Iron sharpens iron

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Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,155
3,573
113
59
#21
Made of something else or full of something else...lol?

Don't answer.

I'm in enough trouble already.

:p

Seriously though, we should be looking for others to "rub us the wrong way", so to speak, or to apply "friction" to us when truly needed.

I've always loved the words of the psalmist who said:

"Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness: and let him reprove me; it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head: for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities." (Psalm 141:5)
You have given me understanding today , especially from the word friction , and being rubbed the wrong way...

This is something I am going through with someone at the moment , and it hurts , and I do not like it , but I just come to our Lord in prayer , He always calms the matter , and shows me a way out , but that word " friction " it hurts lol...
...xox...
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,656
1,232
113
#22
I guess that what I am saying is that to be sharpened by Righteousness is one thing, but one must understand when it is apostacy that is doing the sharpening. Anything than the Scripture and Spirit of Truth does not sharpen, it dulls. I'd bet that when Paul made this conclusion about towns / groups, etc, this was when he casts the dust from his sandals in protest and left "them" to their Spiritual Slumber.
Agreed. You got to know him for yourself. You can't always listen to others no matter how hard they may try to beat something into you. Like you said it will only dull you. You got to know the word of God for yourself to know whether they are right or wrong. If they are right you will know it and can move up to it. If they are wrong you will also know it, and need to shake the dust off and walk away from it.
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#23
You have given me understanding today , especially from the word friction , and being rubbed the wrong way...

This is something I am going through with someone at the moment , and it hurts , and I do not like it , but I just come to our Lord in prayer , He always calms the matter , and shows me a way out , but that word " friction " it hurts lol...
...xox...
I've often found that when somebody is "rubbing me the wrong way" they're actually "rubbing me the right way" while I'm headed the wrong way.

Anyhow, sometimes "friction" is from God, and sometimes it's simply Satan trying to lead us astray through others.

We really need to have a relationship with the Lord to understand the difference between the two.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,550
497
83
#24
"Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend." (Proverbs 27:17)

Hey...

As I trust that many of you are already aware, professing Christians love to quote this verse of scripture, but I cannot help but wonder if many of them have any idea whatsoever as to what this verse actually means.

Notice, please, that the verse does NOT say that "Cotton balls sharpeneth iron", but rather that "IRON sharpeneth iron".

Please take the time to watch this extremely short video clip in order to understand what Solomon actually said:


Like it not, in order to actually sharpen iron with iron, smashing blows are pretty much required, even as you've hopefully just seen in the short video clip.

Furthermore, please notice how such smashing blows, in context, are administered to one's "friend".

My point?

Well, that just because someone here (like me) or elsewhere repeatedly smashes you or your theology, this does not necessarily mean that they count you as their enemy.

Instead, it could easily mean that they're trying to help you as a true "friend".

To further illustrate my intended point, Solomon previously said in this very same 27th chapter of the book of Proverbs:

"Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful." (Proverbs 27:5-6)

Again, "faithful are THE WOUNDS of A FRIEND".

If someone is truly your friend, then there are going to be times when they will need to openly rebuke you or faithfully wound you.

If they're truly your friend, then they'll wound you with your potential betterment in mind.

Just to keep this real, as we all know, there are also times when people will savagely attack us...not for our betterment, and not as our friends, but rather as those who would like to destroy us as their enemies.

The trick is in discerning which motivation is behind the one interacting with us.

Anyhow, I've personally and deliberately administered some pretty hard smashes to people here, and I just want you all to know that I'm honestly not out to destroy any of you.

For whatever that's worth.
“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves;

if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭

I think that sometimes telling the truth offends some people , but I think that wounding people for their good isn’t quite what is meant in that verse

Speaking the truth in love is a good thing even if the person might get offended by the truth of Gods word , I think there’s a delicate balance and gentleness, meekness , patience is what sinners actually need to hear the truth


“Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭27:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the company we keep shapes us
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#25
It's been said that "A picture is worth a thousand words".

With that in mind, I offer the following.

Many years ago, I saw the movie "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles" starring John Candy and Steve Martin.

There was one particular scene in that movie that reminds me of the topic at hand.

While driving with Steve Martin as his passenger, John Candy unknowingly heads down the highway at night IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

Two passengers in another vehicle on THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE HIGHWAY seek to warn Candy and Martin that THEY'RE GOING THE WRONG WAY (just like we should be doing when, spiritually speaking, someone is headed in the wrong direction) and that they're going to kill somebody (themselves and/or others).

Of course, they don't listen, and here is what happens:

 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,656
1,232
113
#26
Which is basically what the writer of the epistle to the Hebrews said here:

Hebrews chapter 12

[5] And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
[9] Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
[10] For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
[11] Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

When chastening comes, whether directly from God or indirectly from another, initially, it is not "joyous".

However, if we're "exercised thereby" or if we repent, then it yields or brings forth the peaceable fruit of righteousness as we walk rightly before the Lord.

I cannot speak for anybody else, but I've been praying for the Lord to chasten me (why would I want to be a bastard?) when necessary since I first got saved.

Anything that I presently know that is right, I learned through some form of correction...even if it was just by allowing the scriptures to renew my mind.

Nowadays, if you even glance in someone's direction while trying to help them, then you're accused of judging them or much worse.

Anyhow...
Agreed. I think God gives us a warning before he has to chastise us. Some listen some don't. Like you said nowadays, many are offended by the word of God and no matter how the message is delivered to them they are offended, get hurt, and accuse others of judging and other things...They are not listening to and obeying the Lord and will more than likely be chastised because they are not willing to accept the word of God.

With chastisement, I don't necessarily want or pray for it...I have gotten many good whippings from the Lord in the past which I indeed learned a lesson from, but had I just been obedient to start with I could have avoided some sorrow and anguish. I would much rather just be obedient and listen, but if I'm not for some reason, then I pray the Lord chastise me and do whatever it takes to get my attention.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,550
497
83
#27
Agreed. I think God gives us a warning before he has to chastise us. Some listen some don't. Like you said nowadays, many are offended by the word of God and no matter how the message is delivered to them they are offended, get hurt, and accuse others of judging and other things...They are not listening to and obeying the Lord and will more than likely be chastised because they are not willing to accept the word of God.

With chastisement, I don't necessarily want or pray for it...I have gotten many good whippings from the Lord in the past which I indeed learned a lesson from, but had I just been obedient to start with I could have avoided some sorrow and anguish. I would much rather just be obedient and listen, but if I'm not for some reason, then I pray the Lord chastise me and do whatever it takes to get my attention.
legitament children are disciplined and accept discipline really good thoughts
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#28
“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves;

if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭

I think that sometimes telling the truth offends some people , but I think that wounding people for their good isn’t quite what is meant in that verse

Speaking the truth in love is a good thing even if the person might get offended by the truth of Gods word , I think there’s a delicate balance and gentleness, meekness , patience is what sinners actually need to hear the truth


“Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭27:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the company we keep shapes us
This same Paul also said to the saints at Corinth:

"What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?" (I Corinthians 4:21)

The manner in which the Corinthians were going to respond to what Paul told them determined the manner in which he was going to come to them when he saw them...either with "a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness".

Here's the way that I look at it.

Our desire, as those who profess to know Christ or as "laborers together with God" (I Cor. 3:9), should always be to either "plant" or "water" the "incorruptible" seed of "the word of God" (I Pet. 1:23) so that God might "give the increase" (I Cor. 3:7).

Hopefully, we're all at least in agreement in this regard.

Here's the thing though.

Sometimes the soil of peoples' hearts, figuratively speaking, is soft and pliable, and sometimes it is as hard as a rock.

If it's soft and pliable, then we can gently overturn the soil in order to "plant" and then "water" that which has been planted.

If it's hard as a rock, well...sorry, but that little garden spade that you're holding simply isn't going to get the job done, and it's time to head back to the garage in order to grab the pitchfork.

My point is this:

How much "force" we apply while attempting to do God's work isn't necessarily a bad reflection upon us. In other words, it's oftentimes necessary in that we're dealing with people (or they're dealing with us) who are hard-hearted at that point in time.

Again, somebody could easily misuse this principle in order to basically stab others to death, but just because something can be applied in the wrong manner, this does not negate the proper manner in which to do so.

Anyhow, that's how I see it.

There have been times when I've either been strongly rebuked by God himself or others FOR MY OWN GOOD, and I'm truly thankful for those times.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#31
Not much to argue about here. Even the filing that brings and edge to a razor, is iron sharpening iron.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#32
Patient, apt to teach, easy to be entreated, these are the characteristics of one who is walking in the wisdom that is from above.

Then there are tried and true methods of communication such as what Benjamin Franklin made famous, i.e. never starting a sentence with "You're mistaken/wrong/ etc. Or words like No, or Nonsense, and many other negative forms of addressing someone. If you want to win over your opponent you have to begin with words like "Yes... And, have you also noticed that it says... etc..." Not that you may always be able to start with "Yes, and.. " but often you can and it is a miracle worker in coming to a consensus.

In CC people seem to assume that they are speaking to a gnostic demon rather than someone who is genuinely wanting to know what the scriptures mean. If we assume that they are sincere we will talk to them differently than if we assume they are the devil in disguise.

If we really think they are the devil in disguise we should use the ignore feature as there is very little chance that we are going to please God by engaging with the devil.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#33
Don't be too sure."

I tend to bring out the worst in everybody...lol.

:p
Meh, we don't have to agree on everything, or even most things, we can duke it out and I'll be happy to call you brother as long as you hold to the good confession.
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#35
Agreed. I think God gives us a warning before he has to chastise us. Some listen some don't. Like you said nowadays, many are offended by the word of God and no matter how the message is delivered to them they are offended, get hurt, and accuse others of judging and other things...They are not listening to and obeying the Lord and will more than likely be chastised because they are not willing to accept the word of God.

With chastisement, I don't necessarily want or pray for it...I have gotten many good whippings from the Lord in the past which I indeed learned a lesson from, but had I just been obedient to start with I could have avoided some sorrow and anguish. I would much rather just be obedient and listen, but if I'm not for some reason, then I pray the Lord chastise me and do whatever it takes to get my attention.
That part about "no matter how the message is delivered to them they are offended, get hurt, and accuse others of judging" is so, so true.

I believe that we see a clear-cut example of this here:

Matthew chapter 11

[16] But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
[17] And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
[18] For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
[19] The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

John the Baptist came neither eating nor drinking, and they said he had a devil (demon).

Jesus came eating and drinking, and they said that he was a glutton, a winebibber, and a friend of publicans and sinners.

In other words, as you so rightfully said, no matter how the message was delivered, they simply weren't going to hear it.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,550
497
83
#37
This same Paul also said to the saints at Corinth:

"What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?" (I Corinthians 4:21)

The manner in which the Corinthians were going to respond to what Paul told them determined the manner in which he was going to come to them when he saw them...either with "a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness".

Here's the way that I look at it.

Our desire, as those who profess to know Christ or as "laborers together with God" (I Cor. 3:9), should always be to either "plant" or "water" the "incorruptible" seed of "the word of God" (I Pet. 1:23) so that God might "give the increase" (I Cor. 3:7).

Hopefully, we're all at least in agreement in this regard.

Here's the thing though.

Sometimes the soil of peoples' hearts, figuratively speaking, is soft and pliable, and sometimes it is as hard as a rock.

If it's soft and pliable, then we can gently overturn the soil in order to "plant" and then "water" that which has been planted.

If it's hard as a rock, well...sorry, but that little garden spade that you're holding simply isn't going to get the job done, and it's time to head back to the garage in order to grab the pitchfork.

My point is this:

How much "force" we apply while attempting to do God's work isn't necessarily a bad reflection upon us. In other words, it's oftentimes necessary in that we're dealing with people (or they're dealing with us) who are hard-hearted at that point in time.

Again, somebody could easily misuse this principle in order to basically stab others to death, but just because something can be applied in the wrong manner, this does not negate the proper manner in which to do so.

Anyhow, that's how I see it.

There have been times when I've either been strongly rebuked by God himself or others FOR MY OWN GOOD, and I'm truly thankful for those times.
yes Paul said that he himself might bring a rod ,are you like Paul tho? Or would you be in the group he might have to discipline ?

I’m not sure that’s an instruction comparable to the other which is a clear instruction what Paul was warning the Corinthians about he had the right place to do so , his work had planted and cultivated them as a church that’s not an instruction for us to be disipflinong anyone I don’t think I think our instructions are pretty clear

“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the law of Moses is a sledgehammer for correcting sinners , the gospel is about mercy and truth along with the fear of the lord all created by the word of Christ mercy truth and the fear of God

By mercy and truth iniquity is purged:

and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭16:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think it matters who were dealing with a pastor or someone in position of power , or a Christian maybe who promotes sin probably deserves a rebuke and wound in love I suppose maybe

I think that Paul warning he might have to use a rod doesn’t instruct us on dealing with each other and our instruction is to offer mercy and truth together along with the word regarding eternal judgement to create the fear needed to cause us to depart from evil


I notice how Jesus dealt with sinners who knew they were sinners and then how he dealt with the self righteous sinners who thought they were righteous.

two very different models in dealing with others but brother , it’s not so much me disagreeing with you but just offering some thought I didn’t see in the op there’s a lot to what you are saying also I think gentleness reaches further than a blow from iron often is all I’m saying

I actually really enjoyed your post just felt that verse needed to be left in the thread about gentleness and patience is suppose there are places and times for both methods but I would think much much more often, the gentleness patience and grace offered reached deeper into a heart whereas a hard blow even meant for their good , might be the one that knocks them off the train
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
1,157
468
83
#38
Paul's referencing his arrival with a rod is not to be taken seriously. Paul would never beat anyone with a rod.
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#39
yes Paul said that he himself might bring a rod ,are you like Paul tho? Or would you be in the group he might have to discipline ?

I’m not sure that’s an instruction comparable to the other which is a clear instruction what Paul was warning the Corinthians about he had the right place to do so , his work had planted and cultivated them as a church that’s not an instruction for us to be disipflinong anyone I don’t think I think our instructions are pretty clear

“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the law of Moses is a sledgehammer for correcting sinners , the gospel is about mercy and truth along with the fear of the lord all created by the word of Christ mercy truth and the fear of God

By mercy and truth iniquity is purged:

and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭16:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think it matters who were dealing with a pastor or someone in position of power , or a Christian maybe who promotes sin probably deserves a rebuke and wound in love I suppose maybe

I think that Paul warning he might have to use a rod doesn’t instruct us on dealing with each other and our instruction is to offer mercy and truth together along with the word regarding eternal judgement to create the fear needed to cause us to depart from evil


I notice how Jesus dealt with sinners who knew they were sinners and then how he dealt with the self righteous sinners who thought they were righteous.

two very different models in dealing with others but brother , it’s not so much me disagreeing with you but just offering some thought I didn’t see in the op there’s a lot to what you are saying also I think gentleness reaches further than a blow from iron often is all I’m saying

I actually really enjoyed your post just felt that verse needed to be left in the thread about gentleness and patience is suppose there are places and times for both methods but I would think much much more often, the gentleness patience and grace offered reached deeper into a heart whereas a hard blow even meant for their good , might be the one that knocks them off the train
...and, in the very same epistle, he told Timothy:

II Timothy chapter 4

[2] Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
[3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
[4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Look, I'm honestly NOT trying to give anybody here "a license to kill", so to speak.

Instead, I'm merely saying, in light of my original post, that "iron", and not cotton balls or some soft fluffy message, sharpens iron.

Are you a piece of "iron", figuratively/spiritually speaking?

Well, if you are, then you should expect other pieces of "iron" to grate against you, for your own good, in your "sharpening" process.

That's simply not what we see most of time today.

Rather than allowing themselves to be "sharpened", most people get terribly bent out of shape at the slightest form of correction.

THIS is what I'm trying to actually address here.
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#40
Paul's referencing his arrival with a rod is not to be taken seriously. Paul would never beat anyone with a rod.
And I certainly wasn't suggesting that he would.

It is to be taken seriously, but not literally.

In other words, they were in for some pretty serious rebukes if they didn't repent.