Is faith WITHOUT works dead to GOD or Is faith WITHOUT works dead to man?
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It is hard to say for certainty something that did not happen, but nevertheless, one could say that when God commanded him to do that if he then refused or in some way attempted to cheat God's command (like King Saul for example) that would prove he did not have faith in God by his work of hypothetical disobedience.
Perhaps in this line of thinking use King Zedekiah as an example. Jeremiah told Zedekiah that if he would surrender himself to the King of Babylon that he would be spared and so would Jerusalem. Zedekiah nevertheless attempted to escape rather than surrender himself as the Lord commanded, and therefore this work proved he did not have faith in God, and so he was captured near Jericho and taken up to the King of Babylon whom slew all of his sons before his eyes, gouged his eyes out, burned Jerusalem to the ground, and led him away in chains.
Perhaps in this line of thinking use King Zedekiah as an example. Jeremiah told Zedekiah that if he would surrender himself to the King of Babylon that he would be spared and so would Jerusalem. Zedekiah nevertheless attempted to escape rather than surrender himself as the Lord commanded, and therefore this work proved he did not have faith in God, and so he was captured near Jericho and taken up to the King of Babylon whom slew all of his sons before his eyes, gouged his eyes out, burned Jerusalem to the ground, and led him away in chains.
Before he joined in belittling Jesus. Now he declares Him innocent. Something transpired to produce that change.
Everywhere you have faith it will be accompanied by an action.
Abraham believed God so...he packed His bags and raised the knife.
Noah believed what God said about the flood so...he got out his saw.
What we believe leads to what we do. That's why it is so important that we believe correctly.
Everywhere you have faith it will be accompanied by an action.
Abraham believed God so...he packed His bags and raised the knife.
Noah believed what God said about the flood so...he got out his saw.
What we believe leads to what we do. That's why it is so important that we believe correctly.
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A person has to have faith in God to be saved .
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
We are saved by grace through the operation of faith hearing and believing the word of God in Christ which is the gospel.
As we hear the word of God we find Jesus is actually teaching us how to repent and live upright lives that please God
your question assumes God needs proof of what he’s already known from the beginning so no we don’t have to prove anything to God he knows already who will repent and believe the gospel and who won’t this doesn’t really have anything to do with what I’m saying
or what the Bible is saying there when Paul explained it to the church
It’s just Paul presenting a fact that he knew was true He’s trying to prepare the church by telling them “ your works are important because one day you are going to have to answer for everything you have done and said good or evil if you don’t repent your also going to perish like Jesus forewarned in the gospel like God has always warned mankind since cain
He said this to cain
“And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?
and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.”
Genesis 4:6-7 KJV
“ you need to just do what’s right cain then you’ll be accepted if you don’t repent and do what’s right sin is going to overcome you , you must overcome it “
airs. Ot about any particular “ works “ it’s about being the kind of person Jesus taught his disciples to be in the gospel that’s all to walk in that spirit of goodness and kindness and mercy and grace for others ect those attributes will always lead us to actions or what you guys are calling “ works “ or other call “ deeds “
those attributes that Jesus exemplified first in life and taught and then exemplified on the cross
We’re saved because we hear the gospel d we don’t reject the words of God we hear in it like telling us we need to repent or telling us to is for instance this is true it’s not to prove anything to God , it’s to become and live as a child of God
“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
Matthew 6:14-15 KJV
there’s a lot of things like this that we need to hear and do , I myself don’t see this as anything but hearing what Jesus said about forgiveness and believing it because anyone who believes what he said is going to start forgiving people if they reject what he said they may not but if they hear it and believe they will act
arhats how faith is you hear Jesus and believe them he teaches us to act and gives us strength to change things we couldn’t before
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
We are saved by grace through the operation of faith hearing and believing the word of God in Christ which is the gospel.
As we hear the word of God we find Jesus is actually teaching us how to repent and live upright lives that please God
your question assumes God needs proof of what he’s already known from the beginning so no we don’t have to prove anything to God he knows already who will repent and believe the gospel and who won’t this doesn’t really have anything to do with what I’m saying
or what the Bible is saying there when Paul explained it to the church
It’s just Paul presenting a fact that he knew was true He’s trying to prepare the church by telling them “ your works are important because one day you are going to have to answer for everything you have done and said good or evil if you don’t repent your also going to perish like Jesus forewarned in the gospel like God has always warned mankind since cain
He said this to cain
“And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?
and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.”
Genesis 4:6-7 KJV
“ you need to just do what’s right cain then you’ll be accepted if you don’t repent and do what’s right sin is going to overcome you , you must overcome it “
airs. Ot about any particular “ works “ it’s about being the kind of person Jesus taught his disciples to be in the gospel that’s all to walk in that spirit of goodness and kindness and mercy and grace for others ect those attributes will always lead us to actions or what you guys are calling “ works “ or other call “ deeds “
those attributes that Jesus exemplified first in life and taught and then exemplified on the cross
We’re saved because we hear the gospel d we don’t reject the words of God we hear in it like telling us we need to repent or telling us to is for instance this is true it’s not to prove anything to God , it’s to become and live as a child of God
“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
Matthew 6:14-15 KJV
there’s a lot of things like this that we need to hear and do , I myself don’t see this as anything but hearing what Jesus said about forgiveness and believing it because anyone who believes what he said is going to start forgiving people if they reject what he said they may not but if they hear it and believe they will act
arhats how faith is you hear Jesus and believe them he teaches us to act and gives us strength to change things we couldn’t before
“Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
Romans 2:6-11 KJV
it’s pretty clear what he’s saying there
“render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: “-
That’s a person that repents
then this is for all who won’t repent
“but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;”
An extreme example , a man who is abusing his children but saying “I’m saved and forgiven already by the cross “ I have nothing to change
she has another thing coming because God is on the side of the abused innocent child not on the side of the abuser claiming the blood of Jesus to justify his actions and not have to repent because he claims he’s got faith
his actions have told the truth about his faith . his words lie but his deeds are truth he’s not going to be found not guilty he’s going to be brought to full account because he wouldn’t repent of serving the devils Will of perversions and abuse
From the beginning God has said to man “ do good and live do not do evil and die “
he sticks with that message throughout history
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
Romans 2:6-11 KJV
it’s pretty clear what he’s saying there
“render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: “-
That’s a person that repents
then this is for all who won’t repent
“but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;”
An extreme example , a man who is abusing his children but saying “I’m saved and forgiven already by the cross “ I have nothing to change
she has another thing coming because God is on the side of the abused innocent child not on the side of the abuser claiming the blood of Jesus to justify his actions and not have to repent because he claims he’s got faith
his actions have told the truth about his faith . his words lie but his deeds are truth he’s not going to be found not guilty he’s going to be brought to full account because he wouldn’t repent of serving the devils Will of perversions and abuse
From the beginning God has said to man “ do good and live do not do evil and die “
he sticks with that message throughout history
First you agree, of course proclaiming that JESUS Is righteous counts as doing a good work, then you follow that by saying,
but I wouldn't agree that the thief on the cross proclaiming that JESUS Is righteous Is a work. That is contradictory. .
but I wouldn't agree that the thief on the cross proclaiming that JESUS Is righteous Is a work. That is contradictory. .
