Is Eternal Security Conditional or Unconditional?
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J
Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Luk_13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk_13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Act_26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Mat_23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat_5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat_5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat_5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mat_11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Mat_18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Mat_23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mar_9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar_9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar_9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Luk_10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
Luk_12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Luk_13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk_13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Act_26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
Mat_23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat_5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat_5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat_5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mat_11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Mat_18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Mat_23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mar_9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar_9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar_9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Luk_10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
Luk_12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
I know your not ashamed of His words, and just remember.....
Luke 6:22
Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
John 7:7
The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.
John 15:18
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
Luke 6:22
Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
John 7:7
The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.
John 15:18
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
LOL ETERNAL security MUST be unconditional.
'All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent
Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day,' (John 6.37-39)
But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being accounted as righteous by His grace FREELY through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith by His blood (Rom 3,23-25).
'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come behind in no gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will also confirm you unto the end, that you might be unreproveable in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (1 Corinth 1.6-8). (and this the corinthian church!)
'By grace you are saved, through faith, and that (gracious act) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of doings, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Eph 2.8-10).
'Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).
'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but now has been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel (2 Tim 1.9).
I am not ashamed, for I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that Day (2 Tim 1.12).
But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and His love towards man appeared, not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Christ Jesus our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3.4-7).
Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His Counsel, interposed with an oath, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we may have a strong encouragement who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and entering into that within the veil, whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek (Heb 7.7-20).
Wherefore He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7.25).
He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified (Heb 10.14)
'All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent
Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day,' (John 6.37-39)
But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being accounted as righteous by His grace FREELY through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith by His blood (Rom 3,23-25).
'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come behind in no gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will also confirm you unto the end, that you might be unreproveable in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (1 Corinth 1.6-8). (and this the corinthian church!)
'By grace you are saved, through faith, and that (gracious act) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of doings, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Eph 2.8-10).
'Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).
'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but now has been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel (2 Tim 1.9).
I am not ashamed, for I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that Day (2 Tim 1.12).
But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and His love towards man appeared, not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Christ Jesus our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3.4-7).
Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His Counsel, interposed with an oath, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we may have a strong encouragement who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and entering into that within the veil, whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek (Heb 7.7-20).
Wherefore He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7.25).
He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified (Heb 10.14)
J
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev_2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev_2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Rev_2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Rev_2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Rev_3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Rev_3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Rev_2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev_2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Rev_2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Rev_2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Rev_3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Rev_3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Don't forget that verse 12 above is talking about temptation as can be seen in the next verse. This is not talking about losing eternal salvation as that is secure in Christ.
1 Corinthians 10:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.
Great scriptures showing how we need to believe in all things to do with our salvation and what Jesus bought for us with His blood. We can be destroyed here on this earth if we do not believe in the promises of God for us! Believe in the finished work of Christ and walk in the knowledge that He is faithful and we have a great salvation in Him alone!
Israel in the wilderness were all destroyed except for Caleb and Joshua because the believed the word of the Lord.
Those are great scriptures - thanks for posting them! They remind us to believe in all that the Lord has already done for us in His completed work.
1 Corinthians 10:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.
Great scriptures showing how we need to believe in all things to do with our salvation and what Jesus bought for us with His blood. We can be destroyed here on this earth if we do not believe in the promises of God for us! Believe in the finished work of Christ and walk in the knowledge that He is faithful and we have a great salvation in Him alone!
Israel in the wilderness were all destroyed except for Caleb and Joshua because the believed the word of the Lord.
Those are great scriptures - thanks for posting them! They remind us to believe in all that the Lord has already done for us in His completed work.
To be understood correctly one must recognize that Hebrews was written to believers. Please read the scripture...
Hebrews 10:18-25
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And having an high priest over the house of God;
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/mcgee_j_vernon/Hbr/Hebrews.cfm
Hebrews 10:18-25
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And having an high priest over the house of God;
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/mcgee_j_vernon/Hbr/Hebrews.cfm
If a Pastor of a church (especially a very large congregation) greets the congregation on Sunday morning with, "good morning brothers and sisters in Christ" and the sermon is directed at believers does that mean that everyone in the congregation that Sunday morning MUST all be genuine believers?
I agree with this...
It would be like Richard Nixon saying at a speech - "My fellow Americans" ( meanwhile there are 500,000 illegal aliens in their midst )
Plus when Jewish people back in the NT talked to each other - they called them brethren whether they were believers or not. Acts is full of examples of them doing that. Peter, Paul and James all did it. I believe Hebrews and any other Jewish directed epistles could have this very thing in mind too.
It would be like Richard Nixon saying at a speech - "My fellow Americans" ( meanwhile there are 500,000 illegal aliens in their midst )
Plus when Jewish people back in the NT talked to each other - they called them brethren whether they were believers or not. Acts is full of examples of them doing that. Peter, Paul and James all did it. I believe Hebrews and any other Jewish directed epistles could have this very thing in mind too.
S
Guys, the "willful sin" was not the rejection of Christ, it was the offering of sacrifices. These are believing Jews that were being drawn back into Judaism and were offering sacrifices instead of trusting in the ONE sacrifice made by Jesus. Before you brush this off just like you did before, go back and read the whole chapter with this thought in mind and see if it doesn't make sense to you. It's important to see this truth because it is why people can't grow in Christ. People today are STILL trying to offer their own sacrifices to God. Some to be saved, some to stay saved. Some are saved, some are not, God only knows. But the fact that people still try to gain favor with God after having already been saved is why many never move on to the meat of the Word, but stay on milk and never mature.
I probably wouldnt have seen it that way, its just gathered scripture (well, on the second post in particular) but on the first post is where I wanted to show that progression I was seeing in Jesus words concerning the servants of sin and the Son making them free and the wording elsewhere. But then what typically happens if someone is already going off on someone else speaking contrary to Jesus words in any of that it will often be met with some animosity. You will naturally be targeted simply sharing what is written while condemning no one in your post. It would be stupid to call Jesus a liar or Paul speaking accord concerning the same. Doing that happens at all forums, its pretty much a tactic (to shut down the poster) and deflect but I try not to say anything and let the messenger/messenegers. The second one was more a list, but I am going to change that and begin working on it to better present it.
And whether it was two or three, (depends really) as I brought in a post off another thread showing I touched down on this before and how I regarded it (and specifically as a tactic). I dont know who identifys as "the we" here and/or the "they's", that can be gathered by looking back over the thread, its really a non issue. But you can see, the scripture (on the first post as posted ) posters often speak their own words at them (or over the scripture). Jesus could say one thing and what Jesus says could be cast to the ground. Although the last time I posted the first batch it was well received, depends on who is on the thread you post it on I believe.
Im not going to battle with others own rejection of it, its not here nor there with me, I do believe its better to add to the thread (and go with hands off) leave it there to be ripped on, thats fine by me. You just put it out there, even if the birds of the air take it that is none of my business really, but if just one person receives it and gets something out of it thats great though. Is all good. Peace
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