Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
Dodging the point are we?
So let me ask you pointedly: does physical water wash away sins? yes or no.
The water is not the point. It is the obedience to the God-given command, associated with Jesus' sacrifice, that results in bringing about what God said it would. You either believe Him or you don't.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,319
3,619
113
Baptism doesn't require any verbal formula; your intention is what matters, not the words. If your intention is to be baptized into the Lord then you will be. If a person wants to use a verbal formula I see nothing wrong with it, but mandatory verbal formulas are little more hocus-pocus and misses the whole point of baptism.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
You are going to have to prove that there never was a person saved without the additional ritual of baptism. The Pharisees were tricky like that too.
This comment has nothing to do with the point being made concerning the fact that water baptism is to administered in the name of Jesus.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
I will stick with faith alone in His completed work and His perfect obedience.

Feel free to trust in your own works, your obedience, your rigorous adherence to rituals as you wish.
Why deflect? My post was concerning the use of the name of Jesus in administering baptism. That is what we were discussing. No comment concerning what Paul said about the use of Jesus' name?

My post "Mock all you want. Jesus is the name of the one crucified to save all of humanity. Obedience to water baptism in His name is what brings about remission of sin in accordance with His death, burial and resurrection.

Paul speaks to the truth concerning the NAME to be used in baptism: "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" 1 Cor. 1:13;

Since nothing else seems to be making an impact maybe Paul's words on the subject will help some to see the truth."
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
Baptism doesn't require any verbal formula; your intention is what matters, not the words. If your intention is to be baptized into the Lord then you will be. If a person wants to use a verbal formula I see nothing wrong with it, but mandatory verbal formulas are little more hocus-pocus and misses the whole point of baptism.
The apostles consistently administered water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. And it is through scripture that one can be assured that what they believe concerning biblical subjects is accurate.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: "
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,034
8,375
113
Mock all you want. Jesus is the name of the one crucified to save all of humanity. Obedience to water baptism in His name is what brings about remission of sin in accordance with His death, burial and resurrection.

Paul speaks to the truth concerning the NAME to be used in baptism: "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" 1 Cor. 1:13;

Since nothing else seems to be making an impact maybe Paul's words on the subject will help some to see the truth.
Oooohhhh I see. So YOU are the final arbiter on this delicate technical matter huh?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,034
8,375
113
This comment has nothing to do with the point being made concerning the fact that water baptism is to administered in the name of Jesus.
So answer my question. Dodging is a dead giveaway as far as decievers go.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,319
3,619
113
The apostles consistently administered water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. And it is through scripture that one can be assured that what they believe concerning biblical subjects is accurate.
You assume that when it says "baptize in the name of" that those exact words were said. Where are the records of what they actually said? Where does it say: "And when they went under the water so and so said 'I baptize you in the name of Jesus.' " Where does it say any such verbal formula was used or required?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,034
8,375
113
The water is not the point. It is the obedience to the God-given command, associated with Jesus' sacrifice, that results in bringing about what God said it would. You either believe Him or you don't.
Oh I see. So water WAS absolutely essential (dunked daubed or sprinkled?). But now you have moved the goalposts and it is actually OBEDIENCE that is the essential work we must ourselves provide before God sees fit to redeem us.

Make up your mind bro....
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,117
1,747
113
Is baptism in the name of Jesus only, modalism/oneness theology?

If so why and how does it stand in contrast with the theology of the trinity?
If you wish to go by what Jesus told the apostles, just before he ascended back to heaven...

"18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to follow all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,117
1,747
113
1 Pet 3:21 - The like figure (Noah being saved from drowning) whereunto even baptism doth also now save (deliver) us from our guilt, as baptism is an answer of a good conscience toward God. Save, according to Greek interpretation means deliver.
I see the example of Noah being that he and his family were saved from sin (the world) by the washing of water (the flood).
Sin was "washed away" through the flood, and only Noah and his family were "saved/delivered".... therefore, they were saved "through water".
I believe this is the parallel being drawn between baptism and Noah... just as sin was washed away by the flood, sin is also washed away through the waters of baptism.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,117
1,747
113
Dodging the point are we?
So let me ask you pointedly: does physical water wash away sins? yes or no.
This mentality is why I refer to salvation as a "process".... there are too many people that want to nit-pick down to the "jot and tittle" about "when" a specific event happens... sounds pretty much like the Pharisees of old.

Scripture doesn't record each and every event that takes place, in each and every "conversion story"... so, if a person has an agenda to promote, they can pick the conversion story that fits their narrative and claim "this is all that is required!"
One story says, by faith they are saved.... another says they are saved through grace... other scriptures say baptism saves us....

To rightly divide the truth, we should take ALL scriptures that pertain to salvation and do what is taught.... and we should pay special attention to the verses that answer the question "what should we do to be saved?"

In order to be saved, there are several things that have to happen... a person first of all must hear the good news of Jesus (one of those 'duh' things, I know) You cannot believe if you don't know what he did for the world.

Then the person must believe the good news they heard... cannot be saved if you don't believe...

Then we get to the direct question "what must we do?" .... as Peter said, "repent and be baptized and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"

All of this is given to us, even though we don't deserve it... the chance to hear the gospel, and believe, and respond through a changing of direction in our lives, and the chance to go through the death of our old self, along with the resurrection to a new life in Christ through baptism... this is the grace of God.

Picking and choosing one thing to hang your salvation on, like a cafeteria plan, is not rightly dividing the word of God. It is all there, it just has to be read and understood. It is a process. When is a person saved? When they do all that is shown/taught us in the word. The gift of salvation is free... but it is a process.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
Oooohhhh I see. So YOU are the final arbiter on this delicate technical matter huh?
Actually the post references Paul's words, not mine.

Paul speaks to the truth concerning the NAME to be used in baptism: "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" 1 Cor. 1:13;
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
Oh I see. So water WAS absolutely essential (dunked daubed or sprinkled?). But now you have moved the goalposts and it is actually OBEDIENCE that is the essential work we must ourselves provide before God sees fit to redeem us.

Make up your mind bro....
Nothing has changed. Obedience has always been the point.
 

DJT_47

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2022
1,064
189
63
exactly

we should both repeat, teach and reflect on the TRUTH

maybe it will sink in that most people do not agree that water washes away sin

you are free to believe that but scripture does not teach that
It doesn't really matter at all whatost people think. It's what the scriptures say in plain English.
 

DJT_47

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2022
1,064
189
63
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," Matthew 28:19

"Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" Acts 2:38

"And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord." Acts 10:48

"When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Acts 19:5

Here are four passages, all saying something different. We better figure this out fast or we're all going straight to Hell.
As I posted for someone else, the only examples we have subsequent to the Lord's death is baptism in the name of Jesus Christ and not the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. It's Jesus that died. It's his body we're baptized into. It's his church which is his body.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,034
8,375
113
It doesn't really matter at all whatost people think. It's what the scriptures say in plain English.
Mystical incantations and processes do not save. They have never saved anybody. And the bogus cults and demonic religions depend upon them to keep their practitioners mollified.

Think about that.
 
P

Polar

Guest
It doesn't really matter at all whatost people think. It's what the scriptures say in plain English.
well you have said that

but most do not agree with your interpretation and see it more or less along the lines of an interruption;)

the most, would be those who have actually the ability to translate and those gifted by the Holy Spirit to teach
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,034
8,375
113
Nothing has changed. Obedience has always been the point.
What's next? Those who fail to participate in the Lords supper on some kind of a rigorous schedule are not saved either? Church attendance goes wonky and its over for you?

The fact is......both are remembrances of the underlying reality bro. And baptism is nothing more than a ritual typifying death of the old man. There is zero salvific value in dousing with water or maple syrup or anything else.