Is Eternal Security Conditional or Unconditional?

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Jan 7, 2015
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To be fair (and in the biased spirit you presented the opposing side), this needs to be added to what you believe:

We preach that Salvation (forgiveness, righteousness, and New Life) is a free gift for all who will believe in Christ, maintained by Christ, our Perfect High Priest, and stewarded over by our Heavenly Father Who began a good work in us and is faithful and will bring it to completion until the Day of Christ. He will NOT give up on us even if (contrary to scripture) we live like the devil walking in the flesh our entire lives. Now that's good news!
Nothing like a bias opinion telling another what they really preach and truly believe in eh? LOL :)
 
Feb 24, 2015
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If salvation was not about choice, then Christ did not have to come and die. He could just wave His magic wand, make His people and take them to the new earth.

Now the real question you are missing, is you, the reader have real value and real power. Jesus is saying He has made you worthy to choose, not just respond. He is saying you are a brother and sister of God, not just servants but a friend.

Now we are so screwed up, so lost, we doubt and hate ourselves. One important lesson is to love ourselves as Christ loves us. When we have begun to really understand and value ourselves we can begin to love others, because they are just like us, lost, confused, dispossed, empty, self condemning, never good enough.

It is interesting that those who claim they see Gods grace are constantly talking about how big a failure they constantly are. I hear this in church as well. This God people say they know so well, must be a very hard task master, and love must be so hard to give. But I see forgiveness, love, understanding, bending down and lifting up those in need.

The two statements that will come to mind, is be perfect as you heavenly Father is perfect, and looking lustfully at another.
Both of these things take time, but the first is about loving your enemy, and the other about openly desiring another inappropriately. I wonder if people find this so hard, do they actually know what they are, and what love is, both sexually and one to one. This is not rocket science.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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The son does remain forever in the house.


John 8:35-36 (NASB)
[SUP]35 [/SUP] "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.

[SUP]36 [/SUP] "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

Once we are in Christ - we become sons/daughters of God.

Galatians 3:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

[SUP]7 [/SUP] Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.


1 John 3:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I encourage us to start to believe in the gospel of the grace of Christ. It is "good news".

If we see ourselves as children of God we will walk as children of our Father and our true nature in our new creation will transform our minds to reflect that nature outwardly in our behavior powered by the Spirit of God inside of us.
Just because one professes themselves to be a son does not mean they truly are. A great way to know a phony from the true is if they are currently living in sin, and are therefore servants of sin, and not a servant of righteousness in Christ.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Just because one professes themselves to be a son does not mean they truly are. A great way to know a phony from the true is if they are currently living in sin, and are therefore servants of sin, and not a servant of righteousness in Christ.
I see where things are getting a little mixed-up. There are those that profess they are sons but they are not as you say. Paul says that we can yield the members of our body onto sin or unto righteousness - guess this is where learning about the grace of Christ comes in handy as it teaches us how to live godly.

So, we have sin in our body now which is why we have the circumcision of the flesh and inner man in Christ by the Holy Spirit where we are sealed unto the day of redemption when we get out new bodies.

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Let's look at this sin business for a bit. Slander is just as much a sin as fornication. ( Gal. 5 )

So, let's say someone has been slandering other people for a year or for however long. All of a sudden they die...does this one that was slandering people now not go to heaven?...in your thinking they would go to hell?

Or what about gluttony which is a sin - what if someone has a battle with overeating all the time and they die - do they go to hell because they were not able to overcome this?

These 2 scenarios above would be people "living in the flesh" and as you call being a servant to sin ( even though they are free in Christ but don't know it yet and haven't gown up in the Lord enough spiritually to overcome them ).

These 2 groups of people in your theology would not be children of God and thus go to hell..is that right?
 
Jan 7, 2015
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I see where things are getting a little mixed-up. There are those that profess they are sons but they are not as you say. Paul says that we can yield the members of our body onto sin or unto righteousness - guess this is where learning about the grace of Christ comes in handy as it teaches us how to live godly.

So, we have sin in our body now which is why we have the circumcision of the flesh and inner man in Christ by the Holy Spirit where we are sealed unto the day of redemption when we get out new bodies.

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Let's look at this sin business for a bit. Slander is just as much a sin as fornication. ( Gal. 5 )

So, let's say someone has been slandering other people for a year or for however long. All of a sudden they die...does this one that was slandering people now not go to heaven?...in your thinking they would go to hell?

Or what about gluttony which is a sin - what if someone has a battle with overeating all the time and they die - do they go to hell because they were not able to overcome this?

These 2 scenarios above would be people "living in the flesh" and as you call being a servant to sin ( even though they are free in Christ but don't know it yet and haven't gown up in the Lord enough spiritually to overcome them ).

These 2 groups of people in your theology would not be children of God and thus go to hell..is that right?
You cannot abide in sin and also abide in Christ at the same time, for in Him is no sin. So if one is living in ongoing sin then it is safe to say they were either never really born again and made a new man in Christ, and freed from the bondage of sin. Or they have back slid and need to repent and turn back to Christ, or even worse they have fallen away from the faith completely. If they do not repent and turn back from their sins, then they will die in their sins.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
To be fair (and in the biased spirit you presented the opposing side), this needs to be added to what you believe:

We preach that Salvation (forgiveness, righteousness, and New Life) is a free gift for all who will believe in Christ, maintained by Christ, our Perfect High Priest, and stewarded over by our Heavenly Father Who began a good work in us and is faithful and will bring it to completion until the Day of Christ. He will NOT give up on us even if (contrary to scripture) we live like the devil walking in the flesh our entire lives. Now that's good news!

On report for slander of another person. I am personally getting sick of you slandering people!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
And this is the main error in the false doctrine you guys follow, you said .....

You guys believe wilful ongoing sin for a "believer" does not effect your eternal security.
do you need reported too for your slander, we do not believe a believer in god can do this. so you are bearing false witness, keep it up and you can join your brother on report list for slandering others.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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12 I am writing to you, little children,
because your sins are forgiven for his name's sake.1 John 2 lol
 
Sep 4, 2012
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If no one says "What?..are you saying people can just go and sin all we want now because of grace?" ..if no one says that - then you are not preaching the gospel of the grace of Christ.

No one is saying to go out and sin all you want now because of grace but people should be accusing you of saying that if you are really preaching the same gospel that Paul preached. He was continuously slandered with this same accusation. In 4x times alone in Romans Paul had to come against those that were accusing Paul of being antinomian.

The grace of God teaches us how to live godly in this present world as Titus 2:11-12.

Sin is stupid and against our new nature in Christ which is created in righteousness and holiness. Sin is deceitful and will destroy us on this earth as well as those we love and ruins our witness for the Lord. But sin does not take away our eternal life in Christ. Our spirit is safe in Christ because we are in Him and it is His finished work that brings eternal salvation to us.

Make no mistake about it..the gospel of the grace of Christ is scandalous.

“Anything goes” antinomianism could be also expressed as libertine antinomianism if one is speaking of the variety that says the Christian cannot really sin regardless of what they do. This was common among some of the Gnostics.

The kind of Antinomianism we see more of in our day (beginning with the “Free Grace” movement of Zane Hodges et al. and morphing just a bit in the newer form as seen in teachers such as Joseph Prince) is essentially Sandemanian Antinomianism (a heresy associated with an eighteenth century movement) rather than libertine Antinomianism.

Sandemanianism did not directly say that anything goes in the sense that anything was approved of but just said that everyone was OK who gave mental assent to the gospel. Thus, those who made a profession could live as they pleased even though the leaders did not necessarily endorse this behavior. It is still “anything goes” as regards salvation even if the teachers and leaders profess not to endorse sin.

Joseph Prince has embraced this by espousing unconditional security without the need for the perseverance of the saints. This semi-Calvinist view is an unorthodox one that gives comfort to those who have never evidenced a changed life (Prince even asserts that repentance does not involve a turning from sin). I have spoken to a homosexual follower of Prince who acknowledged what the Bible said about his lifestyle. He was not concerned, however, because he was sure God saw it as no big deal in spite of what the Bible said.

One of the chief characteristics of the new Antinomianism as it has developed in the 21st century is that it insists that we must never speak of do’s and don’ts and can never use words such as “should” or “ought.” All of life must be subjective spontaneity and those who offer any word of exhortation (such as those found in the NT) are presenting a “legalistic ministration of death.”


Relativism and Antinomianism: It's Mostly About Sex | Apologetics Index
 
Nov 22, 2015
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You cannot abide in sin and also abide in Christ at the same time, for in Him is no sin. So if one is living in ongoing sin then it is safe to say they were either never really born again and made a new man in Christ, and freed from the bondage of sin. Or they have back slid and need to repent and turn back to Christ, or even worse they have fallen away from the faith completely. If they do not repent and turn back from their sins, then they will die in their sins.

We don't abide in sin because we are in Christ - our inner man is created in righteousness and holiness and as John says in 1 John 3:9 and 5:18 - the one born of God cannot sin - not once nor a million times. It is sealed by the Holy spirit from the flesh. All sin is done in the flesh.


So, the people in the scenarios that are slandering people and that are over eating all the time are going to hell with your theology then. So, in other words those sins are greater then the grace and blood of Jesus that bought them.

I can't swallow that theology as it violates the clear word that we are in Christ as Paul says 174x times in his epistles. It also violates all the words that Jesus said about believing in Him people have eternal life but according to your theory after every scripture that says people in Christ have eternal life - it should have a "but" after it.

I'm going to stick with the gospel of the grace of Christ because as they say in the south "that dog won't hunt".

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth,
the gospel of your salvationhaving also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Just because one professes themselves to be a son does not mean they truly are. A great way to know a phony from the true is if they are currently living in sin, and are therefore servants of sin, and not a servant of righteousness in Christ.
There seems to be a denial by some that sons can be disinherited.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth

And this is the main error in the false doctrine you guys follow, you said .....

You guys believe wilful ongoing sin for a "believer" does not effect your eternal security.

I actually do believe that wilful sin will affect eternal security. If people wilfully reject the sacrifice of Jesus for sin and try to obtain their own righteousness by doing "good works" - these will die in their sin and face the Lord. Rejecting Christ is a willful sin.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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You cannot abide in sin and also abide in Christ at the same time, for in Him is no sin. So if one is living in ongoing sin then it is safe to say they were either never really born again and made a new man in Christ, and freed from the bondage of sin. Or they have back slid and need to repent and turn back to Christ, or even worse they have fallen away from the faith completely. If they do not repent and turn back from their sins, then they will die in their sins.
You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace Galatians 5


.21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.Galatians 2


2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.Romans 8

returning to a law, that never saved you. is pointless. or looking at a law you were never given. for justification, of being saved etc (saviour)
 
Sep 4, 2012
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I actually do believe that wilful sin will affect eternal security. If people wilfully reject the sacrifice of Jesus for sin and try to obtain their own righteousness by doing "good works" - these will die in their sin and face the Lord. Rejecting Christ is a willful sin.[/SIZE]
Are you talking about believers, unbelievers, or both?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth

And this is the main error in the false doctrine you guys follow, you said .....

You guys believe wilful ongoing sin for a "believer" does not effect your eternal security.

I actually do believe that wilful sin will affect eternal security. If people wilfully reject the sacrifice of Jesus for sin and try to obtain their own righteousness by doing "good works" - these will die in their sin and face the Lord. Rejecting Christ is a willful sin.
Amen bro. Don;t let them get to you. Just expose when they slander you with lies about your belief, they are tryin gto goat you, don;t fall. at least two of them have been hear long enough to know they are slandering you
 
Nov 22, 2015
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“Anything goes” antinomianism could be also expressed as libertine antinomianism if one is speaking of the variety that says the Christian cannot really sin regardless of what they do. This was common among some of the Gnostics.
(snip)

This video below should help to clear up the mis-percepetions of this myth about antinomian. It is a common thing as Paul himself was accused of the very same thing - 4x times in Romans alone.

Here is an article that addresses that myth for anyone interested.

https://escapetoreality.org/2014/09/09/hyper-grace-lawlessness/


[video=vimeo;11804054]https://vimeo.com/11804054[/video]
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth

And this is the main error in the false doctrine you guys follow, you said .....

You guys believe wilful ongoing sin for a "believer" does not effect your eternal security.

I actually do believe that wilful sin will affect eternal security. If people wilfully reject the sacrifice of Jesus for sin and try to obtain their own righteousness by doing "good works" - these will die in their sin and face the Lord. Rejecting Christ is a willful sin.
Awesome reply brother! They aint lettin me rep you!
 
Jan 27, 2013
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is this a universal verse, or simply wisdom spoken

Judging Others
37 "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven.Luke 6
 
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