I want to understand the Catholic faith so....

[sydlit]

Ok. I'm sorry I have little patience for slander, misrepresentations, lies, hate, etc. etc. There is nothing "Christian" about some of the posts in here. Guess what. Catholics are human beings, and we are more often than not, not treated like one. I can refute most of the garbage but what really drives you bonkers is you have no rebuttal to my posts, just more psychotic ranting. If you don't like my posts put me on ignore and stop crying about them.

You owe our sister magenta an apology. Until you're man enough to admit that what you said to her about her childhood was wrong and incredibly insulting, and you apologize for it, nothing else you say has any credibility. You merely prove your religious piety to be emptiness, and your self to be a little punk.

 

[ANGELSONGS]

According to what I understand, their questionable beliefs are Mary was the immaculate conception, born w/o sin. She also ascended into heaven after her son did. They wear medals of each saint usually to protect them. St. Christopher and so on. They believe in order to see Mary you must be in suffering, getting close to death. Mother of GOD is not to be taken like GOD had a mother. They know that. What they mean is Mary was the mother of JESUS, who is GOD. They go to Mary to intercede between man and JESUS. They have to pay penance. Then indulgences. Very few Catholics are hard core like that anymore. Their are more liberal Catholics today than hard core Roman Catholics. Mary was from the line of David. A lot of paintings show Mary with her heart pierced, which is scriptural.

 

[KenAllan]

Epostle, its the Blood of Jesus shed at the cross that washes everybody clean of their sins.

Ephesians 1:7
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Not only do we have our sins washed away by His blood, we are also JUSTIFIED by His Blood!

Romans 5:9
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

 

[Magenta]

Point or don't point to Mary? I think I know what you mean but want to make sure.

The Scriptures point to Jesus, Roman Catholics point to Mary.

 

[Magenta]

Ok. I'm sorry I have little patience for slander, misrepresentations, lies, hate, etc. etc.

Which of the following is a slanderous misrepresentation?

God several times throughout Scripture says He will not share His glory.

Catholics glorify, venerate, and adore Mary.

Jesus did not once in Scripture address Mary as His mother.

Catholics call Mary the mother of humanity and the queen of heaven.

Jesus said that anyone who did the will of God was His mother, His brother, His sister.

Jesus never elevated Mary above others.

Catholics elevate Mary above others, and put her on a par with Jesus in terms of His sinlessness.

They are forced by so-called infallible papal decree to accept the Marian dogmas of her bodily assumption and immaculate conception, neither of which have any basis whatsoever in Scripture.

Jesus told us to pray to our Father in heaven.

Catholics pray to Mary despite what Jesus explicitly instructed.

Scripture clearly states that there is one intercessor between God and man

Catholics promote Mary as an intercessor, and other dead people as well.

Within Catholicism, there is a drive to define a new Marian dogma in which Catholics, as a matter of faith, would be obliged to accept: 1) Mary participates in redemption with Jesus Christ; 2) grace is granted by Jesus only through the intercession of Mary; and 3) all prayers from the faithful must flow through Mary, who brings them to the attention of her Son.

Scripture tells us not to call anyone Father but God.

Catholics call many men "father."

Catholics believe that a fallible man is the Rock that Jesus is building His Church on.

Scripture attests to a plethora of Scriptures affirming God as the Rock of our salvation.

By any sane way of reckoning, those are ALL true
statements. Why are you insulted by the truth?

 

[KenAllan]

"Totus Tuus. This phrase is not only an expression of piety, or simply an expression of devotion. It is more. During the Second World War, while I was employed as a factory worker, I came to be attracted to Marian devotion. At first, it had seemed to me that I should distance myself a bit from the Marian devotion of my childhood, in order to focus more on Christ. Thanks to Saint Louis of Montfort, I came to understand that true devotion to the Mother of God is actually Christocentric, indeed, it is very profoundly rooted in the Mystery of the Blessed Trinity, and the mysteries of the Incarnation and Redemption".

[John Paul II in Crossing the Threshold of Hope, Arnoldo Mondadori Editori, 1994]

Pope John Paul II even admitted he WORSHIPED Mary.

Totus Tuss means "totally thine". Pope John Paul II worshiped Mary as his god.

The Catholics today have been so deceived by Satan to follow and Worship Mary as their god.

 

[KenAllan]

I see epostle you have absolutely little patience for the Truth from God in the Scriptures. To you epostle, the Scriptures are a joke.

This is to be expected in a person who has yet to receive Salvation or the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Without the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit you cannot know nor see the Truth.

Ephesians 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

This is why epostle you get so angry at the Truth in the Scriptures. This is why epostle you cannot see the Truths in the Scriptures.

Until you turn around, reject Mary and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you will never experience the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Without Salvation, without the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit you will never enter into Heaven epostle.

 

[ANGELSONGS]

How do the bread and wine turn into the actual body and blood of Christ?

That question has been going on for hundreds of years. Since the dark Ages? Thousands of early protestants were executed for just questioning that. I wish I could remember the name of that word. Transmutation? In the natural realm its just a piece of bread and wine. According to the Catholics it changes into the actual body and blood of Christ. Any belief short of that led to execution. The protestants argued that it was all done by faith, believing. Not that it actually transformed into body and blood. Check out Foxes book of martyrs.

 

[Utah]

The Scriptures point to Jesus, Roman Catholics point to Mary.

"They" as in Catholics. Got it. I was reading it as "they" meaning Scriptures, not Catholics.

Thank you, my Lady.

 

[Magenta]

"They" as in Catholics. Got it. I was reading it as "they" meaning Scriptures, not Catholics.

Thank you, my Lady.

You are welcome, with my apologies for the lack of clarity in first post

 

[Utah]

They go to Mary to intercede between man and JESUS.

Reading this stuff makes me nuts. Not that you wrote it, but that they live it.

Dumb! Dumb! Eternally dumb!

 

[epostle]

Which of the following is a slanderous misrepresentation?

God several times throughout Scripture says He will not share His glory.

True. Any "glory" Mary has comes from Christ. That should not be a problem for you. Mary is a mere , but extraordinary, human being. Any glory Magneta has comes from Christ, so if it counts for you it should count for Our Lord's mother. I would like to start at the beginning where we get the idea of the sacred. It's in the OT; without that we just go in circles.

Catholics glorify, venerate, and adore Mary.

Misleading.
If by "adore" you mean "worship of God and God alone", the statement is patently false. Catholics worship God and God alone.
We venerate Mary because God venerated her first, if you go by the dictionary definition of "venerate". It does not mean "worship". Giving highest of honors to Mary is biblical because she is blessed of all women that ever lived. We are to honor our parents, that does not mean worship our parents. There is nothing wrong with holding human beings in high esteem, or, "honor". Scripture is full of examples.

Jesus did not once in Scripture address Mary as His mother.

We tend to think "woman" has a deeper meaning than gender.
God said “woman” in Genesis 3:15, and He said “woman” in Rev. 12: >> The only two places in scripture where you have a woman anda serpent. Genesis and Revelation, the beginning and the end of theBible.
God said “women” at the Wedding of Cana, and He said “woman” while dying on the cross. The beginning and the endof his of His earthly ministry. "Woman" is not a demeaning term in bible times.

Catholics call Mary the mother of humanity and the queen of heaven.

Mother of humanity makes sense because all she wants is for people to turn to her Son. John 3:16 does not say, "for God so loved just Christians..." All the Davidic kings had queens (the mother, not the wife) with roles of intercession to the king. Queens were honored then, and Mary was obviously honored because the Jewish followers of Jesus understood the structure of the Jewish monarchy. Her queenship was taken for granted. That is not explicit in the NT but can be deduced, along with various other passages and an understanding of the structure of the Davidic Kingdom.

Jesus said that anyone who did the will of God was His mother, His brother, His sister.

Yes. That affirms her role as a perfect model of faith, unless you want to argue that Mary did not do the will of God. That's the point Jesus is making. The idea that Jesus would denigrate his mother and violate the 4th commandment (honor your parents) is unthinkable.

Jesus never elevated Mary above others.

Jesus gave his mother to all of us, represented by John, from the cross.

Catholics elevate Mary above others, and put her on a par with Jesus in terms of His sinlessness.

That's silly, Mary's sinlessness comes from the merits of the cross, (which is not linear in one direction) which made her Full of Grace. Sin cannot coexist with "Full of Grace" or its not full. She cannot possibly be "on a par with Jesus" and you won't find that in any official Catholic document over a 2000 year period.

They are forced by so-called infallible papal decree to accept the Marian dogmas of her bodily assumption and immaculate conception, neither of which have any basis whatsoever in Scripture.

There is plenty of basis in scripture, you demand explicit proof texting for everything, which is unbiblical..

Jesus told us to pray to our Father in heaven.

That does not exclude other prayers, like the Psalms.

Catholics pray to Mary despite what Jesus explicitly instructed.

Did Jesus explicitly instruct you not to asks people to pray for you? There's very little difference.

Scripture clearly states that there is one intercessor between God and man

Yes, I've been over that several times. Jesus is one intercessor between God and man. That's because He is both God and man. Mary does not take that high a role. Jesus allows subordinate intercessors, its very biblical.

Catholics promote Mary as an intercessor, and other dead people as well.

There is no such thing as a dead saint, that is a Protestant invention and nowhere in Scripture.

Within Catholicism, there is a drive to define a new Marian dogma in which Catholics, as a matter of faith, would be obliged to accept: 1) Mary participates in redemption with Jesus Christ;

so do you.

2) grace is granted by Jesus only through the intercession of Mary;

False.
Scripture tells us not to call anyone Father but God.
No, scripture says no such thing. Scripture says not to elevate anyone to the level of God the Father. Catholics don't do that.

Catholics call many men "father."

It's very scriptural.

Catholics believe that a fallible man is the Rock that Jesus is building His Church on.

No. No man is infallible. No pope is infallible. Infallibility is a negative charism given to the Church to prevent her from teaching error on matters of faith and morals.

Scripture atte sts to a plethora of Scriptures affirming God as the Rock of our salvation.

I don't contest that truth. But "rock" has many meanings in scripture.
By any sane way of reckoning, those are ALL true
statements. Why are you insulted by the truth?

Because they not all true statements. Your source for these questions, especially the way they are worded, are extremely biased. All you will get is demonizing of the Church which is the staple of billions of sites, as well as "Bible-Christian" communities who propagate hate like Jack Chick, Dave Hunt, and a legion of other deceivers. Go to the source! If you were writing a book about African-Americans, would you go to the Ku Klux Klan for information? if you want to find out something about the Catholic Church, don't go to the ones that hate her. I recommend this one:
Catholic Answers

I can't give proper answers when bulldozed by so many questions, I was rather brief. Please keep the number of objections to one or two. Thanks.

 

[Angela53510]

A good book to read on the Lord's Supper is:

The Lord's Supper: Five Views Edited by Gordan T. Smith, IVP Academic, Downer's Grove, Illinois, 2008.

It has the views of RCC, Lutheran, Reformed, Baptist and Pentecostal on the Lord's Supper plus rebuttals from the other denominations. My memory is the RCC priest really skirted a lot of issues, in the interest of "love." And one writer was very vehement, although I will leave that to the reader to discover who that was.

Sometimes reading primary sources is much better than erroneous though well intentioned internet posts.

 

[epostle]

I would like to get off this "Mary" bandwagon and get back to the OP.

Re: I want to understand the Catholic faith so....

Let's take it where it matters.

Devout Catholics Have Better Sex, Says US News and World Report


This seems like a big huge “Duh!” to me since devout Catholics also tend to insist that sex is a sacramental union of love, not just a quick hook up. They see it as involving not just the love of one’s life, but the love of God. The see children, not as a disastrous side effect, but a bonus. And they know how to party! When you go into sex full bore, as a union of body, soul, and spirit designed to bring forth children, rather than with your fingers crossed behind your back, afraid she’s going to ask you to commit, afraid you will wind up a parent, struggling with latex, and pills, and IUDs, and worried about STDs: yeah you’re going to have better sex.

It’s often forgotten that the gospel while difficult in a fallen world is nonetheless about cooperating with, not fighting against our nature as human beings. Obey God and you find that life often gets a lot less complicated and happier. Devout Catholic sex, unlike almost all modern sex, is natural. Natural stuff is easier.
Devout Catholics Have Better Sex, Says US News and World Report

Little girls do not grow up dreaming of hopping from bed to bed and contraception. They dream of a man who will sweep them off their feet and love them forever, and of having his many children. A cynicism born of the sexual revolution has brought emptiness to the hearts, wombs and lives of far too many modern women. This emptiness and pain can be avoided or redeemed and healed by the love of Christ and adherence to His teachings. The Catholic Church believes in such dreams because God wrote them on the human heart. And there are men who long for such a woman to love and cherish.

Real lovers want to give without reserve in God's own superabundance creating more hearts and lives to love. Contraception is like kissing through a screen door and real love cannot tolerate obstacles. Contraception breeds selfishness and separation that drives a wedge between husband and wife that kills love. Real lovers want their love to explode into the posterity of future generations for all eternity.This is the kind of passion and fulfillment God wants for His children. Contraception limits what should be boundless. It spits in the face of this glorious passion and love's true abandon; and that is why it is a sin. It seeks to "tame" love, thus killing it. The Catholic Church is the last bastion on earth of true romance.The modern world has suffocated love and made sex a thing of deadness.
lifeissues.net | Contraception the Love Killer

 

[Blain]

I would like to get off this "Mary" bandwagon and get back to the OP.

Re: I want to understand the Catholic faith so....

Let's take it where it matters.

Devout Catholics Have Better Sex, Says US News and World Report


This seems like a big huge “Duh!” to me since devout Catholics also tend to insist that sex is a sacramental union of love, not just a quick hook up. They see it as involving not just the love of one’s life, but the love of God. The see children, not as a disastrous side effect, but a bonus. And they know how to party! When you go into sex full bore, as a union of body, soul, and spirit designed to bring forth children, rather than with your fingers crossed behind your back, afraid she’s going to ask you to commit, afraid you will wind up a parent, struggling with latex, and pills, and IUDs, and worried about STDs: yeah you’re going to have better sex.

It’s often forgotten that the gospel while difficult in a fallen world is nonetheless about cooperating with, not fighting against our nature as human beings. Obey God and you find that life often gets a lot less complicated and happier. Devout Catholic sex, unlike almost all modern sex, is natural. Natural stuff is easier.
Devout Catholics Have Better Sex, Says US News and World Report

Little girls do not grow up dreaming of hopping from bed to bed and contraception. They dream of a man who will sweep them off their feet and love them forever, and of having his many children. A cynicism born of the sexual revolution has brought emptiness to the hearts, wombs and lives of far too many modern women. This emptiness and pain can be avoided or redeemed and healed by the love of Christ and adherence to His teachings. The Catholic Church believes in such dreams because God wrote them on the human heart. And there are men who long for such a woman to love and cherish.

Real lovers want to give without reserve in God's own superabundance creating more hearts and lives to love. Contraception is like kissing through a screen door and real love cannot tolerate obstacles. Contraception breeds selfishness and separation that drives a wedge between husband and wife that kills love. Real lovers want their love to explode into the posterity of future generations for all eternity.This is the kind of passion and fulfillment God wants for His children. Contraception limits what should be boundless. It spits in the face of this glorious passion and love's true abandon; and that is why it is a sin. It seeks to "tame" love, thus killing it. The Catholic Church is the last bastion on earth of true romance.The modern world has suffocated love and made sex a thing of deadness.
lifeissues.net | Contraception the Love Killer

..........This thread isn't about sex....

 

[blue_ladybug]

Umm, you're wrong here.. the bible DOES indeed say not to call any man their "father" except Him. So Magenta was right in her assessment. First you say the bible says no such thing, then you contradict yourself and say it IS scriptural..


Scripture tells us not to call anyone Father but God.
No, scripture says no such thing. Scripture says not to elevate anyone to the level of God the Father. Catholics don't do that.

Catholics call many men "father."


It's very scriptural.




So which is it? Is calling earthly men father, scriptural or not?

 

[Angela53510]

I would like to get off this "Mary" bandwagon and get back to the OP.

Re: I want to understand the Catholic faith so....

Let's take it where it matters.

Devout Catholics Have Better Sex, Says US News and World Report


This seems like a big huge “Duh!” to me since devout Catholics also tend to insist that sex is a sacramental union of love, not just a quick hook up. They see it as involving not just the love of one’s life, but the love of God. The see children, not as a disastrous side effect, but a bonus. And they know how to party! When you go into sex full bore, as a union of body, soul, and spirit designed to bring forth children, rather than with your fingers crossed behind your back, afraid she’s going to ask you to commit, afraid you will wind up a parent, struggling with latex, and pills, and IUDs, and worried about STDs: yeah you’re going to have better sex.

It’s often forgotten that the gospel while difficult in a fallen world is nonetheless about cooperating with, not fighting against our nature as human beings. Obey God and you find that life often gets a lot less complicated and happier. Devout Catholic sex, unlike almost all modern sex, is natural. Natural stuff is easier.
Devout Catholics Have Better Sex, Says US News and World Report

Little girls do not grow up dreaming of hopping from bed to bed and contraception. They dream of a man who will sweep them off their feet and love them forever, and of having his many children. A cynicism born of the sexual revolution has brought emptiness to the hearts, wombs and lives of far too many modern women. This emptiness and pain can be avoided or redeemed and healed by the love of Christ and adherence to His teachings. The Catholic Church believes in such dreams because God wrote them on the human heart. And there are men who long for such a woman to love and cherish.

Real lovers want to give without reserve in God's own superabundance creating more hearts and lives to love. Contraception is like kissing through a screen door and real love cannot tolerate obstacles. Contraception breeds selfishness and separation that drives a wedge between husband and wife that kills love. Real lovers want their love to explode into the posterity of future generations for all eternity.This is the kind of passion and fulfillment God wants for His children. Contraception limits what should be boundless. It spits in the face of this glorious passion and love's true abandon; and that is why it is a sin. It seeks to "tame" love, thus killing it. The Catholic Church is the last bastion on earth of true romance.The modern world has suffocated love and made sex a thing of deadness.
lifeissues.net | Contraception the Love Killer

Hmm! Your link to Catholics having better sex doesn't lead to any studies or any kind of objective comparision between committed Protestants vs Catholics. Or for that matter, a Catholic married to an alcoholic who stayed with him for years, in spite of his adulteries and terrible sex. (A close friend of mine!)

Committed Protestants, in my experience have great sex. Because they are committed to God first, and then to their spouse.

The Catholic Church is far from being the last "bastion" of love's true romance. I'm living the dream and I promise you, my husband and I both repudiate most of of the major doctrines of the RCC, especiallly soteriology!

We are saved by faith alone in Jesus Christ.

 

[Utah]

Umm, you're wrong here.. the bible DOES indeed say not to call any man their "father" except Him. So Magenta was right in her assessment. First you say the bible says no such thing, then you contradict yourself and say it IS scriptural..


Scripture tells us not to call anyone Father but God.
No, scripture says no such thing. Scripture says not to elevate anyone to the level of God the Father. Catholics don't do that.

Catholics call many men "father."


It's very scriptural.




So which is it? Is calling earthly men father, scriptural or not?

Popcorn! Popcorn! Get your hot, buttered popcorn!

Can't wait to read his rebuttal on this one, Angela.

 

[GaryA]

I would like to get off this "Mary" bandwagon and get back to the OP.

Re: I want to understand the Catholic faith so....

Let's take it where it matters.

Devout Catholics Have Better Sex, ...

So -- the thing that matters the most about being Catholic is ... sex???

What?

You want to take this thread where? Into the bedroom?

What?



Pssssst! You should stop digging now -- before the hole gets any deeper...

 

[onlinebuddy]

=>Did Jesus give Mary an exalted position?
[SUP]31[/SUP]Then Jesus' mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him.[SUP]32[/SUP]A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you."[SUP]33[/SUP]"Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked.[SUP]34[/SUP]Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers![SUP]35[/SUP]Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."[Mark 3:31-35]

[SUP]27[/SUP]As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you."[SUP]28[/SUP]He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."[Luke 11:27]

We see clearly that the Lord gave the Word of God priority over the person of Mary and above the belief of Mary, as the mother of God.

You don't see Mary doing the will of God and Jesus using her as an example for all of us?? Or is Jesus denigrating his mother in public thus violating the 4th commandment? Pick one.

I'm not saying Mary did not do the will of God. I'm saying Jesus never exalted her the way catholics do.
Yes, and please point out to me where Jesus used her as an example for us.
The catholic church exalts Mary to a very high position that scripture never allowed; that too by overemphasizing the facts in Luke 1.

Or is Jesus denigrating his mother in public thus violating the 4th commandment? Pick one.

In Luke 11:27-28, Jesus nipped in the bud any suggestion of mother worship or mother-son worship. History is replete with instances of mother worship or mother-son worship or goddess worship or worship of the "queen of heaven."

This pagan practice of mother-son worship was started in Babylon by a wicked adulteress called Semiramis, the wife of Nimrod. She introduced mother son worship, the mother being herself and the son being Tammuz (whom she exalted as God). She was worshiped as the "queen of heaven" and the "mother of god." This gave rise to images of a mother holding an infant in her arms. All throughout history similar practices have been carried out in various cultures. Needless to mention, God hates such pagan practices!

Jesus, in his wisdom, did not entertain any discussion that hinted at mother worship or mother-son worship. However, sadly, the catholic church as successfully established this practice all over again, by exalting Mary with half truths and lies. Thus Jesus has been sidetracked in the lives of many catholics, and they (sadly) don't even realize it.