If Perchance Catholicism Is Mistaken

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Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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You are wrong. Roman Catholics do not believe the same gospel. They teach a gospel which is not the gospel a gospel of works. Grace is not received through sacraments but by faith in the word of God regarding Christ.

Only God can forgive sin. We can pray and anoint with oil but only God who ministers in the heart can forgive sin. Adjust your reading accordingly.

Which baptism is Mark 16 speaking to? Baptism of water or baptism of Holy Spirit?

Is sanctification the same as salvation? Nope only those who become saved can progress toward sanctification. Can the walk of a believer testify of Christ before their family and thereby draw them to Christ who will save them?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Of course you can simply state
You are wrong
But I believe you are using a particular interpretation of the scriptures.

Is the longer ending of Mark scripture? I think that would be the question to ask before talking about what kind of baptism the passage is referring to.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
13,308
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Of course you can simply state
You are wrong
But I believe you are using a particular interpretation of the scriptures.

Is the longer ending of Mark scripture? I think that would be the question to ask before talking about what kind of baptism the passage is referring to.
It is there so we must deal with it. God would not allow it to be there if it were not scripture. We must however use great care to interpret it in the context of the rest of scripture about which there is no doubt.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I think the gospel is a particular thing
1 Corinthians 15: 1. Now I declare to you, brothers, the Good News which I preached to you, which also you received, in which you also stand, 2. by which also you are saved, if you hold firmly the word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4. that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5. and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

Good news of course is just another way of saying the gospel in English.

Different Christian groups then have other teachings for example about speaking in tongues or whether it's good for a Christian fellowship group to own a building. I don't think there's anything in the scriptures about fellowshipping in a building. Some people say there just should be house churches.
Felloship in a house or building is not prohibit by the bible, but bow infront of ststue is.

And what wrong to felloship in the building?

John 4:21-24 King James Version (KJV)

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Jesus teach us not care where we worship, as long as we worship in the spirit and thruth

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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I see. And in your view, does God tell all Christians that those same 66 books are scripture, and that nothing else is scripture?
Yes sealed with seven seals. (sola scriptura) Faith that comes from hearing God alone . . . not men seen called venerable "fathers" .

One is our Holy Father and teacher in heaven. we are commanded to call no man Pope (daysman) on earth..

Catholics must believe he is still bringing new one called private revelations, the same kind of oral tradition as revelations of men that wrote the private hidden secret revelation between testaments called the Apocrypha . No silent time for them the mystics are busy.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,827
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Dan_473 said:


Of course you can simply state You are wrong

But I believe you are using a particular interpretation of the scriptures.

Is the longer ending of Mark scripture? I think that would be the question to ask before talking about what kind of baptism the passage is referring to.
The kind is found in John 3:25 having to do with the old manner as a Levite like John the baptist . A change was coming. The desire to become a priest symbolized ceremonially by h20. the time of reformation had come , Jesus from the tribe of Judah performing the parable as prophecy

The kind of baptism

John3: 24-27 For John was not yet cast into prison.Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.ohn answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

The other kind of Baptism of the Spirit. . . . not seen is not ceremonial what the eyes see but the unseen working one that does work in out hearts. . . the unseen witness of faith
 
Mar 11, 2014
7,453
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It is there so we must deal with it. God would not allow it to be there if it were not scripture. We must however use great care to interpret it in the context of the rest of scripture about which there is no doubt.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
When you say that it is in there, do you mean it as in the longer ending of Mark? And in there as in the Bible?

There are many bibles available today, and they don't all have the same number of books or the same number of verses.

Which Bible, or better yet, which manuscript is the correct text of the scriptures?

If the Bible is intended by God to be read by each individual by themselves and for themselves, doesn't it make sense then that each individual ought to decide for themselves which is scripture and which is not?

These days, if you have internet access, you can take any number of public domain versions of documents generally considered by one group or another to be scripture and sift through them on your own to compile your own personal set of scriptures.

But if you say this is not a good idea, and I expect that you will, then what person or group has been authorized by God to say which documents are scripture and which are not?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,827
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When you say that it is in there, do you mean it as in the longer ending of Mark? And in there as in the Bible?

There are many bibles available today, and they don't all have the same number of books or the same number of verses.

Which Bible, or better yet, which manuscript is the correct text of the scriptures?

If the Bible is intended by God to be read by each individual by themselves and for themselves, doesn't it make sense then that each individual ought to decide for themselves which is scripture and which is not?

These days, if you have internet access, you can take any number of public domain versions of documents generally considered by one group or another to be scripture and sift through them on your own to compile your own personal set of scriptures.

But if you say this is not a good idea, and I expect that you will, then what person or group has been authorized by God to say which documents are scripture and which are not?
He commands (not a suggestion) us to study in order to seek His approval. Not that of men seen warnings us of those who say we do need and man seen to teach us (the MO of the antichrists) .

He as our one teacher in heaven. he performs and does the authorizing and approving . And is not adding any other words to his book of the law.

Sola scriptura all things written in the law and the prophets is the reforming authority in any generation. It worked to prove itself true protecting the integrity of God word in the 1st century reformation, as well as the 15th. Or whenever two of three gather together under his authority .(sola scriptura) he is there restoring his government of faith.

Both the 1st century and the 15th century were under a law of the fathers .They as commandments of men tried to make sola scriptura the heresy and the heresies of men's private interpretation the governing law. This showed they walked by sight hoping in the things seen .Killing the misperceived competition wrestling between flesh and blood . Like Cain with Abel. . out of sight out of mind (no faith needed)

Un like born again Paul who had become a member of the Nazarene sect. The Catholic sect not mentioned in the Bible.

Rather than worshipping or venerating the law of the father (lording it over the pew sitters. beliefs ) Paul according to God's law worshipped the unseen God of the fathers, They had no faith as it is written in the law and the prophets(sola scriptura) .Not the fathers seen as gods( many) that they called apostolic succession. Men following men .

Note God not seen 'law . The law of corrupted men seen
For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law5-6

Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way (God's law) which they call "heresy", so worship I the God of my fathers, (not the fathers as gods) believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:
 
Jun 30, 2015
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Not that of men seen warnings us of those who say we do need and man seen to teach us (the MO of the antichrists) .
Garee, PLEASE go and take a class in basic written English.

The above is so poorly constructed that it neither makes sense nor does it qualify as a sentence.

You're smart enough to read the Bible; that's good. Apply that same wisdom and learn to communicate your ideas clearly.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Garee, PLEASE go and take a class in basic written English.

The above is so poorly constructed that it neither makes sense nor does it qualify as a sentence.

You're smart enough to read the Bible; that's good. Apply that same wisdom and learn to communicate your ideas clearly.

Yes I should of added the word this as in, this warns of those.
 
Jun 30, 2015
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Yes I should of added the word this as in, this warns of those.
… and you should have used the word have instead of the word of (bolded) in this post.

Garee, I assure you: I bear you no ill will. I think you have some interesting insights into Scripture. However, your limited ability with written English not only hinders your ability to communicate your ideas, but it seems to limit your ability to understand Scripture as well. I encourage you to take a class in basic English grammar because I know that it will help you in both areas.

You remind others to "study to show yourselves approved". Would it not make sense for you to learn proper English grammar for the same reason?
 
Mar 11, 2014
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Felloship in a house or building is not prohibit by the bible, but bow infront of ststue is.

And what wrong to felloship in the building?

John 4:21-24 King James Version (KJV)

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Jesus teach us not care where we worship, as long as we worship in the spirit and thruth

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
The reason I brought up Church buildings is that it's something not mentioned in the Bible. So just because something isn't mentioned, that doesn't mean we can't do it.

Now about the pope bowing in front of a statue, I'm not familiar with that situation. Do you feel that he was worshipping an idol? But even if you was, though, Popes sin just like other humans.

And of course Apostles also sin.
Galatians 2: 11. But when Peter came to Antioch, I resisted him to his face, because he stood condemned.
 
Mar 11, 2014
7,453
784
113
Yes sealed with seven seals. (sola scriptura) Faith that comes from hearing God alone . . . not men seen called venerable "fathers" .

One is our Holy Father and teacher in heaven. we are commanded to call no man Pope (daysman) on earth..

Catholics must believe he is still bringing new one called private revelations, the same kind of oral tradition as revelations of men that wrote the private hidden secret revelation between testaments called the Apocrypha . No silent time for them the mystics are busy.
When did this sealing of the 66 books take place, in your view?

If we go by scripture only, then I think it would need to be someplace in the scriptures where it says when the 66 books were sealed.

Was the longer version of Mark sealed, or the shorter version?
 
Mar 11, 2014
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The kind is found in John 3:25 having to do with the old manner as a Levite like John the baptist . A change was coming. The desire to become a priest symbolized ceremonially by h20. the time of reformation had come , Jesus from the tribe of Judah performing the parable as prophecy

The kind of baptism

John3: 24-27 For John was not yet cast into prison.Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.ohn answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

The other kind of Baptism of the Spirit. . . . not seen is not ceremonial what the eyes see but the unseen working one that does work in out hearts. . . the unseen witness of faith
The longer ending of Mark is scripture then?
 
Mar 11, 2014
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784
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He commands (not a suggestion) us to study in order to seek His approval. Not that of men seen warnings us of those who say we do need and man seen to teach us (the MO of the antichrists) .

He as our one teacher in heaven. he performs and does the authorizing and approving . And is not adding any other words to his book of the law.

Sola scriptura all things written in the law and the prophets is the reforming authority in any generation. It worked to prove itself true protecting the integrity of God word in the 1st century reformation, as well as the 15th. Or whenever two of three gather together under his authority .(sola scriptura) he is there restoring his government of faith.

Both the 1st century and the 15th century were under a law of the fathers .They as commandments of men tried to make sola scriptura the heresy and the heresies of men's private interpretation the governing law. This showed they walked by sight hoping in the things seen .Killing the misperceived competition wrestling between flesh and blood . Like Cain with Abel. . out of sight out of mind (no faith needed)

Un like born again Paul who had become a member of the Nazarene sect. The Catholic sect not mentioned in the Bible.

Rather than worshipping or venerating the law of the father (lording it over the pew sitters. beliefs ) Paul according to God's law worshipped the unseen God of the fathers, They had no faith as it is written in the law and the prophets(sola scriptura) .Not the fathers seen as gods( many) that they called apostolic succession. Men following men .

Note God not seen 'law . The law of corrupted men seen
For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law5-6

Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way (God's law) which they call "heresy", so worship I the God of my fathers, (not the fathers as gods) believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:
What is it that we are commanded to study in your view? The scriptures only? Or other things in addition to the scriptures?
 
Feb 6, 2014
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The reason I brought up Church buildings is that it's something not mentioned in the Bible. So just because something isn't mentioned, that doesn't mean we can't do it.

Now about the pope bowing in front of a statue, I'm not familiar with that situation. Do you feel that he was worshipping an idol? But even if you was, though, Popes sin just like other humans.

And of course Apostles also sin.
Galatians 2: 11. But when Peter came to Antioch, I resisted him to his face, because he stood condemned.
It is in the bible that Jesus teach to worship God is in spirit and thruth, It do not matter where, jerusalem or mountain and It mean a pleace not the problem

And bow infront of statue is pagan tradition bible say No.


Leviticus 26:1 King James Version (KJV)

26 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God.

Yes every body sin, but that kind of sin (bow Down infront of statue) is easy to avoid. A pope must not do It.

Sin that even me a bad sinner not do It, why pope do It? It because catholic is satanic religion
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
10,827
918
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What is it that we are commanded to study in your view? The scriptures only? Or other things in addition to the scriptures?
The commandment is to seek his approval not seen which is the prescription for faith. (not looking to the fathers seen) This is accomplished as we rightfully divide His word. And not the approval of venerable men according to the laws of men ,or oral traditions.

2 Timothy 2:15 [Full Chapter] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

The Catholic church take the private interpretations of men called them scared tradition and make both the same Devine power. Its what those in Acts 24 were preforming. They insisted that Paul get under the authority of their law of men following men and not the law of God (sola scriptura) .The 66 chapter book .

Not the sacred oral traditions as a law of the fathers. No man can serve two teaching master as one Devine source of faith

You would think that at least they would of listed Sacred Scripture first . But it is needed to make sola scriptura without effect Again no man can serve two teaching masters as Devine

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (No. 80-82) speaks of scripture and tradition in this way: Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture…are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to …
It is because or those doctrines or laws of men that Catholicism has done despite to the grace of God. It would seem to be classified as a damnable heresy one we can judge and ofer the gospel at that which they must do depoite to by denying the fulnes of Hid s grace coming form his work of faith alone..

Not all oral traditions of men do despite to the grace of God. From my experience the grace problem must be resolved first and foremost even before they can male some sort of claim to what I call empty fame. .
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,453
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It is in the bible that Jesus teach to worship God is in spirit and thruth, It do not matter where, jerusalem or mountain and It mean a pleace not the problem

And bow infront of statue is pagan tradition bible say No.


Leviticus 26:1 King James Version (KJV)

26 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God.

Yes every body sin, but that kind of sin (bow Down infront of statue) is easy to avoid. A pope must not do It.

Sin that even me a bad sinner not do It, why pope do It? It because catholic is satanic religion
Right, it doesn't matter where we worship. So the owning of a church building can sometimes be a stumbling block for a group of Christians, because now they have something to protect!
Matthew 5: 42. Give to him who comes with a request, and keep not your property from him who would for a time make use of it.

Why do Church buildings then have locks on the doors?

Interestingly, Protestant Church buildings are often locked unless there is an activity going on. The side doors of Catholic buildings are usually open during the day.

If I understand right, there is a large Church in Surabaya over there by you in Indonesia that meets in a huge sports arena. I think that's a great idea! Less property means less things to fight over!
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,453
784
113
It is in the bible that Jesus teach to worship God is in spirit and thruth, It do not matter where, jerusalem or mountain and It mean a pleace not the problem

And bow infront of statue is pagan tradition bible say No.


Leviticus 26:1 King James Version (KJV)

26 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God.

Yes every body sin, but that kind of sin (bow Down infront of statue) is easy to avoid. A pope must not do It.

Sin that even me a bad sinner not do It, why pope do It? It because catholic is satanic religion
Again, I'm not sure what situation you're talking about with the Pope bowing down to something.

I have seen Protestants bow down in front of a cross, I think I've probably done that myself.

If it is the use of three-dimensional objects in worship that you are concerned about, well, you probably already know that different Church groups throughout history have had different ideas about it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniconism_in_Christianity
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
7,453
784
113
The commandment is to seek his approval not seen which is the prescription for faith. (not looking to the fathers seen) This is accomplished as we rightfully divide His word. And not the approval of venerable men according to the laws of men ,or oral traditions.

2 Timothy 2:15 [Full Chapter] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

The Catholic church take the private interpretations of men called them scared tradition and make both the same Devine power. Its what those in Acts 24 were preforming. They insisted that Paul get under the authority of their law of men following men and not the law of God (sola scriptura) .The 66 chapter book .

Not the sacred oral traditions as a law of the fathers. No man can serve two teaching master as one Devine source of faith

You would think that at least they would of listed Sacred Scripture first . But it is needed to make sola scriptura without effect Again no man can serve two teaching masters as Devine



It is because or those doctrines or laws of men that Catholicism has done despite to the grace of God. It would seem to be classified as a damnable heresy one we can judge and ofer the gospel at that which they must do depoite to by denying the fulnes of Hid s grace coming form his work of faith alone..

Not all oral traditions of men do despite to the grace of God. From my experience the grace problem must be resolved first and foremost even before they can male some sort of claim to what I call empty fame. .
When you talk about rightly dividing the word, it seems to me that being able to say what is scripture and what is not would be part of that.
 
May 17, 2013
13,308
1,714
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When you say that it is in there, do you mean it as in the longer ending of Mark? And in there as in the Bible?

There are many bibles available today, and they don't all have the same number of books or the same number of verses.

Which Bible, or better yet, which manuscript is the correct text of the scriptures?

If the Bible is intended by God to be read by each individual by themselves and for themselves, doesn't it make sense then that each individual ought to decide for themselves which is scripture and which is not?

These days, if you have internet access, you can take any number of public domain versions of documents generally considered by one group or another to be scripture and sift through them on your own to compile your own personal set of scriptures.

But if you say this is not a good idea, and I expect that you will, then what person or group has been authorized by God to say which documents are scripture and which are not?
I do not argue scripture. All of the bible is Gods word. It is divinely inspired and divinely preserved for us. It is able to make us wise unto salvation. The Holy Spirit has been using the word of God to bring men to a saving knowledge of Christ longer than there has been an English translation.

The Roman catholic church endeavored to keep the bible from the masses by first translating it into Latin from the Hebrew and Greek. No one in the pews save a very small minority could understand Latin. I say let the textual critics argue among themselves. The bible has a practical and vital role to exercise in bringing men to Christ. Everything in the bible points to Christ and the need of every man to be saved from his sin or perish in the lake of fire for all eternity.

For the cause of Christ
Roger