In context: Romans 4:4-5

[Elin]

I do not see how this can be such a big controversy! Abraham actually acted in a certain way, Abraham did that based on his faith. If he would have acted as he did for any other reason, it would have meant nothing. It is the faith God saw, and if Abraham's faith would have been so small it would not have resulted in the actions it wouldn't have been real faith.

So what came first the chicken or the egg? Why argue about it.

This is not RedTent.

Where is RedTent? Is she okay?

 

[SeaBass]

Your standard false methodology again:

taking Scriptures out of context and setting them against themselves,
ipso facto proving that you do not understand them correctly,
for the Scriptures do not contradict themselves.

Now go back and review the context of Paul instructing Timothy on caring for the church in Ephesus,
on what Paul instructs him as the overseer to do in refuting false teaching, supervising the affairs of the church,
and the spiritual results of sound doctrine.

As long as you set the Scriptures against themselves, as you set 1Tim 4:16 against Eph 2:8-9,
you cannot understand them correctly.

Save yourself means save yourself and does not contradict all other scripture that commands men to obey to be saved Heb 5:9. Therefore when those in Acts 2 obeyed the command in v38 to repent and be baptized they were in that sense saving themselves.

 

[Elin]

Your standard false methodology again:

taking Scriptures out of context and setting them against themselves,
ipso facto proving that you do not understand them correctly,
for the Scriptures do not contradict themselves.

Now go back and review the context of Paul instructing Timothy on caring for the church in Ephesus,
on what Paul instructs him as the overseer to do in refuting false teaching, supervising the affairs of the church,
and the spiritual results of sound doctrine.

As long as you set the Scriptures against themselves, as you set 1Tim 4:16 against Eph 2:8-9, you cannot understand them correctly.

Save yourself means save yourself (1Tim 4:16) and does not contradict all other scripture that commands men to obey to be saved Heb 5:9. Therefore when those in Acts 2 obeyed the command in v38 to repent and be baptized they were in that sense saving themselves.

As long as you set the Scriptures against themselves, as you set 1Tim 4:16 against Eph 2:8-9,
you cannot understand them correctly.

 

[SeaBass]

As long as you set the Scriptures against themselves, as you set 1Tim 4:16 against Eph 2:8-9,
you cannot understand them correctly.

Non-responsive.


After Peter commanded his hearers in Acts 2:38 to repent and be baptized, what did Peter mean by telling them to"save yourselves", v 40?

 

[Elin]

Non-responsive.


After Peter commanded his hearers in Acts 2:38 to repent and be baptized, what did Peter mean by telling them to"save yourselves", v 40?

Setting Ac 2:38 against Eph 2:8-9.

Setting the Scriptures against themselves is ipso facto proof you do not understand them correctly.

I can save myself from wicked people but setting myself apart from them.

 

[newbirth]

Setting Ac 2:38 against Eph 2:8-9.

Setting the Scriptures against themselves is ipso facto proof you do not understand them correctly.

I can save myself from wicked people but setting myself apart from them.

one message is to those who needed to be saved(acts 2 :38)... the other is to those who were already saved (Eph 2:8-9.)

 

[Elin]

one message is to those who needed to be saved(acts 2 :38)... the other is to those who were already saved (Eph 2:8-9.)

Agreed. . . .

 

[Atwood]

one message is to those who needed to be saved(acts 2 :38)... the other is to those who were already saved (Eph 2:8-9.)

Ephesians 2 declares to those who were already saved how they were saved in the past when they needed to be saved.

Eph 2:8-9 is just one of many many passages which make man's only part in effecting salvation believing (faith).

Acts 2:38 is a rare verse where spirit baptism makes very good sense. As it is the odd verse, it must be understood as agreeing with the multitude of verses which say nothing about baptism.

Sirs what MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?

Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.

Repent of any water idolatry. Water is not the Savior, the Lord Jesus is the SAvior.

 

[Atwood]

Non-responsive.


After Peter commanded his hearers in Acts 2:38 to repent and be baptized, what did Peter mean by telling them to"save yourselves", v 40?

To save yourself, as it were, you need to repent of making water your idol; Water is no Savior, the Lord Jesus is the only & sufficient Savior.

Moreover, whatever the people did after hearing Acts 2:38, you deny that they were saved at all -- you seem to think they were just given a chance.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

Save yourself means save yourself and does not contradict all other scripture that commands men to obey to be saved Heb 5:9. Therefore when those in Acts 2 obeyed the command in v38 to repent and be baptized they were in that sense saving themselves.

The only obedience that saves is obeying this command;
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.

It is not a matter of contradicting all other scripture, but realizing that with the incredible multitude of verses which offer salvation merely for believing/having faith, the odd verses must be understood in that light.

Repent of making water an idol, SeaBass.

And come out of the closet:
Are you saying that all the sprinkled Presbyterians who trust Christ as Savior, will roast in the Lake of Fire?

 

[Alligator]

The only thing a man can do is to trust in the Lord Jesus, the Savior.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.
Whosoever believes in Him.
The word whosoever implies that everyone who believes is saved, regardless of whatever else may be true or not true.

Now you have advocated that water-baptism is essential. But do you conveniently hide behind the transliteration "baptize"? Do you mean water-immersion is essential. Thus for you if a man trusts Christ as His Savior (believes in the Son of God), but never gets immersed (only sprinkled) he goes to the Lake of Fire?

For the ten thousandth time, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "believer who never gets baptized." Are you ever going to grasp this?

 

[AbP]

For the ten thousandth time, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "believer who never gets baptized." Are you ever going to grasp this?

Something comes to mind about a believing thief on a cross and someone saying "today you will be with me in paradise" to him....can't say I recall anything about him being baptised or anything.....hmmmmm

 

[Alligator]

Something comes to mind about a believing thief on a cross and someone saying "today you will be with me in paradise" to him....can't say I recall anything about him being baptised or anything.....hmmmmm

Well, of course not. We don't know if he was baptized or not, but my guess is he wasn't . The thief lived under the old law, not the new law, the gospel of Christ. Christs Great Commission for all to,be baptized was not commanded until after His death. See Heb. HEB. 9:16-17.

 

[royalscot]

Acts 2:41 those that rejected baptism are the ones that rejected the gospel word. So one has not received the gospel message until he has been baptized, i.e., one is rejecting the gospel message as he keeps rejecting baptism.

sorry, but at pentecost they were all jewish.
4 John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
oral repentance, and water etc
teachers of law etc take animal to temple. for forgivness, etc

the big split, at the start of jesus and john (b) ministry. etc

now they, are getting the message from the beginning.

 

[royalscot]

strange how time and dates, can make a full story.

around 48 ad
28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me."Acts 10



did the word repent get used. (act 10) so what law or/and , how can you repent from a law you, were never given.
if this is the law that the holy spirit write in your heart. then acts 15 would have keep all the law of moses in place.(tyed to a temple of stone) not any more after 70 ad
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles
44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,47 "Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?"48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.Acts 10

continue to act 15, what law was given to a gentile.

 

[newbirth]

sorry, but at pentecost they were all jewish.
4 John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
oral repentance, and water etc
teachers of law etc take animal to temple. for forgivness, etc

the big split, at the start of jesus and john (b) ministry. etc

now they, are getting the message from the beginning.

The message was taught at the beginning of John's ministry preparing the way for Christ...there is a message to learn ...John teaches us how to prepare for Christ...Christ teaches the same message...the apostles teaches the same message...repent and be baptised unto the remission of sins...it is the same message to the Jews and the gentile ....
the new covenant came into effect at pentecost
[SUP]

15 [/SUP]As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

 

[SeaBass]

Setting Ac 2:38 against Eph 2:8-9.

Setting the Scriptures against themselves is ipso facto proof you do not understand them correctly.

I can save myself from wicked people but setting myself apart from them.

Acts 2:38 does not contradict Eph 2:9 so that should tell you "works" of Eph 2:9 do not refer to works in obedience to God's will. God commanded the works of repentance and submitting to baptism you claim that's all wrong simply because it does not fit your theology. If one can blatantly disregard God's commands of Acts 2:38 one might as well throw his bible away and blatantly disregard all God has to say.

BY trying to get Eph 2:9 to exclude obedience you are trying to find a way to get around palin bible teachings and get the disobedient, unrighteous, worker of evil saved for no other reason than to protect the man-made teaching of faith only.

 

[SeaBass]

To save yourself, as it were, you need to repent of making water your idol; Water is no Savior, the Lord Jesus is the only & sufficient Savior.

Moreover, whatever the people did after hearing Acts 2:38, you deny that they were saved at all -- you seem to think they were just given a chance.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

So you are admitting one can save themselves.

 

[SeaBass]

The only obedience that saves is obeying this command;
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.

So you get to cherry pick one command out of many that is to be obeyed.

 

[SeaBass]

sorry, but at pentecost they were all jewish.
4 John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
oral repentance, and water etc
teachers of law etc take animal to temple. for forgivness, etc

the big split, at the start of jesus and john (b) ministry. etc

now they, are getting the message from the beginning.

Race or nationality does not matter, Acts 2:41,44 shows one, anyone, who has not been baptized has not gladly received the gospel.