Interesting question: According to scripture alone, what is "the Lord's day" (Revelation 1:10)?

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 17, 2020

I'm not sure why you are insisting on this. I mean, I have skimmed the thread, but do not see a convincing argument about what you are putting forward here and in the OP.

Let me just be clear, my view is not that "the Lord's day" (Rev1:10) is "Sunday" (nor that it is the "7th day of the week [Sabbath]"--your viewpoint).

I've posted in the past, that both the passage in Acts 20:7 and John 20:19 are speaking of "the first of the WEEKS [PLURAL]"... which is a very specific time of the year

... so it is not accurate to say that the point in time being referenced is "the first day of unleavened bread" (no matter which day of the week that happened to fall, in any give year), but rather, "the first OF THE WEEKS" (the "WEEKS" [7 of] which count up to Shavuot / Pentecost, and these START [counting] ON Firstfruit [the day of Jesus' Resurrection], which FF is ALWAYS on a SUNDAY [same for "Shavuot / Pentecost" (despite this flaw at Hebcal and other Hebrew calendars)], i.e. "on the morrow after the sabbath..." v.10... and v.15 (Lev23) "and ye shall count unto you FROM the morrow after the sabbath, FROM the day that ye brought... SEVEN SABBATHS ['weeks'] shall be complete: Even unto the morrow AFTER THE SEVENTH SABBATH shall ye number fifty days..."

... since there are not "seven HIGH sabbaths," this factor does not impact this at all (which I think was a point in one of your early posts in this thread, page 1 or 2, maybe??)

So this is "when" the passage on Acts 20:7 refers to:

"In the first of the WEEKS [PLURAL], when the disciples having come together [G4863 - synēgmenōn ] to break bread..."

https://biblehub.com/text/acts/20-7.htm

(and "when" the John 20:19 scene took place as well... a very specific time of year)

[p.s. I'm pretty short on time, of late, so may not be able to contribute much more in this thread... just wanted to pop in on that particular point... and will come back as [or if] I am able)

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 17, 2020

^ EDIT to clarify: yes, this is a particular day (in these settings) but the "time stamp" (wording) is such that it does not refer to just "any random" day throughout the entire yearly calendar (like say, some week in November they decided to meet for this)...

it refers specifically to "the first of the WEEKS [PLURAL]," which is a very specific time of year

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 17, 2020

WithinReason said:

I disagree (pretty much)... as I believe (as I've said numerous times), that Rev1:1 [/22:6] (when you boil it down and also "compare" the phrasings) is saying that the "things WHICH MUST COME TO PASS [<--see 4:1 and 1:19c] in quickness [NOUN]" are the things which take place WITHIN the 7-yr trib, which is the "DARK / DARKNESS / IN THE NIGHT" aspect of the entire LONG "day of the Lord" TIME PERIOD (which also goes on to INCLUDE the 1000-yr reign [the "SUN of righteousness ARISE" and "reign... GLORIOUSLY" aspects]); so that, the 7-trib-yrs is the START of [the long-duration TIME PERIOD known as ] "the Day of the Lord"

The "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" wording indicates that the "FUTURE" aspects of the Book [i.e. 4:1 thru chpt 19] are referring to a relatively short AMOUNT of time, NOT that which would unfold over the course of some [nearly-] 2000 years, NOR that which would unfold immediately [or "soon"] from the point in time when written (IOW, the "FUTURE" aspects, btwn 4:1 and chpt 19, cover the future 7-yr trib, which is A PART OF "the Day of the Lord" time period).

[In my past posts, I've shown how the "SEALS" are parallel to "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" and that Paul refers to the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" which is the ARRIVAL point in time of "the Day of the Lord," per 1Th5:2-3... etc]

Ahwatukee · Mar 17, 2020

lightbearer said:

So, have you ever worked on the Sabbath? If so, then you and others who consider the Sabbath as a requirement for salvation are guilty of breaking it. However, it wasn't written to you, but to Israel and those within their gates. As Paul said regarding the food law, the legal feasts, the Sabbaths and holy days:

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

All of the above belong to the law. Paul said, "do not let anyone judge you," i.e. for not observing the food law, religious festivals, holy days, Sabbath days, etc. and that because they were not saved by the observance those things. Understand this, if believers in Christ were still under the law, then Christ's fulfillment of it failed. It would mean that the law was still in operation and we all still fall short of it and would be condemned by it. Regarding the first covenant vs. the second covenant, Jesus said the following:

"And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will spill, and the wineskins will be ruined."

The above is a parable regarding the Law vs. grace through faith. The new wine represents the new covenant, with the old representing the Law. If one tries to mix them in order to obtain salvation, it will have the opposite affect, ruination. And that because the one who does so, would be trusting in his own efforts.

"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it."

Those who trust in the works of the law will not inherit the kingdom of God. Using marriage as an example, by law a woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive. But when he dies, she is released from her marriage to her husband. Likewise, those who are in Christ have died to the law and are therefore are no longer bound to it. We belong to another, Jesus Christ.

Many will say to the Lord, "But Lord, Lord! Did we not prophecy in your name, and cast out demons and do many miracles in your name?" Their response "Did we not" explains the reason as to why they will not enter into the kingdom of God. And that because they will have been trusting in their salvation by what they did, instead of what Christ did.

The good works that we do should be to bring glory to God. And scripture also says by our good works we are building up treasures in heaven. However, if we are trusting in our good works as a means of obtaining or maintaining salvation, then we have wandered away from the gospel, which is Christ crucified, buried and resurrected.

WithinReason · Mar 17, 2020

Look at all the misdirection, wasted space in response. The OP is simple, and its evidence clearly demonstrated. In all the responses so far to those things, I have seen accusation, non-sequitur, red-herring, apples and oranges comparisons, error, and just wasted space of pontification about personal issues and apriori.

It's amazing to watch really. Seriously. Just stand back and look at the responses.

garee · Mar 18, 2020

lightbearer said:

It is all one in the same rest that we enter into. We enter into his rest as the rest from our own works
The word sabbath is used in two ways.One as a moral law that works in us by which we can work to both will and perform his good pleasure and the other as a ceremonial law a shadow rest. . the gospel. A sign to the world that God is the God of all nations . Not a sign unto themselves pertaining to their corrupted flesh and blood. But a sign of the hidden as a representative glory of God .It rest will be revealed in its fullness on the lat day

garee · Mar 18, 2020

Ahwatukee said:

So, have you ever worked on the Sabbath? If so, then you and others who consider the Sabbath as a requirement for salvation are guilty of breaking it. However, it wasn't written to you, but to Israel and those within their gates. As Paul said regarding the food law, the legal feasts, the Sabbaths and holy days:

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

All of the above belong to the law. Paul said, "do not let anyone judge you," i.e. for not observing the food law, religious festivals, holy days, Sabbath days, etc. and that because they were not saved by the observance those things. Understand this, if believers in Christ were still under the law, then Christ's fulfillment of it failed. It would mean that the law was still in operation and we all still fall short of it and would be condemned by it. Regarding the first covenant vs. the second covenant, Jesus said the following:

"And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will spill, and the wineskins will be ruined."

The above is a parable regarding the Law vs. grace through faith. The new wine represents the new covenant, with the old representing the Law. If one tries to mix them in order to obtain salvation, it will have the opposite affect, ruination. And that because the one who does so, would be trusting in his own efforts.

"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it."

Those who trust in the works of the law will not inherit the kingdom of God. Using marriage as an example, by law a woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive. But when he dies, she is released from her marriage to her husband. Likewise, those who are in Christ have died to the law and are therefore are no longer bound to it. We belong to another, Jesus Christ.

Many will say to the Lord, "But Lord, Lord! Did we not prophecy in your name, and cast out demons and do many miracles in your name?" Their response "Did we not" explains the reason as to why they will not enter into the kingdom of God. And that because they will have been trusting in their salvation by what they did, instead of what Christ did.

The good works that we do should be to bring glory to God. And scripture also says by our good works we are building up treasures in heaven. However, if we are trusting in our good works as a means of obtaining or maintaining salvation, then we have wandered away from the gospel, which is Christ crucified, buried and resurrected.

Going to church is a work we perform on a Sunday .The sabbath fast sharing our literal bread and daily spiritual bread bread with neighbors in a hope of clothing them with the righteousness of Christ is another good work we do after the power of his name.

Absolutely · Mar 18, 2020

WithinReason said:

What amazes me is that seventh and Saturday are off limits for discussion due the supposed non sequitur of the op author

Absolutely · Mar 18, 2020

Ahwatukee said:

So, have you ever worked on the Sabbath? If so, then you and others who consider the Sabbath as a requirement for salvation are guilty of breaking it. However, it wasn't written to you, but to Israel and those within their gates. As Paul said regarding the food law, the legal feasts, the Sabbaths and holy days:

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

All of the above belong to the law. Paul said, "do not let anyone judge you," i.e. for not observing the food law, religious festivals, holy days, Sabbath days, etc. and that because they were not saved by the observance those things. Understand this, if believers in Christ were still under the law, then Christ's fulfillment of it failed. It would mean that the law was still in operation and we all still fall short of it and would be condemned by it. Regarding the first covenant vs. the second covenant, Jesus said the following:

"And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will spill, and the wineskins will be ruined."

The above is a parable regarding the Law vs. grace through faith. The new wine represents the new covenant, with the old representing the Law. If one tries to mix them in order to obtain salvation, it will have the opposite affect, ruination. And that because the one who does so, would be trusting in his own efforts.

"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it."

Those who trust in the works of the law will not inherit the kingdom of God. Using marriage as an example, by law a woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive. But when he dies, she is released from her marriage to her husband. Likewise, those who are in Christ have died to the law and are therefore are no longer bound to it. We belong to another, Jesus Christ.

Many will say to the Lord, "But Lord, Lord! Did we not prophecy in your name, and cast out demons and do many miracles in your name?" Their response "Did we not" explains the reason as to why they will not enter into the kingdom of God. And that because they will have been trusting in their salvation by what they did, instead of what Christ did.

The good works that we do should be to bring glory to God. And scripture also says by our good works we are building up treasures in heaven. However, if we are trusting in our good works as a means of obtaining or maintaining salvation, then we have wandered away from the gospel, which is Christ crucified, buried and resurrected.

Laws need police.

That dynamic is bondage.

Paul said the righteous man judges all things but he himself is judged of no one.

WithinReason · Mar 18, 2020

Absolutely said:

Sabbath according to scripture, is the 7th day, not a person, though it is about the person who rested the 7th day.

Does the Bible teach the sabbath is a day or a person? What does the Bible say:

God:

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Moses said:

Exo_16:25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.

Exo_31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Exo_35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.

Num_15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

Num_28:9 And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:

Deu_5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

Deu_5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Nehemiah:

Neh_10:31 And if the people of the land bring ware or any victuals on the sabbath day to sell, that we would not buy it of them on the sabbath, or on the holy day: and that we would leave the seventh year, and the exaction of every debt.

Neh_13:15 In those days saw I in Judah some treading wine presses on the sabbath, and bringing in sheaves, and lading asses; as also wine, grapes, and figs, and all manner of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the sabbath day: and I testified against them in the day wherein they sold victuals.

Neh_13:17 Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said unto them, What evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the sabbath day?

Neh_13:19 And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.

Neh_13:22 And I commanded the Levites that they should cleanse themselves, and that they should come and keep the gates, to sanctify the sabbath day. Remember me, O my God, concerning this also, and spare me according to the greatness of thy mercy.

Psalmist:

Psa_92:1 A Psalm or Song for the sabbath day. It is a good thing to give thanks unto the LORD, and to sing praises unto thy name, O most High:

Jeremiah:

Jer_17:21 Thus saith the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem;

Jer_17:22 Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.

Jer_17:24 And it shall come to pass, if ye diligently hearken unto me, saith the LORD, to bring in no burden through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but hallow the sabbath day, to do no work therein;

Jer_17:27 But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.

Ezekiel:

Eze_46:4 And the burnt offering that the prince shall offer unto the LORD in the sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish.

Eze_46:12 Now when the prince shall prepare a voluntary burnt offering or peace offerings voluntarily unto the LORD, one shall then open him the gate that looketh toward the east, and he shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, as he did on the sabbath day: then he shall go forth; and after his going forth one shall shut the gate.

WithinReason · Mar 18, 2020

Absolutely said:

Sabbath according to scripture, is the 7th day, not a person, though it is about the person who rested the 7th day.

Does the Bible teach the sabbath is a day or a person? What does the Bible say:

Matthew:

Mat_12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.

Mat_12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

Mat_12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

Jesus Himself said:

Mat_12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

Mat_12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Mat_12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

Mat_12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

Mat_24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Mar_3:4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

Luk_6:2 And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?

Luk_6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?

Luk_13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

Luk_14:3 And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day?

Luk_14:5 And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?

Joh_7:22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers

and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

Joh_7:23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Mark:

Mar_1:21 And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.

Mar_2:23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.

Mar_2:24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

Mar_3:2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.

Mar_6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?

Luke:

Luk_4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Luk_4:31 And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.

Luk_6:7 And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.

Luk_13:14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.

Luk_14:1 And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him.

Luk_23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

John:

Joh_5:10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.

Joh_5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

Joh_9:14 And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.

Joh_9:16 Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.

Joh_19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

Luke, Paul, Disciples:

Act_1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

Act_13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

Act_13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

Act_13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Act_15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Act_17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Heb_4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Therefore, since there is not a single scripture (KJB) which states that Jesus is our sabbath, but rather that Jesus would "give" us "rest", and His "yoke", we have to ask the question, what is His "yoke" and what is the "rest" that He gives to the Christian?

It is connected with deliverance (Matthew 1:21) from sin (1 John 3:4), and bringing us back into obedience, as He Himself is obedient to His Father's Law.

WithinReason · Mar 18, 2020

garee said:

Ten Commandments are no parable. They are God's own character (name) expressed in written form, as per Exodus 33:12-23, 34:1-9, 20:5-7.

The two reasons are not contradictory, but complimentary, as Creation is given first, and Redemption (Re-Creation) second.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. ["For" means the reason, or because (being the cause)]

Deu 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. ["As" God commanded in Exodus 20:8-11, for "hath" refers to the past, previous event there at Mt. Sinai]

Deu 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:

Deu 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

"And" is in addition, to the previous reason which Deuteronomy 5:12 refers to, being Exodus 20:8-11.

Absolutely · Mar 18, 2020

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

from heb 4

Entering into Jesus rest by faith.

Salvation is not a prayer or obeying ordinances.
Salvation is a person,,,,JESUS.
JESUS is salvation,high priest,kinsman redeemer,and my rest. My rest is not a day. It is a person.

WithinReason · Mar 18, 2020

Absolutely said:

He told you why in Romans, and in Hebrews. They refused to enter.

Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

They could not truly keep the Sabbath of the LORD, which is why they were constantly breaking the commandment, and were taken captive by Babylon, and etc. See Ezekiel 20.

Absolutely · Mar 18, 2020