Iron sharpens iron

Live4Him · Mar 13, 2021

"Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend." (Proverbs 27:17)

Hey...

As I trust that many of you are already aware, professing Christians love to quote this verse of scripture, but I cannot help but wonder if many of them have any idea whatsoever as to what this verse actually means.

Notice, please, that the verse does NOT say that "Cotton balls sharpeneth iron", but rather that "IRON sharpeneth iron".

Please take the time to watch this extremely short video clip in order to understand what Solomon actually said:

Like it not, in order to actually sharpen iron with iron, smashing blows are pretty much required, even as you've hopefully just seen in the short video clip.

Furthermore, please notice how such smashing blows, in context, are administered to one's "friend".

My point?

Well, that just because someone here (like me) or elsewhere repeatedly smashes you or your theology, this does not necessarily mean that they count you as their enemy.

Instead, it could easily mean that they're trying to help you as a true "friend".

To further illustrate my intended point, Solomon previously said in this very same 27th chapter of the book of Proverbs:

"Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful." (Proverbs 27:5-6)

Again, "faithful are THE WOUNDS of A FRIEND".

If someone is truly your friend, then there are going to be times when they will need to openly rebuke you or faithfully wound you.

If they're truly your friend, then they'll wound you with your potential betterment in mind.

Just to keep this real, as we all know, there are also times when people will savagely attack us...not for our betterment, and not as our friends, but rather as those who would like to destroy us as their enemies.

The trick is in discerning which motivation is behind the one interacting with us.

Anyhow, I've personally and deliberately administered some pretty hard smashes to people here, and I just want you all to know that I'm honestly not out to destroy any of you.

For whatever that's worth.

Live4Him · Mar 13, 2021

Whoops.

That should have said "Like it OR not".

I'm surprised that nobody "hammered me" on that...lol.

1ofthem · Mar 13, 2021

Agreed.

For me when it gets to the point of name calling...then it's time to walk out. We can share the truth of the scripture without personally attacking people.

Personal attacks are taking it too far, imo... I don't know anything about sharpening iron...So I could be wrong, but looks like you could mangle it up and break it or something if you go to far or hit it too hard. I guess, the same could be said if you don't hit hard enough. Might take a skilled iron smith to get it right...IDK...But I do know that when interacting with others, we should follow the lead of the Lord. He is the Master and he knows where everyone stands and what they need to hear and how to deal with everyone.

In Jude, it says to have compassion on some making a difference, but on others save with fear pulling them out of the fire. So I guess, it takes some balance and discernment. That's why it pays to listen to the Lord and not get in ourselves.

God knows I've sure took it too far and went to hard before and made a mess of things. Had to repent, apologize, and all that because I got in myself and really wasn't doing it God's way. However, if I had been listening to the Lord and doing it his way, even if it hurt someone's feelings, then I wouldn't have had to apologize because godly sorrow worketh repentance.

To make a long story short...I guess what I'm saying is it takes some balance.

Lanolin · Mar 13, 2021

iron sharpens iron?
But I thought when you sharpen something you dont smash it up, you just go back and forth like a saw.
At least, thats how I sharpen my gardening tools and secateurs with the sharpening stone.

If I smashed them theyd just break up and fall apart.

Lanolin · Mar 13, 2021

Hammer and anvil is used when FORGING iron, ie. making it.

tourist · Mar 13, 2021

Rock, hammer, scissors.

1ofthem · Mar 13, 2021

tourist said:

I thought it was rock, paper, scissors.

I'm paper so hope your not scissors cause I sure don't want to get cut....lol

No wait forget that I'll be the hammer....It can't lose...lol

Nehemiah6 · Mar 13, 2021

Live4Him said:

I do not watch video clips, but your basic premise in false. You do not sharpen any blade by smashing it. Rather it is moved back and forth against steel until the edge become sharp.

So how does this apply in the spiritual realm? You correct error with the Sword of the Spirit, which is a two-edged sword, and it is the Word of God. It is to be used for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16).

Live4Him · Mar 13, 2021

Nehemiah6 said:

My basic premise isn't false because initially the iron is made sharp via "smashing".

Similarly, later sharpenings involve much FRICTION, whether by a sharpening stone or file, so the basic premise is still the same.

Live4Him · Mar 13, 2021

Lanolin said:

Hi, Lanolin.

In sharpenings after the initial sharpening while being forged, this is correct.

Even then, however, there is much FRICTION involved in the sharpening process, and that's what I was trying to address in my OP.

Perhaps I could have done a better job in explaining initially, but I guess that's what the comment section is for.

Thanks for sharing.

Live4Him · Mar 13, 2021

Lanolin said:

True, but the iron is still being sharpened by iron during this initial stage.

2ndTimothyGroup · Mar 13, 2021

I've been looking for another made of Iron to sharpen me. The problem is, is that there are very few . . . anywhere . . . that are actually made of Iron, but made of something else.

Live4Him · Mar 13, 2021

2ndTimothyGroup said:

Made of something else or full of something else...lol?

Don't answer.

I'm in enough trouble already.

Seriously though, we should be looking for others to "rub us the wrong way", so to speak, or to apply "friction" to us when truly needed.

I've always loved the words of the psalmist who said:

"Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness: and let him reprove me; it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head: for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities." (Psalm 141:5)

1ofthem · Mar 13, 2021

2ndTimothyGroup said:

That's why it's best to take it to the Father. He is the Genuine. No mistakes in him, and he can mold us perfectly.

It's good to fellowship and learn from others, but we can't always depend on men. The Lord says look not to the right or the left but look straight to me and I will teach you.

p_rehbein · Mar 13, 2021

One thing I have found about this Scripture is that people use it as an excuse to rail at those who disagree with their view of Scripture. As if they are given a Scriptural "pass" to belittle and insult others. That is completely the WRONG interpretation of this Scripture IMO.

(some views)

EXCERPT:
But in our Christian fellowship, we have the responsibility before God to work to rub off on each other for good. As long as we are conducting ourselves aright, it will rub off in the right way. In other words, all we have to do is work on ourselves. If we work on ourselves, then the projection of the self, the spirit that will go out from us, will be right, and it will have the right kind of impact.

HERE:

Proverbs 27:17 (KJV) - Forerunner Commentary

Gills Commentary says:

Iron sharpeneth iron
A sword or knife made of iron is sharpened by it; so butchers sharpen their knives; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend;
by conversation with him; thus learned men sharpen one another's minds, and excite each other to learned studies; Christians sharpen one another's graces, or stir up each other to the exercise of them, and the gifts which are bestowed on them, and to love and to good works. So Jarchi and Gersom understand it of the sharpening of men's minds to the learning of doctrine; but Aben Ezra, takes it in an ill sense, that as iron strikes iron and sharpens it, so a wrathful man irritates and provokes wrath in another. Some render the words, "as iron delighteth in iron, so a man rejoiceth the countenance of his friend", F9: by his company and conversation.

Benson Commentary
Proverbs 27:17. Iron sharpeneth iron — Iron tools are made sharp, and fit for use, by rubbing them against the file, or some other iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend — Quickens his ingenuity, enlivens his affections, strengthens his judgment, excites him to virtuous and useful actions, and makes him, in all respects, a better man. The countenance is here put for the mind or spirit, the state and disposition of which are commonly visible in men’s countenances.

Matthew Poole's Commentary
Iron cutting tools are made bright, and sharp, and fit for use by rubbing them against the file, or some other iron. So a man, who being alone is sad, and dull, and unactive, by the company and conversation of his friend is greatly refreshed, his very wits are sharpened, and his spirit revived, and he is both fitted for and provoked to action.

The countenance is here put for the mind or spirit, whose temper or disposition is commonly visible in men’s countenances.

My take on this is that none of the Commentaries state that it is OK to "smash" or "beat up on" a fellow Christian. In fact, I affirm that Jesus Himself would be greatly offended by such a suggestion.

John 13:34 - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

1 John 4:20 - If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Romans 12:10 - [Be] kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;

Luke 6:31 - And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

1 John 4:11 - Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

1ofthem · Mar 13, 2021

Live4Him said:

Yeah, sometimes the word of God will hit us and it is not always a pleasant feeling, sometimes it hurts our feelings, but that is how we learn and grow.

I've sit in church meetings before, listening to the word of God being preached, and it felt like it cut me up one side and down the other. Not a great feeling, but it did make me repent and want to grow and move up in my walk with the Lord.

1ofthem · Mar 13, 2021

p_rehbein said:

One thing I have found about this Scripture is that people use it as an excuse to rail at those who disagree with their view of Scripture. As if they are given a Scriptural "pass" to belittle and insult others. That is completely the WRONG interpretation of this Scripture IMO.

(some views)

EXCERPT:
But in our Christian fellowship, we have the responsibility before God to work to rub off on each other for good. As long as we are conducting ourselves aright, it will rub off in the right way. In other words, all we have to do is work on ourselves. If we work on ourselves, then the projection of the self, the spirit that will go out from us, will be right, and it will have the right kind of impact.

HERE:

Proverbs 27:17 (KJV) - Forerunner Commentary

Gills Commentary says:

Iron sharpeneth iron
A sword or knife made of iron is sharpened by it; so butchers sharpen their knives; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend;
by conversation with him; thus learned men sharpen one another's minds, and excite each other to learned studies; Christians sharpen one another's graces, or stir up each other to the exercise of them, and the gifts which are bestowed on them, and to love and to good works. So Jarchi and Gersom understand it of the sharpening of men's minds to the learning of doctrine; but Aben Ezra, takes it in an ill sense, that as iron strikes iron and sharpens it, so a wrathful man irritates and provokes wrath in another. Some render the words, "as iron delighteth in iron, so a man rejoiceth the countenance of his friend", F9: by his company and conversation.

Benson Commentary
Proverbs 27:17. Iron sharpeneth iron — Iron tools are made sharp, and fit for use, by rubbing them against the file, or some other iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend — Quickens his ingenuity, enlivens his affections, strengthens his judgment, excites him to virtuous and useful actions, and makes him, in all respects, a better man. The countenance is here put for the mind or spirit, the state and disposition of which are commonly visible in men’s countenances.

Matthew Poole's Commentary
Iron cutting tools are made bright, and sharp, and fit for use by rubbing them against the file, or some other iron. So a man, who being alone is sad, and dull, and unactive, by the company and conversation of his friend is greatly refreshed, his very wits are sharpened, and his spirit revived, and he is both fitted for and provoked to action.

The countenance is here put for the mind or spirit, whose temper or disposition is commonly visible in men’s countenances.

My take on this is that none of the Commentaries state that it is OK to "smash" or "beat up on" a fellow Christian. In fact, I affirm that Jesus Himself would be greatly offended by such a suggestion.

John 13:34 - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

1 John 4:20 - If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Romans 12:10 - [Be] kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;

Luke 6:31 - And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

1 John 4:11 - Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

Yeah, I think that is where we need to learn to use balance and discernment.

We are not supposed be trying to beat each other down or cut each other to pieces with the word or God.

Got to use wisdom with judgement.

Live4Him · Mar 13, 2021

p_rehbein said:

One thing I have found about this Scripture is that people use it as an excuse to rail at those who disagree with their view of Scripture. As if they are given a Scriptural "pass" to belittle and insult others. That is completely the WRONG interpretation of this Scripture IMO.

(some views)

EXCERPT:
But in our Christian fellowship, we have the responsibility before God to work to rub off on each other for good. As long as we are conducting ourselves aright, it will rub off in the right way. In other words, all we have to do is work on ourselves. If we work on ourselves, then the projection of the self, the spirit that will go out from us, will be right, and it will have the right kind of impact.

HERE:

Proverbs 27:17 (KJV) - Forerunner Commentary

Gills Commentary says:

Iron sharpeneth iron
A sword or knife made of iron is sharpened by it; so butchers sharpen their knives; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend;
by conversation with him; thus learned men sharpen one another's minds, and excite each other to learned studies; Christians sharpen one another's graces, or stir up each other to the exercise of them, and the gifts which are bestowed on them, and to love and to good works. So Jarchi and Gersom understand it of the sharpening of men's minds to the learning of doctrine; but Aben Ezra, takes it in an ill sense, that as iron strikes iron and sharpens it, so a wrathful man irritates and provokes wrath in another. Some render the words, "as iron delighteth in iron, so a man rejoiceth the countenance of his friend", F9: by his company and conversation.

Benson Commentary
Proverbs 27:17. Iron sharpeneth iron — Iron tools are made sharp, and fit for use, by rubbing them against the file, or some other iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend — Quickens his ingenuity, enlivens his affections, strengthens his judgment, excites him to virtuous and useful actions, and makes him, in all respects, a better man. The countenance is here put for the mind or spirit, the state and disposition of which are commonly visible in men’s countenances.

Matthew Poole's Commentary
Iron cutting tools are made bright, and sharp, and fit for use by rubbing them against the file, or some other iron. So a man, who being alone is sad, and dull, and unactive, by the company and conversation of his friend is greatly refreshed, his very wits are sharpened, and his spirit revived, and he is both fitted for and provoked to action.

The countenance is here put for the mind or spirit, whose temper or disposition is commonly visible in men’s countenances.

My take on this is that none of the Commentaries state that it is OK to "smash" or "beat up on" a fellow Christian. In fact, I affirm that Jesus Himself would be greatly offended by such a suggestion.

John 13:34 - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

1 John 4:20 - If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Romans 12:10 - [Be] kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;

Luke 6:31 - And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

1 John 4:11 - Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

The scripture can definitely be abused, which is why I said in my OP:

Anyhow, Solomon spoke of "iron sharpening iron", and, whether it's in the initial stage or subsequent stages, there is "hammering" or some sort of "friction" involved.

2ndTimothyGroup · Mar 13, 2021

I guess that what I am saying is that to be sharpened by Righteousness is one thing, but one must understand when it is apostacy that is doing the sharpening. Anything than the Scripture and Spirit of Truth does not sharpen, it dulls. I'd bet that when Paul made this conclusion about towns / groups, etc, this was when he casts the dust from his sandals in protest and left "them" to their Spiritual Slumber.

Live4Him · Mar 13, 2021

1ofthem said:

Which is basically what the writer of the epistle to the Hebrews said here:

Hebrews chapter 12

[5] And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
[9] Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
[10] For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
[11] Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

When chastening comes, whether directly from God or indirectly from another, initially, it is not "joyous".

However, if we're "exercised thereby" or if we repent, then it yields or brings forth the peaceable fruit of righteousness as we walk rightly before the Lord.

I cannot speak for anybody else, but I've been praying for the Lord to chasten me (why would I want to be a bastard?) when necessary since I first got saved.

Anything that I presently know that is right, I learned through some form of correction...even if it was just by allowing the scriptures to renew my mind.

Nowadays, if you even glance in someone's direction while trying to help them, then you're accused of judging them or much worse.

Anyhow...

Iron sharpens iron

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