If Perchance Catholicism Is Mistaken

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Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Great parable.

As you quoted in a previous. . . .



The day, hour, year or century know man knows its not for those who walk by faith to know.

I was reminded of Revelation 1: 19. It introduces the signified language spoken of in verse 1

Revelation 1: 19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Its like a timeless revelation called signified understanding in the opening verse of Revelation1 . past, future, preset. Going back in time to help understand the later use. . or forward to show from the foundation to its completion. A book of wonderments done in parables as signified language of God .Hiding the unseen spiritual understanding form natural man (no faith) . As a method to teach us to walk by faith . . .hear God not seen..

The view of a thousands eyes of one who owns all of the cattle on a thousand hills (unknown) shewing mercy unto thousands(unknown) of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

The word thousand set aside as a metaphor used to seek out the understanding of parables . signifying a unseen unknown as to whatever is in view to include time a temporal.

Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

Ecclesiastes 6:6Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

2 Peter 3:8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Many have literalized the word thousand and converted it into either a thousand years is a day , or a thousand years is a literal thousand years even though we are nearing a literal two thousand . Then did the days begin and what the word last day means . The word thousand is used throughout the bible to represent a unknown. He will come like a thief in the night on the last day those day began when the time of reformation came , it is finished the veil is rent..

Revelation 20:2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Revelation 20:3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Amen

and,

"Watch for your life's sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord will come. But come together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls."

Didache 16:1-4
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Is this link say the antichrist government already come?
No, it's the Wikipedia article about apocalyptic literature.

The article talks about how apocalyptic literature uses things like symbols and numbers that require wisdom to understand.

Like the book of Revelation talks about the number 666. It says let the one that has wisdom understand. I've read many explanations of what 666 stands for, and they all seem about equally possible.

But maybe the people back then new how to decode that number.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Some people did for political reason, some because disappointed with the church etc. but I do not believe Bible teach people pray to Mary, or apostle tradition pray to Mary.

I am not anti catholic, but love them, so I tell them that devil deceived them

If I hate them, I will not care for they salvation
Well, you probably reached that conclusion reading the Bible for yourself, as an individual.

An interesting thing to think about is that before the printing press, a good Bible would probably cost about $50,000 US to produce, the wages of a skilled Craftsman for about one year.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Growth as a Christian takes an entire lifetime. Christians do not have doubts about the gospel because the Holy Spirit removes all doubt. The tempter will come and endeavor to create uncertainty but that in itself is a witness that what we have is real and genuine.

Scripture speaks of growth going from babes to those of maturity.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I agree, no questions about the gospel.

but a person can have questions about how to interpret the scriptures after they come to Christ.

I have different interpretations of certain passages then I did years ago, even though I am certain that I was a Christian the entire time.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Amen

and,

"Watch for your life's sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord will come. But come together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls."
16:1-4
Who is Didache?
 
Mar 11, 2014
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It's a biblical commentary based on the catechism of the Catholic church.
If it is seen as based on the catechism of the Catholic church, then the Catholic church and its catechism must have been around since basically the time of the apostles.
 

garee

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Mar 28, 2016
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Didache means teaching. It short for
The teaching of The twelve apostles.
I would offer. No man can serve two teaching masters. Even the Son of man, Jesus refused to stand in the father's unseen place of Glory called good Master .

According to the sword of the Spirit .Hebrews chapter 1 informs us that in these last days the father has spoken through the Son working in Jesus, with him to both will and do the good pleasure . Sort of like a object lesson or parable. Two working as one to bring the peace of God it surpasses our limited understanding.

Matthew 19:16-18 King James Version (KJV) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Sola scriptura all things written in the law and the prophets is the nemesis of Didache. . . a private revelation as a interpretation of mankind given by mystics a false sense of wonderment as source of faith, not using the word prophets.

The teaching is about The twelve apostles not of, coming from the 12 but as a idealism a continuation of those who walk by sight as if the kingdom of God did come by observation. Their hope or idealism is by looking at the things seen.

It does fulfill its requirement they received the reward self edification. a assumed kingdom that comes by observation. No faith needed that comes from hearing God alone.

The teaching of those sent with the words as thoughts of a unseen God are not attributed to the flesh of mankind. How beautiful are the feet of those sent . Not words that came as their own thoughts. "Sent ones" with no other meaning added.... defines the word "apostle".

Teachings of other men as if we needed a man to teach us. . . holding onto the word "apostle" after another manner, a law of the fathers also called apostolic succession .Those who lord it over the faith of those non venerable. A Pagan foundation . And not according to its inspired meaning with no other meaning added.

The apostles were falsely worshiped in that way (gods in the likeness of men Acts 14:11) .Thinking of men seen above that as it is written . Puffing up their flesh of their sect above that of another.

1 Corinthians 4:6-7 King James Version (KJV) And these things, brethren, I have in a figure (parable) transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Paul answered that violation of adding meaning to a word ( Deuteronomy 4:2) as in this case it did destroy the usage where the word was used making it without effect .

Adding new meaning is like the crime of Plagiarism, a form of blasphemy, and a violation of the first commandment. Deuteronomy 4:2 protecting the integrity. The other not to add or subtract the warning is in Revelation 22, the whole as the last direct revelation written. . . .sealed with 7 seals till the end of time. Both working as one security guard.

This idea venerating (worshipping) the flesh of the fathers gives the idea of more than just sent ones.(apostle)

Apostle, a term used when a person would send a another with a list from the sender author .

The feet get no glory as if God was served by the flesh and not by the new spirit. . zealous to do the will of one not seen .

Paul asked .What do we have that we have not freely received with no cost on our behalf and if you did receive why would you seek to be worshiped or venerated as if a person did not? God will not share his glory with the corrupted clay he is forming Christ in.

Catholisicim has destroyed the meaning of the word "apostle" destroying its intended usage. wherever the word is found.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,445
783
113
I would offer. No man can serve two teaching masters. Even the Son of man, Jesus refused to stand in the father's unseen place of Glory called good Master .

According to the sword of the Spirit .Hebrews chapter 1 informs us that in these last days the father has spoken through the Son working in Jesus, with him to both will and do the good pleasure . Sort of like a object lesson or parable. Two working as one to bring the peace of God it surpasses our limited understanding.

Matthew 19:16-18 King James Version (KJV) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Sola scriptura all things written in the law and the prophets is the nemesis of Didache. . . a private revelation as a interpretation of mankind given by mystics a false sense of wonderment as source of faith, not using the word prophets.

The teaching is about The twelve apostles not of, coming from the 12 but as a idealism a continuation of those who walk by sight as if the kingdom of God did come by observation. Their hope or idealism is by looking at the things seen.

It does fulfill its requirement they received the reward self edification. a assumed kingdom that comes by observation. No faith needed that comes from hearing God alone.

The teaching of those sent with the words as thoughts of a unseen God are not attributed to the flesh of mankind. How beautiful are the feet of those sent . Not words that came as their own thoughts. "Sent ones" with no other meaning added.... defines the word "apostle".

Teachings of other men as if we needed a man to teach us. . . holding onto the word "apostle" after another manner, a law of the fathers also called apostolic succession .Those who lord it over the faith of those non venerable. A Pagan foundation . And not according to its inspired meaning with no other meaning added.

The apostles were falsely worshiped in that way (gods in the likeness of men Acts 14:11) .Thinking of men seen above that as it is written . Puffing up their flesh of their sect above that of another.

1 Corinthians 4:6-7 King James Version (KJV) And these things, brethren, I have in a figure (parable) transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Paul answered that violation of adding meaning to a word ( Deuteronomy 4:2) as in this case it did destroy the usage where the word was used making it without effect .

Adding new meaning is like the crime of Plagiarism, a form of blasphemy, and a violation of the first commandment. Deuteronomy 4:2 protecting the integrity. The other not to add or subtract the warning is in Revelation 22, the whole as the last direct revelation written. . . .sealed with 7 seals till the end of time. Both working as one security guard.

This idea venerating (worshipping) the flesh of the fathers gives the idea of more than just sent ones.(apostle)

Apostle, a term used when a person would send a another with a list from the sender author .

The feet get no glory as if God was served by the flesh and not by the new spirit. . zealous to do the will of one not seen .

Paul asked .What do we have that we have not freely received with no cost on our behalf and if you did receive why would you seek to be worshiped or venerated as if a person did not? God will not share his glory with the corrupted clay he is forming Christ in.

Catholisicim has destroyed the meaning of the word "apostle" destroying its intended usage. wherever the word is found.
Lots of good ideas in your post!

Let's start here
"Sola scriptura all things written in the law and the prophets is the nemesis of Didache..."

Are you saying that the Didache is not scripture? Did the holy Spirit tell you that?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Lots of good ideas in your post!

Let's start here
"Sola scriptura all things written in the law and the prophets is the nemesis of Didache..."

Are you saying that the Didache is not scripture? Did the holy Spirit tell you that?

Yes he did. 66 books. (sola scriptura)

Nothing new under the Sun just a persons over view. . no requirements as to how we can hear God. No mention of a queen of heaven the heart of Catholicism .

Its easy to see that is a private interpretation of man as a personal commentary an overview of what he believes.

Using personal pronouns to give the illusion God is bringing private revelation (vanity) making the warning not to add or substract from all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura).

It would seem the goal. . . create a doubt in a possibility of new revelation that could be added to a book sealed with 7 seals until the last day a ray of false hope .

We are not to take the name as the authority of God in vain. . . attributing the private revelations of men because some Queen mother will be happy. It has been revealed for what it is, another gospel, another kind of mediator other than as it is written .

The foundation of necromancy those living seeking after workers with familiar spirits called patron saints .A alternative source of faith coming from that not seen fleshly illusion. . . .making the one manner without effect . Pray or enquire this manner "our Father in heaven" not our dead relatives that have returned to dust.. . . or some father on earth (3500 and rising na many waiting the approval of the Pope..the Catholic daysaman .

Sola scriptura is the reforming authority in any generation and denomination . Worked in the first century and again in the fifteenth. It could work tomorrow restoring the true government.


Pope Urban
VIII, 1623-1644: "In cases which concern private revelations, it is better to believe than not believe, for if you believe, and it is proven true, you will be happy that you have believed, because our Holy Mother asked it. If you believe and it shall be proven false, you will receive all blessings as if it had been true, because you believed it to be true."
 
Mar 11, 2014
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Yes he did. 66 books. (sola scriptura)

Nothing new under the Sun just a persons over view. . no requirements as to how we can hear God. No mention of a queen of heaven the heart of Catholicism .

Its easy to see that is a private interpretation of man as a personal commentary an overview of what he believes.

Using personal pronouns to give the illusion God is bringing private revelation (vanity) making the warning not to add or substract from all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura).

It would seem the goal. . . create a doubt in a possibility of new revelation that could be added to a book sealed with 7 seals until the last day a ray of false hope .

We are not to take the name as the authority of God in vain. . . attributing the private revelations of men because some Queen mother will be happy. It has been revealed for what it is, another gospel, another kind of mediator other than as it is written .

The foundation of necromancy those living seeking after workers with familiar spirits called patron saints .A alternative source of faith coming from that not seen fleshly illusion. . . .making the one manner without effect . Pray or enquire this manner "our Father in heaven" not our dead relatives that have returned to dust.. . . or some father on earth (3500 and rising na many waiting the approval of the Pope..the Catholic daysaman .

Sola scriptura is the reforming authority in any generation and denomination . Worked in the first century and again in the fifteenth. It could work tomorrow restoring the true government.
I see. And in your view, does God tell all Christians that those same 66 books are scripture, and that nothing else is scripture?
 
May 17, 2013
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I agree, no questions about the gospel.

but a person can have questions about how to interpret the scriptures after they come to Christ.

I have different interpretations of certain passages then I did years ago, even though I am certain that I was a Christian the entire time.
There is no doubt that the Roman Catholic church teaches a different gospel and a different gospel is no gospel but it is a lie. It is not a matter of interpretation or a matter of lack of a bible. It is an intentional lie and many souls are lost because they have been deceived by it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 11, 2014
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There is no doubt that the Roman Catholic church teaches a different gospel and a different gospel is no gospel but it is a lie. It is not a matter of interpretation or a matter of lack of a bible. It is an intentional lie and many souls are lost because they have been deceived by it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Well, before one can say whether the Catholic Church teaches a different gospel than what is contained in the scriptures, one first has to properly interpret the whole of the scriptures to know what they say about the gospel.

So again, are the scriptures properly interpreted by the individual Reading alone? Or by the body of Christ working together?
 
May 17, 2013
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Well, before one can say whether the Catholic Church teaches a different gospel than what is contained in the scriptures, one first has to properly interpret the whole of the scriptures to know what they say about the gospel.

So again, are the scriptures properly interpreted by the individual Reading alone? Or by the body of Christ working together?
The bible is clear on the gospel. The death burial and resurrection of Christ is the gospel. We receive the finished work of Christ by grace not by works. Rome teaches grace received by sacraments and works of contrition.

The gospel is intensely personal and not exercised by corporate exercise. Jesus deals with and receives every soul on a personal basis.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Feb 6, 2014
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Well, before one can say whether the Catholic Church teaches a different gospel than what is contained in the scriptures, one first has to properly interpret the whole of the scriptures to know what they say about the gospel.

So again, are the scriptures properly interpreted by the individual Reading alone? Or by the body of Christ working together?
Different gospel,

Gospel never teach purgatory catholic gospel teach

Gospel never teach pray to the death catholic gospel teach

Gospel never teach islam worship Abraham God, catholic gospel teach

Gospel prohibit bow before statue catholic pope did
 
Mar 11, 2014
7,445
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The bible is clear on the gospel. The death burial and resurrection of Christ is the gospel. We receive the finished work of Christ by grace not by works. Rome teaches grace received by sacraments and works of contrition.

The gospel is intensely personal and not exercised by corporate exercise. Jesus deals with and receives every soul on a personal basis.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
1 Corinthians 15: 1. Now I declare to you, brothers, the Good News which I preached to you, which also you received, in which you also stand, 2. by which also you are saved, if you hold firmly the word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4. that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

Yes, the basics of the Gospel.
And the Bible also says other things
1 Timothy 2: 14. Adam wasn't deceived, but the woman, being deceived, has fallen into disobedience; 15. but she will be saved through her childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and sanctification with sobriety.

So that's a different approach to salvation.

1 Corinthians 7: 13. The woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he is content to live with her, let her not leave her husband. 14. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified in the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified in the husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.

It looks like there is some kind of bleed over between spouses and children. how sanctification is related to salvation in the above verses is a matter of interpretation of course.

James 5: 14. Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the assembly, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord, 15. and the prayer of faith will heal him who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

That's interesting to me, calling for the elders, being anointed with oil, and that process results in the forgiveness of sins.
Also that word heal above? In the Greek it's the same word as save.
So the prayer of faith will save the sick.

So yes, the basics of the Gospel I think the Catholics agree with. But looking through the rest of the scriptures, there are issues of interpretation.
 
Mar 11, 2014
7,445
783
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The bible is clear on the gospel. The death burial and resurrection of Christ is the gospel. We receive the finished work of Christ by grace not by works. Rome teaches grace received by sacraments and works of contrition.

The gospel is intensely personal and not exercised by corporate exercise. Jesus deals with and receives every soul on a personal basis.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Also in the longer ending of Mark, I believe Jesus says that the one who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

But other places seem to be focused just on believing, not believing plus being baptized equaling salvation.

But then we would want to know if the longer ending of Mark was scripture or not.
 
May 17, 2013
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1 Corinthians 15: 1. Now I declare to you, brothers, the Good News which I preached to you, which also you received, in which you also stand, 2. by which also you are saved, if you hold firmly the word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4. that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

Yes, the basics of the Gospel.
And the Bible also says other things
1 Timothy 2: 14. Adam wasn't deceived, but the woman, being deceived, has fallen into disobedience; 15. but she will be saved through her childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and sanctification with sobriety.

So that's a different approach to salvation.

1 Corinthians 7: 13. The woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he is content to live with her, let her not leave her husband. 14. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified in the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified in the husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.

It looks like there is some kind of bleed over between spouses and children. how sanctification is related to salvation in the above verses is a matter of interpretation of course.

James 5: 14. Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the assembly, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord, 15. and the prayer of faith will heal him who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

That's interesting to me, calling for the elders, being anointed with oil, and that process results in the forgiveness of sins.
Also that word heal above? In the Greek it's the same word as save.
So the prayer of faith will save the sick.

So yes, the basics of the Gospel I think the Catholics agree with. But looking through the rest of the scriptures, there are issues of interpretation.
You are wrong. Roman Catholics do not believe the same gospel. They teach a gospel which is not the gospel a gospel of works. Grace is not received through sacraments but by faith in the word of God regarding Christ.

Only God can forgive sin. We can pray and anoint with oil but only God who ministers in the heart can forgive sin. Adjust your reading accordingly.

Which baptism is Mark 16 speaking to? Baptism of water or baptism of Holy Spirit?

Is sanctification the same as salvation? Nope only those who become saved can progress toward sanctification. Can the walk of a believer testify of Christ before their family and thereby draw them to Christ who will save them?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 11, 2014
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Different gospel,

Gospel never teach purgatory catholic gospel teach

Gospel never teach pray to the death catholic gospel teach

Gospel never teach islam worship Abraham God, catholic gospel teach

Gospel prohibit bow before statue catholic pope did
I think the gospel is a particular thing
1 Corinthians 15: 1. Now I declare to you, brothers, the Good News which I preached to you, which also you received, in which you also stand, 2. by which also you are saved, if you hold firmly the word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4. that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5. and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

Good news of course is just another way of saying the gospel in English.

Different Christian groups then have other teachings for example about speaking in tongues or whether it's good for a Christian fellowship group to own a building. I don't think there's anything in the scriptures about fellowshipping in a building. Some people say there just should be house churches.