Is eternal torment in hell fire Biblical

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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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No
No eternal torture.
No fire that will burn people forever.
God is love.
You are correct TMS, God is love. However, He is also a God of righteousness and justice. All sin has been committed against Him and Him alone. Every thing that you mentioned above is stated in scripture, eternal punishment, everlasting fire, no rest day or night, etc. You have denied exactly everything that is written in the word of God regarding those who die in their sins. God's grace and His mercy are for the living and cease for those who die in their sins, for their record is sealed.

All sin must be accounted for, for all who receive Christ He was held accountable for their sins. For those who reject Him and die in their sins, they will be held accountable, as revealed at the great white throne judgment described in Rev.20:11-15.

No eternal torture.
"Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. "

"And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

"And a third angel followed them, calling out in loud a voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever. Day and night there will be no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

In order to experience punishment, one must be existing. One cannot experience "eternal punishment" if one is annihilated. It is interesting that the exact words that you used above "no eternal torture, no fire that will burn people forever" is exactly the words used in scripture to describe said torment and punishment. The term eternal fire focuses on the length of time for those who will be experiencing it.

No fire that will burn people forever.
"And the rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham from afar, with Lazarus by his side. So he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue. For I am in agony in this fire.’

The devil whats us to think that the soul will not surely die. Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

I want to do a study on this subject but it would require several paragraphs. i'll just sum it up. The dead know nothing and the day of punishment is in the future.
second death... If people do not die, than it can not be called the second death. If people are raised and never die again it isn't a second death.
Rev_2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The problem with your conclusion above, is that you do not understand the meaning of death. Both life and death are states of conscious existence, which is based on the individuals state of being with God:

Eternal life = conscious, on-going existence in the presence of God and His kingdom

Death = Conscious, on-going existence in separation from God in the lake of fire.

It is because of your lack of taking into account all scripture pertaining to the issue of death that you err. Consider the following:

"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

When Jesus will have returned to the earth to end the age, the beast and the false prophet will have been thrown into the lake of fire. A thousand years later, Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire and it states that, "they will be tormented day and night forever and ever" which would demonstrate that the beast and the false prophet were not burnt up but will have been in the lake of fire for that entire time and their torment in the lake of fire will continue on after Satan is thrown in. This is the same punishment that will befall those who follow Satan, which is what everyone who rejects Christ is doing. If one is not following Christ, then he is following Satan and will suffer the same fate in the lake of fire of eternal torment.

Also by your false teaching of this, you are spreading the lies of Satan, for in these last days he is attacking every truth of God's word and you are aiding in it. By the way, Eccl.9:5 does not say what you think it says. It does not support your claim. You are doing exactly what everyone else does by just repeating what you have heard or read on some web site.
 

MichaelOwen

Senior Member
Nov 6, 2017
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I came across this thread, and I just thought I would drop my hat in the ring, give my two cents per say. This is a topic most churches are starting not to teach anymore, and it needs to be taught, whether it makes congregations uncomfortable or not, because Jesus taught this to the multitudes, that Hell is a real place, and it will be your home if you do not believe and accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior.

Hell was not made for us, it was made for Satan and his followers, those who rebelled from God. God is love, but God is also a God of wrath, and a just God, righteous in all likeliness and manner, and his judgment is pure and just. I believe at the core of God's heart, it hurts him when another person rejects Christ and ends up in eternal separation from him, but he is still God, and his judgment is pure.

Whenever a person tells another person to go to Hell, they really have NO idea what they are saying and how serious that is to say that. The bible gives us a very clear picture on what Hell is like, and Jesus gave us a very clear picture of Hell.

Please don't let your pride drag you to this awful place if you don't know Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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M...,

If your summary does not get folks attention it is because they have allowed ....the new age religion teachings from the rebellious 1960's to dominate them...to their detriment...I might add.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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timed out...

Your reaction is dramatic;....Re; worm...........why wouldn't you have the same concern about the fire that never dies out? Both are symbols of ...forever.
Fire purifies the believer but consumes(up in smoke) those in whom do not have a new spirit and new heart as a soul that will be raised on the last day

Those who have not been given a new eternal born again spirit, when their temporal corrupted spirit dies it returns to the father just as in the same twinkling of the eye the temporal body of flesh return to the dust.

They will not be raised to new spirit life forever and ever having suffered as living hell when they were alive. The first death.

God is a God of mercy. He does not cause one to suffer after they have no means .

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Ecclesiastes 12:7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also .James 2:26

No Zombies being judged. That appears to be a Catholic idea .They raise dead bones and pronounce judgment on them or have dead bones working in purgatory. Necromancy is their foundation.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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Fire purifies the believer but consumes(up in smoke) those in whom do not have a new spirit and new heart as a soul that will be raised on the last day

Those who have not been given a new eternal born again spirit, when their temporal corrupted spirit dies it returns to the father just as in the same twinkling of the eye the temporal body of flesh return to the dust.

They will not be raised to new spirit life forever and ever having suffered as living hell when they were alive. The first death.

God is a God of mercy. He does not cause one to suffer after they have no means .

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Ecclesiastes 12:7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also .James 2:26

No Zombies being judged. That appears to be a Catholic idea .They raise dead bones and pronounce judgment on them or have dead bones working in purgatory. Necromancy is their foundation.
g...,
Non of that posting addresses the question I raised. I am not suggesting you are spinning...on purpose.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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g...,
Non of that posting addresses the question I raised. I am not suggesting you are spinning...on purpose.
We who are living are suffering the first death called, hell . If a person does not receive a new born again spirit then when their corrupted spirit they were born with runs out of temporal time they will experience the second death .Their temporal spirit returns to the father who gave it and their dead bodies return to the dust.

Only those who have ben given a new spirit and a new heart that God makes soft will rise on the last day and receive their new incorruptible bodies. God is a God of mercy .He does not freely give mercy and grace to one with no cost on their part and to another they must suffer for the sins of others. Christ paid that wage in full according to his living suffering called hell.

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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We who are living are suffering the first death called, hell . If a person does not receive a new born again spirit then when their corrupted spirit they were born with runs out of temporal time they will experience the second death .Their temporal spirit returns to the father who gave it and their dead bodies return to the dust.

Only those who have ben given a new spirit and a new heart that God makes soft will rise on the last day and receive their new incorruptible bodies. God is a God of mercy .He does not freely give mercy and grace to one with no cost on their part and to another they must suffer for the sins of others. Christ paid that wage in full according to his living suffering called hell.

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Where does eternal torment in hell fire fit into this summary, you say the the spirit of the unsaved goes back to God and their bodies to dust. Where's the punishment?
 

carl11

Senior Member
Oct 20, 2017
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Where does eternal torment in hell fire fit into this summary, you say the the spirit of the unsaved goes back to God and their bodies to dust. Where's the punishment?
But you see this is what everybody wants justice and we want it our way. We want to decide for God who should get punished and who should not and how.
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
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Does the Bible give us a clear picture of hell.

There are so many conflicting views on what hell is and what's it's like and who goes there.

My brother recently committed suicide and I'm so afraid that he's in hell now. He professed to be a believer in Christ, but I don't even know if it's possible for a true believer to take their own life.

In any case, hell is the most horrible thing one can imagine. It's rare to hear a sermon on hell, so it's one of those subjects nobody likes to talk about.

I would really like to know the truth about hell, are there people in it now, if so are they going to continue to burn forever, do all of it's inhabitants suffer the same punishment or level of pain, do the dead go to heaven or hell as soon as they die or do they have to wait for judgement day and is it possible for anyone who has taken their own life to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

I'm absolutely devastated by the loss of my brother whom I loved dearly and I'm struggling with the thought that he might be suffering as we speak. Is it worth praying for him now, or is it too late to pray for him.
Hell is not created yet. It will be created when God is ready to cast satan, demons, and all those who continue to live in sin, into it.

Hell is the absence of God, the absence of Love. Satan is not cast into Hell, but roams this planet freely. satan is not bound yet, but is free to move as he sees fit, save he can't leave the confines of this system. Right now on this planet, the wheat and the tares are present together. Love and hate are present together. Good and Evil are present together right now. But not so at the very end, when the Great White Throne Judgment will take place. A time that hell will be created and all those who obey satan will be cast in with satan himself.

There is ONLY one day that will determine who is going to be taken to Heaven and who is not going to be taken to Heaven, and that Day has not happened yet. So there is hope even now for your brother, because that day has not yet happened. Do not be concerned about those who have died in the past, but instead be concerned about how your living this life that you have today. Get right with God NOW, you are not promised tomorrow.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Where does eternal torment in hell fire fit into this summary, you say the the spirit of the unsaved goes back to God and their bodies to dust. Where's the punishment?
Hell is a living punishment that one endures while they are still be breathing, all the days they live in a body of death, the first death .

If a person has been given a new spirit that will never die they will be raised on the last day and receive the goal of their new faith a incorruptible body.

The second death of the temporal corrupted spirit returns to the father of spirits and the lifeless spiritless body returns to the dust.

God is a God of mercy .He does not bestow his grace on one and the other is tortured forever and ever.

The suffering of this life are related to the belly of the whale. or three days in the heart of the earth when used with Christ

Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly,And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.Jonas2 1-2

Not dead but unto death the suffering before one dies. Jesus began the work of suffering in the garden on Thursday .

Mark 14:34 And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.

In both cases they were heard of God and deliverd, not reincarnated.

Jonas is used as a picture of Christ's suffering in respect to the last sign

But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:Matthew 12:39

The word hell used 54 times. It is never used to torturing dead bones.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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But you see this is what everybody wants justice and we want it our way. We want to decide for God who should get punished and who should not and how.
I have been looking at that principle for some time now.

We know that Satan is the murder from the beginning who works in the affairs of men . We also I beleive are given the understanding that the arrows of the evil one are directed towards the Son of man seeing the devil has no faith.... Its murder all the humans in a hope of murdering the Messiah .

In Genesis, Cain after hearing what Abel said verifying what God had said to Cain .Cain inspired by the devil murdered the misperceived competition as walking sight (out of sight out of mind)

And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.Genesis 4:8-10

Cain influenced by the god of this world as the father of lies said..... he knew not what happened .

It was then that God set up for those cursed, suffering the living pangs of hell the tribulations of this world and not death instantly.

Cain responded by it was to great of a punishment to bear. One that only Christ could bear. In that punishment he also cursed the ground as in corrupting the whole creation which moans in expectation of the sons of God in the new heavens and earth .

And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Genesis 4:11-13

Cain complained of the punishment as a restless wanderer, one who did not receive any rest in knowing God (the sabbath rest) like His brother Abel. And replied in hope they will kill him and the sentence will not be carried out .But God who is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul desires would not have it

Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.Genesis
4:11-13

I would think we need prison reform to make the living suffering a actual suffering and not just exchanging area codes. and a library to look for loop holes.
 

Slayer

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Jul 23, 2018
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But you see this is what everybody wants justice and we want it our way. We want to decide for God who should get punished and who should not and how.
Of' course we want to see justice being served, what's wrong with that. We pay money to watch cop shows where they get the bad guy and beat him up, everyone applauds when they finnaly catch the bad guy and land some good punches to his head.

Even us sinners like to see justice, imagine how much more a Holy God wants it.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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Hell is a living punishment that one endures while they are still be breathing, all the days they live in a body of death, the first death .

If a person has been given a new spirit that will never die they will be raised on the last day and receive the goal of their new faith a incorruptible body.

The second death of the temporal corrupted spirit returns to the father of spirits and the lifeless spiritless body returns to the dust.

God is a God of mercy .He does not bestow his grace on one and the other is tortured forever and ever.

The suffering of this life are related to the belly of the whale. or three days in the heart of the earth when used with Christ

Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly,And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.Jonas2 1-2

Not dead but unto death the suffering before one dies. Jesus began the work of suffering in the garden on Thursday .

Mark 14:34 And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.

In both cases they were heard of God and deliverd, not reincarnated.

Jonas is used as a picture of Christ's suffering in respect to the last sign

But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:Matthew 12:39

The word hell used 54 times. It is never used to torturing dead bones.
I must dismiss your opinion as a false private interpretation and perversion of what the scriptures teach us about hell. Hell is a place of eternal torment in fervent melting heat, the Bible is very clear.
It doesn't leave any room to add private wishful thinking, it's horrible, beyond imagination and description. It's worse than anyone could describe, so we should be warning everyone we meet and all of our friends and family.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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I must dismiss your opinion as a false private interpretation and perversion of what the scriptures teach us about hell. Hell is a place of eternal torment in fervent melting heat, the Bible is very clear.
It doesn't leave any room to add private wishful thinking, it's horrible, beyond imagination and description. It's worse than anyone could describe, so we should be warning everyone we meet and all of our friends and family.
S...,
So correct!
Yet, new age religion folks from the 60's, et al., miss lead many by trying to..... make it light....( by PC ), that of G-d's true meaning and intent.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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It is my determination after much study, meditation, and self-knowledge that we are not wise in the fields of justice and things such as revenge.

Thinking on it much, I found tht I am just too ignorant of the wisdom of God to mete out any form of vengeance or justice. Of course I want justice, and I now understand just why vengeance is our Father's and not ours.

Actually there are times when I suspect God's vengeance is no revenge at all rather allowing his enemies to get what they vainly strive for, that would be punishment enough while witnessing us, God's children, with Him in glory for all eternity.

Also,k thhis thinking, so fundamental, explains fully to me for my own satisfaction why we are to love all, even our enemies, and always show the mercy we would receive, but most already understand this..

Our Father is good all of the time, and I would love to be like He, and you too.........All blessings in Jesus Christ.....
 

carl11

Senior Member
Oct 20, 2017
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Of' course we want to see justice being served, what's wrong with that. We pay money to watch cop shows where they get the bad guy and beat him up, everyone applauds when they finnaly catch the bad guy and land some good punches to his head.

Even us sinners like to see justice, imagine how much more a Holy God wants it.
The point is that we do not see eternal life for those who have never became saved. We have apparent verses that say other wise and torment but that is all they are apparent.
 

Slayer

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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The point is that we do not see eternal life for those who have never became saved. We have apparent verses that say other wise and torment but that is all they are apparent.
Please list those verses which you think say otherwise, we have plenty of experts here ready to explain what their intended context is.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I must dismiss your opinion as a false private interpretation and perversion of what the scriptures teach us about hell. Hell is a place of eternal torment in fervent melting heat, the Bible is very clear.
It doesn't leave any room to add private wishful thinking, it's horrible, beyond imagination and description. It's worse than anyone could describe, so we should be warning everyone we meet and all of our friends and family.
The description seems clear. Hell is a living suffering

And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice. Jonas 2:2

Its one of those doctrines that I have revisited .

For years it has troubled that a God of Love and mercy somehow was not subject to his own law?

Why would God have mercy on some and no kind of mercy on others?

James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Scripture informs us that hell is a living work of suffering. It is applied to Jonas and the Son of Man .

Being born into a body of death, all mankind suffers in one way or another . But not all receive the rest that we find in Christ alone who suufered in our ste

The idea of dead men's bones with no spirit life suffering forever, seem foreign to the scriptures .

When natural man separated from God dies his temporal flesh returns to the lifeless spiritless dust it was taken from. His temporal spirits return to the father of all spirits

Psalm 104:29Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

Ecclesiastes 12:7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and "the spirit" shall return unto God who gave it.

Dead bones that have not spirit life cannot work according to faith to suffer as a work of faith.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, "so faith" without works is dead also.James 2:26

God assigned a living suffering as hell to Cain described as a punishment that he could not bear.One that only Christ did. Christ suffered for Abel as the rest he has from his own works.

it would seem the eclectic chair was not his idea of suffering the pangs of hell .
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Only our Hevenly Father knows the hearts of man. He has declared that He will justify the ungodly, and this would include all of us who believe Jesus Christ but who in this age is authorized to say He may be referring to others, perhaps many others?

Many pagans have the truth on their hearts with their own consciences excusing and excusing them as they act.........this , from Paul's writing, alone is enough to tell me not to judge anyone, not to condemnation that is.

God's ways are not our ways, and His thoughts are not our thoughts, and I am happy to thank Him for this and for His teaching us daily.

Yes, Jesus Christ is our Salvation, but many may know Him without actually knowing His name. Only our Father knows, not us. All blessings in Jesus Christ, and let us refrain from teaching others to judge others in this manner.
 

carl11

Senior Member
Oct 20, 2017
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Please list those verses which you think say otherwise, we have plenty of experts here ready to explain what their intended context is.
Jn 5:25-29, Dan. 12:2