Is God A Moral Monster?
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In the Old Testament God had to protect Israel from attack on her and from being perverted from the truth for Jesus was coming through the nation of Israel, and they are His chosen people, and salvation is of the Jews which is why when a Gentile is saved they are a Jew inward, and part of the commonwealth of Israel.
Israel was the only ones justified to fight physically for her land without God going against them, which Gentiles could not do that for God allowed Babylon to take His people captive, but also punished them for doing it for God was not involved in it but Israel lost His protection because of disobedience for a certain amount of time.
God would also put down people that has a negative impact on people that grew too big and fighting with people, and perverting people from the truth which is mainly the kingdoms by allowing the evil spirits to stir up a nation or nations against them for His love and truth had to shine.
Which before the flood, and the tower of Babel is a good example that God had to interfere, and put a stop to it.
But everything God did in the Old Testament was for the love of people, and to protect them and allow the truth to be shone.
If God did not interfere in the Old Testament more people would of been hurt, killed, and perverted from the truth.
So God would judge on earth in the Old Testament and knew their heart that they would not change, and the children growing up would of done the same, and they has a negative impact on Israel, or spread their heathen ways and hurting people too far so God had to deal with them.
Now that Jesus came and gave eternal life, and the kingdom of God came by the Holy Spirit dwelling in the saints we no longer have to fight physically to put down our enemies.
God had to fight for the Jews to keep them safe, and in the truth for salvation is of the Jews, and Jesus was coming through the nation of Israel.
But Israel is still justified to fight physically for her land, and the saints are not to fight at all, and the world is not to fight at all.
The Amalekites were obviously those type of people that would impact Israel in a negative way, and attacked Israel when they came from Egypt to the promise land, and warred with Israel a lot.
If they wanted to wipe out Israel then God had to do something about it and their children would of done the same when they grew up for God said they have no fear of God.
God knew they would not change, or had a desire to change.
God went against Egypt to deliver the Jews and said that He wants His name to be known among the nations, which the Amalekites did not care.
Everything God did in the Old Testament was for the good of people in general, and for the good of Israel.
But we do not have to physically fight in the Old Testament, and we have to show love that the world does not show to that standard by not fighting verbally or physically as they do.
Isa 31:4 For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.
Isa 31:5 As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.
Israel can still fight physically to protect her land, and preserve it, for it is of the LORD, which Israeli fighter pilots paved the way to win the 6 day war, 1967, and take Jerusalem.
Israel was the only ones justified to fight physically for her land without God going against them, which Gentiles could not do that for God allowed Babylon to take His people captive, but also punished them for doing it for God was not involved in it but Israel lost His protection because of disobedience for a certain amount of time.
God would also put down people that has a negative impact on people that grew too big and fighting with people, and perverting people from the truth which is mainly the kingdoms by allowing the evil spirits to stir up a nation or nations against them for His love and truth had to shine.
Which before the flood, and the tower of Babel is a good example that God had to interfere, and put a stop to it.
But everything God did in the Old Testament was for the love of people, and to protect them and allow the truth to be shone.
If God did not interfere in the Old Testament more people would of been hurt, killed, and perverted from the truth.
So God would judge on earth in the Old Testament and knew their heart that they would not change, and the children growing up would of done the same, and they has a negative impact on Israel, or spread their heathen ways and hurting people too far so God had to deal with them.
Now that Jesus came and gave eternal life, and the kingdom of God came by the Holy Spirit dwelling in the saints we no longer have to fight physically to put down our enemies.
God had to fight for the Jews to keep them safe, and in the truth for salvation is of the Jews, and Jesus was coming through the nation of Israel.
But Israel is still justified to fight physically for her land, and the saints are not to fight at all, and the world is not to fight at all.
The Amalekites were obviously those type of people that would impact Israel in a negative way, and attacked Israel when they came from Egypt to the promise land, and warred with Israel a lot.
If they wanted to wipe out Israel then God had to do something about it and their children would of done the same when they grew up for God said they have no fear of God.
God knew they would not change, or had a desire to change.
God went against Egypt to deliver the Jews and said that He wants His name to be known among the nations, which the Amalekites did not care.
Everything God did in the Old Testament was for the good of people in general, and for the good of Israel.
But we do not have to physically fight in the Old Testament, and we have to show love that the world does not show to that standard by not fighting verbally or physically as they do.
Isa 31:4 For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.
Isa 31:5 As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.
Israel can still fight physically to protect her land, and preserve it, for it is of the LORD, which Israeli fighter pilots paved the way to win the 6 day war, 1967, and take Jerusalem.
It would appear the histories show both Henotheism and Polytheism in practice by early Jews. Idolatry is not a faith and practice in itself, as you note, it is rather the creation or idealization of a symbol or carving that represents deity-deities.
Henotheism
...Canaanite religion and early Judaism
Rabbinical Judaism as it developed in Late Antiquity is emphatically monotheistic. However, its predecessor—the various schools of Hellenistic Judaism and Second Temple Judaism, and especially the cult of Yahweh as it was practiced in ancient Israel and Judah during the 8th and 7th centuries BC—have been described as henotheistic.
For example, the Moabites worshipped the god Chemosh, the Edomites, Qaus, both of whom were part of the greater Canaanite pantheon, headed by the chief god, El. The Canaanite pantheon consisted of El and Asherah as the chief deities, with 70 sons who were said to rule over each of the nations of the earth. These sons were each worshiped within a specific region. Kurt Noll states that "the Bible preserves a tradition that Yahweh used to 'live' in the south, in the land of Edom" and that the original god of Israel was El Shaddai.[27]
Several Biblical stories[which?] allude to the belief that the Canaanite gods all existed and were thought[by whom?] to possess the most power in the lands by the people who worshiped them and their sacred objects; their power was believed to be real and could be invoked by the people who patronized them. There are numerous accounts[citation needed] of surrounding nations of Israel showing fear or reverence for the Israelite God despite their continued polytheistic practices.[28] For instance, in 1 Samuel 4, the Philistines fret before the second battle of Aphek when they learn that the Israelites are bearing the Ark of the Covenant, and therefore Yahweh, into battle. The Israelites were forbidden[29] to worship other deities, but according to some interpretations[which?] of the Bible, they were not fully monotheistic before the Babylonian captivity. Mark S. Smith refers to this stage as a form of monolatry.[30] Smith argues that Yahweh underwent a process of merging with El and that acceptance of cults of Asherah was common in the period of the Judges.[30] 2 Kings 3:27 has been interpreted as describing a human sacrifice in Moab that led the invading Israelite army to fear the power of Chemosh.[31]
[END of excerpt]
Indications of Polytheism in Jewish history also appears in today's Old Testament much to the outrage of the one God.
The goddess Asherah was worshiped in ancient Judah and Israel and she was also the mother of 70 son's, being the consort of the Canaanite god, "El". Her title was, queen of heaven.
18.The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead [their] dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger." The Book of Jeremiah chapter 7
Shared earlier from the Jewish Virtual Library:
Ancient Jewish History: The Birth and Evolution of Judaism
Pre-Mosaic Stage (1950-1300 BCE)
scholars draw on the text of Genesis to conclude the following controversial ideas about early Hebrew religion:
— Early Hebrew religion was polytheistic; the curious plural form of the name of God, Elohim rather than El, leads them to believe that the original Hebrew religion involved several gods. This plural form, however, can be explained as a "royal" plural. Several other aspects of the account of Hebrew religion in Genesis also imply a polytheistic faith.
— The earliest Hebrew religion was animistic, that is, the Hebrews seemed worship forces of nature that dwelled in natural objects.
— As a result, much of early Hebrew religion had a number of practices that fall into the category of magic: scapegoat sacrifice and various forms of imitative magic, all of which are preserved in the text of Genesis .
— Early Hebrew religion eventually became anthropomorphic, that is, god or the gods took human forms; in later Hebrew religion, Yahweh becomes a figure that transcends the human and material worlds. Individual tribes probably worshipped different gods; there is no evidence in Genesis that anything like a national God existed in the time of the patriarchs.
The most profound revolution in Hebrew thought, though, occurred in the migration from Egypt, and its great innovator was Moses. In the epic events surrounding the flight from Egypt and the settling of the promised land, Hebrew religion became permanently and irrevocably, the Mosaic religion.
If a person reads the Old Testament without bias or prejudice they will see that the God of the Old Testament is love and merciful.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
The truth is a new age atheist does not want to hear the truth, but they want to believe in the occult for they are highly arrogant, and selfish.
They will not take the Bible for what it is but interpret it according to the occult, and evolution, for they want to evolve to be greater and spiritual.
God warns us of the new age movement and the time will come the world will only want to hear the Bible according to the new age movement when it is a unified religious system, and evolution is religion and they stop the preaching of anything contrary to it saying it is not truth, and they are going against peace for the world.
The beast kingdom is the worse kingdom in the history of mankind, and the people the most cruelest, hateful, and arrogant people in the history of mankind.
It is the kingdom of man in it's entirety where the kingdoms before it was not for they had the belief of a higher power above them.
That is why it is over for the beast kingdom took away the hope of the world.
And they are opposite of Christianity where before them they were not opposite of Christianity for they showed traces of love, and showed mercy at times towards those they conquered and let some live.
And that is because although they believed that God gave them ruler ship over others they still showed some kind of compassion because of their God.
The man Christ Jesus and the man of sin is opposite.
And the new age atheist and Christianity is opposite.
A traditional atheist is not opposite, Babylon of old was not opposite, nor any other belief in the past is opposite.
But the man of sin, and the beast kingdom is opposite of Christianity for this is of the devil, and the devil influenced them more than any other time in the past, which he will be off his leash concerning the wicked in the future, and they will have a nature of a devil, and the human will is no longer making the decision.
The new age atheist will claim Christianity interpreted by the new age movement, which the Bible says their conscience is seared with a hot iron, which they will not show the love of Christ, and have the wrong concept of wrong and right.
That is because they believe they are justified for they believe that they have the truth, and anything contrary to it is not the truth, and causing fighting on earth that is against the peace they want, which makes them very dangerous.
So their attitude will be that the people they go against do not care about the welfare of the world, or people, so they will show no mercy upon them, including Christianity for they view them in the same way as everybody else.
The Bible says the time will come that they will not want to hear the truth of the Bible, but want to hear it according to their own lusts, heaping many teachers to themselves telling them that what they believe is the truth, having itching ears, which they do not want to believe anything else.
Many are called but few are chosen, and not many wise after the flesh, or mighty, or noble are called, for they want to exalt themselves too high by the power of nature, and cannot stand a higher power above them.
Which the Bible says they are haters of God, and when they go against the ones against them they will think they are doing God's will, for even though they are atheists they honor the God of forces, or the power of nature, the evolutionary process, and believe nature would want them to get rid of the ones against them for they are upsetting the balance and peace that nature would want.
A traditional atheist has morals for they do not believe in the supernatural so they would not believe they can be exalted to such a high level.
The occult years ago would have some morals for they believed in a higher power such as Egypt and Babylon.
But once evolution came out the occultists who want power so much that they are dripping with arrogance, and oozing with self exaltation, interpreted religion as evolution and not a higher power, so it does not keep them at bay but the flesh exalts itself without limit and the worse it can be.
Which Paul said in the flesh dwells no good thing, and because they do not like to retain God in their knowledge He turns them over to a reprobate mind, which He does not work in their lives at all and they only go by the flesh, and they are filled with all unrighteousness.
So they are the worse people ever in the history of mankind.
But they do not want to hear anything but the occult, and they believe they are justified for their cruelty, and hatefulness, so they will be very dangerous in the future, and do not want to leave anybody around that opposes them.
But it is the devil deceiving them which they go by seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.
For the time has come for God to end this sin business on earth so it has to be, and has to be opposite of Christianity which is the beast kingdom in the future.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
The truth is a new age atheist does not want to hear the truth, but they want to believe in the occult for they are highly arrogant, and selfish.
They will not take the Bible for what it is but interpret it according to the occult, and evolution, for they want to evolve to be greater and spiritual.
God warns us of the new age movement and the time will come the world will only want to hear the Bible according to the new age movement when it is a unified religious system, and evolution is religion and they stop the preaching of anything contrary to it saying it is not truth, and they are going against peace for the world.
The beast kingdom is the worse kingdom in the history of mankind, and the people the most cruelest, hateful, and arrogant people in the history of mankind.
It is the kingdom of man in it's entirety where the kingdoms before it was not for they had the belief of a higher power above them.
That is why it is over for the beast kingdom took away the hope of the world.
And they are opposite of Christianity where before them they were not opposite of Christianity for they showed traces of love, and showed mercy at times towards those they conquered and let some live.
And that is because although they believed that God gave them ruler ship over others they still showed some kind of compassion because of their God.
The man Christ Jesus and the man of sin is opposite.
And the new age atheist and Christianity is opposite.
A traditional atheist is not opposite, Babylon of old was not opposite, nor any other belief in the past is opposite.
But the man of sin, and the beast kingdom is opposite of Christianity for this is of the devil, and the devil influenced them more than any other time in the past, which he will be off his leash concerning the wicked in the future, and they will have a nature of a devil, and the human will is no longer making the decision.
The new age atheist will claim Christianity interpreted by the new age movement, which the Bible says their conscience is seared with a hot iron, which they will not show the love of Christ, and have the wrong concept of wrong and right.
That is because they believe they are justified for they believe that they have the truth, and anything contrary to it is not the truth, and causing fighting on earth that is against the peace they want, which makes them very dangerous.
So their attitude will be that the people they go against do not care about the welfare of the world, or people, so they will show no mercy upon them, including Christianity for they view them in the same way as everybody else.
The Bible says the time will come that they will not want to hear the truth of the Bible, but want to hear it according to their own lusts, heaping many teachers to themselves telling them that what they believe is the truth, having itching ears, which they do not want to believe anything else.
Many are called but few are chosen, and not many wise after the flesh, or mighty, or noble are called, for they want to exalt themselves too high by the power of nature, and cannot stand a higher power above them.
Which the Bible says they are haters of God, and when they go against the ones against them they will think they are doing God's will, for even though they are atheists they honor the God of forces, or the power of nature, the evolutionary process, and believe nature would want them to get rid of the ones against them for they are upsetting the balance and peace that nature would want.
A traditional atheist has morals for they do not believe in the supernatural so they would not believe they can be exalted to such a high level.
The occult years ago would have some morals for they believed in a higher power such as Egypt and Babylon.
But once evolution came out the occultists who want power so much that they are dripping with arrogance, and oozing with self exaltation, interpreted religion as evolution and not a higher power, so it does not keep them at bay but the flesh exalts itself without limit and the worse it can be.
Which Paul said in the flesh dwells no good thing, and because they do not like to retain God in their knowledge He turns them over to a reprobate mind, which He does not work in their lives at all and they only go by the flesh, and they are filled with all unrighteousness.
So they are the worse people ever in the history of mankind.
But they do not want to hear anything but the occult, and they believe they are justified for their cruelty, and hatefulness, so they will be very dangerous in the future, and do not want to leave anybody around that opposes them.
But it is the devil deceiving them which they go by seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.
For the time has come for God to end this sin business on earth so it has to be, and has to be opposite of Christianity which is the beast kingdom in the future.
John 1 New International Version (NIV)
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 6:41 New International Version (NIV)
41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”
Exodus 3:14 New International Version (NIV)
14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”
John 6:48 New International Version (NIV)
48 I am the bread of life.
The Word was God and is God. The Word was in the beginning with God. The Word became flesh. The Word is life. And through him all things was made.
The Word was Jesus Christ. Jesus taught from the Old Testament. Never once claiming the law or God to had been corrupted except that man themselves was not following the Prophets or word of God.
The OT and NT are in perfect harmony. Recorded and written by over 60 different authors over 1000s of years but yet fit together as if 1 author wrote the whole Bible. But technically one author did. The same one who is timeless but works as the Alpha and Omega. A thread runs through the Bible connecting every book or letter. A thread that binds them as one. A divine inspiration guided by the Spirit of God.
This is Christianity.
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 6:41 New International Version (NIV)
41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”
Exodus 3:14 New International Version (NIV)
14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”
John 6:48 New International Version (NIV)
48 I am the bread of life.
The Word was God and is God. The Word was in the beginning with God. The Word became flesh. The Word is life. And through him all things was made.
The Word was Jesus Christ. Jesus taught from the Old Testament. Never once claiming the law or God to had been corrupted except that man themselves was not following the Prophets or word of God.
The OT and NT are in perfect harmony. Recorded and written by over 60 different authors over 1000s of years but yet fit together as if 1 author wrote the whole Bible. But technically one author did. The same one who is timeless but works as the Alpha and Omega. A thread runs through the Bible connecting every book or letter. A thread that binds them as one. A divine inspiration guided by the Spirit of God.
This is Christianity.
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DINO
Perhaps there are some more threads we could do with the latest findings. But do you think there would be any point?
Not many people on this particular thread have dealt with any of the substantive issues I have raised. There has been an obfuscation of the real points by assuming I,m badly motivated ( trying to undermine the "word of god"); assertions of theological positions and a refusal to go there. Is God a moral monster? I,m trying to argue that HE IS NOT. It is that people misunderstand God. My argument is that the bible is an evolution in understanding God; written by a particular people, under a particular historical context. The latest scholarship and archaeology seem to support that view. That evolution culminates in God is Love with Christ. Not one person said anything about the point that Thomas Romer (a highly respected professor of Hebrew scripture) made in the link I sent, that the genocide stories were counter stories to the Assyrian ones. He gives context and evidence in his work.
So would there be any point to another thread? What do you think?
Perhaps there are some more threads we could do with the latest findings. But do you think there would be any point?
Not many people on this particular thread have dealt with any of the substantive issues I have raised. There has been an obfuscation of the real points by assuming I,m badly motivated ( trying to undermine the "word of god"); assertions of theological positions and a refusal to go there. Is God a moral monster? I,m trying to argue that HE IS NOT. It is that people misunderstand God. My argument is that the bible is an evolution in understanding God; written by a particular people, under a particular historical context. The latest scholarship and archaeology seem to support that view. That evolution culminates in God is Love with Christ. Not one person said anything about the point that Thomas Romer (a highly respected professor of Hebrew scripture) made in the link I sent, that the genocide stories were counter stories to the Assyrian ones. He gives context and evidence in his work.
So would there be any point to another thread? What do you think?