In context: Romans 4:4-5

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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Race or nationality does not matter, Acts 2:41,44 shows one, anyone, who has not been baptized has not gladly received the gospel.
Let the reader compare what SB says vs the scripture:

" 41 They then that received his word were baptized [water not mentioned]: and there were added unto them in that day about three thousand souls. 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, in the breaking of bread and the prayers. 43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles . 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 and they sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all, according as any man had need."

Your claim is not supported by the text.
BTW, SB, have you sold your goods like they did and shared them?


What do you mean by baptized?
Where does the text say that he who has not been immersed has not received the gospel?
Kindly do not make up things.
Where does Acts 2:41,44 mention water immersion?

Is it your theory that millions of Presbyterians who have trusted Christ as Savior and do trust Him as Savior, all go to the Lake of Fire?

What will the Lord say to them if they claim at the judgment?:
"Your word says, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you SHALL BE SAVED? And I believed on Him."
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
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So you get to cherry pick one command out of many that is to be obeyed.
The only command that brings salvation is
Believe on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved.

The issue is not the commands, but what must I do to be saved.
No one "keeps the commands."
You don't.
One is not to commit idolatry. And thus one must not make water an idol, a savior.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
So you are admitting one can save themselves.
You misquote scripture; no one can save himself. "Save himself" is a mistranslation for a passive verb, BE SAVED. Also, it is not be saved from Hell, but from this crooked generation. It doesn't even say, "Be saved from Hell to go to Heaven."

Σώθητε ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς τῆς σκολιᾶς ταύτης.


Σώθητε = BE SAVED (PASSIVE)
ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς = from the generation
τῆς σκολιᾶς = the crooked
ταύτης = this.

Christ is the SAvior. The believer is the saved (passive), the savee.

You can no more save yourself than you can lift yourself by your own bootstraps.


 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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FOCUS ON THE MAIN & FREQUENT TRUTH OF GOD

Salvation is by grace through faith, plus nothing on man's part:

Instant Salvation in Past Tense

“Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” (Luke 7:50)
[No water mentioned!]

It is clear the whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life and does not come into condemnation. This salvation must be instantaneous in that it is a new birth, a recreation and only depends upon trusting the SAvior (not the chance-giver). One either is a saint or an ain't. The moment a non-believer becomes a believer, he must be saved, for scripture guarantees salvation to the believer. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. It is clear that the Philippian jailer was at once saved, for he believed.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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THE CONTEXT IS SALVATION/JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH ALONE

One cannot ignore that the whole Bible is the context, and many, many times salvation is said to be achieved on man's part merely through faith/believing//trusting in the Savior. God's part is called grace.

Cornelius was instantly saved when he trusted the Lord Jesus, and no water baptism was needed nor joining any Eastern or Western organization. (see Acts 10:43-48). Compare this to what Peter said in Acts 15:11: We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are. (Acts 15:11)

Consider Eph 2: "[God] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. . . . by grace you have been saved through faith."

NO WATER!

[the Lord God] who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, - 2 Tim 1:9

[NO WATER]

Instant Salvation Is Realized in Present Time instantly before any water dunking.

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes [present tense] him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."

The passing from death to life happens at belief. NO WATER.

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:12,13)

Every believer has eternal life. NO WATER REQUIRED

he who believes has everlasting life. (John 6:47)

NO WATER

Over and over salvation is attained without any water.

Whosoever believes excludes any necessary water.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Let the reader compare what SB says vs the scripture:

"41 They then that received his word were baptized [water not mentioned]: and there were added unto them in that day about three thousand souls. 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, in the breaking of bread and the prayers. 43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles . 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 and they sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all, according as any man had need."

Your claim is not supported by the text.
BTW, SB, have you sold your goods like they did and shared them?


What do you mean by baptized?
Where does the text say that he who has not been immersed has not received the gospel?
Kindly do not make up things.
Where does Acts 2:41,44 mention water immersion?

Is it your theory that millions of Presbyterians who have trusted Christ as Savior and do trust Him as Savior, all go to the Lake of Fire?

What will the Lord say to them if they claim at the judgment?:
"Your word says, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you SHALL BE SAVED? And I believed on Him."

The baptism of Acts 2:38,41 is the disciple/human administered WATER baptism of the great commission, Mt 29:19,20; Mk 16:15,16; Lk 24:47. This human administered water baptism was commanded and one can obey the command to submit to water baptism.

Verse 41 "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized...."

Who then were the ones NOT baptized? Were the ones NOT baptized the ones that received the gospel word? No, v41 says otherwise. So the ones NOT baptized must have been the ones that rejected Peter's gospel words. Peter's words included the command to repent and be baptized. So how can it be said that the ones who refused to repent and be baptized were actually accepting Peter's words?
 
Mar 12, 2014
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The only command that brings salvation is
Believe on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved.

The issue is not the commands, but what must I do to be saved.
No one "keeps the commands."
You don't.
One is not to commit idolatry. And thus one must not make water an idol, a savior.
What about the command to repent and be baptized for remission of sins(salvation), Acts 2:38?

Your continued cherry-picking proves nothing.

Your continued quoting of Acts 16:31 also proves nothing also:

1) the command was to "believe" not "believe only".
2) reading the whole context one will see that the jailer did not "believe only" but in fact was repentant and baptized.

So the jailer is an example of one baptized. If you keep quoting Acts 16 about the jailer, then tell the WHOLE truth on what happened not just cherry pick one point and then ADD "only" to it.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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You misquote scripture; no one can save himself. "Save himself" is a mistranslation for a passive verb, BE SAVED. Also, it is not be saved from Hell, but from this crooked generation. It doesn't even say, "Be saved from Hell to go to Heaven."

Σώθητε ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς τῆς σκολιᾶς ταύτης.


Σώθητε = BE SAVED (PASSIVE)
ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς = from the generation
τῆς σκολιᾶς = the crooked
ταύτης = this.

Christ is the SAvior. The believer is the saved (passive), the savee.

You can no more save yourself than you can lift yourself by your own bootstraps.



The context shows Peter just convicted his listeners (Jews) of crucifying the Messiah:

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

They were eternally lost for their rejection of the Messiah. Peter told them to repent and be baptized for remission of sins.
So Peter said "save yourselves" he was addressing their lost state and by obeying what Peter said they would "save yourselves", ie., have their sins remitted.

So "save yourselves" had to do with having sins remitted and they would be saved from the eternally lost state of that crooked and perverse generation who refused to repent and be baptized. It was this lost perverse and crooked generation THAT REJECTED THE GOSPEL as seen by their refusal to repent and be baptized.

Not baptized = rejecting the gospel.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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FOCUS ON THE MAIN & FREQUENT TRUTH OF GOD

Salvation is by grace through faith, plus nothing on man's part:

Instant Salvation in Past Tense

“Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” (Luke 7:50)
[No water mentioned!]

It is clear the whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life and does not come into condemnation. This salvation must be instantaneous in that it is a new birth, a recreation and only depends upon trusting the SAvior (not the chance-giver). One either is a saint or an ain't. The moment a non-believer becomes a believer, he must be saved, for scripture guarantees salvation to the believer. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. It is clear that the Philippian jailer was at once saved, for he believed.

Man has been commanded to believe/have faith so man's part is the work of faith/believing, 1 Thess 1:3, Jn 6:27-29..
Lk 7:50 is not an example of NT salvation but occurred under the OT law.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Re: THE CONTEXT IS SALVATION/JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH ALONE

One cannot ignore that the whole Bible is the context, and many, many times salvation is said to be achieved on man's part merely through faith/believing//trusting in the Savior. God's part is called grace.

Cornelius was instantly saved when he trusted the Lord Jesus, and no water baptism was needed nor joining any Eastern or Western organization. (see Acts 10:43-48). Compare this to what Peter said in Acts 15:11: We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are. (Acts 15:11)

Consider Eph 2: "[God] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. . . . by grace you have been saved through faith."

NO WATER!

[the Lord God] who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, - 2 Tim 1:9

[NO WATER]

Instant Salvation Is Realized in Present Time instantly before any water dunking.

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes [present tense] him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."

The passing from death to life happens at belief. NO WATER.

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:12,13)

Every believer has eternal life. NO WATER REQUIRED

he who believes has everlasting life. (John 6:47)

NO WATER

Over and over salvation is attained without any water.

Whosoever believes excludes any necessary water.

1) Cornelius was water baptized, Acts 10:47.48 and his submitting to water baptism was how he was saved - water baptism was how he worked righteousness and accepted with God, Acts 10:35.

2) nowhere did Jesus' NT gospel teach salvation is by belief only.

Jesus says:
belief saves, Jn 8:24
repentance saved/not perish, Lk 13:3,5
confession saves, Mt 10:32,33
baptism saves Mk 16;16.

Therefore a gospel belief INCLUDES repentance confession and baptism.

On one hand for Jesus to teach "belief only" saves but then teach repentance, confession and baptism saves would be a contradiction your theology causes for Jesus.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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FOCUS ON THE MAIN & FREQUENT TRUTH OF GOD

Salvation is by grace through faith, plus nothing on man's part:

Instant Salvation in Past Tense

“Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” (Luke 7:50)
[No water mentioned!]

It is clear the whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life and does not come into condemnation. This salvation must be instantaneous in that it is a new birth, a recreation and only depends upon trusting the SAvior (not the chance-giver). One either is a saint or an ain't. The moment a non-believer becomes a believer, he must be saved, for scripture guarantees salvation to the believer. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. It is clear that the Philippian jailer was at once saved, for he believed.
your explanation does not change anything....we are still saved by grace through faith...and shall be does not mean instant
and the jailer in acts 16...asked the question ....you conclude what you want to believe...look carefully...vs 32 what is the word of the Lord they were told that made them get baptised immediately...???
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Re: THE CONTEXT IS SALVATION/JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH ALONE

1) Cornelius was water baptized, Acts 10:47.48 and his submitting to water baptism was how he was saved - water baptism was how he worked righteousness and accepted with God, Acts 10:35.
The text never says that Corny was saved by water immersion.
This is what it says:

16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit. 17 If then God gave unto them the like gift as he did also unto us, when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I, that I could withstand God?

9
and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why make ye trial of God, that ye should put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in like manner as they.


[Faith, NO WATER]



2) nowhere did Jesus' NT gospel teach salvation is by belief only.[SIC]
You cannot claim anything that Christ said because you already ruled it out as before the cross. You ruled out "This day you shall be in paradise with Me" to the thief on the cross on the grounds that they way of salvation changed after that in the Church Age or after the cross. Until you recant of that error, you contradict yourself.

Jesus says:
belief saves, Jn 8:24
repentance saved/not perish, Lk 13:3,5
confession saves, Mt 10:32,33
No where does anything but belief save anyone in those verses.
Repent is change of mind from non-belief to belief.
Mt 10:32f does not say "salvation" anywhere.

baptism saves Mk 16;16.
Mk 16 nowhere says "baptism saves." The word baptism doesn't even occur in the verse. Also, there is no mention of water in Mark 16:16.

You have to ignore all the passages where belief alone saves with nothing added. And your use of so and therefore is not cogent. And you are not allowed to tack other things onto believe when that is all that occurs in a verse. You certainly err by adding any human work as works are forbidden pride:

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

[NO WATER]

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

[NO WATER]

[NO WATER]

John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

[NO WATER]

[NO WATER]

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life;

[NO WATER]

[NO WATER]

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

[NO WATER]

John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
[NO WATER]

JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.
[NO WATER]

Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
[NO WATER]

John 3:14-18
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. He that believes on him is not judged: he that believes not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.
[NO WATER]

John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
[NO WATER]

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life.
[NO WATER]

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep.
 
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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
your explanation does not change anything....we are still saved by grace through faith...and shall be does not mean instant
No, the text in Acts 16 does say instant immersion in water, but
SALVATION IS INSTANT:

Instant Salvation in Past Tense

“Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” (Luke 7:50)

th Zacchaeus.
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.” (Luke 19:9)

Evidence of Zacc's instant salvation is found in his instant statement:

But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.” (Luke 19:8)

Cornelius was instantly saved when he trusted the Lord Jesus, and no water baptism was needed nor joining any Eastern or Western organization. (see Acts 10:43-48). Compare this to what Peter said in Acts 15:11: We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are. (Acts 15:11)

Consider Eph 2:5 [God] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Is there any hint of an extended process between dead & alive? Salvation is a change from death to life, with no intermediate zombie state. 2 Cor 5: Old things are passed away, behold all has become new. It is all or nothing here.

In addressing Tim on common salvation, prophet Paul remarks to Tim how the Christian's salvation is past. There is no future to transpire before Paul and Tim should call themselves saved.

[the Lord God] who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, - 2 Tim 1:9

Again, prophet Paul wrote in Titus the truth that we presently regard ourselves as saved in the past.

he [God] saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)


The future continued salvation state after belief is guaranteed by the past justification by the blood of the Lord Jesus.

Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! (Rom 5:9) Now how is anyone going to be half-way justified? You either are or you are not. The transition must be instante.

Instant Salvation Is Realized in Present Time

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes [present tense] him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:12,13)

There is a clear dichotomy: You either have or have not the Son of God with eternal life. The change must be instantaneous. Eternal life is a present possession for the believer, not just a future reward.

Salvation is clearly presented as a present reality:
Men are divided clearly into two groups, believers and non-believers, the saved & the perishing.

he who believes has everlasting life. (John 6:47)

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1 Cor 1:18)

For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. (2 Cor 2:15)

It is clear the whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life and does not come into condemnation. This salvation must be instantaneous in that it is a new birth, a recreation and only depends upon trusting the SAvior (not the chance-giver). One either is a saint or an ain't. The moment a non-believer becomes a believer, he must be saved, for scripture guarantees salvation to the believer. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. It is clear that the Philippian jailer was at once saved, for he believed.

In Acts 16 the contingency is simply believe, salvation then is sure to follow: SHALL BE SAVED. We know by correlation that the moment a man believes, he passes from death to life, also that there is a salvation process which unfolds in his life, and that ultimate perfection awaits the resurrection.

I suggest that you stop theorizing, and take to your knees; ask the Lord Jesus to save you and trust Him to do it, denying any water idol.
 
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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Man has been commanded to believe/have faith so man's part is the work of faith/believing, 1 Thess 1:3, Jn 6:27-29..
Lk 7:50 is not an example of NT salvation but occurred under the OT law.
If that is your theory, then why don't you recant all your statements about what Jesus taught on salvation, & also you claims about John 3.

There is no salvation under the OT Law, for all it did was condemn men. That salvation has never changed is proven by finding that justification/salvation is the same OT, gospels, & Church Age. Abe is the great OT example of Faith saving applied to men in this age as an example.

Faith/believing is contrasted with works:
Salvation is resting from one's works & trusting in a Savior.
NO WATER REQUIRED.

Come unto Me all you who labor & are heavy-laden . . . & I will give you rest.

To-day if ye shall hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation,
Like as in the day of the trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tried me by proving me,
And saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was displeased with this generation,
And said, They do always err in their heart:
But they did not know my ways;
11 As I sware in my wrath,
They shall not enter into my rest.
12 Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, . . .
. . .
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.

[NO WATER]


4:1 Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. 3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest;

[NO WATER]


even as he hath said,
As I sware in my wrath,
They shall not enter into my rest:
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works; 5 and in this place again,
They shall not enter into my rest.
. . .
To-day if ye shall hear his voice,
Harden not your hearts.
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his. 11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, . . .

16 Let us therefore draw near with boldness unto the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and may find grace to help us in time of need.


[NO WATER]



 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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Is it not remarkable how the same person can argue from the Teachings of Jesus on salvation, bringing in John 3 and verses that speak of confessing (without mentioning "salvation") from the Teachings of Jesus, but then when he doesn't like some passage in the Teachings of Jesus, he pulls out the Dispensational Salvation Error that there is a new way to be saved after the cross or after the Church begins in Acts.

You can't have it both ways.


Now as a matter of fact, "dispensational salvation" is an error; salvation is always by grace through faith in the Bible, though there be a hypothetical justification if you could keep the commandments of God perfectly.

Here it is, salvation by faith on man's part, with
[NO WATER]

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, ["everyone rules out WATER]


But the righteous shall live by faith.

[NO WATER]

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

[NO WATER]

Rom 4:1ff

:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

[NO WATER]

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

[NO WATER]


Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.


[NO WATER]

Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.

[NO WATER]

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes.
[Everyone rules out water]
For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

[NO WATER]
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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SB starts out the below with his typical "so," when what he posted does not imply the claim (the phony so)


So Peter said "save yourselves"
[Sic, No, he did not!]
[he was addressing their lost state and by obeying what Peter said they would "save yourselves"
[sic],
ie., have their sins remitted.

So "save yourselves"


Save yourselves does not occur in the text. This is a mistranslation of a passive verb. The action is not something the hearers are to do to themselves, but which will be done TO THEM by someone else (the Lord Jesus).

You misquote scripture; no one can save himself. "Save yourselves" is a mistranslation for a passive verb, BE SAVED. Also, it is not be saved from Hell, but from this crooked generation. It doesn't even say, "Be saved from Hell to go to Heaven."

Σώθητε ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς τῆς σκολιᾶς ταύτης.


Σώθητε = BE SAVED (PASSIVE)
ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς = from the generation
τῆς σκολιᾶς = the crooked
ταύτης = this.

Christ is the SAvior. The believer is the saved (passive), the savee.

You can no more save yourself than you can lift yourself by your own bootstraps.

 
Last edited:
Mar 28, 2014
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SB starts out the below with his typical "so," when what he posted does not imply the claim (the phony so)



Save yourselves does not occur in the text. This is a mistranslation of a passive verb. The action is not something the hearers are to do to themselves, but which will be done TO THEM by someone else (the Lord Jesus).

You misquote scripture; no one can save himself. "Save yourselves" is a mistranslation for a passive verb, BE SAVED. Also, it is not be saved from Hell, but from this crooked generation. It doesn't even say, "Be saved from Hell to go to Heaven."

Σώθητε ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς τῆς σκολιᾶς ταύτης.


Σώθητε = BE SAVED (PASSIVE)
ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς = from the generation
τῆς σκολιᾶς = the crooked
ταύτης = this.

Christ is the SAvior. The believer is the saved (passive), the savee.

You can no more save yourself than you can lift yourself by your own bootstraps.

anyway you put it there is an action to be performed by the saved...just as Jesus speak to the body and said be healed the body obeys and begins to be heal....in the same way he says... be saved.... you must obey and begin to be saved....
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,142
13,149
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anyway you put it there is an action to be performed by the saved...just as Jesus speak to the body and said be healed the body obeys and begins to be heal....in the same way he says... be saved.... you must obey and begin to be saved....
Luke 8:12 - Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Which acts of obedience/works are you trying to "shoe horn" between believe and be saved here?
 
Oct 5, 2014
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What you fail to understand through all the scripture that you twist to teach your works for salvation is the simple truth that the faith of JESUS has nothing to do with works by a man or woman seeking eternal security.....
Then you believe it is a faith without works one is saved through?

James 2:26---King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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Luke 8:12 - Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Which acts of obedience/works are you trying to "shoe horn" between believe and be saved here?
there you have it they only hear they do nothing the words take no root...

[SUP]15 [/SUP]But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
these are the ones who believe and are saved....does it have to be written that way for you to understand?
you quote the word but you don't know the word....