Im looking for a church that believes what i do
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John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 14
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
1st Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
To deny Jesus is God in the flesh is to deny the very word of God.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 14
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
1st Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
To deny Jesus is God in the flesh is to deny the very word of God.
even if those verse did say "Jesus is Jehovah of the Old Testament (which it never did) " there are still countless verses indicating the impossibility of this , and thus we would have a contradiction, and i would have to go with eh OT if the NT taught different things since the NT is dependent on the OT adn not vice versa . I ask this all the time to other christians "if only one was correct which one would it HAVE to be ? the OT or the NT ?" and obviously everyone says teh OT , so this also means that teh OT takes precedence ove the NT so any tiem a teaching pops up taht seems as though it contraditcs the OT, i put the teaching in the "further investigation" pile to determine if it is either A. contradicting teh Word of God, or B. is misunderstood adn doesnt in fact mean what it sounds like . but there is no option of "C. it contradicts the OT AND its correct"
and as far as teh verse you left . I do believe that the word became flesh . JEsus didnt become flesh, teh word became a man named Jesus . In teh beggining the Word of God became everything that exists . Thats how things were created. He spoke a word adn the word became the thing . In the same way, JEsus was created. Jesus was god's word/promise come to pass . Adam was the same , part creation (earth/mary) and part word (breath/spirit) uncoincidentally breath means spirit in hebrew . This didnt mean that Adam was half spirit , no since everyhitng that exists was made wiht God's word . the other verse about "God was manifest in the flesh" is also true. God is supposed to be manifest in all of us, that is beside the point that the word "theos" was added to that verse hundreds of years after. Phillip wasnt asking to see teh Father visually, but to percieve or know Him . This is easilly shown many ways insluding the fact that Jesus himself said earlier int eh same book that nobody has ever seen the Father . This verse sums up both my points nicely
"No one has ever seen God. God's only Son, the one who is closest to the Father's heart, has made Him known." john 1:18
and as far as teh verse you left . I do believe that the word became flesh . JEsus didnt become flesh, teh word became a man named Jesus . In teh beggining the Word of God became everything that exists . Thats how things were created. He spoke a word adn the word became the thing . In the same way, JEsus was created. Jesus was god's word/promise come to pass . Adam was the same , part creation (earth/mary) and part word (breath/spirit) uncoincidentally breath means spirit in hebrew . This didnt mean that Adam was half spirit , no since everyhitng that exists was made wiht God's word . the other verse about "God was manifest in the flesh" is also true. God is supposed to be manifest in all of us, that is beside the point that the word "theos" was added to that verse hundreds of years after. Phillip wasnt asking to see teh Father visually, but to percieve or know Him . This is easilly shown many ways insluding the fact that Jesus himself said earlier int eh same book that nobody has ever seen the Father . This verse sums up both my points nicely
"No one has ever seen God. God's only Son, the one who is closest to the Father's heart, has made Him known." john 1:18
L
My advice to you would be to find a church that believes what God teaches about Himself through His Word, and not to try to bend scriptural truth to fit with your beliefs. No one church has all of the answers, but many of them are doing their best to follow after biblical truth. That's really what we have to go on--the revelation of God about Himself contained in the Holy Bible.
P.S. On what do you base your beliefs? Just curious . . .
L
Food for thought from John 1:1-18 (NIV):
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
4In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John.
7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe.
8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' "
16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.
17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
Blessings to you as you seek to know and understand truth, my friend.
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
4In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John.
7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe.
8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' "
16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.
17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
Blessings to you as you seek to know and understand truth, my friend.
hello , there are 2 major reasons why i dont believe Jesus was the Most High of the OT , teh 2 being broken into 2 categories.
1. the evidence against it (biblical reasons , logical reasons )
2. lack of evidence for it
1. If you read the old testament first, its impossible to believe that Jesus is God. The only way you can believe that Jesus is God is if you read the NT first and have no knowledge as to who God is . If you are learned in the Bible, you will easily see that God cannot die adn the mere notion is absurd and blasphemous . here are some thngs Jesus did, or things about Jesus that EACH would be enough to show its impoissble that he was God.
1. he was born
2. he learned and he didnt know the day of the end (wasnt all knowing)
3. he has a God (even teh glorifed , ressurected, alpha and omega Jesus in rev has a God)
4. he was tempted
5. he was a real human (he didnt "appear" as a human , he was a real human)
6. he died (although he ressurected, God NEVER dies , not even for a second)
7. jesus was GIVEN auuthority (meaning it wasnt inately his)
8. jesus was a son
9. he prayed (he wasnt pretending , he really prayed )
10. he had as different will than God's although he submitted to God's will (let your will be done and not mine)
11.he was zelous for his Father but not for himself (angry at temple, but ok with them killing him)
these are just a few obvious ones
12. the Father is greater than him
section number 2 consists of LACK of verses saying "jesus is JEhovah of the OT" and also consists of misquoting verses to show he was Jehovah . let me give you some popular examples and defeat them with scripture
1. He allwoed people to worship him and only God can be worshipped.
thats not true . Teh word owrhip simply means to do reverence to someone adn it was done to humans in that culture (adn ohters) all the time , including the Bible . King david was "worshipped" as was solomon . Also see this verse where jesus himself says that teh saved believers will be worhipped by false believers
"I will make those who belong to the synagogue of Satan-those who claim to be Jews and aren't, but are lying-come and bow down at your feet. Then they will realize that I have loved you." teh word for "bow down" is
"proskuneo pros-koo-neh'-o: to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore) -- worship."
its the same word used for when people "worshipped" jesus
2. God in Isaiah said that HE is the only saviour and nobody saves besides Him ,adn Jesus is called a savioir !
This is true. ill give you a parable you can understand adn then give you the Scripture that says shows what im saying.
If i am in a desert dygin of thirst adn i pray to God to give me water, and a man drives up and sees me adn gives me water, can i say A. a man brought me water , or B. God brought me water. the answer is C both . They are both true . It is true that only God saves. God sent Jesus to save poeple .
""I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me." Isaiah
"Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies." Neh 9:27
thsi verse shows that God sent them "saviours" (adn yes, its the same hebrew word used in the isaih verse) . But it isnt a contraction since God sent the saviours (samson, jesus etc) it is He that saves
3. john 1
john 1 doesnt say that Jesus was with God and became a human. Everything was made with the Word . Trees, teh earth etc .God gave teh word and the word became the thing He commanded . God said "let there be light" adn the word became light . The word also spoke of Jesus and the word came to be .Jesus didnt become Jesus, the word became jesus . Jesus is the word of God come to pass . (thats why it mentions teh creation in reguards to the "word" , and all things beign made by it (the word should be "it" adn not "him" ).
4. Jesus is called Lord adn in the OT God is named Lord
God is named Lord in the OT if you have an incorrect Bible . Also, many men are called Lord in the Bible , including but not limited to , david, and abraham . (note, when lord is spelled "Lord", it is totally at teh discretion of the trasnlator . there is no capitolized LORD in the Bible)
5. Jesus forgives sins, adn only God can forgive sins !
Well, according to teh pharisees only God can forgive sins, but according to Jesus
"And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.If you forgive people's sins, they are forgiven. If you retain people's sins, they are retained." John 20:22
Also, note that Jesus makes it clear and points out OVER and OVER again that everythign he says and does is because his Fahter has told him to do so. If God appears to you and tells you to go tell someone that their sins are forgiven , then you may do so
6. Jesus has no human father
neither does Adam . In fact if "not having earthly parents" defined how holy you were, then adam would be holier since he has no earthly mother unlike Jesus. Nobody teaches that Adam is God since he has no earthly parents. The BIble even says that adams Father was God , so this proves that not having a human father and being son of God doesnt make you God or half God. Jesus was made the same way Adam was, adn the BIbel compares Jesus to a new Adam several times .
7.Jesus said that the Father adn him were one
He also prayed that we be one with them
"so that they may all be one. Just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us, so that the world may believe that you sent me." john 17:21
so apparently being one with someone doesnt mean you are them .
8. jesus said whoever has seen me has seen the Father
Ironically when a oneness person gives this verse to a trinitarian to show that Jesus is the Father , you say "oh , its not literal see, but that the learn what God is about" . but then you also try to use this verse so say that Jesus was claiming to be GOd.But if he was, then youd have to admit that Jesus is the Father so you are trapped .But luckily for you , you are right . "show us" means "teach us" . This is proven by the fact that Jesus himself said earlier in teh same book that nobody has ever seen God (visually) . Also this verse says both of my points , that nobody has seen God (adn peopel have seen jesus so hes not God) adn that it meant to "reveal" God to people
"No one has ever seen God. God's only Son, the one who is closest to the Father's heart, has made him known."
9. Jesus is called the alpha and the omega
YEs he is, but in the sam everse he says that he was dead but is alive now . ALso, Alpha an dOmega Jesus STILL has a God
"I will make the one who conquers to become a pillar in the sanctuary of my God, and he will never go out of it again. I will write on him the name of my God, the name of the city of my God (the new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God), and my own new name." Rev 3:12
That was Jesus himself talking . so not only does glorified Jesus stilll have a God , but he will write his God's name on us, adn then he (jesus) will get a new name, indicating that GOd's name is 1.not jesus and 2. Jesus NEW name wont be Gods either
So although "alpha and omega" sound like powerful attributes or thgns to call yourself, they dont mean , you dont have a God .
etc.
i have sripture to back up every claim ive made , so if you are wondering where the BIble teaches a certain claim i made, ask me and ill post it (i didnt type all of them to make this quicker)
1. the evidence against it (biblical reasons , logical reasons )
2. lack of evidence for it
1. If you read the old testament first, its impossible to believe that Jesus is God. The only way you can believe that Jesus is God is if you read the NT first and have no knowledge as to who God is . If you are learned in the Bible, you will easily see that God cannot die adn the mere notion is absurd and blasphemous . here are some thngs Jesus did, or things about Jesus that EACH would be enough to show its impoissble that he was God.
1. he was born
2. he learned and he didnt know the day of the end (wasnt all knowing)
3. he has a God (even teh glorifed , ressurected, alpha and omega Jesus in rev has a God)
4. he was tempted
5. he was a real human (he didnt "appear" as a human , he was a real human)
6. he died (although he ressurected, God NEVER dies , not even for a second)
7. jesus was GIVEN auuthority (meaning it wasnt inately his)
8. jesus was a son
9. he prayed (he wasnt pretending , he really prayed )
10. he had as different will than God's although he submitted to God's will (let your will be done and not mine)
11.he was zelous for his Father but not for himself (angry at temple, but ok with them killing him)
these are just a few obvious ones
12. the Father is greater than him
section number 2 consists of LACK of verses saying "jesus is JEhovah of the OT" and also consists of misquoting verses to show he was Jehovah . let me give you some popular examples and defeat them with scripture
1. He allwoed people to worship him and only God can be worshipped.
thats not true . Teh word owrhip simply means to do reverence to someone adn it was done to humans in that culture (adn ohters) all the time , including the Bible . King david was "worshipped" as was solomon . Also see this verse where jesus himself says that teh saved believers will be worhipped by false believers
"I will make those who belong to the synagogue of Satan-those who claim to be Jews and aren't, but are lying-come and bow down at your feet. Then they will realize that I have loved you." teh word for "bow down" is
"proskuneo pros-koo-neh'-o: to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore) -- worship."
its the same word used for when people "worshipped" jesus
2. God in Isaiah said that HE is the only saviour and nobody saves besides Him ,adn Jesus is called a savioir !
This is true. ill give you a parable you can understand adn then give you the Scripture that says shows what im saying.
If i am in a desert dygin of thirst adn i pray to God to give me water, and a man drives up and sees me adn gives me water, can i say A. a man brought me water , or B. God brought me water. the answer is C both . They are both true . It is true that only God saves. God sent Jesus to save poeple .
""I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me." Isaiah
"Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies." Neh 9:27
thsi verse shows that God sent them "saviours" (adn yes, its the same hebrew word used in the isaih verse) . But it isnt a contraction since God sent the saviours (samson, jesus etc) it is He that saves
3. john 1
john 1 doesnt say that Jesus was with God and became a human. Everything was made with the Word . Trees, teh earth etc .God gave teh word and the word became the thing He commanded . God said "let there be light" adn the word became light . The word also spoke of Jesus and the word came to be .Jesus didnt become Jesus, the word became jesus . Jesus is the word of God come to pass . (thats why it mentions teh creation in reguards to the "word" , and all things beign made by it (the word should be "it" adn not "him" ).
4. Jesus is called Lord adn in the OT God is named Lord
God is named Lord in the OT if you have an incorrect Bible . Also, many men are called Lord in the Bible , including but not limited to , david, and abraham . (note, when lord is spelled "Lord", it is totally at teh discretion of the trasnlator . there is no capitolized LORD in the Bible)
5. Jesus forgives sins, adn only God can forgive sins !
Well, according to teh pharisees only God can forgive sins, but according to Jesus
"And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.If you forgive people's sins, they are forgiven. If you retain people's sins, they are retained." John 20:22
Also, note that Jesus makes it clear and points out OVER and OVER again that everythign he says and does is because his Fahter has told him to do so. If God appears to you and tells you to go tell someone that their sins are forgiven , then you may do so
6. Jesus has no human father
neither does Adam . In fact if "not having earthly parents" defined how holy you were, then adam would be holier since he has no earthly mother unlike Jesus. Nobody teaches that Adam is God since he has no earthly parents. The BIble even says that adams Father was God , so this proves that not having a human father and being son of God doesnt make you God or half God. Jesus was made the same way Adam was, adn the BIbel compares Jesus to a new Adam several times .
7.Jesus said that the Father adn him were one
He also prayed that we be one with them
"so that they may all be one. Just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us, so that the world may believe that you sent me." john 17:21
so apparently being one with someone doesnt mean you are them .
8. jesus said whoever has seen me has seen the Father
Ironically when a oneness person gives this verse to a trinitarian to show that Jesus is the Father , you say "oh , its not literal see, but that the learn what God is about" . but then you also try to use this verse so say that Jesus was claiming to be GOd.But if he was, then youd have to admit that Jesus is the Father so you are trapped .But luckily for you , you are right . "show us" means "teach us" . This is proven by the fact that Jesus himself said earlier in teh same book that nobody has ever seen God (visually) . Also this verse says both of my points , that nobody has seen God (adn peopel have seen jesus so hes not God) adn that it meant to "reveal" God to people
"No one has ever seen God. God's only Son, the one who is closest to the Father's heart, has made him known."
9. Jesus is called the alpha and the omega
YEs he is, but in the sam everse he says that he was dead but is alive now . ALso, Alpha an dOmega Jesus STILL has a God
"I will make the one who conquers to become a pillar in the sanctuary of my God, and he will never go out of it again. I will write on him the name of my God, the name of the city of my God (the new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God), and my own new name." Rev 3:12
That was Jesus himself talking . so not only does glorified Jesus stilll have a God , but he will write his God's name on us, adn then he (jesus) will get a new name, indicating that GOd's name is 1.not jesus and 2. Jesus NEW name wont be Gods either
So although "alpha and omega" sound like powerful attributes or thgns to call yourself, they dont mean , you dont have a God .
etc.
i have sripture to back up every claim ive made , so if you are wondering where the BIble teaches a certain claim i made, ask me and ill post it (i didnt type all of them to make this quicker)
S
Everyone go read St. Athanasius' On The Incarnation and St. Anselm's Cur Deus Homo (Why God Became Man) like...right now. Seriously. The Christology I'm reading here is waaaay weird. Read you Bibles, then read these two works. The Incarnational theology found in both agrees well with scripture and helps explain the "unanswered" questions way better than what I could attempt. 99.9% of Christian thought on the Incarnation also comes directly from Anselm, most people just don't realize it.
Athanasius' work is only about 80 pages long and is a very easy read. You can even read it online for free: here. Athanasius backs up everything he says using the Old and New Testament, and these sources are cited. I suggest skipping C.S. Lewis' introduction unless you just really want a good backstory to the whole thing. It was written in the late 300s.
Anselm's work can likewise be found for free: here. It is presented in a Question & Answer format between himself and a fellow named Boso, and I suggest skipping introductions and going straight to Book I. Anselm approaches the subject from a more reasoned/logical aspect than Athanasius, as that was the custom of theologians in the Middle Ages.
It's really great work.
Athanasius' work is only about 80 pages long and is a very easy read. You can even read it online for free: here. Athanasius backs up everything he says using the Old and New Testament, and these sources are cited. I suggest skipping C.S. Lewis' introduction unless you just really want a good backstory to the whole thing. It was written in the late 300s.
Anselm's work can likewise be found for free: here. It is presented in a Question & Answer format between himself and a fellow named Boso, and I suggest skipping introductions and going straight to Book I. Anselm approaches the subject from a more reasoned/logical aspect than Athanasius, as that was the custom of theologians in the Middle Ages.
It's really great work.
Lynn J,
Do you see where Piano_hero is coming from? He is ready to slice you to pieces if you let him. Is that what you want to accomplish? Are you really qualified to deal with this kind of person or should he be left alone? He gave you an awful lot of reasons and he probably has many more. He is seeing and interpreting everything from human viewpoint (and that is without the Spirit). He does not understand the hypo-static union of the God-man, or how God could become a man and still be God without revealing the attributes of an omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient God. It escapes him how God could become a servant and be made in the likeness of men. He can't grasp the limitations that the Son of God put upon Himself as the Son of man. He rejects the co-mingling of humanity and divinity within a human vessel that is frail and subject to what all earthen vessels are subject to. He can't understand that Jesus Christ as God could be subject to temptations when God can not be tempted. Therefore God could have never become a man, being born of a virgin and condescend to men of low estate being subject to the same things that we are in our humanity, even death. He does not believe that God identified with man by becoming the very flesh of man, because man, who was created by God became a sinner through disobedience to God. It is the same reason the Jews rejected Him as the Messiah. How could God become a man like unto us, of low esteem? Christ became a man, to become sin, to satisfy the Father through propitiation, to pay the ransom for sin with His blood through redemption and to have the sinner restored from which he was fallen through reconciliation. He will run you in circles and effect others in the process, but if you think that you can free him from this snare, so be it.
Do you see where Piano_hero is coming from? He is ready to slice you to pieces if you let him. Is that what you want to accomplish? Are you really qualified to deal with this kind of person or should he be left alone? He gave you an awful lot of reasons and he probably has many more. He is seeing and interpreting everything from human viewpoint (and that is without the Spirit). He does not understand the hypo-static union of the God-man, or how God could become a man and still be God without revealing the attributes of an omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient God. It escapes him how God could become a servant and be made in the likeness of men. He can't grasp the limitations that the Son of God put upon Himself as the Son of man. He rejects the co-mingling of humanity and divinity within a human vessel that is frail and subject to what all earthen vessels are subject to. He can't understand that Jesus Christ as God could be subject to temptations when God can not be tempted. Therefore God could have never become a man, being born of a virgin and condescend to men of low estate being subject to the same things that we are in our humanity, even death. He does not believe that God identified with man by becoming the very flesh of man, because man, who was created by God became a sinner through disobedience to God. It is the same reason the Jews rejected Him as the Messiah. How could God become a man like unto us, of low esteem? Christ became a man, to become sin, to satisfy the Father through propitiation, to pay the ransom for sin with His blood through redemption and to have the sinner restored from which he was fallen through reconciliation. He will run you in circles and effect others in the process, but if you think that you can free him from this snare, so be it.
Yeah............?
I think I'll leave this one alone aswell.
I'll be prayin for ya there piano......Good luck on your search,Keep lookin for the truth and you'll find it
We can agree to disagree on this one.
Personally I have found Jesus in the OT aswell as the NT,Not with contradiction,but with assurance,
Ever hear of the Mossarah?Look for one of those,It'll be helpful to your studies.It's the origional footnotes of the origional translators of the hebrew cannon.Mosarah means to transfer from my mind to yours,therefor leaving no room for mistake in translation,or ideology.
PS>Ive also found spell chech on the text box.(its the ABC box on the right of the text box)
I think I'll leave this one alone aswell.
I'll be prayin for ya there piano......Good luck on your search,Keep lookin for the truth and you'll find it
We can agree to disagree on this one.
Personally I have found Jesus in the OT aswell as the NT,Not with contradiction,but with assurance,
Ever hear of the Mossarah?Look for one of those,It'll be helpful to your studies.It's the origional footnotes of the origional translators of the hebrew cannon.Mosarah means to transfer from my mind to yours,therefor leaving no room for mistake in translation,or ideology.
PS>Ive also found spell chech on the text box.(its the ABC box on the right of the text box)
M
wow...piano guy, you're clearly very aggressive about all this.. but.. doesn't it seem interesting that you are the ONLY one who believes what you are saying? wouldn't that kinda make majority rules... you being a little misguided? don't try backin yourself up with me cuz I don't have time for it.
Find a pastor, a priest, someone who's VERY knowledgable in this subject and who has time to go through this with you, that's the best I can offer. That or start a church believing in whatever you believe and lets have yet ANOTHER "form" of Christianity when it would be nice to have only the ONE!
(I consider myself a born-again Christian who bases my faith simply on my relationship with God - simple, stressless, peaceful, perfect
)
one last thing... that big shpeal you gave up there is interesting and has a lot of depth.. but you're missing the biggest piece of the puzzle, which is why you're story isn't making sense.
Jesus prays to God and loves God AS HIS FATHER, because God IS THE FATHER. Hense Father, Son (Jesus! tada!), and the Holy Spirit who is everywhere, Jesus coming in the form of man not having the ability to travel the whole earth in one lifetime.
God LOVES YOU and everyone else SO FLIPPIN MUCH that he degraded himself to let his son come, be humilitated and helpless as a child, not knowledgable of anything but until God, his Father, taught him everything he needed to know to do the works he was purposed to do. He DIED because that was HIS PURPOSE! You think God is stupid?! He clearly knew everyone wouldn't get it - but then again, how could we?! We're not God! Jesus DIED, PURPOSELY, the WORST DEATH, to take OUR SINS! If Jesus never died, the moment we sin would be the moment that our chance to spend eternity in Heaven is OVER! but thanks to God's SACRIFICE, we can now sin and be washed clean! if Jesus isn't God's ACTUAL SON, just another human being like Catholics (no offense.) are worshiping ("Holy" Mary), then EVERYTHING I ever knew is a total waste of time!! and I may as well stop believing cuz I've done too many wrongs already.
NOT ONLY THAT! Say Jesus IS God's son! How do we actually know this?! If Jesus was God and NEVER died cuz "he's God! God doesn't die!" then AGAIN! everything I beleive is a waste of time. In order for God to complete his purpose through all of this, Jesus HAD to die to pave the way for us to recieve forgiveness from God.
JESUS ROSE FROM THE DEAD!!! God, i havent been this passionate in a long time.. lol but SERIOUSLY! DUDE!! how do you raise from the dead if you never died?!?!? IF HE NEVER ROSE, EVERYTHING WE'RE ARGUING ABOUT IS STUPID AND POINTLESS! BUT THE ONLY REASON WHY IM WRITING THIS DARN THING IS CUZ IT IS REAL! OUR GOD IS REAL! HIS SON IS REAL! WAS DEAD AND NOW IS ALIVE AND WE HAVE A WAY TO RECIEVE GOD'S FORGIVENESS THROUGH ALL THIS CRAP THAT WE CAN'T JUST AGREE ON! I'm not gunna bother lookin up scripture for you cuz this is all just common sense. Good luck not believing the best thing to believe in, buddy.
Find a pastor, a priest, someone who's VERY knowledgable in this subject and who has time to go through this with you, that's the best I can offer. That or start a church believing in whatever you believe and lets have yet ANOTHER "form" of Christianity when it would be nice to have only the ONE!
(I consider myself a born-again Christian who bases my faith simply on my relationship with God - simple, stressless, peaceful, perfect
)one last thing... that big shpeal you gave up there is interesting and has a lot of depth.. but you're missing the biggest piece of the puzzle, which is why you're story isn't making sense.
Jesus prays to God and loves God AS HIS FATHER, because God IS THE FATHER. Hense Father, Son (Jesus! tada!), and the Holy Spirit who is everywhere, Jesus coming in the form of man not having the ability to travel the whole earth in one lifetime.
God LOVES YOU and everyone else SO FLIPPIN MUCH that he degraded himself to let his son come, be humilitated and helpless as a child, not knowledgable of anything but until God, his Father, taught him everything he needed to know to do the works he was purposed to do. He DIED because that was HIS PURPOSE! You think God is stupid?! He clearly knew everyone wouldn't get it - but then again, how could we?! We're not God! Jesus DIED, PURPOSELY, the WORST DEATH, to take OUR SINS! If Jesus never died, the moment we sin would be the moment that our chance to spend eternity in Heaven is OVER! but thanks to God's SACRIFICE, we can now sin and be washed clean! if Jesus isn't God's ACTUAL SON, just another human being like Catholics (no offense.) are worshiping ("Holy" Mary), then EVERYTHING I ever knew is a total waste of time!! and I may as well stop believing cuz I've done too many wrongs already.
NOT ONLY THAT! Say Jesus IS God's son! How do we actually know this?! If Jesus was God and NEVER died cuz "he's God! God doesn't die!" then AGAIN! everything I beleive is a waste of time. In order for God to complete his purpose through all of this, Jesus HAD to die to pave the way for us to recieve forgiveness from God.
JESUS ROSE FROM THE DEAD!!! God, i havent been this passionate in a long time.. lol but SERIOUSLY! DUDE!! how do you raise from the dead if you never died?!?!? IF HE NEVER ROSE, EVERYTHING WE'RE ARGUING ABOUT IS STUPID AND POINTLESS! BUT THE ONLY REASON WHY IM WRITING THIS DARN THING IS CUZ IT IS REAL! OUR GOD IS REAL! HIS SON IS REAL! WAS DEAD AND NOW IS ALIVE AND WE HAVE A WAY TO RECIEVE GOD'S FORGIVENESS THROUGH ALL THIS CRAP THAT WE CAN'T JUST AGREE ON! I'm not gunna bother lookin up scripture for you cuz this is all just common sense. Good luck not believing the best thing to believe in, buddy.
Furthermore, as the Nicene Creed clearly states, Jesus was begotten from the Father, not made. Eternally begotten places Him in equality with the Father. The WORD always was, is and will be.
There is no "going backwards" as some uninformed individuals seem to believe. Oh Brother, misconceptions seem to have no limits.
Amen
There is no "going backwards" as some uninformed individuals seem to believe. Oh Brother, misconceptions seem to have no limits.
Amen
And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Love a friend in God
Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Love a friend in God
A
I admire your willingness to state your beliefs and ask for assistance, but I hope that you don't find a Christian church promoting your beliefs. Jesus is the Son of God and the Son of man. Sometimes we don't believe things because we don't understand them or they dont' seem logical to us. God's ways are not our ways, meaning we often make decisions on our current situations or our feelings or own beliefs. But, if you do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God and died to pay the price for your sins, and rose from the dead so that we can live in peace, have the Holy Spirit dwell in us to guide, direct, then you are not a Christian. I suggest that you go to a Bible-based church and talk to one of the pastors.
Take heart brother, there are thousands of believers all over the world who believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God , and not God....of which I am one.
I have been involved in fellowships in the home for 34 years as they did in the book of Acts.
May I suggest you visit The Way.org
It is a non-denominational biblical research, teaching and fellowship ministry
God bless
I have been involved in fellowships in the home for 34 years as they did in the book of Acts.
May I suggest you visit The Way.org
It is a non-denominational biblical research, teaching and fellowship ministry
God bless
- Status