If we are going to keep the SABBATH the 7th day, in HEAVEN, Why are not people keeping it now ???
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For the record, even though my wife is an SDA I don't believe that they are the 'true' church either, but rather just another body of believers in Christ. Jesus said that wherever 2 or 3 are gathered in His name He would be in the midst of them.
You are correct about the Sunday observance being associated with the mark of the beast. I don't believe this to be accurate because as it now stands, most people in the world don't even attend church regardless of the day being Saturday or Sunday.
However, the SDA do believe that salvation comes from contrite confession of sin, Jesus dying of the cross for the remission of sin and that by inviting the Holy Spirit to live inside you He will comfort and guide you in the lifelong repentance process.
Many years ago I used to read the Plain Truth, a monthly magazine put out by the World Wide Church of God. Interesting reading but not really scripturally sound.
Yes, the Sabbath is a core belief of the SDA. Since the forth commandment states to 'remember' to keep holy the Sabbath, this doctrine has spiritual basis that merits serious consideration in my opinion. Yeah, they got a lot of dietary rules that the members are urged to follow but also say that it is not a sin if one choses to disregard them.
As a denomination I would have to say that the SDA is a spiritually sound body of believers but what do I know since I was born and raised a Catholic. That particular denomination has its share of spiritual issues as well but there is a firm spiritual correct salvation message, Yeah, they throw in a lot of side issues that are spiritually suspect as well that distract from the gospel message.
You are correct about the Sunday observance being associated with the mark of the beast. I don't believe this to be accurate because as it now stands, most people in the world don't even attend church regardless of the day being Saturday or Sunday.
However, the SDA do believe that salvation comes from contrite confession of sin, Jesus dying of the cross for the remission of sin and that by inviting the Holy Spirit to live inside you He will comfort and guide you in the lifelong repentance process.
Many years ago I used to read the Plain Truth, a monthly magazine put out by the World Wide Church of God. Interesting reading but not really scripturally sound.
Yes, the Sabbath is a core belief of the SDA. Since the forth commandment states to 'remember' to keep holy the Sabbath, this doctrine has spiritual basis that merits serious consideration in my opinion. Yeah, they got a lot of dietary rules that the members are urged to follow but also say that it is not a sin if one choses to disregard them.
As a denomination I would have to say that the SDA is a spiritually sound body of believers but what do I know since I was born and raised a Catholic. That particular denomination has its share of spiritual issues as well but there is a firm spiritual correct salvation message, Yeah, they throw in a lot of side issues that are spiritually suspect as well that distract from the gospel message.
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I'm not passing judgment on them, because I don't know their spiritual state. I don't know whether they repented at the last minute, either. However I'm on a forum where there are individuals with the agenda to prove evangelical Christianity is false, amongst other things, and spreading misinformation.
Maybe in your postmodern view, I shouldn't be doing that. Tough
Maybe in your postmodern view, I shouldn't be doing that. Tough
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The BIBLE says THAT they KEEP the Commandments of GOD, REVELATION 12":17; which keep the commandments of GOD, and have the Testimony of JESUS, REV 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: Here are they that keep the commandments of GOD, and the faith of JESUS, REV 22:14 Blessed are they that do HIS COMMANDMENTS , THAT THEY MAY HAVE RIGHT TRO THE TREE OF LIFE, AND MAY ENTER IN THROUGHTHE GATES INTO THE CITY.
THE Seveneth day IS about the ONLY CHURCH THAT tells US that we NEED to KEEP the COMMANDMENTS, ALL the OTHER CHURCHS THAT I KNOW OF, SAY THAT WE DON'T NEED to keep THE COMMANDMENTS ANY MORE, AND DO ERROW FROM THE TRUTH, SO they are the CLOSEST , THAT I KNOW OF TODAY. GOD BLESS AS HE SEES FIT,
THE Seveneth day IS about the ONLY CHURCH THAT tells US that we NEED to KEEP the COMMANDMENTS, ALL the OTHER CHURCHS THAT I KNOW OF, SAY THAT WE DON'T NEED to keep THE COMMANDMENTS ANY MORE, AND DO ERROW FROM THE TRUTH, SO they are the CLOSEST , THAT I KNOW OF TODAY. GOD BLESS AS HE SEES FIT,
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So what happened to those jots and tittles?
You say because they were "on the side" of the ark you can just throw them out?
Weren't they AT LEAST considered jots and tittles?
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
I don't have any problem with you choosing your favorite OT Laws to try and obey. I think its even a little cute that you actually think you are keeping them.
I just think it should bother you that some of the scripture you use to justify your position actually shows you that the Law is an ALL or NOTHING deal.
You either trust in your performance at the law 100%.
Or you trust in your performance 0% but rather trust in Christ and His Performance.
Seems like an easy decision to me. But I've already made it.
SDA's are correct in thinking that Sabbath is the make or break line between who is a saved Christian and who is not. But this Rest is in Christ and is not a Law to be observed.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
How do you guys miss this such an important fundamental part of Christianity?
(You know Sabbath means Rest, right?)
In the same way that the Lord has fulfilled the jots and tittles of sacrifice He has also fulfilled the jots and tittles of Sabbath. This was prophesied in Ezekiel.
Ezekiel 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
2 Corinthians 3:5-6
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
This all seems really straightforward and simple to me. If you look to the Law to try and work at it and be obedient to it that way is DEATH. You can't do it. It doesn't give you the Righteousness needed in order to be in the Presence of God.
If you look to Christ and receive Salvation and Rest you will receive the Righteousness necessary to be in Gods Kingdom.
Shouldn't your work at the law already have shown you this?
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
We're justified by faith. We are made Righteous by faith. The law can't do any of these things for us. All it can do is condemn and drive you to a SAVIOUR.
Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
I'm just thankful that there are a few Christians who have read the bible for themselves and have this fundamental understanding of what Christianity truly is. Like the Bereans.
You say because they were "on the side" of the ark you can just throw them out?
Weren't they AT LEAST considered jots and tittles?
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
I don't have any problem with you choosing your favorite OT Laws to try and obey. I think its even a little cute that you actually think you are keeping them.
I just think it should bother you that some of the scripture you use to justify your position actually shows you that the Law is an ALL or NOTHING deal.
You either trust in your performance at the law 100%.
Or you trust in your performance 0% but rather trust in Christ and His Performance.
Seems like an easy decision to me. But I've already made it.
SDA's are correct in thinking that Sabbath is the make or break line between who is a saved Christian and who is not. But this Rest is in Christ and is not a Law to be observed.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
How do you guys miss this such an important fundamental part of Christianity?
(You know Sabbath means Rest, right?)
In the same way that the Lord has fulfilled the jots and tittles of sacrifice He has also fulfilled the jots and tittles of Sabbath. This was prophesied in Ezekiel.
Ezekiel 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
2 Corinthians 3:5-6
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
This all seems really straightforward and simple to me. If you look to the Law to try and work at it and be obedient to it that way is DEATH. You can't do it. It doesn't give you the Righteousness needed in order to be in the Presence of God.
If you look to Christ and receive Salvation and Rest you will receive the Righteousness necessary to be in Gods Kingdom.
Shouldn't your work at the law already have shown you this?
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
We're justified by faith. We are made Righteous by faith. The law can't do any of these things for us. All it can do is condemn and drive you to a SAVIOUR.
Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
I'm just thankful that there are a few Christians who have read the bible for themselves and have this fundamental understanding of what Christianity truly is. Like the Bereans.
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This is how I see it. Let me know what yous all think.
The first six days of creation there was morning and there was evening.
The seventh day does not end with there was morning and there was evening.
Because of his sins man is stuck in the seventh day. The Sabbath shows man this.
Man is stuck in a cycle. 1,2,3,4,5,6 7, rest and repeat...1,2,3,4,5,6 7, rest and repeat...
Man is stuck in the 7th day.
God has chosen to wait with man in the 7th day, instead of leaving man and moving on to the 8th creation day without man, God has chosen to wait with man in the 7th day, and rest from His creating. Because of this God commanded man to honor Him by also resting/waiting on the Sabbath ( every 7th day)
Jesus lived a sinless life, rose from the dead, and broke through to the 8th day
day 1----------day 2----------day 3----------day 4---------day 5---------day 6---------day 7--------day 8
Sun ------------Mon-----------Tues-----------Wed----------Thurs-----------Fri-----------Sat-----------Sun
10th-------------------------------------------------------------14th--------------------------------------Resurrection
Day 1 = Palm Sunday where the people chose Jesus
Day 1 = 10th day when the people chose the passover lamb
Day 4 = 14th day Killing of the passover lamb (blood) and eating flesh of lamb and eating unleavened (bread)
Day 4 = Jesus institutes new ordinance the Lord's Supper eating wine (blood) and eating (bread) which no longer has to be unleavened for He has Risen.
Jesus is then sacrificed on the next day after replacing the Passover meal with the Lord's supper.
Jesus rests in the grave the entire 7th day (symbolic of sabbath rest).
Jesus Christ breaks the 7 day cycle and rises from the dead on the 8th day.
Those who are in Christ Jesus have the promise of being created anew on the 8th day.
Although we still live in the 7th day, those who are in Christ Jesus have received the promise of the 8th day. Therefore honoring the Sabbath is no longer required for those who are in Christ, because like Christ they too have the promise of the 8th day.
The first six days of creation there was morning and there was evening.
The seventh day does not end with there was morning and there was evening.
Because of his sins man is stuck in the seventh day. The Sabbath shows man this.
Man is stuck in a cycle. 1,2,3,4,5,6 7, rest and repeat...1,2,3,4,5,6 7, rest and repeat...
Man is stuck in the 7th day.
God has chosen to wait with man in the 7th day, instead of leaving man and moving on to the 8th creation day without man, God has chosen to wait with man in the 7th day, and rest from His creating. Because of this God commanded man to honor Him by also resting/waiting on the Sabbath ( every 7th day)
Jesus lived a sinless life, rose from the dead, and broke through to the 8th day
day 1----------day 2----------day 3----------day 4---------day 5---------day 6---------day 7--------day 8
Sun ------------Mon-----------Tues-----------Wed----------Thurs-----------Fri-----------Sat-----------Sun
10th-------------------------------------------------------------14th--------------------------------------Resurrection
Day 1 = Palm Sunday where the people chose Jesus
Day 1 = 10th day when the people chose the passover lamb
Day 4 = 14th day Killing of the passover lamb (blood) and eating flesh of lamb and eating unleavened (bread)
Day 4 = Jesus institutes new ordinance the Lord's Supper eating wine (blood) and eating (bread) which no longer has to be unleavened for He has Risen.
Jesus is then sacrificed on the next day after replacing the Passover meal with the Lord's supper.
Jesus rests in the grave the entire 7th day (symbolic of sabbath rest).
Jesus Christ breaks the 7 day cycle and rises from the dead on the 8th day.
Those who are in Christ Jesus have the promise of being created anew on the 8th day.
Although we still live in the 7th day, those who are in Christ Jesus have received the promise of the 8th day. Therefore honoring the Sabbath is no longer required for those who are in Christ, because like Christ they too have the promise of the 8th day.
Of course there is.
See Leviticus 12:1-2
Purification After Childbirth
1 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period. 3 On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised.
Then see Genesis 3:15
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush[b] your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
The woman is unclean seven days. Her offspring, the son, will crush the head of the serpent and purification begins on the eighth day.
-----------------------
Then see new testamanet
Paul writes in Romans 2:29:
29 "circumcision is of the heart—by the Spirit, not the letter".
Then refer to John 20:26
26 Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”
Eight days is again significant. On the eighth day the Spirit brought the Son back to life. The very same Spirit that lives in us. Purification begins when we receive the Holy Spirit and our hearts become uncircumcised. We are sealed for the day of redemption when all things are made new. This is the eighth day.
See Leviticus 12:1-2
Purification After Childbirth
1 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period. 3 On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised.
Then see Genesis 3:15
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush[b] your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
The woman is unclean seven days. Her offspring, the son, will crush the head of the serpent and purification begins on the eighth day.
-----------------------
Then see new testamanet
Paul writes in Romans 2:29:
29 "circumcision is of the heart—by the Spirit, not the letter".
Then refer to John 20:26
26 Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”
Eight days is again significant. On the eighth day the Spirit brought the Son back to life. The very same Spirit that lives in us. Purification begins when we receive the Holy Spirit and our hearts become uncircumcised. We are sealed for the day of redemption when all things are made new. This is the eighth day.
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In regards to Isaiah 66:22-23, this merely teaches that from month to month and from week to week, God’s people will worship Him. In the new heaven and the new earth, we read there will have no need of the sun or moon, there will be no night there, but one perpetual day and the glory of God will illuminate it. (Revelation 21:23-25). How then could there be a cycle of seven days that would allow for literally keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law? The Isaiah passage simply means that God’s people will perpetually worship Him in contrast to keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law.
Furthermore, if you insist on sabbath observances based on Isaiah 66:23, then you also need to observe new moons as well. Yet from what I hear, most Sabbatarian’s don’t observe new moons, which is inconsistent. New moons require night, hence Sabbatarians have night in heaven, yet there is no day and night cycles in heaven. You cannot have "new moon to new moon" or "sabbath days" without day and night, so your argument is moot. Will there be Levital priests in the new heaven? If Isaiah 66:23 teaches that we will keep the sabbath day in the new heaven, then it also teaches in Isaiah 66:21 that the Levitical priests will be in the new heaven, because it is also mentioned. What happened to the Levitical priesthood under the new covenant terms? Priesthood changed so did the law. Hebrews 7:12 - For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. *The old and new covenants do not mix.
In regards to Isaiah 56:2, foreigners were to "join themselves to the Lord;" and "love the name of the Lord;" and "be his servants;" and "take hold of God's covenant." The OLD COVENANT. But to do this they had to be circumcised, for God said: “No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary." (Ezekiel 44:9). When Gentiles thus "joined themselves to the Lord" they CEASED BEING GENTILES and became proselytes to the Jewish religion. They kept the Sabbath AS JEWISH PROSELYTES, NOT as Gentiles.
But WHERE ARE GENTILES as Gentiles ever commanded to keep the Sabbath? Furthermore, if the Sabbath was of universal application, why were the Gentiles called "strangers?" The apostle Paul, speaking of the Gentiles during the Jewish age, says they were "strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world?" (Ephesians 2:12).
And when God gave the Sabbath commandment at Sinai, why did he make it binding ONLY on "the stranger that is within your gates?" (Exodus 20:10). Where is the passage that proves the Sabbath was binding on the Gentile OUTSIDE the gates? All this shows the Sabbath was NOT universally applied. If it had been, there would have been no "strangers from the covenants of promise."
*The Word of God makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel:“The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested” (Exodus 31:16-17).
*In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.” (Deuteronomy 5:15)
Furthermore, if you insist on sabbath observances based on Isaiah 66:23, then you also need to observe new moons as well. Yet from what I hear, most Sabbatarian’s don’t observe new moons, which is inconsistent. New moons require night, hence Sabbatarians have night in heaven, yet there is no day and night cycles in heaven. You cannot have "new moon to new moon" or "sabbath days" without day and night, so your argument is moot. Will there be Levital priests in the new heaven? If Isaiah 66:23 teaches that we will keep the sabbath day in the new heaven, then it also teaches in Isaiah 66:21 that the Levitical priests will be in the new heaven, because it is also mentioned. What happened to the Levitical priesthood under the new covenant terms? Priesthood changed so did the law. Hebrews 7:12 - For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. *The old and new covenants do not mix.
In regards to Isaiah 56:2, foreigners were to "join themselves to the Lord;" and "love the name of the Lord;" and "be his servants;" and "take hold of God's covenant." The OLD COVENANT. But to do this they had to be circumcised, for God said: “No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary." (Ezekiel 44:9). When Gentiles thus "joined themselves to the Lord" they CEASED BEING GENTILES and became proselytes to the Jewish religion. They kept the Sabbath AS JEWISH PROSELYTES, NOT as Gentiles.
But WHERE ARE GENTILES as Gentiles ever commanded to keep the Sabbath? Furthermore, if the Sabbath was of universal application, why were the Gentiles called "strangers?" The apostle Paul, speaking of the Gentiles during the Jewish age, says they were "strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world?" (Ephesians 2:12).
And when God gave the Sabbath commandment at Sinai, why did he make it binding ONLY on "the stranger that is within your gates?" (Exodus 20:10). Where is the passage that proves the Sabbath was binding on the Gentile OUTSIDE the gates? All this shows the Sabbath was NOT universally applied. If it had been, there would have been no "strangers from the covenants of promise."
*The Word of God makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel:“The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested” (Exodus 31:16-17).
*In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.” (Deuteronomy 5:15)
Just BECAUSE it says you will HAVE no need of the sun, don't mean that there's not GOING to be one, And there are more than one place that tells us that there will BE, And it dose say FROM ONE SABATH TO another, When GOD SAYS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD SATTLE IT,
And you AND ME proibly HAVE a lot of things that we don't realy NEED,
GOD BLESS as HE sees fit
And you AND ME proibly HAVE a lot of things that we don't realy NEED,
GOD BLESS as HE sees fit
Revelation 21:23 - And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 25 In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed. That settles it for me. Please take to time to further meditate on post #195.
Please take to time to further meditate on post #195. -
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