In your opinion do you believe world is about 6000 years old

[Inquisitor]

I agree: this is not a salvific issue.

I believe that humankind was created on the 6th day, but that for a brief period, the woman was fully "in" the man's body until God withdrew and formed her. That completely avoids compressing all those actions into one day.

I don't know that it was ever God's plan for Adam and Eve to live "forever" in the garden. Instead, I believe that He fully anticipated the fall both of Lucifer and of Adam, and had in mind the redemption in Christ before the Earth was formed. Indeed, Scripture says "He was chosen before the foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:20).

If Adam and Eve had not sinned then they cannot die!

Unless the death that scripture is talking about is a spiritual death.

Adam and Eve were flesh and blood which means they could never inherit the
kingdom of God.

 

[Inquisitor]

Re "It may very well be true... your version of the creation timeline.... that is what I was taught all my life, as well. If it is truly how it happened, I have no problem with it. God chose to not give us all the "details" of what went on during creation. I'm ok with that, and my faith will not be shaken, either way. EITHER timeline has no bearing on my salvation, or yours...."

That was why I interjected my two cents by asking "what truth is necessary to learn and what information is not, although it might be interesting or helpful?"

My answer is the necessary truth is that God created the world and humanity with God-consciousness and conscience or ability to cooperate with His will--or not. One may find the details y'all are quibbling about interesting or not, but it doesn't ultimately matter, because they are of secondary importance--as hornetguy and I trust everyone realizes.

The scripture has a subject and that subject was Jesus Christ.

Boast in Christ.

 

[Dino246]

I would not be using the term 'pseudo science'.

Science is based on observation, measurement, repeatable experiments, etc.

That is the scientific methodology and it cannot be false.

Science is constantly self correcting.

There are many ways of observing the age of the earth.

Creation science is pseudo science because Creation science is not based on direct observation
nor measurements. Creation science is solely based on a genealogy given in the Old Testament.

Science is not at war with Christianity and never was.

A sect within Christianity that employs a specific interpretation of the Old Testament is at war with science.

There is a lot wrong with scientific viewpoints and especially with scientific speculation.

Personally, I put no faith in mankind in general.

I used the term "pseudo-science" intentionally. Good, sound science is indeed based on observation, measurement, and repeatable experiments. Pseudo-science is based on observations but is mixed with large doses of preconceived conclusions unwarranted by the evidence.

There are two branches of science: experimental and forensic. The latter is based on the former. Creation science is a combination of the two, as is any branch of science that attempts to explain origins or history before measurements.

The view of young-Earth creation is not a "sect"; there is little to no formal organization but rather general adherence to the plain text of plain Scripture.

Science is not at war with Christianity, but certain influential scientists have been.

 

[Moses_Young]

Well, mostly to try to find an answer to the OP's question... IS the earth only 6000 years old? If scholars count the years back to the creation of Adam, and only come up with 6000 years, how are the other discoveries on the earth explained? What if Adam and Eve were in the garden for thousands of years before they fell to temptation?


Except we don't know that as a certainty... see the above....

I'm not fully following your point. We know from the bible Adam and Eve were in the garden for 930 years or less (presumably much, much less), as Adam died when he was 930 years old, and they had been kicked out before Cain or Abel had been born.

Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

 

[GWH]

The scripture has a subject and that subject was Jesus Christ.

Boast in Christ.

Re “a” subject: The overarching or only necessary subject is JC, but Jesus and Paul taught that there are two main types of biblical teaching—those regarding Gods requirement for salvation and those regarding how the saved/saints should live.

 

[Omegatime]

I'm not fully following your point. We know from the bible Adam and Eve were in the garden for 930 years or less (presumably much, much less), as Adam died when he was 930 years old, and they had been kicked out before Cain or Abel had been born.

Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would recommend reading this writing of Irenaeus who was taught by Polycarp, a disciple of Apostle John.

CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.23 (St. Irenaeus)

 

[hornetguy]

I'm not fully following your point.

My point was made several posts back.... The Bible does not tell us when God started counting Adam's years. Since apparently, God's plan was for Adam and Eve to live in the garden forever, why would Adam's years be counted?
My thoughts are that possibly, Adam and Eve could have lived in the garden for who knows how many years before Satan entered and tempted Eve... perhaps thousands of years. We just don't know. IF, again IF, Adam's years weren't counted until they were banished from the garden, then any amount of time could have passed that are not accounted for.

Just thoughts and musings....

 

[Cameron143]

My point was made several posts back.... The Bible does not tell us when God started counting Adam's years. Since apparently, God's plan was for Adam and Eve to live in the garden forever, why would Adam's years be counted?
My thoughts are that possibly, Adam and Eve could have lived in the garden for who knows how many years before Satan entered and tempted Eve... perhaps thousands of years. We just don't know. IF, again IF, Adam's years weren't counted until they were banished from the garden, then any amount of time could have passed that are not accounted for.

Just thoughts and musings....

Why would you think man was only ever going to live in a garden? He was given a mandate to fill the earth. Also, he was given dominion over the whole earth. In addition, the Bible begins in a garden, but ends in a city. God was going to share revelation concerning creation and how it could be used to advance humanity whether sin came or not. God is creative. His glory in creation is magnified by the creativeness of man.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

My point was made several posts back.... The Bible does not tell us when God started counting Adam's years. Since apparently, God's plan was for Adam and Eve to live in the garden forever, why would Adam's years be counted?
My thoughts are that possibly, Adam and Eve could have lived in the garden for who knows how many years before Satan entered and tempted Eve... perhaps thousands of years. We just don't know. IF, again IF, Adam's years weren't counted until they were banished from the garden, then any amount of time could have passed that are not accounted for.

Just thoughts and musings....

It's just that Adam and Eve didn't have children before they got kicked out. God created Adam and Eve on the sixth day. When He finished making them, He told them to go forth and increase:

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

.....

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

God gave them that command to increase in number from the very start. But they got kicked out of the garden before they even went through the process of procreating (Cain was conceived after the Fall, Genesis 4:1). So it appears that they didn't stay in paradise for very long.


🦽

 

[GWH]

Why would you think man was only ever going to live in a garden? He was given a mandate to fill the earth. Also, he was given dominion over the whole earth. In addition, the Bible begins in a garden, but ends in a city. God was going to share revelation concerning creation and how it could be used to advance humanity whether sin came or not. God is creative. His glory in creation is magnified by the creativeness of man.

From a garden to a city? I guess the command to fill the earth was obeyed. I just hope the city has parks the size of Colorado!

 

[Cameron143]

From a garden to a city? I guess the command to fill the earth was obeyed. I just hope the city has parks the size of Colorado!

It's being fulfilled. The knowledge of the glory of the Lord will fill the earth and the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ.

 

[hornetguy]

Why would you think man was only ever going to live in a garden?

15 Then the Lord God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it.
16 The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not [n]eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

Does that sound to you like God intended for Adam to only be in the garden for one day?

19 Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the [p]sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the [q]sky, and to every beast of the field,

All of this in less than a day?

 

[Cameron143]

15 Then the Lord God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it.
16 The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not [n]eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

Does that sound to you like God intended for Adam to only be in the garden for one day?

19 Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the [p]sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the [q]sky, and to every beast of the field,

All of this in less than a day?

I didn't say God was rushing Adam out of the garden; only that God's plan always included moving beyond the garden...to the entire earth.

 

[hornetguy]

God created Adam and Eve on the sixth day.

Except scripture does not specify that God created Adam and Eve on the 6th day.... this account of the 6th day does not match the creation of Adam, and his placement in the garden... God created man, Adam.... then later created Eve out of Adam's rib. If they sinned and fell, all on the 6th day, would God have said that the creation of man and woman was "very good" ?

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the [ak]sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the [al]sky and over every living thing that [am]moves on the earth.” 29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the [an]surface of all the earth, and every tree [ao]which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the [ap]sky and to every thing that [aq]moves on the earth [ar]which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so. 31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

And yet, just before Eve came about, this was said, "18The LORD God also said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make for him a suitable helper.”

So where chpt 1 says, "IT WAS VERY GOOD" it INCLUDES "Eve" because before she came about, He'd said, "it is NOT GOOD for the man to be alone. I WILL MAKE for him..."




Make sense?




This "[it is] NOT GOOD" came prior to the "and behold, IT WAS VERY GOOD"










[Ex20:11 - "For IN SIX DAYS the LORD made..." and then it says, "and rested on the SEVENTH DAY" ]

 

[hornetguy]

And yet, just before Eve came about, this was said, "18The LORD God also said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make for him a suitable helper.”

So where chpt 1 says, "IT WAS VERY GOOD" it INCLUDES "Eve" because before she came about, He'd said, "it is NOT GOOD for the man to be alone. I WILL MAKE for him..."




Make sense?




This "[it is] NOT GOOD" came prior to the "and behold, IT WAS VERY GOOD"










[Ex20:11 - "For IN SIX DAYS the LORD made..." and then it says, "and rested on the SEVENTH DAY" ]

And you are still missing the point... IF Adam and Eve sinned on the 6th day, then why would God survey all He had made, and call it good at the end of the 6th day?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

And you are still missing the point... IF Adam and Eve sinned on the 6th day, then why would God survey all He had made, and call it good at the end of the 6th day?

I might be "missing the point" (I haven't followed every post on this thread )... as I thought (at one point, anyway) that you had been endeavoring to refute (in the bold below) the idea in this verse (v.5) which someone had posted:

Gen 5:1
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Gen 5:2
Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Gen 5:3
[...]
Gen 5:4
[...]
Gen 5:5
And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.




Am I mistaken that you were addressing this verse ^ someone had posted? (I admit I could be mistaken, as to your point there )

 

[cv5]

My point was made several posts back.... The Bible does not tell us when God started counting Adam's years. Since apparently, God's plan was for Adam and Eve to live in the garden forever, why would Adam's years be counted?
My thoughts are that possibly, Adam and Eve could have lived in the garden for who knows how many years before Satan entered and tempted Eve... perhaps thousands of years. We just don't know. IF, again IF, Adam's years weren't counted until they were banished from the garden, then any amount of time could have passed that are not accounted for.

Just thoughts and musings....

One theory has it:
1000-930 = 70.

Adam was in the garden 70 years before he "fell to his death".
BTW.......Adam in effect committed suicide. He killed himself.
He was otherwise effectively immortal. Unkillable.

The "deep sleep" that begat the Woman may be a euphemism for death.
Then God resurrected him afterwards.

Not proposing doctrine just food for thought.....

 

[SaysWhat]

It's just that Adam and Eve didn't have children before they got kicked out. God created Adam and Eve on the sixth day. When He finished making them, He told them to go forth and increase:

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

.....

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

God gave them that command to increase in number from the very start. But they got kicked out of the garden before they even went through the process of procreating (Cain was conceived after the Fall, Genesis 4:1). So it appears that they didn't stay in paradise for very long.


🦽

Wonder were Cain and Abel went to see God and bring offerings.

Seth was after the fall, God helped Eve with the delivery of her first two sons. Afterwards childbirth pain greatly increased because of what they had done. Adam had a son from his own likeness.

Chapters, 124356

 

[hornetguy]

I might be "missing the point" (I haven't followed every post on this thread )... as I thought (at one point, anyway) that you had been endeavoring to refute (in the bold below) the idea in this verse (v.5) which someone had posted:

Gen 5:1
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Gen 5:2
Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Gen 5:3
[...]
Gen 5:4
[...]
Gen 5:5
And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.




Am I mistaken that you were addressing this verse ^ someone had posted? (I admit I could be mistaken, as to your point there )

No, I had not seen that post. I had not read Gen 5 recently.... it seems to blow my musings out of the water. I have no problem with that.... just shows I need to do a more in depth study of Genesis.... thanks for pointing that out.

My whole "musings" on this was a result of my curiosity of how to reconcile the "old earth" and the "young earth" dispute. I just read Gen 1 through 3, and noticed what seemed to be a gap in the creation of Adam vs "mankind"....

Gen 5 is pretty plain about when Adam was created... more study is required.