronics, child care, and animal husbandry.

The children also gain valuable experience from their various responsibilities while growing up at the home. They help clean the dorms, prepare meals in the kitchen, translate letters from the Godparents, plant and harvest in the fields and care for the livestock. The older pequeños gain leadership skills when they oversee these tasks during a year or more of family service, sometimes even going to help at one of the homes in another country. Many serve in the role of "encargado" (dorm parent), loving, counseling and caring for their younger brothers and sisters.

The children take great pride in their work, knowing they are contributing to their family's survival.
https://www.nph.org/
I know you are too filled with irrational hatred to check out the NPH web site where there is much more info but someone else might want to.

[video=youtube;xAFul6RXCHI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAFul6RXCHI[/video][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
And you mention science? History reveals your flipflop scientific positions, so don't make us laugh. And what's the latest...creation is true, but so is evolution? Hah, the worst of 3 options.
The Church rejects atheistic evolution, and extreme magical creation comes from a strict literal interpretation of Genesis. The truths of science cannot contradict the truths of God. Truth cannot contradict truth.

Ask someone today where Western Civilization originated, and he or she might say Greece or Rome. But what is the ultimate source of Western Civilization? Bestselling author and professor Thomas E. Woods, Jr. provides the long neglected answer: the Catholic Church. In the new paperback edition of his critically-acclaimed book, How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization, Woods goes far beyond the familiar tale of monks copying manuscripts and preserving the wisdom of classical antiquity. Gifts such as modern science, free-market economics, art, music, and the idea of human rights come from the Catholic Church, explains Woods. In How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization, you'll learn:
- Why modern science was born in the Catholic Church
- How Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market economics five hundred years before Adam Smith
- How the Catholic Church invented the university
- Why what you know about the Galileo affair is wrong
- How Western law grew out of Church canon law
- How the Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life

No institution has done more to shape Western civilization than the two-thousand-year-old Catholic Church-and in ways that many of us have forgotten or never known. How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization is essential reading for recovering this lost truth.

Your darn right I have a bleak view of your catholicism...I've experienced first hand it's destructive power in the hands of sinister religionists who teach doctrines of demons, while claiming to be the representatives of Christ. ... I am praying for you, jack. Honestly.
By watching Bill Mahar?

I am praying for you to be delivered from the bondage of false teaching, and to be set free by the Lord Jesus Christ.
I wonder how many ppl here YOU are actually praying for...and what would the prayer be anyway? For ppl to stop believing in the freedom that Jesus bought for us, so we can join your catholic religion and be entangled in the yolk of bondage?!
You still owe magenta an apology. Are you man enough to give it?
The Lord Jesus Christ, unlike your imaginary mary, is watching and listening for your response. And for your faith in Him.
I've never asked anyone to join the Church. If you cut out the lies and the hate I would be more inclined to take you seriously, but then you wouldn't have anything to post.
 

epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
660
15
18
If Mary was so important, why did the Lord Jesus not exalt her even once?
Why is grace always related to Jesus, in the epistles, and never to Mary?
Why is Mary not even mentioned in any of the epistles?
Why did John not mention Mary in the Book of Revelation?
Why is she not mentioned in end time prophecy? (in Daniel & Revelation)

The last time Mary is mentioned in the Bible is in the book of Acts chapter 1;
and that to as someone who was among the women praying- no prominent position.
The last words of Jesus spoken in relation to Mary were to John,
in John 19:26-27. Again, no special position was given to Mary.

The days of the Book of Acts were considered to be the last days.
If Mary had a role in the salvation of mankind,
it would have been mentioned in the true Gospel that was preached at that time.

The gospel does not change or evolve! If it does, we are warned that it is a "false gospel."
I would prefer to stick to my Bible and learn from the Lord Jesus.
It is dangerous to believe in the concept of doctrinal evolution
in an age where Satan is on the prowl.

Jesus is the same, yesterday, today and forever (Heb 13:8)
God does not change like shifting shadows (James 1:17).
His word, the Bible, is final.

Is "all generations shall call me blessed" final or optional?

There has to be some kind of beginning point on understanding the BIBLICAL Mary. You have to go to the Old Testament for prophecy and more importantly, typology. Otherwise, we go in circles and get nowhere. Any math student has to learn how to add and subtract, they don't jump into trigonometry or calculus. So it's pointless presenting a list of questions where the answers are impossible to comprehend. Even advanced Christians studying in RCIA classes have difficulty, as do many high profile converts. If you REALLY want answers to your questions, you have to start at the beginning, keep an open mind, and do some reading. Mary does not compete with Jesus; that is just another false canard. I've asked this question 3X and never got an answer from anyone, maybe you can: Did Jesus love His mother?

Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant

Catholic Marian Doctrines: A Brief Biblical Primer

ARK, TEMPLE, TABERNACLE, AND MARY

The closer one is to God, the holier one must be (e.g., Ex 3:5, Deut 23:14). God's presence imparts holiness (1 Cor 3:13-17, 1 Jn 3:3-9). The Jewish high priest entered the "Holy of holies" in the Tabernacle or Temple only once a year, under pain of death (Lev 16:2-4,13). The Ark of the Covenant was so holy only a few could touch it (Num 4:15, 2 Sam 6:2-7). Scripture compares Mary to the Ark (Lk 1:35 & Ex 40:34-8 / Lk 1:44 & 2 Sam 6:14-16 / Lk 1:43 & 2 Sam 6:9). If mere inanimate objects can be so "holy" due to proximity with God, how much more so Mary, who bore God? Protestants often have difficulty with this conception because of their faulty view of mere external, "legal" justification, which doesn't necessarily lead to actual, objective holiness.

Dialogue with Protestants on the Irrational, Unbiblical Demand for Multiple, Explicit Scriptural Proof texts for Every Doctrine

WHY THE DEVIL HATES THE BLESSED VIRGIN SO MUCH
 

onlinebuddy

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2012
1,115
24
38

Is "all generations shall call me blessed" final or optional?

There has to be some kind of beginning point on understanding the BIBLICAL Mary. You have to go to the Old Testament for prophecy and more importantly, typology. Otherwise, we go in circles and get nowhere. Any math student has to learn how to add and subtract, they don't jump into trigonometry or calculus. So it's pointless presenting a list of questions where the answers are impossible to comprehend. Even advanced Christians studying in RCIA classes have difficulty, as do many high profile converts. If you REALLY want answers to your questions, you have to start at the beginning, keep an open mind, and do some reading. Mary does not compete with Jesus; that is just another false canard. I've asked this question 3X and never got an answer from anyone, maybe you can: Did Jesus love His mother?

Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant

Catholic Marian Doctrines: A Brief Biblical Primer

ARK, TEMPLE, TABERNACLE, AND MARY

The closer one is to God, the holier one must be (e.g., Ex 3:5, Deut 23:14). God's presence imparts holiness (1 Cor 3:13-17, 1 Jn 3:3-9). The Jewish high priest entered the "Holy of holies" in the Tabernacle or Temple only once a year, under pain of death (Lev 16:2-4,13). The Ark of the Covenant was so holy only a few could touch it (Num 4:15, 2 Sam 6:2-7). Scripture compares Mary to the Ark (Lk 1:35 & Ex 40:34-8 / Lk 1:44 & 2 Sam 6:14-16 / Lk 1:43 & 2 Sam 6:9). If mere inanimate objects can be so "holy" due to proximity with God, how much more so Mary, who bore God? Protestants often have difficulty with this conception because of their faulty view of mere external, "legal" justification, which doesn't necessarily lead to actual, objective holiness.

Dialogue with Protestants on the Irrational, Unbiblical Demand for Multiple, Explicit Scriptural Proof texts for Every Doctrine

WHY THE DEVIL HATES THE BLESSED VIRGIN SO MUCH
"All generations will call me blessed" says who? Says Mary, in her blessedness and excitement.
I love that passage, and I call her blessed too!

Talking about addition and subtraction, all the maths has been done for us and the solution has been presented to as the Gospel. We don't have to add and subtract anything. We just have to believe.

Now, I know what you mean. To me, the gospel is as simple as addition and subtraction(the basics).
Complicated extra biblical doctrines are like "trigonometry and calculus." (Although trigonometry and calculus cannot be challenged)

Scripture does not compare the arc of the covenant with Mary. These are human fabricated analogies. Nevertheless, I will give this doctrine some reasonable attention when I get some free time. I have loved ones in the Catholic church, and I would be more than happy if the Catholic church proves itself to me. It hasn't so far, and my Bible tells me not to blindly accept anything.

As for your question, "Did Jesus love his mother?"
Yes! No doubt about it! On the cross, her tears meant more to him than his own suffering. Therefore he asked his disciple John to take care of her as his mother.

 
Sep 16, 2014
1,278
23
0
I find it so sad that the Catholics have been so deceived by the Catholic Church to accept Mary as their god. They pray to Mary, they Worship Mary, in fact everything we are to do with God the Catholics do the same with Mary.

The Catholic Faith today is all about Mary. The god of the Catholic Church is Mary. Its Mary who the Catholics want to follow, not God.
 
S

sydlit

Guest
It's true some parishes are folding in a few countries, but in some areas they are not. "brainwashing little kids" is just hate speech. 2 independent reports show that Christians (mostly Catholic) in Iraq and Syria have been annihilated, but that must make you happy because then you can say parishes are folding.
Vatican wealth is a myth. Check the CIA World Report. They analyse every country in the world, including the Vatican. Click on "economy"
But I don't think you can read anything that doesn't give you a rush. (as does the spiritual pornography of anti-Catholic hate speech)

It's impossible to find stats on orphanages world wide, but let me give you information about Central and South America. Neustros Pequanos Hermanos (Our Little Brothers and Sisters) or NPH

Statistics of all NPH Homes over 2014:
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]3,417[/TD]
[TD]Total children cared for living in our homes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]463[/TD]
[TD]New arrivals in our homes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]613[/TD]
[TD]Children living with HIV that receive antiretrovirals[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]700[/TD]
[TD]Honduras Holy Family Surgery Center surgeries[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]36[/TD]
[TD]NPH university graduates[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]159[/TD]
[TD]NPH high school graduates[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1,550[/TD]
[TD]Children from low-income households that attend NPH schools[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]283[/TD]
[TD]NPH youths that earned a vocational certification[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]141[/TD]
[TD]Full-time volunteers[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]985[/TD]
[TD]NPH staff and youths that received childcare and leadership training[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]630[/TD]
[TD]Holy Sacraments (First Communion, Baptism, Confirmation, Quinceañeros)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]95,481[/TD]
[TD]Services provided through community outreach programs[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Medical Services

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]562[/TD]
[TD]Chronic conditions (children living in the homes)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]63[/TD]
[TD]HIV (children living in the homes)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1,960[/TD]
[TD]Well child visits[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]3,177[/TD]
[TD]Vaccine doses[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]88[/TD]
[TD]Hospitalized (mostly for surgeries) others for emergencies (broken arms, and traumas)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]55[/TD]
[TD]Child surgeries[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]13,205[/TD]
[TD]Physician consults[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]8,463[/TD]
[TD]Nurse consults[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1,348[/TD]
[TD]Therapies (PT, OT, Speech, Psychological)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]3,343[/TD]
[TD]Dental consults

That's just in one year.

Although each of our homes is unique and special, they do have a lot in common. They provide love and security, they stress the importance of education, and teach the values of sharing, work and responsibility.
Education is a priority. It is one of the most important tools NPH can give the children in order to break the cycle of poverty affecting their lives and to help them become independent adults. Some pequeños excel at academics and strive to earn university scholarships. Others receive vocational training in one of many trades including ceramics, carpentry, cosmetology, tourism, computer sciences, electronics, child care, and animal husbandry.

The children also gain valuable experience from their various responsibilities while growing up at the home. They help clean the dorms, prepare meals in the kitchen, translate letters from the Godparents, plant and harvest in the fields and care for the livestock. The older pequeños gain leadership skills when they oversee these tasks during a year or more of family service, sometimes even going to help at one of the homes in another country. Many serve in the role of "encargado" (dorm parent), loving, counseling and caring for their younger brothers and sisters.

The children take great pride in their work, knowing they are contributing to their family's survival.
https://www.nph.org/
I know you are too filled with irrational hatred to check out the NPH web site where there is much more info but someone else might want to.

[video=youtube;xAFul6RXCHI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAFul6RXCHI[/video][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The Church rejects atheistic evolution, and extreme magical creation comes from a strict literal interpretation of Genesis. The truths of science cannot contradict the truths of God. Truth cannot contradict truth.

Ask someone today where Western Civilization originated, and he or she might say Greece or Rome. But what is the ultimate source of Western Civilization? Bestselling author and professor Thomas E. Woods, Jr. provides the long neglected answer: the Catholic Church. In the new paperback edition of his critically-acclaimed book, How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization, Woods goes far beyond the familiar tale of monks copying manuscripts and preserving the wisdom of classical antiquity. Gifts such as modern science, free-market economics, art, music, and the idea of human rights come from the Catholic Church, explains Woods. In How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization, you'll learn:
- Why modern science was born in the Catholic Church
- How Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market economics five hundred years before Adam Smith
- How the Catholic Church invented the university
- Why what you know about the Galileo affair is wrong
- How Western law grew out of Church canon law
- How the Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life

No institution has done more to shape Western civilization than the two-thousand-year-old Catholic Church-and in ways that many of us have forgotten or never known. How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization is essential reading for recovering this lost truth.

By watching Bill Mahar?


I've never asked anyone to join the Church. If you cut out the lies and the hate I would be more inclined to take you seriously, but then you wouldn't have anything to post.
The brainwashing BEGINS when you're subjects are little kids, as evidenced by the thousands of Adults that continue to spew the same false doctrines like automatons :
•mary is an ever-virgin. LIE• The bible says Jesus had brothers and sisters, at least 4 and 2, He was probably the oldest of 7.
•mary is co-redemtrix. LIE• The bible says Jesus alone paid for our sins, and there isn't any other name under heaven whereby we MUST be saved.
If anyone says they KNOW they are saved, the cath church declares them anathema- accursed of God. LIE and HATE. •The bible says these things are written that we may KNOW we have eternal life. You LIE about salvation in Christ alone, then you use fear and HATE in order to keep others out of salvation, in order to keep them in bondage to your religious system and hold power over them.
•Thou art Peter and on this rock i will build my church. Every brainwashed cathlic repeats this, and is convinced by your hierarchy from early on that this means Peter was the first 'pope'. LIE • It was the testimony that Peter gave that is the solid truth, not Peter himself...The Lord Jesus Christ is the Rock upon which the TRUE church is built.
•Every so-called pope continues to carry out these and so many more lies, too numerous to mention here, in order to hold power, both political and spiritual, over the masses.
•Good deeds and accomplishments? No one in there right mind would argue that many good things have been done, by all kinds of churches and institutions...praise the Lord...but that's not the point here. And pointing to ones own accomplishments doesn't justify teaching lies while doing them.
What would it profit someone to gain the whole world but lose their own soul? I thank God for the many who are saved, BY JESUS, and not BECAUSE of catholics teaching, but IN SPITE of it, and not by works of righteousness which we have done...
The bible even mentions that sometimes things are meant for evil, but God can take them and turn them out for good. And the rain falls on the just and the unjust. Again, praise God for the great things that the rc church has done in a humanitarian way, that still doesn't give them the right to teach lies about Jesus and salvation.
IT ALSO DOESN'T GIVE A RIGHT TO YOU, BILL MAHER, or ANY DIRTBAG TO INSULT MY SISTER. YOU OWE MAGENTA AN APOLOGY.

(As a side note, i was referring to American parishes in my last post, and it's not welcome news if lies are spreading in latin countries. Help the poor=good, Lie to them about God=evil)
(And i pray for all those who are persecuted for believing in Jesus, whether middle-east, south amer, anywhere in the world. But they're being persecuted by evil ppl, not because of any church affiliation, but because they believe in the one true and living God, Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.)
 
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