Is healing promised to the believers?

[joaniemarie]

Yes, and this is the Dilemma. Everybody claimes to be the teacher (including me ). This leads to the view that everybody is right. I believe this and are right and you believe this and are right. This is the timespirit, who says: do what you want ore believe what you want, everything is right. I am convinced that the Holy Spirit Tells not to one something as truth und to Another the opposit as the truth.
If God would have promissed to all believers physical health, then we would find this in the scripture for the Church. -Your useing of OT scripture has nothing to do with the Church, because the OT believers didnt knew anything about the Church.-
We also would find this in the churchhistory. Why the believers from beginning should ignore such a promiss? And we would find it in the reality!
As I said, I believe that Jesus heales Today, but according his will and not according our Doctrines.

I certainly hear what you are saying and I by no means am saying "everyone is right" We all want to be right let's put it that way. But if you've lived on planet earth long enough you notice how people are right in some things and wrong in others. This is also true in the Christian's life. Many will be unbending in their certain beliefs only to find out later they were wrong. In Christ we are not condemned for being human as it says in Romans 8:1 Jesus already paid for our human problem when we got saved.

And we now have the Holy Spirit and that makes all the difference. Those of us who are believers know that some of our brothers and sisters don't agree with everything we believe but they are still believers. It took us time to learn what we know so we give others the grace and time to learn as well. And we have already found out we don't know everything so we have to also be willing to learn. His mercies are new every morning.

It used to be very hard for me to understand how some believers could be so different than "me". (shocker and hello) But the truth and reality is obvious., we are different in many ways., but we are still born again believers in Christ. Even when we differ in areas of faith concerning healing and or speaking in tongues or how we conduct our church services.,etc... Yet., we each have one Spirit if we have received Jesus Christ as our personal Savior because we have been born again., sealed by the Holy Spirit. How we learn from Him depends on many factors.

I can trust that He knows how to handle me and everyone else. It's not my job to teach or condemn or insist another believer be exactly like me. We can share what we have learned with one another but the ultimate choice to accept or reject something we hear or read will be on us and our personal relationship in Christ and His Holy Spirit.

Some things are none negotiable In Christ., but some things are matters of agreeing to disagree.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

What do think Jesus being the Way means? It means what he believed in is what He acted upon. That is the Way we should go.
And what did the Truth say was the Way? Answer: To love God ((who is Love (1 John 4:8)), with everything you have; and likewise to love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:36-39).
You therefore have to believe (have faith) in this truth (Way) in order to have the Life.

Matthew 26:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

let me summarize for you because going through this twisted hand plucked mashup of scripture that has ZERO to do with the op, (take a breath here) is boring for me and most likely painful for you

renew your mind according to scripture and then we'll talk

doctrine is not the antithesis of scripture ... it is the foundation

 

[7seasrekeyed]

In effect what you are stating is that you do not believe in Gods Word in James 5:15 which states that the prayer of faith will save the sick. It excludes no one.

James 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

you are not presenting God's word

you are presenting the WOF version

she is right. you are wrong

 

[wolfwint]

I certainly hear what you are saying and I by no means am saying "everyone is right" We all want to be right let's put it that way. But if you've lived on planet earth long enough you notice how people are right in some things and wrong in others. This is also true in the Christian's life. Many will be unbending in their certain beliefs only to find out later they were wrong. In Christ we are not condemned for being human as it says in Romans 8:1 Jesus already paid for our human problem when we got saved.

And we now have the Holy Spirit and that makes all the difference. Those of us who are believers know that some of our brothers and sisters don't agree with everything we believe but they are still believers. It took us time to learn what we know so we give others the grace and time to learn as well. And we have already found out we don't know everything so we have to also be willing to learn. His mercies are new every morning.

It used to be very hard for me to understand how some believers could be so different than "me". (shocker and hello) But the truth and reality is obvious., we are different in many ways., but we are still born again believers in Christ. Even when we differ in areas of faith concerning healing and or speaking in tongues or how we conduct our church services.,etc... Yet., we each have one Spirit if we have received Jesus Christ as our personal Savior because we have been born again., sealed by the Holy Spirit. How we learn from Him depends on many factors.

I can trust that He knows how to handle me and everyone else. It's not my job to teach or condemn or insist another believer be exactly like me. We can share what we have learned with one another but the ultimate choice to accept or reject something we hear or read will be on us and our personal relationship in Christ and His Holy Spirit.

Some things are none negotiable In Christ., but some things are matters of agreeing to disagree.

Good post, and i agree with you that we do not know Everything. And also our father has different ways to treat with.The OP Theme has nothing to do with our personell expieriences with our father. Some of us expierience healing, others not.
If Somebody claims that every believer get healed and our father has promissed that, then there must be a Foundation for that claim in the scripture. And this Foundation is not there!

Why f.e. Paul, who knows the OT scripture like Jesaja, 53 Never quotet this Verses and taught what mostly charismatics and pentecostals teaching today. Would it not be a central point in the life of a christian?. Because nobody wants to be sick ore handycapted.

 

[louis]

let me summarize for you because going through this twisted hand plucked mashup of scripture that has ZERO to do with the op, (take a breath here) is boring for me and most likely painful for you

renew your mind according to scripture and then we'll talk

doctrine is not the antithesis of scripture ... it is the foundation

There will be those who thought the knew the Way, only to be told by the Way that He never knew them (Matt 7:23); which is the equivalent of these whom the Lord never having known, they never having known love, who is God (1 John 4:8).

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

 

[louis]

you are not presenting God's word

you are presenting the WOF version

she is right. you are wrong

I make claims with scriptural support for my perspective, while you make contradictory claims without any scriptural support.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

There will be those who thought the knew the Way, only to be told by the Way that He never knew them (Matt 7:23); which is the equivalent of these whom the Lord never having known, they never having known love, who is God (1 John 4:8).

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

well that seems to be reserved for those who claim to have done miracles in Jesus' Name

I'm not claiming that. are you?

do you have a big hat from which you draw a verse of scripture and then try to squeeze it into anything just to make sure you have scripture included?

again, dude, what has this got to do with the op?

doctrine

there...I spelled it for you. look it up. it could save your life

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I make claims with scriptural support for my perspective, while you make contradictory claims without any scriptural support.

not really

you make baloney sandwiches and you can't even give them away

you should not make ANY claims until you get a better grip on understanding you cannot rip a verse out of nowhere, apply it to an unrelated topic and then get all smug and tell people they might be going to hell

if we had a fantasy forum here, I would recommend it to you. the best we can do, is the conspiracy forum

try it there

you know, there are a number of people in this thread I have disagreed with, but I gotta say they at least DO include scripture that has some sort of reference to the topic at hand

 

[garee]

Very good point. The same applies to Paul's "thorn in the flesh [body]" meaning a physical disability caused by Satan

The thorn in the flesh is the resistance of obeying the commandment of God which comes from using a law of the fathers(the brood of vipers) as the things of men. It apposes walking by faith the things of God. .A clear distinction must be made.

Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

When Paul was converted rather that the word of God merely pricking his conscience as new heart, new spirit he was given as the foundation (good ground) for receiving the word of God.

Better things accompany salvation other than thorns and briers to simply prick our hearts and crucify Christ over and over,

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.Heb 6:6


God does use thorns in that way with a believer to attempt to keep them humble . .

 

[garee]

In effect what you are stating is that you do not believe in Gods Word in James 5:15 which states that the prayer of faith will save the sick. It excludes no one.

James 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

As a sign seeker you are isolating it from the context. This is not a physical sickness as that seen, but one that is spiritual not seen.. If they have sinned God will forgive them and rise up their spirit so they can repent and comfort them selves .. In that same twinkling of the eye they could pass.

There are no physical promises to those who live in a body of death. The guarantee is they will die not receipting their new body. .

 

[louis]

As a sign seeker you are isolating it from the context. This is not a physical sickness as that seen, but one that is spiritual not seen.. If they have sinned God will forgive them and rise up their spirit so they can repent and comfort them selves .. In that same twinkling of the eye they could pass.

There are no physical promises to those who live in a body of death. The guarantee is they will die not receipting their new body. .

It could very well apply to spiritual sickness that is healed, but it would also apply to physical sickness being healed. The Lord and apostles healed physical infirmities, and the Lord did say that the miracles He did and greater miracles than He did would proceed from they who believed on Him (John 14:12). As I stated in my original response on this thread; the fault lies with us, that we do not believe on Him wholeheartedly. I believe this to be due to our presently being double minded; putting faith in both God and mammon.

John 14:12 [FONT=&quot]Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.[/FONT]

 

[phil36]

I suppose that we can say yes but not yet. In the end we will all be healed from the ravages of this fallen world.

Can God heal - Yes of course and does. But God in His wisdom does not heal everyone here and now. Why, I don't know, however, our assurance is that God always does what is glorifying to Himself and to the good of His people.

I can testify that it has been in my times of illness and trials that I have grown in Christ the most, rested in Christ the most and trusted in Christ the most. We still live in a fallen body. So it will get sick and then it will die. But, \we will in the end receive new perfect bodies fit for heaven. When all tears will be wiped away.

Although we are in Christ now, and in the Kingdom of God, we await its consummation at the end of the age. That is a sure promise in Christ for He is risen!

 

[louis]

Many believe that God doesn't promise to heal everyone because of Timothy and Paul and other examples written in the bible, and let's not forget all the present day testimonies of how God failed to heal so and so after they prayed for healing, and afterwards died, but what does the bible say?

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

I know this is just one scripture, and of course there are more, but does the testimony of man trump the word of God?
Last I read, the word of God said, "let ever man be a liar, but God be true".
I also hear many say they believe the bible, only to explain away what is clearly written. And they do so because LIFE'S EXPERIENCES DICTATE differently.
So whose report will you believe, God's or man's?
And if you say God's report, then why are you fixated on the examples of those who failed to receive rather than on the promises of God like you do for salvation?
Do you have any examples in the bible of someone who failed to receive salvation after trying?
So if you don't do that with salvation, then why do you do that when it comes to the subject of healing?
Can anyone show me a PROMISE in the bible, like the ones for salvation, not an example, but a promise that is contrary to the one written above, that says healing is not for every child of God?
If you believe that, then surely you should be able to come up with a promise in scripture saying something along the lines of what many of you teach.
If your faith is based on the word of God, the bible, then someone please show me a promise written where God says, 'not all who ask shall receive their healing' or something along those lines.
I ask because, I haven't found any.

The three scriptures you cited are the Word of God. The entire bible is the Word of God, and as such we need to find how the truth therein correlates with what we know.
I am also aware and agree with what you have stated that many here try to explain away scriptures.

 

[beastslayer1970]

I hope you don't mind, but I combined both of your replies in this one post.
Jesus said He did not come to destroy the law and the prophets, but to fulfill it, and Paul said we establish the law, and part of the law is that the sins of the fathers will come on their children to the third and fourth generation.

Num 14:18 The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

That law didn't just go away because you received Christ.
And yes, you have to read into that a little to find out what it means when God says He will visit the iniquity of the fathers upon the children.
Why do you think the Jesus' disciples asked Him who sinned for the man to be in his current condition from birth, if they didn't know about the curses of the fathers coming on their children? That was why they asked.
But for this case alone, God cause this man to be born blind knowing that Jesus would exalt Him by healing him.


Agreed.

The reason why I wrote about the parable in Matt 18 is because a lack of forgiveness results in a curse, because it is a sin before God. He said if we refuse to forgive others, He will refuse to do the same to us.
So when a person refuses to forgive another, a curse is place on that person and/or their family members, and can therefore result in or be the cause of an illness of some kind.
What was John the Baptist's ministry?
Was it to baptize people?
No, it was to make the people ready for Jesus.
What did He do, and for what cause, did to make them ready?
Yes, he baptized, but that was only symbolic.
What John did was he got them to repent of their sins and confess them.
This not only prepared them to accept Jesus, because of the new condition of their hearts, but it also prepared them to receive healing and deliverance from Him.
Jesus equated healing with forgiveness by saying, "which is easier to say, thy sins be forgiven thee or to say, rise up and be healed?"
And how are we forgiven of our sins?
No it is not done for us automatically by the blood of Jesus.
We too must repent and confess our faults that we may be healed, as it is written in James 5.
So the point I was making with the parable is that when we hold a grudge against another person, refusing to forgive them, God will do the same to us as we have done to others, only it will come with a curse. And not only will God refuse to forgive us, since forgiveness is tied to healing, or one must first be forgiven to be healed, God will refuse to heal us.
Did you understand at least what I was saying?
The short of it is, no forgiveness, no healing. And in order for us to be forgiven, we must first repent of it, and then confess it. Then God is faithful and just to both cleanse and forgive us of all unrighteousness.
Now God can heal the person who stands in faith.
And I wasn't calling anyone names when I said they must be, ignorant, simple, or deceived. I was stating a fact or truth.
If I was trying to insult anyone, I would have included stupid.

I bet you also believe in generational curses, a Christian can be demonized in the spirit and all that other nonsense as well.

 

[valiant]

My wife suffers from advanced Parkinson's disease and bipolar illness. I have heard many people who have seen wonderful healings. I have sought their prayers but they have been of no avail. I have a number of books proclaiming things like 'your healing starts here'. But I have prayed long, hard and believingly for her healing and there is no answer.

Perhaps someone can tell me, and I say this reverently, how I can move God, for He seems immoveable??

 

[beastslayer1970]

My wife suffers from advanced Parkinson's disease and bipolar illness. I have heard many people who have seen wonderful healings. I have sought their prayers but they have been of no avail. I have a number of books proclaiming things like 'your healing starts here'. But I have prayed long, hard and believingly for her healing and there is no answer.

Perhaps someone can tell me how I can move God, for He seems immoveable??

Faith moves God.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

My wife suffers from advanced Parkinson's disease and bipolar illness. I have heard many people who have seen wonderful healings. I have sought their prayers but they have been of no avail. I have a number of books proclaiming things like 'your healing starts here'. But I have prayed long, hard and believingly for her healing and there is no answer.

Perhaps someone can tell me how I can move God, for He seems immoveable??

Faith moves God.

That is strange. I have prayed in real faith but it has not moved Him. Anyone more practical?

 

[beastslayer1970]

That is strange. I have prayed in real faith but it has not moved Him. Anyone more practical?

Has your faith moved into absolute trust? I walked through a very serious health issue last year. God showed me I had the faith, what he wanted was my trust, and not me placing faith into my faith, as many on this thread seem to do.

Jesus had faith in God, that he would be raised from the dead, but until Jesus fully trusted him, God was not moved.
Trust is obedience to the faith we are given a measure of.

Heb 5:7-10

[SUP]7 [/SUP]In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, [SUP]10 [/SUP]being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

That is strange. I have prayed in real faith but it has not moved Him. Anyone more practical?

Has your faith moved into absolute trust? I walked through a very serious health issue last year. God showed me I had the faith, what he wanted was my trust, and not me placing faith into my faith, as many on this thread seem to do.

Jesus had faith in God, that he would be raised from the dead, but until Jesus fully trusted him, God was not moved.
Trust is obedience to the faith we are given a measure of.

Heb 5:7-10

[SUP]7 [/SUP]In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, [SUP]10 [/SUP]being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

Yes I trusted God to heal. But He hasn't. And He has me baffled,

 

[blue_ladybug]

Don't even go there. DO NOT say (or imply) that because someone might lack enough faith or trust in God, that He won't heal them or their loved ones.. I hear that ALL THE TIME on here, on every single "does God heal" thread that comes along and it makes me wanna puke.. That people are so audacious to presume that Valiant (or anyone else) doesn't have the certain level of trust or faith that it takes for his wife to be healed absolutely makes me see red. Who is anyone here, to determine what level of faith or trust a person must have to be healed? GOD SAYS A MUSTARD SEED SIZE FAITH IS ALL IT TAKES.

Why people try to determine what God has already said is acceptable in terms of faith and trust, is beyond my scope of understanding..

Has your faith moved into absolute trust? I walked through a very serious health issue last year. God showed me I had the faith, what he wanted was my trust, and not me placing faith into my faith, as many on this thread seem to do.

Jesus had faith in God, that he would be raised from the dead, but until Jesus fully trusted him, God was not moved.
Trust is obedience to the faith we are given a measure of.

Heb 5:7-10

[SUP]7 [/SUP]In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, [SUP]10 [/SUP]being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.