If the saved that is dead is in heaven ,With GOD ,Why dose the BIBLE say that the dead can not PRAISE the LORD .

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soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
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#61
I do not believe that they are in Heaven myself ,Neither do I believe that the BIBLE teaches , that they are in Heaven ,
Do you believe Ecclesiastes 12?
7. and the dust returns to the earth as it was,
and the life’s breath[z] returns to God who gave it.

FOOTNOTE
[z] tn
Or “spirit.” The likely referent is the life’s breath that originates with God. See Eccl 3:19, as well as Gen 2:7; 6:17; 7:22.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#62
I do not believe that they are in Heaven myself ,Neither do I believe that the BIBLE teaches , that they are in Heaven ,
Being in Christ we are currently with him ' spiritually seated in the heavenly places. Absent from the BODY present with the Lord . The redemption of the body is when we shall be like him . Conformed to his image. But we are in two places at once now as strange as it sounds
Eph 1.3 3¶Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Eph 2.6

6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#63
I do not believe that they are in Heaven myself ,Neither do I believe that the BIBLE teaches , that they are in Heaven ,
....huh?
Not only are they there but are worshipping with the Angel's
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests

Btw that was rev 5
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#65
You have the comma in the wrong place ,JESUS Didn't GO to paradise that DaY . JOHN 20:17 HE told Marry 3 days after HE died on the Cross That HE had NOT ascended to the the Father . It should say ,And JESUS said unto him , verily I say unto thee today, Shall thou be with ME in paradise,
Oh yeah
I remember someone else pulling the "comma deal",not too long ago.

Amazing how man so cunningly reframes verses.

....as if those sly changes voids out other verses.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#66
Here let me help. Are our loved ones already with Christ? If they have to be resurrected at His coming—they must not be. I believe our lost loved ones are asleep; they have no awareness of time.

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6: “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.”

Psalms 6:5: “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?”

Psalms 30:9: “What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?”

Psalms 115:17: “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”

Isaiah 38:18: “For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.”

Psalms 88:10-12: “Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah. Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction? Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

Psalms 115:17: “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”

Job 14:12-17 “So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands. For now thou numberest my steps: dost thou not watch over my sin? My transgression is sealed up in a bag, and thou sewest up mine iniquity.
Two sided debate.

Now research the the ones in heaven.

Either side makes a case,but soul sleep would ,in the end,(unintentional pun) lose out.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,885
26,047
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#67
If the saved that is dead is in heaven ,With GOD ,Why dose the BIBLE say that the dead can not PRAISE the LORD .

I do not believe that they are in Heaven myself ,Neither do I believe that the BIBLE teaches , that they are in Heaven ,
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies. And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"
 
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washburn Tn
#68
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies. And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"
You are right ,When YESUAH come back, HE will slay the wicked by the Brightness, Then he will resurect the that is saved and they will go up to meat HIM IN the AIR, THEN those that remain will be changed and go up to meet them in the air, THEY go to heaven for A 1000 years for the Judgement of the LOST . And after the 1000 years the new Jerusalem, will come down from god out of heaven, with the saved in the CITY, And set down on the earth, AND All the lost will be resurrected, AND Satan will deceive them into trying to take the city from the Saints, And the BIBLE SAYS THAT THE FIRE WILL COME DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN, AND DEVOUR THEM, AND AFTER THEY HAVE PAID FOR THEIR SINS THEY WILL BE ASHES UPON THE GROUND JUST LIKE MALACHI 4:1-3 tells us will happen
4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.
THE BIBLE TELLS US THAT AFTER THEY HAVE BURNT THAT THERE WILL NOT EVEN BE A COAL TO WARM AT
They have died TWICE AND TURN TO ASHES THE SECOND TIME, THEY WILL BE TURN TO ASHES ON THE GROUND, AND THE RIGHTEOUS WILL TREAD DOWN THEIR ASHES ON THE EARTH, THEN YESUAH WILL RENEW THIS EARTH FOR THOSE THAT WAS SAVED AND THERE WILL BE NO MORE DEATH< AND JOY FOR THE SAINTS FOR EVER, AND EVER
ISAIAH 47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: [there shall] not [be] a coal to warm at, [nor] fire to sit before it. THE FIRE CAN NOT BE PUT OUT< AND THAT IS WHAT QUINCH MEANS THAT IT CAN'T BE PUT OUT, BUT IT DOSE GO OUT , WHEN Satan AND ALL THE LOST IS TURN TO ASHES< AND PAYED FOR THEIR SINS,
DUST THOU ART AND TO DUST THOU SHALT RETURN, GOD DOSE NOT LIE, WHEN GOD SAID ,
2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. IF THE LOST LIVE IN THE LAKE OF FIRE FOR EVER THEN GOD WOULD HAVE LIED, BUT THEY DON'T THEY WILL BE TURN TO ASHES JUST LIKE GOD SAYS THEY WILL, ALL THOUGH THE THE BIBLE, Satan is the one that said that they would not DIE,
NOW WHO ARE YOU GOING TO BELIEVE, GOD THAT THE LOST WILL DIE , OR Satan THAT TELLS YOU THAT YOU WILL NOT DIE,
GOD BLESS as GOD sees GOOD FOR YOU ALL
 
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washburn Tn
#69
Do you believe Ecclesiastes 12?
7. and the dust returns to the earth as it was,
and the life’s breath[z] returns to God who gave it.

FOOTNOTE
[z] tn
Or “spirit.” The likely referent is the life’s breath that originates with God. See Eccl 3:19, as well as Gen 2:7; 6:17; 7:22.
SIIRIT = BREATH NOT A live spirit or Ghost, THE DEAD KNOW NOT ANYTHING
ECC 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
1,369
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#70
SIIRIT = BREATH NOT A live spirit or Ghost, THE DEAD KNOW NOT ANYTHING
ECC 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.
That's correct. The dust that was the mortal flesh knows nothing after death.
Our spirit, soul, is not flesh.
 
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washburn Tn
#71
That's correct. The dust that was the mortal flesh knows nothing after death.
Our spirit, soul, is not flesh.
THE SPIRIT IS JUST OUT BREATH THAT GOD GIVE, TO TRY TO SAY THAT THE SINNER HAS ETURNAL LIFE IN HELL MAKES GOD A LIAR, BUT MOST PEOPLE WANT TO BELIEVE Satan OVER GOD, I PREY THAT GOD OPENS YOUR EYES THOUGH HIS WORD LIKE HE HAS ME, AND I HAFT TO SAY THAT IT WAS VERY GOOD TO LEARN< AND PRAISE GOD FOR THAT HE HAS OPEN MY EYES TO THIS LIE OF Satan
 
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washburn Tn
#72
That's correct. The dust that was the mortal flesh knows nothing after death.
Our spirit, soul, is not flesh.
IF YOU HAD A LIVE SPIRIT WHEN YOU DIED YOU WOULD KNOW THINGS AND REMEMBER THINGS< BUT THE BIBLE SAYS .
ECC 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.
 
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washburn Tn
#73
IF YOU HAD A LIVE SPIRIT WHEN YOU DIED YOU WOULD KNOW THINGS AND REMEMBER THINGS< BUT THE BIBLE SAYS .
ECC 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.
If spirits don't have Memory and NO love and no hatred, WHY IS HE TRYING TO DESTROY US, THOSE THE BELIEVE THAT THE LOST HAVE ETURNAL LIFE IS VERY DECEIVED BY Satan,
 
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washburn Tn
#74
If spirits don't have Memory and NO love and no hatred, WHY IS HE TRYING TO DESTROY US, THOSE THE BELIEVE THAT THE LOST HAVE ETURNAL LIFE IS VERY DECEIVED BY Satan,
When GOD said that there would BE no more DEATH, GOD MEANS IT , WHEN GOD SSAID THAT YOU WILL SURELY DIE < GOD MEANT IT, END TO SAY THAT THE LOST HAVE ETURNAL LIFE< MAKES GOD A LIAR< GOD DOSE NOT LIE,
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#75
When GOD said that there would BE no more DEATH, GOD MEANS IT , WHEN GOD SSAID THAT YOU WILL SURELY DIE < GOD MEANT IT, END TO SAY THAT THE LOST HAVE ETURNAL LIFE< MAKES GOD A LIAR< GOD DOSE NOT LIE,
Are you watchtower?
No sayin you are...but what group agrees with you?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#76
From www:


""Jehovah's Witnesses believe that when a person dies, their existence completely stops. This is because the Bible makes it clear that human beings do not have an immortal soul that survives when the body dies.Witnesses believe that Hell (as traditionally portrayed) does not exist.""
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,318
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#79
I do not believe that they are in Heaven myself ,Neither do I believe that the BIBLE teaches , that they are in Heaven ,
If you are titling your thread upon Isaiah 38:18, I believe it is referring to the wicked, that will taste of the second death at the last day, which is everlasting hell. Luke 9:60, Jesus said unto him, let the dead bury their dead. Meaning let the spiritually dead, bury their dead, indicating that the man that Jesus was talking to was already born again spiritually.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,318
1,185
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#80
Here let me help. Are our loved ones already with Christ? If they have to be resurrected at His coming—they must not be. I believe our lost loved ones are asleep; they have no awareness of time.

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6: “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.”

Psalms 6:5: “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?”

Psalms 30:9: “What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?”

Psalms 115:17: “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”

Isaiah 38:18: “For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.”

Psalms 88:10-12: “Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah. Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction? Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

Psalms 115:17: “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”

Job 14:12-17 “So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands. For now thou numberest my steps: dost thou not watch over my sin? My transgression is sealed up in a bag, and thou sewest up mine iniquity.
Eccl 12:7, Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.