Is healing promised to the believers?

[Dai3234]

A slave to who? Property of who? We are children of God, but that doesn't stop Him from giving us illnesses to deal with.. It's HOW we cope with those illnesses, that determine whether we let it enslave or own us or not.

A slave to God, carrying our daily cross.

 

[Dai3234]

One of the things you have to be convinced of before you even approach this is that healing is in Christ’s atonement. Look at what it says here in 1 Peter, talking about Jesus:

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

1 Peter 2:24​

Notice how it says Jesus took stripes for your healing! It’s yours! It’s one of the things Jesus bought for you through His sacrifice! And this verse says, “Ye were healed” (emphasis mine)—past tense. This is such a clear statement that I wonder how any Christian could not believe that. But I’ve learned that many people don’t let the Bible get in the way of their theology. Even some who believe God can heal don’t believe He will or has already healed. They say things like, “Well, God heals but not all the time. Sometimes it’s not His will.” But it’s hard to argue with a past-tense statement like that of 1 Peter 2:24.

It’s taken from a prophecy Isaiah gave in Isaiah 53, which says,

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 53:5​

Some people try to make this mean Jesus only took stripes for our spiritual healing. Well, he did suffer for our spiritual health, but let’s look at how the prophecy was fulfilled, in Matthew 8:

When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: [17] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias [Isaiah] the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Look at the words a little deeper, or don't. Just saying, says SO THAT Is-ai-as words fulfilled. Not so all will be healed whenever etc... But I pray that we all will in Jesus name Amen.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Why shouldn't we carry our crosses? After all, Jesus bore them all upon Himself, long before they were given to us...

A slave to God, carrying our daily cross.

 

[Dai3234]

Why shouldn't we carry our crosses? After all, Jesus bore them all upon Himself, long before they were given to us...

I was just referencing what Paul mentioned, about being a slave, I think? It's hard work, and often depressing.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Yeah it definitely is. But it's also interesting to see what we learn from each of our trials..

I was just referencing what Paul mentioned, about being a slave, I think? It's hard work, and often depressing.

 

[Dai3234]

Yeah it definitely is. But it's also interesting to see what we learn from each of our trials..

Yeah, but learning that God punishes when we fail, and we are often failing, is painfully tiring. I was forced to be fearful and give up smoking, then two weeks later roughly, I had a sludge DVT in the leg, then itchy veins whenever I have coffee or coke etc. Or I was forced to quit drinking, n can't drink coke or strong drinks, lucozade etc because I feel sick and my eyes go green, oh and my gums bleed alot after brushing teeth, like a vampire. Or veins scan at itchy spots sometimes. Just what I learn is don't smoke or drink for years from your teens, uh, or annoy God by continuing to smoke by weakness. Then get DVT. Whatever, I'll be dead someday.

 

[blue_ladybug]

God doesn't punish us when we fail. We live in an evil, sin-sick world. Smoking and drinking are bad for us, anyone knows that. And if your gums bleed, then go to a dentist and find out why... Don't blame God, blame this sinful world that we were brought into.

Yeah, but learning that God punishes when we fail, and we are often failing, is painfully tiring. I was forced to be fearful and give up smoking, then two weeks later roughly, I had a sludge DVT in the leg, then itchy veins whenever I have coffee or coke etc. Or I was forced to quit drinking, n can't drink coke or strong drinks, lucozade etc because I feel sick and my eyes go green, oh and my gums bleed alot after brushing teeth, like a vampire. Or veins scan at itchy spots sometimes. Just what I learn is don't smoke or drink for years from your teens, uh, or annoy God by continuing to smoke by weakness. Then get DVT. Whatever, I'll be dead someday.

 

[Dai3234]

God doesn't punish us when we fail. We live in an evil, sin-sick world. Smoking and drinking are bad for us, anyone knows that. And if your gums bleed, then go to a dentist and find out why... Don't blame God, blame this sinful world that we were brought into.

He scourges and punishes the sons of disobedience. He does punish us, or you are a "bast****" as it says etc.

I knew I should give up, I new God most likely was pushing me to give up smoking, but carried on a day or two, then got fearful, stopped and was punished for probably not stopping when I knew to... That's what it seemed exactly like. And the gums bleed because of the vein issues, unless it lasts a year and stops, from imbedded nicotine?? Maybe, dentist guessing?

 

[blue_ladybug]

That is a cop out. If you felt led to stop smoking, it's because God was urging you to stop poisoning your body with it.. He doesn't punish us for not doing something when HE wants us to. Blame satan. Not God. I've told you this before, but you have a lousy attitude about all this. And nicotine does NOT get "imbedded", unless you're using chewing tobacco. Even then, go to a dentist and get it checked.

He scourges and punishes the sons of disobedience. He does punish us, or you are a "bast****" as it says etc.

I knew I should give up, I new God most likely was pushing me to give up smoking, but carried on a day or two, then got fearful, stopped and was punished for probably not stopping when I knew to... That's what it seemed exactly like. And the gums bleed because of the vein issues, unless it lasts a year and stops, from imbedded nicotine?? Maybe, dentist guessing?

 

[Dai3234]

That is a cop out. If you felt led to stop smoking, it's because God was urging you to stop poisoning your body with it.. He doesn't punish us for not doing something when HE wants us to. Blame satan. Not God. I've told you this before, but you have a lousy attitude about all this. And nicotine does NOT get "imbedded", unless you're using chewing tobacco. Even then, go to a dentist and get it checked.

I'm sorry you misunderstood. Thanks book of Job, shows satan is a tool used by God. Satan is an errand boy that can only work within permission. It shows this clearly in Job. But it does not mention the full relationship.

But it does mention job having boils and his family killed, all permitted by God, limiting Satan's permission to harm.

Also the ot says God kills, heals, plagues, makes alive, and does all things. He does not change, so he does harm and does control Satan's permissions etc. For the refining of gold as I think job said. To make us follow God better or something like that, I think? Sorry, but that's the way I read it, hope you can see my point.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Satan is controlled by God. He can only do what God allows him to do.. God has a reason for everything that He does, and we don't always get to understand that reason..

I'm sorry you misunderstood. Thanks book of Job, shows satan is a tool used by God. Satan is an errand boy that can only work within permission. It shows this clearly in Job. But it does not mention the full relationship.

But it does mention job having boils and his family killed, all permitted by God, limiting Satan's permission to harm.

Also the ot says God kills, heals, plagues, makes alive, and does all things. He does not change, so he does harm and does control Satan's permissions etc. For the refining of gold as I think job said. To make us follow God better or something like that, I think? Sorry, but that's the way I read it, hope you can see my point.

 

[wolfwint]

Agree with you 100% on this. Each of us has to decide what we personally believe the Bible is saying to us. No one can dictate to us for or against healing in the atonement. We can present the Bible verses that convince us for or against when we come here on CC and then the ultimate choice is with each individual Christian how they want to proceed.

There is no reason to condemn on either side should the other not see it the same as we do. I have chosen to believe in healing in the atonement and am thoroughly convinced in the truth as it has been shown in the Bible and through the Holy Spirit and His witness to me. We come here to "share" our faith., not condemn others for theirs.

well, wether our teaching is right ore wrong not we decide it. Its God our father who decide what is right and wrong, not we ore what we believe. There is only one truth. According the Thread headline: either God has promissed it to all christians ore not. There is no place for a maby, ore partwise healing. You have to missinterprete scripture and taking Text out of the context for to Support your View. Of course you can believe it as you want, but this makes it not Coming truth. The Truth is what the scripture says. And in running after a false view, the danger is to confuse others too. Nowhere the scripture support your view, and the reality proofes it, that this view is not biblical.

 

[joaniemarie]

well, wether our teaching is right ore wrong not we decide it. Its God our father who decide what is right and wrong, not we ore what we believe. There is only one truth. According the Thread headline: either God has promissed it to all christians ore not. There is no place for a maby, ore partwise healing. You have to missinterprete scripture and taking Text out of the context for to Support your View. Of course you can believe it as you want, but this makes it not Coming truth. The Truth is what the scripture says. And in running after a false view, the danger is to confuse others too. Nowhere the scripture support your view, and the reality proofes it, that this view is not biblical.

You need to read what I was agreeing with 100%. shhhheeessshhhh.... Each of us need to read the Bible ourselves and be listening to the Holy Spirit who teaches and instructs and guides us. No one can do that for you but you. (let God be true and every man a liar) Meaning., we don't listen to other people or even ourselves., we listen to the Spirit of God as He shows us the truth of the Bible.

Re: Is healing promised to the believers?

Originally Posted by Waggles

Look honestly in the end it is a matter of faith in divine healing.
Lots of people go to churches that do not preach and uphold healings
and miracles by the power of God.
So they miss out and convince themselves that such does not happen
anymore.

Some of us are members of churches that preach and uphold
divine healings and miracles by the power of God, and
as such stand on the promises of God given in the scriptures.
Hence we have an abundance of testimonies to healings and miracles.

Each to their own.






Agree with you 100% on this. Each of us has to decide what we personally believe the Bible is saying to us. No one can dictate to us for or against healing in the atonement. We can present the Bible verses that convince us for or against when we come here on CC and then the ultimate choice is with each individual Christian how they want to proceed. ​

 

[joaniemarie]

Yeah, but learning that God punishes when we fail, and we are often failing, is painfully tiring. I was forced to be fearful and give up smoking, then two weeks later roughly, I had a sludge DVT in the leg, then itchy veins whenever I have coffee or coke etc. Or I was forced to quit drinking, n can't drink coke or strong drinks, lucozade etc because I feel sick and my eyes go green, oh and my gums bleed alot after brushing teeth, like a vampire. Or veins scan at itchy spots sometimes. Just what I learn is don't smoke or drink for years from your teens, uh, or annoy God by continuing to smoke by weakness. Then get DVT. Whatever, I'll be dead someday.

If you are a believer., Jesus already was punished for your sins. Why do you have to be re-punished over and over again? Discipline is not punishment. Discipline is "instruction" and we are instructed when we are reading the Bible by the washing of the water of the Word.

Natural consequences like getting fat if we over eat are not God's punishment. They are consequences for certain actions like if you jump off a 5 story building., you will die. If you drive a car into the river... you and the car will sink... (law of gravity)

 

[joaniemarie]

Dai3234, You really need to read about Jesus and how He has already paid for your salvation. Here is a book review on a good book called "He Qualifies You" There is also a video message below. He points out that IN Christ you have been accepted in the Beloved.





In this book Chad Mansbridge, of Bayside Church International, outlines the three main covenants of the Bible, namely, the covenants that God made with Abraham, Moses and Jesus.

Why do you need to know this stuff?

Because many people in the church today are mixing covenants. Just like the Galatians they mix the law covenant of Moses with the grace covenant of Jesus Christ. You know Christians are mixed up when you hear things like:

Jesus died for you, what will you do for Him?

When you sin you come under His condemnation.

If you don’t tithe you’ll bring a curse on yourself/us/our church.

If you’re sick there’s probably unconfessed sin in your life. Or maybe your Grandfather sinned.

Although we’re not saved by observing the 10 commandments, you’d better do them anyway. Or else.

Whenever you mix the new wine of the grace covenant with the old wineskin of the law covenant something good will be lost. And that’s why we need to grasp the different ways God has chosen to relate to people.

Under the Abrahamic Covenant God blessed the descendants of Abraham because of their pedigree. Under the Mosaic Covenant, God blessed the Israelites on the basis of their performance. Under the New Covenant God blesses us because of our position in Christ.

Under the New Covenant we are qualified by the Father through Jesus Christ (Col 1:12). It makes no difference whether we are Jewish or Japanese or Javanese (Gal 3:28). It makes no difference whether we perform all 600 commandments found in the Old Testament (Gal 2:16). What matters is that we are in Christ, clothed with His righteousness (Php 3:9).

These are exciting days. All over the world the church is waking up to the profound truth that He qualifies us. The lights are going on and Christians everywhere are being set free from dead religion. It’s not about me, it’s about Him. It’s not about what I am doing or not doing for Jesus, it’s about what He has already done on the cross.

Read He Qualifies You or watch Chad Mansbridge preach the same message here. I guarantee you’ll come away thanking God for the awesome good news revealed to us through Jesus.

 

[joaniemarie]

Just listened to the message and it was such a blessing. We quality for God's blessing because of Jesus because all the promises in Jesus are YES and AMEN. Wow. When God sees us He sees His Son. We are 100% righteous in Him. Not based on our pedigree or performance. We want to be found IN HIM. HOW AWESOME IS THIS!

I never tire of hearing this. Jesus has the perfect pedigree. We are placed into Jesus and we become sons of God. Jesus Father becomes our Father! No judgment upon us because Jesus already took our punishment on the cross. We put no confidence in the flesh. Our identity has totally changed.

 

[Dai3234]

Dai3234, You really need to read about Jesus and how He has already paid for your salvation. Here is a book review on a good book called "He Qualifies You" There is also a video message below. He points out that IN Christ you have been accepted in the Beloved.





In this book Chad Mansbridge, of Bayside Church International, outlines the three main covenants of the Bible, namely, the covenants that God made with Abraham, Moses and Jesus.

Why do you need to know this stuff?

Because many people in the church today are mixing covenants. Just like the Galatians they mix the law covenant of Moses with the grace covenant of Jesus Christ. You know Christians are mixed up when you hear things like:

Jesus died for you, what will you do for Him?

When you sin you come under His condemnation.

If you don’t tithe you’ll bring a curse on yourself/us/our church.

If you’re sick there’s probably unconfessed sin in your life. Or maybe your Grandfather sinned.

Although we’re not saved by observing the 10 commandments, you’d better do them anyway. Or else.

Whenever you mix the new wine of the grace covenant with the old wineskin of the law covenant something good will be lost. And that’s why we need to grasp the different ways God has chosen to relate to people.

Under the Abrahamic Covenant God blessed the descendants of Abraham because of their pedigree. Under the Mosaic Covenant, God blessed the Israelites on the basis of their performance. Under the New Covenant God blesses us because of our position in Christ.

Under the New Covenant we are qualified by the Father through Jesus Christ (Col 1:12). It makes no difference whether we are Jewish or Japanese or Javanese (Gal 3:28). It makes no difference whether we perform all 600 commandments found in the Old Testament (Gal 2:16). What matters is that we are in Christ, clothed with His righteousness (Php 3:9).

These are exciting days. All over the world the church is waking up to the profound truth that He qualifies us. The lights are going on and Christians everywhere are being set free from dead religion. It’s not about me, it’s about Him. It’s not about what I am doing or not doing for Jesus, it’s about what He has already done on the cross.

Read He Qualifies You or watch Chad Mansbridge preach the same message here. I guarantee you’ll come away thanking God for the awesome good news revealed to us through Jesus.

I know we have salvation, but chastening and scourging is part of it. "All are partakers", or your not a "son". That's what the book says. Though I'm not sure it matters, as we all die eventually, so what does it matter. I have no life of my own, I work, I eat, I sleep, I die, I forget myself in heaven, with no life of my own, just nice forgetfulness. Though would have been nice to move out and grow etc.

 

[wolfwint]

You need to read what I was agreeing with 100%. shhhheeessshhhh.... Each of us need to read the Bible ourselves and be listening to the Holy Spirit who teaches and instructs and guides us. No one can do that for you but you. (let God be true and every man a liar) Meaning., we don't listen to other people or even ourselves., we listen to the Spirit of God as He shows us the truth of the Bible.

Re: Is healing promised to the believers?

Originally Posted by Waggles

Look honestly in the end it is a matter of faith in divine healing.
Lots of people go to churches that do not preach and uphold healings
and miracles by the power of God.
So they miss out and convince themselves that such does not happen
anymore.

Some of us are members of churches that preach and uphold
divine healings and miracles by the power of God, and
as such stand on the promises of God given in the scriptures.
Hence we have an abundance of testimonies to healings and miracles.

Each to their own.






Agree with you 100% on this. Each of us has to decide what we personally believe the Bible is saying to us. No one can dictate to us for or against healing in the atonement. We can present the Bible verses that convince us for or against when we come here on CC and then the ultimate choice is with each individual Christian how they want to proceed. ​

Yes, and this is the Dilemma. Everybody claimes to be the teacher (including me ). This leads to the view that everybody is right. I believe this and are right and you believe this and are right. This is the timespirit, who says: do what you want ore believe what you want, everything is right. I am convinced that the Holy Spirit Tells not to one something as truth und to Another the opposit as the truth.
If God would have promissed to all believers physical health, then we would find this in the scripture for the Church. -Your useing of OT scripture has nothing to do with the Church, because the OT believers didnt knew anything about the Church.-
We also would find this in the churchhistory. Why the believers from beginning should ignore such a promiss? And we would find it in the reality!
As I said, I believe that Jesus heales Today, but according his will and not according our Doctrines.

 

[louis]

It is so irresponsible to say that God heals everyone. He did not promise healing. He promised Heaven.

In effect what you are stating is that you do not believe in Gods Word in James 5:15 which states that the prayer of faith will save the sick. It excludes no one.

James 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

 

[louis]

ummmm

Jesus is the Son of God. He does not believe in certain things. He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

as I have stated before, people need to get grounded in the basic doctrines of the Bible and stop putting the Trinity down to a level they understand

God wants to elevate us and our understanding out of humanistic reasoning. If not, we end up with people who cannot comprehend that God in the OT is the exact same in the NT

salvation and healing are both provisions of God and just as salvation is not earned or kept by what we do, healing is also at the discretion of God

our entire life as a Christian is one of faith. if healing is doled out in measure by our response, then it seems salvation must be on equally uncertain ground

sounds shaky? exactly

What do think Jesus being the Way means? It means what he believed in is what He acted upon. That is the Way we should go.
And what did the Truth say was the Way? Answer: To love God ((who is Love (1 John 4:8)), with everything you have; and likewise to love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:36-39).
You therefore have to believe (have faith) in this truth (Way) in order to have the Life.

Matthew 26:36 [FONT=&quot]Master, which is the great commandment in the law?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]38 This is the first and great commandment.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[/FONT]