Im looking for a church that believes what i do

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May 3, 2009
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#41
Not believing Jesus is the Son of God is as old as Arianism, which, is a HERESY.

God Bless
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#42
actually the verse says the opposite. those that deny that Jesus was a real man are the anti christ . If jesus was even 10 percent God, he was not a real man .
so you would disagree with these scriptures ;

Joh 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.Joh 1:2The same was in the beginning with God.


Joh 1:14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1ti 3:16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

But You need to consider this thought, If He was Just man then He could have not died for your and my sins, and the Messiah has not come yet and we all may be in trouble,IF , But it is clear from scriptures That The Christ has come and He was Jesus , borned of a virgin, hung on a cross, and raised by God the Father, Praise the Lord !!!!!!
 
Apr 19, 2009
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#43
so you would disagree with these scriptures ;

Joh 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.Joh 1:2The same was in the beginning with God.


Joh 1:14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1ti 3:16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

But You need to consider this thought, If He was Just man then He could have not died for your and my sins, and the Messiah has not come yet and we all may be in trouble,IF , But it is clear from scriptures That The Christ has come and He was Jesus , borned of a virgin, hung on a cross, and raised by God the Father, Praise the Lord !!!!!!
"if he was just a man he could not die for our sins? where does the Bible say that ? the messiah has not come? teh messiah is a human , not God. The messiah by DEFINITION cant be God . you must not know what messiah means, or that the BIbel has MANY messiahs in it and none of the others were God either . "it is clear that the christ has come" ,the OT never said that teh messiah would be born of a virgin, or that he would b ecrucified adn ressurect .
 
Apr 19, 2009
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#44
A s on is always of the same nature as the father. A son of a human can't be a God, a son of a bird can't be a snake. The Son of God is by necessity, GOD.

God Bless
then Adam is God and thus WE are all God . therein lies your fail
 
Apr 19, 2009
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#45
Lynn J,

Do you see where Piano_hero is coming from? He is ready to slice you to pieces if you let him. Is that what you want to accomplish? Are you really qualified to deal with this kind of person or should he be left alone? He gave you an awful lot of reasons and he probably has many more. He is seeing and interpreting everything from human viewpoint (and that is without the Spirit). He does not understand the hypo-static union of the God-man, or how God could become a man and still be God without revealing the attributes of an omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient God. It escapes him how God could become a servant and be made in the likeness of men. He can't grasp the limitations that the Son of God put upon Himself as the Son of man. He rejects the co-mingling of humanity and divinity within a human vessel that is frail and subject to what all earthen vessels are subject to. He can't understand that Jesus Christ as God could be subject to temptations when God can not be tempted. Therefore God could have never become a man, being born of a virgin and condescend to men of low estate being subject to the same things that we are in our humanity, even death. He does not believe that God identified with man by becoming the very flesh of man, because man, who was created by God became a sinner through disobedience to God. It is the same reason the Jews rejected Him as the Messiah. How could God become a man like unto us, of low esteem? Christ became a man, to become sin, to satisfy the Father through propitiation, to pay the ransom for sin with His blood through redemption and to have the sinner restored from which he was fallen through reconciliation. He will run you in circles and effect others in the process, but if you think that you can free him from this snare, so be it.
when you say "human point of view" you really mean "using logic, everything he says makes sense" and what you mean by "the Spirit" or "revelation' actually means" the bible never says what i believe, its a mystery and a revelation" / But God said He gave His word to humans in a way that a human can understand it without requiring deep wisdom .
 
Apr 19, 2009
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#46
wow...piano guy, you're clearly very aggressive about all this.. but.. doesn't it seem interesting that you are the ONLY one who believes what you are saying? wouldn't that kinda make majority rules... you being a little misguided? don't try backin yourself up with me cuz I don't have time for it.
Find a pastor, a priest, someone who's VERY knowledgable in this subject and who has time to go through this with you, that's the best I can offer. That or start a church believing in whatever you believe and lets have yet ANOTHER "form" of Christianity when it would be nice to have only the ONE!
(I consider myself a born-again Christian who bases my faith simply on my relationship with God - simple, stressless, peaceful, perfect :))

one last thing... that big shpeal you gave up there is interesting and has a lot of depth.. but you're missing the biggest piece of the puzzle, which is why you're story isn't making sense.
Jesus prays to God and loves God AS HIS FATHER, because God IS THE FATHER. Hense Father, Son (Jesus! tada!), and the Holy Spirit who is everywhere, Jesus coming in the form of man not having the ability to travel the whole earth in one lifetime.
God LOVES YOU and everyone else SO FLIPPIN MUCH that he degraded himself to let his son come, be humilitated and helpless as a child, not knowledgable of anything but until God, his Father, taught him everything he needed to know to do the works he was purposed to do. He DIED because that was HIS PURPOSE! You think God is stupid?! He clearly knew everyone wouldn't get it - but then again, how could we?! We're not God! Jesus DIED, PURPOSELY, the WORST DEATH, to take OUR SINS! If Jesus never died, the moment we sin would be the moment that our chance to spend eternity in Heaven is OVER! but thanks to God's SACRIFICE, we can now sin and be washed clean! if Jesus isn't God's ACTUAL SON, just another human being like Catholics (no offense.) are worshiping ("Holy" Mary), then EVERYTHING I ever knew is a total waste of time!! and I may as well stop believing cuz I've done too many wrongs already.
NOT ONLY THAT! Say Jesus IS God's son! How do we actually know this?! If Jesus was God and NEVER died cuz "he's God! God doesn't die!" then AGAIN! everything I beleive is a waste of time. In order for God to complete his purpose through all of this, Jesus HAD to die to pave the way for us to recieve forgiveness from God.
JESUS ROSE FROM THE DEAD!!! God, i havent been this passionate in a long time.. lol but SERIOUSLY! DUDE!! how do you raise from the dead if you never died?!?!? IF HE NEVER ROSE, EVERYTHING WE'RE ARGUING ABOUT IS STUPID AND POINTLESS! BUT THE ONLY REASON WHY IM WRITING THIS DARN THING IS CUZ IT IS REAL! OUR GOD IS REAL! HIS SON IS REAL! WAS DEAD AND NOW IS ALIVE AND WE HAVE A WAY TO RECIEVE GOD'S FORGIVENESS THROUGH ALL THIS CRAP THAT WE CAN'T JUST AGREE ON! I'm not gunna bother lookin up scripture for you cuz this is all just common sense. Good luck not believing the best thing to believe in, buddy.
Jesus says that GOd is our Father aswell, so all of this "he called God Father" talk doesnt prove anything . Teh fact that very few people agree with me actually makes me think even more so that im right because up until i started believing this, this never happened to me, but now it happens non stop
""Blessed are you when men hate you, and ostracize you, and insult you, and scorn your name as evil, for the sake of the Son of Man."

""Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for their fathers used to treat the false prophets in the same way."

JEsus taught that if you teach teh truth you would be hated, ostracized etc, and also said "woe to you when everyone speaks well of you" . Well, before this, everyone got along with me , but now ive been ostracized (peopel were told by a pastor that they werent allwoed to see me) , ive been slandered (a pastor told teh churhc i had a demon) etc . Jesus said that if this isnt happening, you arent doing it right
 
Feb 27, 2007
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#47
Jesus says that GOd is our Father aswell, so all of this "he called God Father" talk doesnt prove anything . Teh fact that very few people agree with me actually makes me think even more so that im right because up until i started believing this, this never happened to me, but now it happens non stop
""Blessed are you when men hate you, and ostracize you, and insult you, and scorn your name as evil, for the sake of the Son of Man."

""Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for their fathers used to treat the false prophets in the same way."

JEsus taught that if you teach teh truth you would be hated, ostracized etc, and also said "woe to you when everyone speaks well of you" . Well, before this, everyone got along with me , but now ive been ostracized (peopel were told by a pastor that they werent allwoed to see me) , ive been slandered (a pastor told teh churhc i had a demon) etc . Jesus said that if this isnt happening, you arent doing it right


Piano, my heart truly goes out to you... you do not speak Christs truth & those rebuking you are Biblically your superiors (in my opinion)... we arent dealing with unbelieving heathens here. Again, as I wrote in another post... Read your Bible, actually listen to what is posted here and seek truth. It takes alot to question your most strong conviction when confronted by another, i would recommend that you do this. Remember where you are. You are speaking to Christians so the persecution that you are feeling so proud about may actually righteous rebuke.
 
Apr 19, 2009
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#48
Piano, my heart truly goes out to you... you do not speak Christs truth & those rebuking you are Biblically your superiors (in my opinion)... we arent dealing with unbelieving heathens here. Again, as I wrote in another post... Read your Bible, actually listen to what is posted here and seek truth. It takes alot to question your most strong conviction when confronted by another, i would recommend that you do this. Remember where you are. You are speaking to Christians so the persecution that you are feeling so proud about may actually righteous rebuke.
actually its not because they lie about me. ive heard things they said about me that werent true and thus its a confirmation that it is that verse taking effect .. Rightoues rebuke ? we are allowed that ? cause i can go all day on chrsitians
 
May 3, 2009
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#49
then Adam is God and thus WE are all God . therein lies your fail
???? Huh? Adam and Eve were always fully human. Initially, they enjoyed a larger dose of grace than do we. Adam/Eve always had one nature: human [ tho initially they were less vulnerable to temptation, concupiscense than we are].

Sorry, Piano, your quote implies a premise which it totally faulty. The only people I know of who ever believed Adam is God are Mormons. And mormons are as confused as you.

I suggest you obtain a copy of the Nicene Creed and repeatedly read it, meditate and pray on it.


Eric
 
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LynnJ

Guest
#50
Not wanting to argue or try to change a mind . . . just wanted to give some food for thought and I was curious on what Piano based his beliefs since he appears to be alone in them.

I'm outta here . . .

Bless you all!
 
L

luke15chick

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#51
Something tells me if you really wanted to find a church that has your same beliefs you would do some searching of different churches' beliefs and find one that seems to agree with you.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#52
Personally if my beliefs didn't match one of the major denominations at least, I'd be having a good long hard look at myself whether I really am in the faith or not. That's what a wise person would do, rather than going off trying to find others who agree with you.
 
Apr 19, 2009
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#53
Personally if my beliefs didn't match one of the major denominations at least, I'd be having a good long hard look at myself whether I really am in the faith or not. That's what a wise person would do, rather than going off trying to find others who agree with you.
i just explained how jesus said the opposite . this is especially true when concerning matters of salvation and spiritual truths. if everyone agree with you, thats the first sign you might be wrong . evne besides the jesus/god thing, there are many false teachings in teh moder popular churches today. ther has to be a remnant. adn these peopel are everywhere, but they hide in other churches. most christians dont love homosexuals, muslims, catholics or the homeless . By love, i mean love, not "we hate teh sin is all" . I mean that you dont treat these people the way you would someoen you ACTUALLY loved like your son or daughter . And if you cant love these, you shall not enter the kingdom .
 
Apr 19, 2009
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#54
Something tells me if you really wanted to find a church that has your same beliefs you would do some searching of different churches' beliefs and find one that seems to agree with you.
well youre wrong, but thats ok cause atleast you didnt claim that "God" told you . I am asking here because i havent found an organization that believes what i do , but i beleive there to be atleast non-denominational congregations where people actualyl study the Bible instead of makin an hour long sermon based on one scripture and then teaching things that actually had nothign to do with the scripture quoted .
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#55
i just explained how jesus said the opposite . this is especially true when concerning matters of salvation and spiritual truths. if everyone agree with you, thats the first sign you might be wrong . evne besides the jesus/god thing, there are many false teachings in teh moder popular churches today. ther has to be a remnant. adn these peopel are everywhere, but they hide in other churches.
Rest assured, if you try to follow Christianity, any form of it, everyone won't agree with you.



most christians dont love homosexuals, muslims, catholics or the homeless . By love, i mean love, not "we hate teh sin is all" . I mean that you dont treat these people the way you would someoen you ACTUALLY loved like your son or daughter . And if you cant love these, you shall not enter the kingdom .
There's different forms of love. The greatest love is to share the gospel. Most churches do that.
 

RoboOp

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 4, 2008
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#56
Ah, you deny the deity of Christ. Now I see why you believe that Jesus may have sinned -- even though the scripture says:

15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.

Anyway your biggest exegetical blunder is with John 1. John, in his own kind of way, is clearly presenting Jesus to us, from the very first sentence. John is so clearly talking about the person of Jesus, that He existed from the beginning, that He was with God, that He was God, that all things were created through Him, and that the world did not know him even though it was created by him, and that he finally came to earth in the form of a man, even if you look in a Greek interlinear. Yah you can play with the pronoun/term "houtos eimi" there that follows and refers to "the Word", but you're not being fair to the text, simply because what is stated there doesn't fit your logic and your doctrine. If you are saying that the translation is wrong then please provide the full "correct" translation for vs. 1 - 14 here, please.

Anyway Jesus didn't walk around with a sign saying "I am God", simply because that was not his purpose at the time (even though He was God). His purpose was to become one of us, relate to us, experience what we experience, and ultimately give himself for us, like it says in Philippians:

6Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

But even while he was here on earth, he dropped enough hints. He knew exactly what he was implying when he said "Before Abraham was, I AM!" (John 8:58). What a profound statement! And you know well (or should know) the full meaning of that, just as the Jews did.

Yes, churches will ban you for promoting heresy, and we have to do the same in the case of anyone promoting real heresy. There are many things we can split hairs on, and there may be some legitimate things that the mainstream church may fall short on, but when you start messing with the deity of Christ, then you're really getting out there -- out there with the cults.

So you'll either have to throw out your logic and accept the dual truths of the Bible regarding who He is, or go start your own cult (with your own Bible translation, at least for John 1). Not sure if you can get any followers though.

RoboOp


3. john 1
john 1 doesnt say that Jesus was with God and became a human. Everything was made with the Word . Trees, teh earth etc .God gave teh word and the word became the thing He commanded . God said "let there be light" adn the word became light . The word also spoke of Jesus and the word came to be .Jesus didnt become Jesus, the word became jesus . Jesus is the word of God come to pass . (thats why it mentions teh creation in reguards to the "word" , and all things beign made by it (the word should be "it" adn not "him" ).
 
Feb 27, 2007
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#57
I'd imagine with Robo's post this thread should be done as it cant be stated better than that. Piano, to answer your quest for a church, I think you are a Jehovahs witness. Go to their Kingdom Hall and I anticipate you'll fit right in as alot of your beliefs are with theirs... this will be good for your term here on earth and will satstfy your fleshly desires to do works and deny Christ... you will never receive the fullness of life given in recieving the gift of the Holy Spirit & I pity you for that cause truly nothing can surpass this gift from God....& eternally...well lets just say its not so good to deny Christ but we'll let God judge your heart. Again I stress to you... pray for discernment before you study your Bible... reject whoever has told you these lies... and consider where twisting of scripture and lies comes from. I'd be seriously concerned if I were you... seriously. You however, will twist this to say we are all mainstream and you are right because you stand alone and blessed are those who are persecuted... just remember the persecuted are persecuted for believing Christ to be God. (not that he just existed and was a good teacher cause why would that cause persecution) There is no persecution for denying Christ to be risen Lord except from Christians so consider where you are receiving your persecution... is it from the earths "majority" athiests & heathens... or.... is it from those covered by the blood of the Lamb? Pray Pray Pray for discernment. I've said a prayer for you as well to soften your heart and open your mind to Gods truth only. Note I say this prayer for myself as well & also pray that I will reject the initial defensiveness that comes with right fighting and truly reflect on Gods word on Gods truth not my preconceived notion of the truth. I pray spiritual blessings for you as you seek the truth.
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#58
"if he was just a man he could not die for our sins? where does the Bible say that ? the messiah has not come? teh messiah is a human , not God. The messiah by DEFINITION cant be God . you must not know what messiah means, or that the BIbel has MANY messiahs in it and none of the others were God either . "it is clear that the christ has come" ,the OT never said that teh messiah would be born of a virgin, or that he would b ecrucified adn ressurect .

what didn't you understand about
1ti 3:16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Who was preached unto to Gentiles except for Jesus which was God manifested in the flesh...
 
C

carpetmanswife

Guest
#59
Suaso! *gasp* lol.. nooo no more churches!!!!
yeah thatd be at least ten more threads the mods would hafta monitor closely if we added one more church lol
 

NoahsDad

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2006
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#60
"if he was just a man he could not die for our sins? where does the Bible say that ? the messiah has not come? teh messiah is a human , not God. The messiah by DEFINITION cant be God . you must not know what messiah means, or that the BIbel has MANY messiahs in it and none of the others were God either]. "it is clear that the christ has come" ,the OT never said that teh messiah would be born of a virgin] or that he would b ecrucified adn ressurect .
. "it is clear that the christ has come" ,the OT never said that teh messiah would be born of a virgin,
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

or that he would b ecrucified and ressurect .
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Psa 22:2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
Psa 22:3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
Psa 22:4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
Psa 22:5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
Psa 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
Psa 22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
Psa 22:8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
Psa 22:9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
Psa 22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
Psa 22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
Psa 22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
Psa 22:13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
Psa 22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
Psa 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
Psa 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
Psa 22:17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
Psa 22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
Psa 22:19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
Psa 22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
Psa 22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
Psa 22:22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
Psa 22:23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
Psa 22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
Psa 22:25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
Psa 22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
Psa 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
Psa 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
Psa 22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
Psa 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
Psa 22:31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.


Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
WOW Jesus actually Quoted the OT!!!!!!!
Isa 8:8 And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.
Now read this one Reaaaaal close...........
Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
Isa 28:19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
Isa 28:20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
Isa 28:21 For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
you must not know what messiah means

mâshîyach
maw-shee'-akh
From H4886; anointed; usually a consecrated person (as a king, priest, or saint); specifically the Messiah: - anointed, Messiah.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 
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