IF 'THE DEAD' don't rise then who do we rule and reign over?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 15, 2021
1,494
216
63
Specifically, where are they now? In heaven, on earth? Or where? If on earth, how come no one has ever come across any of these resurrected persons?
What happened to there is nothing more to discuss? Either there is or there isn't.
 
Dec 15, 2021
1,494
216
63
The saved dead will receive glorified bodies. The unsaved dead will have their physical bodies die again. So they aren't th same in that sense. Not sure what you are referring to.
where is it written that the UNSAVED DEAD WILL HAVE THEIR PHYSICAL BODIES DIE AGAIN?
 
Dec 15, 2021
1,494
216
63
The saved dead will receive glorified bodies.

It's like asking someone who believes in 'the rapture theory' 'when is the church raised up to heaven' and they NEVER ANSWER.


SO I ASK AGAIN, HOW ARE THOSE WHO NEVER DIE BEING RAISED FROM THE DEAD?

I can't answer the question BECAUSE I BELIEVE JESUS when He says we will never die. YOU OBVIOUSLY don't because you have SAVED souls being RAISED FROM THE DEAD.

To be raised from the dead you have to be amongst the dead to be amongst the dead you have to die. To die is the OPPOSITE OF NEVER DIE.

SO I ASK AGAIN, how are those who never die being raised from the DEAD?
 

montana123

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2021
854
286
63
We are not going to rule and reign over each other but we will rule and reign over THE DEAD who have been resurrected. For 1000 years, those resurrected when Christ returns HAVE NOT yet BEEN JUDGED. AND there WONT BE another judgment day FOR 1000 YEARS.


Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


AND ONCE THEY HAVE BEEN JUDGED SOME TO EVERLASTING LIFE SOME TO 2ND DEATH

THEN

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


NOTICE WHO ISN'T JUDGED AT THE GWTJ? THOSE WHO WERE JUDGED on their last day when they went to be where CHRIST IS, in heaven, at the right hand of God, who will be returning with Him, to rule and reign OVER THE DEAD. (just and unjust until they are judged)

Luke 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

Luke 9:57 And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him, Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.

Luke 9:58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Luke 9:59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

Luke 9:61 And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.

Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.



SPIRITUALLY DEAD. DIED UNSAVED. RESURRECTED UNSAVED. NOT TESTED. NOT PROVED. NOT DISCIPLINED. DIDN'T HAVE THE FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND THE PROPHETS so didn't understand, didn't come to knowledge. Will remain spiritually dead until judgment and only then will their name either be found in the book of life or it wont.


Don't agree? Please share what is written that CONFLICTS, or what is written that is made void.
The battle of Armageddon is when the New Age Christ, antichrist, and the world attack Jerusalem which then the LORD God will come and fight against the world and defeat them and leave a 6th of their army alive which Jesus and the saints will rule over these people for a thousand years.

Which the LORD will be King over all the earth, and in that day there shall be one LORD and His name one, and the people that God spared have to go up year after year to Jerusalem to worship the LORD and keep the feast of tabernacles.

Jesus said until one jot or tittle will pass from the law until all is fulfilled which includes all the roles of Israel.

But Jesus has not fulfilled the role of perfect King on earth yet because He came as a humble servant so during the millennial reign Jesus will fulfill the role of the perfect King on earth fulfilling the law and heaven and earth shall pass away and there will be a new heaven and earth.

At the end of the 1000 years the heathen attack the saints and God consumes them with fire which they still have punishment coming for following the beast but God postponed it until at the end of the millennial reign.

Then the dead shall rise and be judged and then they saints will go to a new earth where sin has never been and sin will never be which no heathen can enter that earth.
 
Dec 15, 2021
1,494
216
63
I think this is irrelevant. There are only saved and unsaved people when they die. Their future is set in stone.
And that is the problem. You are arguing from a place of milk and standing FIRM on issues you have not enough knowledge about to be doing so.


We have covered this enough times to say enough. Enough
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
939
113
But Jesus has not fulfilled the role of perfect King on earth yet because He came as a humble servant so during the millennial reign Jesus will fulfill the role of the perfect King on earth fulfilling the law and heaven and earth shall pass away and there will be a new heaven and earth.
You are claiming Jesus was/is imperfect! Who are you or any man to claim the Son of God to be imperfect ? He is the Potter we the clay ... you have the tail wagging the dog. Unbelievable !

There are good reason there are verbal battles in forums the above post being one of them. He is the prefect King then now and forever .
 
Dec 15, 2021
1,494
216
63
. Likewise in the 1000 year reign of Jesus there will be a King ,,, The KING OF KINGS himself and resurrected Saints who shall be a priesthood ruling the world with Jesus and the Jewish descendants of the 144.000 redeemed who will live in the 1000 year kingdom that will cover the lands defined by God when He gave that promise to Abraham in the O T..

So stop with this false representation of my position..

OK. Don't remember when or how but if you say so.


HOW DO YOU GET JEWISH descendants of the 144,000, when the 144,000 is the 12 and not the one?
 

montana123

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2021
854
286
63
You are claiming Jesus was/is imperfect! Who are you or any man to claim the Son of God to be imperfect ? He is the Potter we the clay ... you have the tail wagging the dog. Unbelievable !

There are good reason there are verbal battles in forums the above post being one of them. He is the prefect King then now and forever .
I am not saying Jesus is not perfect for He is the perfect King right now but I am saying that He has to be King on earth ruling to fulfill the law.

The law has to be fulfilled including the roles of Israel which are king, high priest, and prophet, and whatever role has to be fulfilled.

I am not saying Jesus is not perfect but only pointing out He has to be a perfect King on earth which I should of said King instead of perfect King so someone like you would not take it wrong.

I was only wording it like that perfect King in comparison to human rulership that is imperfect but I should of said King and not perfect King.

Jesus is perfect now and always was perfect and always will be perfect.
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
939
113
I am not saying Jesus is not perfect for He is the perfect King right now but I am saying that He has to be King on earth ruling to fulfill the law.

The law has to be fulfilled including the roles of Israel which are king, high priest, and prophet, and whatever role has to be fulfilled.

I am not saying Jesus is not perfect but only pointing out He has to be a perfect King on earth which I should of said King instead of perfect King so someone like you would not take it wrong.

I was only wording it like that perfect King in comparison to human rulership that is imperfect but I should of said King and not perfect King.

Jesus is perfect now and always was perfect and always will be perfect.
Your words are written in post #186. Post #190 confirms your believe He is/was imperfect. Showing a preference of your theology over that of God the Son . Not unlike those who worship the creation over the Creator.

You state "The law has to be fulfilled including the roles of Israel which are king, high priest, and prophet, and whatever role has to be fulfilled."

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
 
Dec 15, 2021
1,494
216
63
But Jesus has not fulfilled the role of perfect King on earth yet because He came as a humble servant so during the millennial reign Jesus will fulfill the role of the perfect King on earth fulfilling the law and heaven and earth shall pass away and there will be a new heaven and earth.
By that are you referring of these? If not, which ones?

Hebrews 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

Hebrews 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Hebrews 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Hebrews 2:12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

And/or this

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Isaiah 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.


Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
 

montana123

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2021
854
286
63
By that are you referring of these? If not, which ones?

Hebrews 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

Hebrews 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Hebrews 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Hebrews 2:12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

And/or this

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Isaiah 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.


Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
I am only saying that Jesus has to be King over all the earth during the millennial reign because he did not rule over the world when he preached to the Jews.

Jesus is always perfect because He is God.
 

montana123

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2021
854
286
63
Your words are written in post #186. Post #190 confirms your believe He is/was imperfect. Showing a preference of your theology over that of God the Son . Not unlike those who worship the creation over the Creator.

You state "The law has to be fulfilled including the roles of Israel which are king, high priest, and prophet, and whatever role has to be fulfilled."

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
I am only saying that Jesus has to be King over all the earth during the millennial reign because he did not rule over the world when he preached to the Jews.

Jesus is always perfect because He is God.
 

Truth01

Active member
May 7, 2022
119
35
28
You're not God, Mr All Red, Bold Caps. 😂
It's quite obvious that she was referencing people ruling over other people. Creation over creation, not Creator over creation.
With God to rule is to serve. The greatest is the lowest and the servant. If you have children you should have the desire to rule over them fairly(to serve themso that they can make it in life a become good people that will eventually no longer need your rulership over them. People on earth view rulership as someone sitting above others and lording power over them, but heaven talks and views rulership as one person serving others humbly. God is our ruler, and the greatest servant of us all.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
FreeGrace2 said:
The verse says "able to destroy soul". It does not say WILL destroy souls. And there are no other verses that say WILL destroy souls.
What about all those who's names were not found written in the book?
What about it? Give me the verse and let's examine what it does say.

Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
GOD a CONSUMING FIRE - DEVOURED THEM whose number is as the sand of the sea.

What exactly do you think that means?
I believe exactly what the verses say. All living unbelievers will be killed at the battle of Gog and Magog.

This also indicates to me that only unbelievers will enter the Millennial reign of Christ in mortal bodies. All believers will be resurrected and receive glorified bodies "when He comes" at the Second Advent, which is shown in Rev 20:4,5. Though the text only mentions tribulation martyrs, it's clear from other verses that there will be just ONE resurrection of the saved and it will include ALL believers.

So the phrase "the rest of the dead" in v.5 refers to the unbelievers who have already died. So the ONLY people left to populate the earth during the Tribulation will be unbelievers, those who survive the Tribulation.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
FreeGrace2 said:
The saved dead will receive glorified bodies. The unsaved dead will have their physical bodies die again. So they aren't th same in that sense. Not sure what you are referring to.
Who are the SAVED DEAD?
The saved dead are all the believers who physically died before Jesus Christ returns at the Second Advent.

Remember, all saved people will receive glorified bodies "when He comes" at the Second Advent, both the previously dead and the living believers who "are alive and remain til the coming of the Lord".
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
FreeGrace2 said:
All unbelievers will be raised up for the GWT judgment. That is found by reading through Rev 20.
What about the UNJUST that are raised up when Christ returns? Are they SAVED?
I don't know about any "unjust" that are raised up "when He comes". What verse or passage says this?

What I do know is that only the saved will be resurrected "when He comes", plus the living believers will be changed (glorified).

I'm not aware that any "unjust" will be resurrected until AFTER the Millennial reign and the battle of Gog and Magog.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
FreeGrace2 said:
Specifically, where are they now? In heaven, on earth? Or where? If on earth, how come no one has ever come across any of these resurrected persons?
What happened to there is nothing more to discuss? Either there is or there isn't.
Your reply doesn't answer my questions. Can you answer them? Actually, they don't even relate to my questions.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
FreeGrace2 said:
The saved dead will receive glorified bodies. The unsaved dead will have their physical bodies die again. So they aren't th same in that sense. Not sure what you are referring to.
where is it written that the UNSAVED DEAD WILL HAVE THEIR PHYSICAL BODIES DIE AGAIN?
First, the Bible says there will be a resurrecton for the saved and the unsaved. Acts 24:15. John 5:28,29

Revelation calls the lake of fire the "second death". Since we KNOW unbelievers will be resurrected, it will be their physical bodies that will die AGAIN. Hence, a second death.