is bible the word of God

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mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
#61
Mohammed and John Smith had a lot in common. There is a common thread to those that start their own religion. I think it can be summed up by a quote from L. Ron Hubbard, the prolific science fiction writer, “Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wanted to make a million dollars, the best way to do it would be start his own religion.”

The test of a religion is how it’s founder lived and died, not what they said.
Yes true to some extent.Muhammad was a complete role model who lived according to the book he brought and taught.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
30,881
10,143
113
#62
You have written an intelligent reply but better you read Quran yourself and then will know better.
I have read the pre-Muhammadan sutras (in English translation) but never finished the rest. The idea of abrogation bothers me.

If you have read the Quran, what do you say it teaches, about how a person can be redeemed from judgment?
We all agree that the Lord of heaven and earth will come again and judge the whole world.
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
#63
Arabic inconsistencies in translation

A group went through the middle east and started to compare Korans, how they expressed different
phrases. Surprisingly they actually differed across different books.

Now this is not supposed to have happened. It is possible different writers are expressing local variations
of arabic in different regions, but the claim is simply there are no differences. Opppps.

If you have a culture that does not check or question statements, things like this go on without anyone
noticing, or even checking :)

So the uncorrupted faith is corrupting itself, ironic that .....
wrong
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
#64
That's not true.
The existing ancient manuscripts of the Bible are in far greater agreement than ancient copies of the Quran, and that is still true even though Christians don't go around burning all traces of disagreement so they can say there isn't any.

And Jesus IS the gospel; He wasn't 'given it'
Plz.don't insult Jesus by saying this.word of any dignified man remains same but we see many bibles contradicting within itself and with others.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
#67
You have written an intelligent reply but better you read Quran yourself and then will know better.
I have read the Koran and Haddith and debated with muslims.

Unfortunately the truth is very simple. The whole basis of Muhammed and his writings is whether
you accept he is speaking anything that makes sense.

A classic muslim statement is "you know I am right."
It has a typical failure, it is not supplying any new information other than the confidence of the speaker.
Truth has to be proven, as far as it can be.

The real point being made is you know I am enthusiastic about the subject, which is true, like any salesman,
it is often the salesman who sells the product not the product itself.

I know Jesus and His word. I suggest you begin to learn and listen to the way of love and the Lord of All.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
#69
above info is wrong.MUhammad was visited by Gabriel alone first time.visit englishtafsir.com to read quran yourslef
Here is a classic problem. Jibril visited Muhammed lots of times over 20 years+.
Some when people were present, some not. The real point is if you want "Gods word" to be delivered
through an invisible spirit who is only visible to one guy, that is your choice.

The law of Moses was given by God shown in a pillar of fire and a pillar of smoke.
He literally burnt people up from the entrance to the tent of meeting.

Now I would take that book a lot more seriously than one given through some odd trance encounter
with a "devout" follower of some pagan faith.
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
#70
I have read the pre-Muhammadan sutras (in English translation) but never finished the rest. The idea of abrogation bothers me.

If you have read the Quran, what do you say it teaches, about how a person can be redeemed from judgment?
We all agree that the Lord of heaven and earth will come again and judge the whole world.
Bro,don't beleive me read for yourself so at least you will be able to refute any Muslims claim with proofs and references. www.englishtafsir.com
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
#71
Arabic inconsistencies in translation

A group went through the middle east and started to compare Korans, how they expressed different
phrases. Surprisingly they actually differed across different books.

Now this is not supposed to have happened. It is possible different writers are expressing local variations
of arabic in different regions, but the claim is simply there are no differences. Opppps.

If you have a culture that does not check or question statements, things like this go on without anyone
noticing, or even checking :)

So the uncorrupted faith is corrupting itself, ironic that .....
Such an imp document you should read yourself www.englishtafsir.com
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
#72
Prophet Muhamamd was a prophet and role model and confirmed previous all prophets and was sent by God.
Marrying a six year old girl, saying rape can only be true if 4 male witnesses see it, killing a whole tribe
because one member murder one other person, is not a good example.
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
#73
Yes I caught on to that too.

I just assumed it was turning into a KJVO thread because usually the arguments for such a position are that the newer versions are full of errors/inaccuracies and that publishing them is merely a money-making scheme.
Islam is a religion,Muslims are those who follow it.so I am a Muslim that also means that I have to love and respect Jesus and I am proud to say I do more than you and christians.
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
#74
Yes I caught on to that too.

I just assumed it was turning into a KJVO thread because usually the arguments for such a position are that the newer versions are full of errors/inaccuracies and that publishing them is merely a money-making scheme.
Bro be educated and discuss and refute QUran with references and facts.Read QUran yourself www.englishtafsir.com
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
#75
You sidestepped the main point. The Jesus you say you respect and love ISN'T the same Jesus.
Is Jesus the ONLY begotten Son of God, and is He God Himself in the flesh? If not, then you are talking about a DIFFERENT Jesus than Christians know.
you can prove your point and prove me wrong by showing me where in bible Jesus himself said I am God or worship me?
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
#76
This is an interesting position to take.
The bible is not an obvious book, it is a record of Gods speaking and mans response.
The message it brings is the important thing, not the individual ways it is expressed.

And that message is God is love, holy and true, while man is lost, fallen, distorted and sinful.
There is no bridge over this divide except Jesus. Jesus can change us, our hearts, our direction.

Unfortunately the Quran is neither in any plain language, 20% is totally unintelligible. The rest
is part stories and instructions which are hidden and obscure. Mohammed did not believe in love
or Gods two greatest commands, Love God with your heart, strength and mind and love your
neighbour as yourself.

Rather Mohammed was a true legalist, and took the view that only legalism could earn merit before
God, and constructed a theology of earning merit to offset the evil one had done in ones life.

His claim that the bible is corrupt, failed in the fact he declared the revelation in scripture was true
but had been later corrupted. As can be shown the message has never been corrupted but rather
Muhammeds message is the corrupted version of Gods revelation.
Read Quran yourself so you can refute QUran with references and facts here is the link www.englishtafsir.com
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
#77
you can prove your point and prove me wrong by showing me where in bible Jesus himself said I am God or worship me?
This is the lamest argument

People worship Jesus as God, and when they declare He is the Messiah the son of God, He tells them to
be quiet because this reality causes too much antagonism.

33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."
Matt 14

9 Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.
Matt 28

17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
Matt 28

52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.
Luke 24

38 Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.
John 9

The problem with muslim propoganda is it just written by people who do not know scripture or Jesus.
There is always hope for people who come with an open heart to seek the Lord and listen to His word.
Jesus is Gods word of salvation to mankind.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
757
393
63
#78
Yes true to some extent.Muhammad was a complete role model who lived according to the book he brought and taught.
Read Quran yourself so you can refute QUran with references and facts here is the link www.englishtafsir.com
Does one need to see a counterfeit $100.00 bill to know what a real one looks like? You trust a man who said he knew what was true. We follow a man who said He was truth itself. Jesus said, no man can come unto the Father except through Him. Jesus contradicts what Mohammed said, I trust Jesus, not Mohammed.
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
#79
Does one need to see a counterfeit $100.00 bill to know what a real one looks like? You trust a man who said he knew what was true. We follow a man who said He was truth. Jesus said, no man can come unto the Father except through Him. Jesus contradicts what Mohammed said, I trust Jesus, not Mohammed.
You know how amazing it is that christian concept is totally opposite of Islamic concept.Islam teaches muslims to respect all prophets of God because God is only one so they came with same message i.e.worship one God and do good deeds.Now about the counterfeit bill,they run in market for years until they go through scrutiny that is what I said to you.put QUran to a regiorous scrutiny.If it is not God's word it will fail.that simple.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
9,413
5,811
113
#80
you can prove your point and prove me wrong by showing me where in bible Jesus himself said I am God or worship me?
Dispute EVERY one, become a Christian, or admit the Muslim Jesus ISN'T the Jesus of the Bible:

6. John 10:33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

7. John 5:18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.



Jesus is the Word.

8. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

9. John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.


Jesus Christ is the only way into Heaven.

10. 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

11. Romans 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”


I am He

12. John 8:57-58 The people said, “You aren’t even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham?” Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!”

13. John 8:22-24 This made the Jews ask, “Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, ‘Where I go, you cannot come’?” But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

14. John 13:18-19 “I am not referring to all of you; I know those I have chosen. But this is to fulfill this passage of Scripture: ‘He who shared my bread has turned against me.’ “I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.

First and last: There’s only one God

15. Isaiah 44:6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.

16. 1 Corinthians 8:6 Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

17. Revelation 2:8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.

18. Revelation 1:17-18 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last,and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.


Only God can be worshiped. Jesus was worshiped.

19. Matthew 2:1-2 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”

20. Matthew 28:8-9 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.


Prayed to

21. Acts 7:59-60 And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this,he fell asleep.


The Trinity

22. Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

23. 2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.


Examples

24. John 20:27-28 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

25. 2 Peter 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.


Bonus

Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.