Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

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Polar

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Nothing wrong with rrpeating the truth. Maybe it will eventually sink in for those who are unknowing or choose to reject it out of their ignorance, or predicated upon a false doctrine they've come to believe.
exactly

we should both repeat, teach and reflect on the TRUTH

maybe it will sink in that most people do not agree that water washes away sin

you are free to believe that but scripture does not teach that
 

ResidentAlien

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"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," Matthew 28:19

"Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" Acts 2:38

"And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord." Acts 10:48

"When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Acts 19:5

Here are four passages, all saying something different. We better figure this out fast or we're all going straight to Hell.
 

cv5

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"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," Matthew 28:19

"Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" Acts 2:38

"And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord." Acts 10:48

"When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Acts 19:5

Here are four passages, all saying something different. We better figure this out fast or we're all going straight to Hell.
Wansvic........what say ye?

I mean, if you insist on a peculiar method, tell us which one is effective. And which ones are not.
 

Wansvic

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Paul was taught of the old law by the best teacher in his day, and went about persecuting the church, with all good conscience, which tells me that he was one of God's elect redeemed from his sins on the cross. He was already born again at the event that took place on the road to Damascus. At this event Paul was converted (turned around) to understand the truth.

There is a difference in being born again and conversion. Conversion can happen at the same time that a person is born again, but most of the time conversion comes sometime after the new birth.
No one is born again without their sins having been dwelt with in association with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. And according to Ananias the stain of Paul's sin was not dwelt with until he believed and obeyed the command to be baptized in water.

Remember it was Jesus who sent Saul/Paul to Ananias to be instructed what was required of him:

"And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do." (Acts 9:1-20; 22:16)
 

Wansvic

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No argument there. Nevertheless, rites, rituals and ordinances have zero salvific value. Never did never will. They are types and shadows, meant to bring us to remembrance.

Heb 9:9
Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

Heb 9:10
Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.


Heb 10:1
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
The scriptures you reference pertain to the OT laws. Water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin is a command for those living in the NT.
 

Wansvic

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No argument there. Nevertheless, rites, rituals and ordinances have zero salvific value. Never did never will. They are types and shadows, meant to bring us to remembrance.

Heb 9:9
Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

Heb 9:10
Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.


Heb 10:1
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
The scriptures you reference pertain to OT laws. Water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin is NOT part of the OT law. It is a NT command required of everyone. (Acts 2:36-42, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)
 

cv5

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The scriptures you reference pertain to OT laws. Water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin is NOT part of the OT law. It is a NT command required of everyone. (Acts 2:36-42, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)
Dodging the point are we?
So let me ask you pointedly: does physical water wash away sins? yes or no.
 

Wansvic

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So....physical water is that which actually washes away sins? Yea....sounds very Roman Catholicy to me...
It's actually obedience to the command in association with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection that brings about the reality. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) The Roman Catholic Church does not follow the command as instituted in the NT. They baptize infants, and do so in their traditional way by administering it in the phrase, "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Neither practice is witnessed in the word. However, if they did believe and obey the NT command as instructed. God would not allow His word to return void; their sins would in fact be washed away because God said so.
 

Wansvic

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"The blood of Jesus seals the covenant of grace, and makes it for ever sure."
-Spurgeon

Since when is baptism part of the New Covenant sealed by His blood?
Acts 2:36-42, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16.
 

cv5

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Acts 2:36-42, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16.
Dodging the point are we?
So let me ask you pointedly: does physical water wash away sins? yes or no.
 

Wansvic

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.



Were the common interpretation of that verse a hard and fast rule for
salvation, folks would have to undergo ritual baptism each and every time
they needed to wash away their sins.


However, the thing is: there's no punctuation in classic Koiné Greek, so
scholars insert it in English translations arbitrarily, i.e. at their own discretion
where they think there should be some. So then, here's that passage first in
its usual form, and then with its punctuation arbitrarily repositioned.


"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins,
calling on the name of the Lord."


"And now why tarriest thou? arise and be baptized; and wash away thy sins
calling on the name of the Lord."


All thru the Bible, the usual means for cleansing oneself of sins has been by
means of confession; and it still is.


Ps 32:5-6 . . I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I
not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto The Lord; and thou
forgavest the iniquity of my sin. For this shall every one that is godly pray
unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found.


1John 1:9 . . If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our
sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
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Water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin is essential to the NT rebirth. And is only required one time. Afterward, when a born again believer sins they are to repent and make an appeal to Jesus for forgiveness.
 

Wansvic

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" The blood of Jesus seals the covenant of grace, and makes it for ever sure. Covenants of old were made by sacrifice, and the everlasting covenant was ratified in the same manner. Oh, the delight of being saved upon the sure foundation of divine engagements which cannot be dishonoured! Salvation by the works of the law is a frail and broken vessel whose shipwreck is sure; but the covenant vessel fears no storms, for the blood ensures the whole. "

-Spurgeon
Quote Spurgeon if you must. I'll continue sharing God's actual word.
 

Wansvic

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Your post made me wonder about something...
I don't know of any Scripture that speaks to the Apostles getting baptized in Jesus' name after His death/Resurrection?
Correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Anyway, I assume that they were baptized earlier for the remission of sin... either by John or someone else (perhaps Jesus himself(?).
IDK...
There are no scriptures that I know of that specifically say so. But I believe they did. And I come to that conclusion from other scripture references. Jesus said repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem; pointing to the command first given at Pentecost. "Repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin... That message explicitly stated that everyone was submit to it. (Luke 24:47, 2:38-39)
 

cv5

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There are no scriptures that I know of that specifically say so. But I believe they did. And I come to that conclusion from other scripture references. Jesus said repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem; pointing to the command first given at Pentecost. "Repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin... That message explicitly stated that everyone was submit to it. (Luke 24:47, 2:38-39)
So let me ask you pointedly: does physical water wash away sins? yes or no.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," Matthew 28:19

"Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" Acts 2:38

"And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord." Acts 10:48

"When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Acts 19:5

Here are four passages, all saying something different. We better figure this out fast or we're all going straight to Hell.
Jesus expressly said to baptize in a name. Father, Son and Holy Ghost are titles not names.

All 4 reference a name. The one crucified to save all of humanity; Jesus.
 

cv5

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Jesus expressly said to baptize in a name. Father, Son and Holy Ghost are titles not names.

All 4 reference a name. The one crucified to save all of humanity; Jesus.
You are going to have to prove that there never was a person saved without the additional ritual of baptism. The Pharisees were tricky like that too.
 

Wansvic

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Wansvic........what say ye?

I mean, if you insist on a peculiar method, tell us which one is effective. And which ones are not.
Mock all you want. Jesus is the name of the one crucified to save all of humanity. Obedience to water baptism in His name is what brings about remission of sin in accordance with His death, burial and resurrection.

Paul speaks to the truth concerning the NAME to be used in baptism: "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" 1 Cor. 1:13;

Since nothing else seems to be making an impact maybe Paul's words on the subject will help some to see the truth.
 

cv5

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Jesus expressly said to baptize in a name. Father, Son and Holy Ghost are titles not names.

All 4 reference a name. The one crucified to save all of humanity; Jesus.
That dodge is not working for me. Try harder.
 

cv5

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Obedience to water baptism in His name is what brings about remission of sin
I will stick with faith alone in His completed work and His perfect obedience.

Feel free to trust in your own works, your obedience, your rigorous adherence to rituals as you wish.
 

Webers.Home

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Quote Spurgeon if you must. I'll continue sharing God's actual word.

I don't recommend the self-taught route in Bible study. In point of fact,
Jesus has been gracious enough to designate certain ones among his own to
teach, and others to learn from teaching.

Eph 4:11-14 . . He is the one who gave these gifts to the church: the
apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. Their
responsibility is to equip God's people to do his work and build up the
church, the body of Christ, until we come to such unity in our faith and
knowledge of God's Son that we will be mature and full grown in the Lord,
measuring up to the full stature of Christ.

Self-taught Bible students run the risk of stunting their own growth due to
lack of proper nourishment; not to mention filling their heads with lots of
self-taught errors not easily corrected.

Neh 8:8 . . So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave
the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

There you go; that's how it's done. Quoting is nice, but much enhanced
when accompanied by intelligent commentary.
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