In context: Romans 4:4-5

[SeaBass]

They set the Scriptures against themselves.

When one tries to make "not of works" include all works is setting scripture against itself.

How could Paul EXCLUDE ALL kinds or works from salvation in Eph 2:9 then turn around and INCLUDE good works God preordained Christians to do in verse 10? There's the contradiction created.

 

[Elin]

All the false Christians receive a "notion" os salvation by
trusting in a "perceived" legal transaction they call "Christ's Finished Work" when in reality their hearts remain filthy. In truth they have received a lie in their minds and in their hands and end up serving the image of the beast, which is simply the lusts of the flesh over obedience to God from the heart.

It is painfully obvious that you know nothing of the Holy Spirit in rebirth and salvation by faith only.

This is what the power of God looks like:

what foolishness is that you are saying ...the HS does not bring guilt ....baptism is... the answer of a good conscience toward God....by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
we are promised the HS after we repent and is baptised
Acts 2:38American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

our burden is to learn the truth of God bro....that which you teach is doctrine of man and contrary to the word of God...

Then you do not know the HOLY SPIRIT. When HE came into my heart a SPOT LIGHT was put on my UTTER SINFUL LIFESTYLE. A WAVE OF GUILT washed over me, DROPPING ME TO MY KNEES, where I was plummeted into deep, deep, mourning over my sinfulness. TEARS FLOWED uncontrollably, as I cried out to HIM: "LORD FORGIVE ME! If you have a purpose for my life, then you will have to come into it and run it; because I can't do it! I am making a totally mess of it!" I fell prone on my face as I continued SOBBING uncontrollably for at least another 30-45 minutes. Then I had a dream or vision: I was on my knees looking up at HIM on the Cross, Weeping and BEGGING for HIS FORGIVENESS. I KNEW every sin I ever committed was like another one pound weight added to HIM, pulling down all the more on those nails. I saw BLOOD Fall from where the nails went through HIS hands at the wrists; and the blood splashed on my forearms as I was reaching up towards HIM. The dream or vision was SO VIVID, I could feel the warmth of that blood; and I KNEW I WAS FORGIVEN OF ALL OF MY SINS. OH YES the HOLY SPIRIT came into my Heart that very NIGHT, bringing me to conviction of my sinfulness, confession, and repentence; and most importantly giving me a deep LOVE FOR HIM, my LORD, and an awareness of the great price HE paid to redeem me the SINNER.

I will tell you more of my Testimony, but UNDERSTAND I BELIEVE Submission to Christian Water Baptism, should be the FIRST STEP in our Christian Walk of Obedience after we have received JESUS CHRIST as LORD. I am ashamed to admit that I was not submissive to Water Baptism by immersion for several Years after the NIGHT I WAS SAVED that I just told you about. I wanted to continue to believe my infant Baptism by sprinkling had fulfilled the command to be Baptized. I hesitate ever telling that part of my Testimony, because I NEVER WANT TO ENCOURAGE ANYONE TO PUT IT OFF, like I DID.

DID I SEE GOD the HOLY SPIRIT CHANGING my life those several YEARS, that I put off being BAPTIZED by immersion in Water?

ABSOLUTELY!

HE GAVE ME hunger for HIS WORD, and good sound BIBLE TEACHING, and I wanted more, and more, and more.
SOON, I was listening to 5 or 6 hours of Bible teaching per day via Radio and the Cassette Tapes.

He took away my cigarette smoking by making them taste HORRIBLE, and put the thought in my Head. "What's Your Excuse now dummy?" And I had no more excuses and quit my pack and a half a day habit, cold turkey.

He took away my filthy mouth, just by changing me from the inside OUT, because of the Word of GOD that I was feeding on. One day I hit my thumb with a hammer accidentally, and NO CURSE WORDS CAME OUT, just "Dog Gone it!" I was shocked, and couldn't figure out exactly when that had happened.

My wife was addicted to pain pills and muscle relaxers, and HE TOOK IT AWAY in answer to prayer with NO WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS, and she was taking a LOT OF THEM.

Her Doctor, insisted that she check into a rehab center, and LAUGHED when we told HIM she was HEALED by the LORD, calling me either a fool or a liar. I figured out real quick that HE was not a Christian.

In the non-Christian Rehab, they made fun of her Faith, and about 5 days into it, they called me in for a Group Session, and immediately the two Counselors started making fun of our Faith. GOD THEN SHOUTED IN MY HEAD: "WALK!" I came out of that chair instantly as if it was electrified, and my muscles were responding to HIS VOICE involuntarily. I looked over at my wife and she TOO, was Standing. I asked her, "Are you ready?" She said, "YES." And we headed for the door. John one of the Counselors that was making fun of our Faith, went to the same Lutheran Church that I did. I stopped and said to John, "You and I were raised in the same Church, but I seriously doubt your faith; but I will be praying for you, and I will be praying for the rest of you TOO."; as I pointed my figure pivoting past each one in the group. Out the door we went, after grabbing my wife's things from her room. When we got to my jeep, I had a flat tire, when all I wanted was to get away from that place in a hurry. As I was changing the tire, I asked my wife. "Did you hear anything in that room?" She answered, "Just one Word - WALK!" I said, "THAT'S IT, WE ARE OUT OF HERE!"

Did GOD ever Answer my prayers for John? ABSOLUTELY! A few weeks later we ran into him buying Christian Counseling books at the Christian Book Store. He had quit his job at the non-Christian Rehab Center, and was going to open a Christian Rehab Center.

We saw many, many other prayers answered, as we continued to grow spiritually.

A dear friend, got caught up in a cult that was teaching that Jesus was a sinner. So we went to talk to her, and prayed very seriously in the parking lot first, that GOD would send angels, even Michael if necessary to drive out the evil demons from her apartment, and HE ANSWERED THAT PRAYER BIG TIME! She could not find a single one of her verses to prove that Jesus was a sinner, and was baffled as to why she could not find them. We knew that the demons were not there to lead her to those misinterpretations. Were we able to lead her out of that CULT? Sadly no, and the last time my wife talked to her, she said it was like Terry had died spiritually.

He motivated my wife and I to seek out BIBLE TEACHING CHURCH, and we found a very good one.

He continually was molding me and my wife, giving us multiple opportunities to witness.

Then one day He started putting it on my heart to move WEST, and I did not know why. We went on vacation to California, and I put in for a transfer out there, from Nebraska. I was told they would not have any openings for 5 years, but six months later I got a phone call, telling me that someone quit, and the job was mine if I wanted it. I still KNEW GOD wanted me there, and told him that I would be there in two weeks. WE HAD NO MONEY IN SAVINGS AT ALL. Still we trusted that the LORD would provide. I listed my 2 year old car for sale in the paper and on the radio and put a big sign FOR SALE in the window and parked on the street where people passing by would see it. Two days before we HAD TO LEAVE FOR CALIFORNIA, not one person had even asked about the car. That night, my neighbor was banging on my door after midnight, and reported that some kid was spinning kitties (circles) in the loose gravel out front of our apartment, and lost control. He hit my car and totaled it, and took off; though they did find him later. I got more money out of insurance than I was asking for the car on the radio and in the newspaper. We leased a new car, drove to California, paid our first and last months rent, and all utility deposits and had $90.00 left over for food until my first check came in. THE LORD PROVIDED.

A few weeks later, I was convicted of NOT BEING SUBMISSIVE TO WATER BAPTISM BY IMMERSION via one of the tapes from my Bible Teaching Church in Nebraska. The very next Sunday Evening, I was baptized, in cold tap water, because the water heater was broke down.

So WHY did GOD want this Nebraska farm boy in California? I got involved in Prison Ministry, and became a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain at Pelican Bay State Prison for 9 years, followed by 6 more years at High Desert State Prison. Did I know how to start a Prison Ministry? NO, but I KNEW HE DID!

Salvation in Skinski7ism by man's assistance in saving himself is an absolute corruption
of the Biblical power of God.

You need prayer, Skinski7, and I will make it for you.

 

[SeaBass]

Salvation in Skinski7ism by man's assistance in saving himself is an absolute corruption
of the Biblical power of God.

You need prayer, Skinski7, and I will make it for you.

"Save yourselves from this untoward generation." Acts 2:40; "in doing this thou shalt both save thyself" 1 Tim 4:16; "work out your own salvation" Phil 2:12; "Seeing ye have purified your souls" 1 Pet 1:22; "let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit" 2 Cor 7:1; "Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts" James 4:8

Man having a role in his own salvation is 100% biblical.

 

[Elin]

Man having a role in his own salvation is 100% biblical.

"Save yourselves from this untoward generation." Acts 2:40; "work out your own salvation" Phil 2:12; "Seeing ye have purified your souls" 1 Pet 1:22; "let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit" 2 Cor 7:1; "Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts" James 4:8

Previously addressed.

"in doing this thou shalt both save thyself and others" 1 Tim 4:16

Your standard false methodology again:

taking Scriptures out of context and setting them against themselves,
thereby proving that you do not understand them correctly,
for the Scriptures do not contradict themselves.

Now go back and review the context of Paul instructing Timothy on caring for the church in Ephesus,
on what Paul instructs him as the overseer to do in refuting false teaching, supervising the affairs of the church,
and the spiritual results of sound doctrine.

 

[Atwood]

Man having a role in his own salvation is 100% biblical.

The only thing a man can do is to trust in the Lord Jesus, the Savior.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.
Whosoever believes in Him.
The word whosoever implies that everyone who believes is saved, regardless of whatever else may be true or not true.

Now you have advocated that water-baptism is essential. But do you conveniently hide behind the transliteration "baptize"? Do you mean water-immersion is essential. Thus for you if a man trusts Christ as His Savior (believes in the Son of God), but never gets immersed (only sprinkled) he goes to the Lake of Fire?

 

[newbirth]

The only thing a man can do is to trust in the Lord Jesus, the Savior.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.
Whosoever believes in Him.
The word whosoever implies that everyone who believes is saved, regardless of whatever else may be true or not true.

Now you have advocated that water-baptism is essential. But do you conveniently hide behind the transliteration "baptize"? Do you mean water-immersion is essential. Thus for you if a man trusts Christ as His Savior (believes in the Son of God), but never gets immersed (only sprinkled) he goes to the Lake of Fire?

what you are saying is impossible...If one says he believes in the Son of God and never gets baptised (immersed) he does not believe in Christ...its that simple.....
Mark 16:16American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.




and sure as day Atwood does not believe ........He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved...because Atwood believes ........he who believes and is not baptised shall be saved

 

[Radius]

conclusion...faith without works is still dead....

You relly need to read this commentary on James regarding faith without works is dead. You are getting confused and you need to be enlightened.
Does Jams Teach Salvation by Faith Plus Works - James 2:24

an except from th above website:

"James 2:

• 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
  18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
  19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
  20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
  21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
  22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
  23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
  24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James 2:14 begins a new paragraph and addresses the matter of those who say they have faith but their faith does not produce any fruit (works) in their lives. (V14) This shows the context or subject of the paragraph. Therefore the subject of this passage is bring attention to those who claim to be Christians, but do not live for the Lord. Their lives then produce no fruit which means God is not working in their lives. James says in verse 14, "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?" (James 2:14) Note that he defines the type of faith he is addressing by the statement "though a man "say" he hath faith." In other words this passage is addressed to the one who claims or says they have saving faith. James is showing that this is a feigned faith because it produces nothing in this person's life. I can say I am an airplane pilot, but one would rightly question my claim if I never flew airplanes. I might even get into the cockpit of a plane and play with the controls, but if I did not fly the plane my claim of being a pilot would certainly be suspect. So, James' last phrase "can faith save him" means can a pretended faith that has no effect on a person save them. The answer is obvious, no. Note what God says about the person who has true saving faith. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Corinthians 5:17) James further clarifies the subject by his statement in verse 18, "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." He is certainly not saying that works saves, but salvation produces visible works. This is the key to interpreting the passage.
To interpret the passage is simple. James is saying that if a person says they have true saving faith, their faith will produce works in their life. You will be able to see their faith in action. The justification spoken of here is not salvation, but justifying one calling himself a Christian and claiming to have saving faith when he is not living for the Lord. In other words a man who says he is saved and does not show any outward evidence of salvation then his salvation is in doubt because it produces no works or result in the man's life. The person who has saving faith and works is publicly justified in claiming to be have faith and be saved. His works show his faith. The one who has no works, whether he is saved or not, is not justified in outwardly saying he has saving faith, because his lack of works does not justify his claim"

 

[newbirth]

It is painfully obvious that you know nothing of the Holy Spirit in rebirth and salvation by faith only.

This is what the power of God looks like:




Salvation in Skinski7ism by man's assistance in saving himself is an absolute corruption
of the Biblical power of God.

You need prayer, Skinski7, and I will make it for you.

is your salvation is without Grace?......faith without works is dead...

 

[newbirth]

You relly need to read this commentary on James regarding faith without works is dead. You are getting confused and you need to be enlightened.
Does Jams Teach Salvation by Faith Plus Works - James 2:24

an except from th above website:

"James 2:

• 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
  18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
  19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
  20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
  21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
  22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
  23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
  24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James 2:14 begins a new paragraph and addresses the matter of those who say they have faith but their faith does not produce any fruit (works) in their lives. (V14) This shows the context or subject of the paragraph. Therefore the subject of this passage is bring attention to those who claim to be Christians, but do not live for the Lord. Their lives then produce no fruit which means God is not working in their lives. James says in verse 14, "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?" (James 2:14) Note that he defines the type of faith he is addressing by the statement "though a man "say" he hath faith." In other words this passage is addressed to the one who claims or says they have saving faith. James is showing that this is a feigned faith because it produces nothing in this person's life. I can say I am an airplane pilot, but one would rightly question my claim if I never flew airplanes. I might even get into the cockpit of a plane and play with the controls, but if I did not fly the plane my claim of being a pilot would certainly be suspect. So, James' last phrase "can faith save him" means can a pretended faith that has no effect on a person save them. The answer is obvious, no. Note what God says about the person who has true saving faith. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Corinthians 5:17) James further clarifies the subject by his statement in verse 18, "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." He is certainly not saying that works saves, but salvation produces visible works. This is the key to interpreting the passage.
To interpret the passage is simple. James is saying that if a person says they have true saving faith, their faith will produce works in their life. You will be able to see their faith in action. The justification spoken of here is not salvation, but justifying one calling himself a Christian and claiming to have saving faith when he is not living for the Lord. In other words a man who says he is saved and does not show any outward evidence of salvation then his salvation is in doubt because it produces no works or result in the man's life. The person who has saving faith and works is publicly justified in claiming to be have faith and be saved. His works show his faith. The one who has no works, whether he is saved or not, is not justified in outwardly saying he has saving faith, because his lack of works does not justify his claim"

this person comment is their personal view....not God's view ....God's view is the scripture ....the scripture says faith ....not saving faith ...it is by grace we are saved ...through faith.... obedience of faith and work of faith..... not faith produces works

 

[Atwood]

this person comment is their personal view....not God's view ....God's view is the scripture ....the scripture says faith ....not saving faith ...it is by grace we are saved ...through faith....

Well NewB, does that mean you will stop posting YOUR comments here as they are your personal view & not God's? Isn't it remarkable how some who decry reading commentaries because they are personal human views, at the same time want to inflict their personal human comments on others?

How do you know that the commentary posted was not that of a man who had the spiritual gift of teaching, to which one should give heed?

 

[Atwood]

baptized . . . believeth. . . baptized . . . baptised shall be saved

NewB, what do you mean by baptized??? Do you mean immersed? If so , do you condemn all those who believe in the Lord Jesus and were only sprinkled?

It is not impossible to believe and not be immersed. It happens all the time.
Do you think that everyone who believes is immersed on the same day?
Is the person damned during the delay?

The Philippian jailer was told
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.

Now during the time gap between his belief and his dunking was he damned?

You have to make God a false advertiser, as so many times salvation is offered just for believing/having faith.

 

[Radius]

this person comment is their personal view....not God's view ....God's view is the scripture ....the scripture says faith ....not saving faith ...it is by grace we are saved ...through faith.... obedience of faith and work of faith..... not faith produces works

And your view is YOUR view. Do you speak for God and the Bible? or are you not a mere man like this Biblical scholar I presented to you who has laid out the complete framework of what James was saying in Chapter 2. It seems you have your mind fixed upon yourself and your actions and not as much on God and His saving Grace through FAITH ALONE.

 

[homwardbound]

Just letting it all go and trusting God to sort it all our, bye


Romans 14:4New International Version (NIV)[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who are you to judge someone else’s servant?[SUP](A)[/SUP] To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

Matthew 7:1New International Version (NIV)
[h=3]Judging Others[SUP](A)[/SUP][/h]7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.[SUP]([/SUP][SUP]B[/SUP][SUP])


[/SUP]Luke 6:41New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP]“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Luke 6:42New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]42 [/SUP]How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Luke 6:37New International Version (NIV)
[h=3]Judging Others[SUP](A)[/SUP][/h][SUP]37 [/SUP]“Do not judge, and you will not be judged.[SUP](B)[/SUP] Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.[SUP](C)[/SUP]
Romans 14:10New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[SUP][a][/SUP]? Or why do you treat them with contempt?[SUP](A)[/SUP] For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.[SUP](B)[/SUP]

This is nothing more than flesh persecuting flesh, and I am sue Father is not pleased, am out of here when the lightening strikes, is going to strike hard

 

[SeaBass]

Previously addressed.

"Save yourselves from this untoward generation." Acts 2:40; "in doing this thou shalt both save thyself and others" 1 Tim 4:16; "work out your own salvation" Phil 2:12; "Seeing ye have purified your souls" 1 Pet 1:22; "let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit" 2 Cor 7:1; "Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts" James 4:8

You have NOT address these bible verses. they still stand, still proving man has a role in his own salvation.

Your standard false methodology again:

taking Scriptures out of context and setting them against themselves,
thereby proving that you do not understand them correctly,
for the Scriptures do not contradict themselves.

Now go back and review the context of Paul instructing Timothy on caring for the church in Ephesus,
on what Paul instructs him as the overseer to do in refuting false teaching, supervising the affairs of the church,
and the spiritual results of sound doctrine.

1 Tim 4:16 "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."

"save thyself" means just that, Timothy had a role in his own salvation. How?

(1) Take heed unto thyself: - "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" 2 Cor 13:5. Timothy's role in his own salvation required that he take heed, or examine himself to determine whether he was still remaining in the faith or had drifted away from it.

(2) "and unto the doctrine";- It was Timothy's role in his own salvation to take responsibility to make sure he was preaching and staying within Christ's doctrine, the truth of the gospel. Timothy could know if he was preaching the truth of not and had a responsibility to preach the truth else he be leading others astray.

(3) "continue in them"- Timothy was given the responsibility to stay within the doctrine. "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" 2 Pet 1:10 Timothy's role in his own salvation was in giving diligence to make his election and calling, else he would fall.

 

[SeaBass]

The only thing a man can do is to trust in the Lord Jesus, the Savior.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.
Whosoever believes in Him.
The word whosoever implies that everyone who believes is saved, regardless of whatever else may be true or not true.

Now you have advocated that water-baptism is essential. But do you conveniently hide behind the transliteration "baptize"? Do you mean water-immersion is essential. Thus for you if a man trusts Christ as His Savior (believes in the Son of God), but never gets immersed (only sprinkled) he goes to the Lake of Fire?

Man can also and must repent, Lk 13;3,5; confess, Mt 10:32,33 and be baptized, Mk 16:16 to be saved.

Cherry picking through verses that deal with salvation and not considering "all the counsel of God" will save no man.

 

[SeaBass]

what you are saying is impossible...If one says he believes in the Son of God and never gets baptised (immersed) he does not believe in Christ...its that simple.....
Mark 16:16American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.




and sure as day Atwood does not believe ........He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved...because Atwood believes ........he who believes and is not baptised shall be saved

Acts 2:41 those that rejected baptism are the ones that rejected the gospel word. So one has not received the gospel message until he has been baptized, i.e., one is rejecting the gospel message as he keeps rejecting baptism.

 

[Elin]

Previously addressed.

"Save yourselves from this untoward generation." Acts 2:40;"in doing this thou shalt both save thyself and others" 1 Tim 4:16; "work out your own salvation" Phil 2:12; "Seeing ye have purified your souls" 1 Pet 1:22; "let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit" 2 Cor 7:1; "Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts" James 4:8

You have NOT address these bible verses. they still stand, still proving man has a role in his own salvation.

Review the record. . .they are there.

 

[SeaBass]

Review the record. . .they are there.

The verses prove one has a role in his own salvation. What I am waiting on is your refutation....none so far.

 

[Elin]

1 Tim 4:16 "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."

Your standard false methodology again:

taking Scriptures out of context and setting them against themselves,
ipso facto proving that you do not understand them correctly,
for the Scriptures do not contradict themselves.

Now go back and review the context of Paul instructing Timothy on caring for the church in Ephesus,
on what Paul instructs him as the overseer to do in refuting false teaching, supervising the affairs of the church,
and the spiritual results of sound doctrine.

As long as you set the Scriptures against themselves, as you set 1Tim 4:16 against Eph 2:8-9,
you cannot understand them correctly.

 

[Elin]

Review the record. . .they are there.

The verses prove one has a role in his own salvation.
What I am waiting on is your refutation....none so far.

Review the record. . .they are there.