Is it Always Gods Will to Heal?

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notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#41
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#41
Perhaps we could consult the scriptures. 2 Corinthians 12:7-9 Paul sought healing for an infirmity and the Lord said endure it.

Gods strength is perfected in our weakness. We draw closer to Christ when we suffer. We glorify God in the manner in which we suffer when we honor God in our suffering. Job realized this nugget of truth long ago.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#42
#42
elf3 said:
Wow! You don't get it. go back and read ladybugs post them maybe just maybe you will understand. You keep your health and wealth crap cause I am right where God wants me!
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[h=1]3 John 1:2King James Version (KJV)[/h]2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#43
#43
notuptome said:
Perhaps we could consult the scriptures. 2 Corinthians 12:7-9 Paul sought healing for an infirmity and the Lord said endure it.

Gods strength is perfected in our weakness. We draw closer to Christ when we suffer. We glorify God in the manner in which we suffer when we honor God in our suffering. Job realized this nugget of truth long ago.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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What was Paul infirmity was it spiritual or Physical ?
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#44
#44
john832 said:
???? Boy are you out in left field on that reply, I wasn't referring to eternal life as healing. You should read a little closer.
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Why is there healing in the new or the need for healing in the new ?
[h=1]Revelation 22 King James Version (KJV)[/h]22 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#45
#45
11COR.12:10.
Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions,
in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

1COR11:30.
For this reason many are weak and sick among you...

1COR.5:5.
To deliver such an one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh,
that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

11COR.12:7.
And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations,
a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of satan to buffet me,
lest I be exalted above measure.
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#46
#46
What did david Die from

[h=1]Psalm 103:1-3King James Version (KJV)[/h]103 Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2 Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#47
#47
oldthennew said:
11COR.12:10.
Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions,
in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

1COR11:30.
For this reason many are weak and sick among you...

1COR.5:5.
To deliver such an one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh,
that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

11COR.12:7.
And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations,
a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of satan to buffet me,
lest I be exalted above measure.
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Still what was it the cannanites were a thorn in Israel side

Was Paul infirmity physical or spiritual ?
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#48
#48
Exodus 15:26King James Version (KJV)

26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the Lord thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the Lord that healeth thee.
 
JimmieD

JimmieD

Senior Member
#49
Apr 11, 2014
895
18
18
#49
BenFTW said:
This may come off as strong, but it reminds me of a testimony where a guy had a blemish on his back (almost like a birth mark but large) and the Lord said to him, "Do you want that?" Like "You can keep it cause you're used to it or I can heal you."
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(1) God said all that to him? Doubtful.
(2) An anecdote doesn't negate all the other evidence. You can hardly say that the reason all people are sick is because they "are used to it." That's absurd on it's face and it's completely unfair and ingores the people who live with lifetime ailments and would love to not-be used to it. For example, if someone has Parkinson's disease, the problem isn't that they just got used to it. The problem is with cells in their central nervous system - hardly something they have control over.

Basically it was there because he grew accustomed to it, and so it seems to be the case with your health and finances. "Its fine" is your cry. Either way is fine for you, and that is your prerogative. It is also the reason why your health and finances are where they are at. I may have said that strongly, and it may offend you, but give it some thought. If its "all fine", then you wouldn't care what I just said about your health and finances.

PS: Ecclesiastes 5:19 Give it a read. :)
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What do you say to those Christians living in abject poverty and misery throughout the world? Or we only talking about Christians in the western-industrialized world? As far as I can tell, there's nothing necessarily wrong with being well-to-do, especially if you've earned it through your own work and efforts, but it's hardly warranted to say that the poor are that way because they are "fine with it." Most of the poor in the world are poor for reasons beyond their control - they don't have access to good education, they don't have access to good paying jobs, they can't finance major purchases, they spend the majorty of whatever income they have on basic necessities, they don't have access to proper sanitation, they have inadequate health, lack proper food, and they generally are not exposed to and afforded the same set of opportunities that those in the western, industrialized countries are afforded.

This isn't to say one is right or wrong for being rich or poor, but we should realize that there are people in the world, Christians included, who live in abject poverty for reasons beyond them "being fine with it." Many, if not most, of these sorts of problems in the world are systemic and beyond the control of the individuals living in poverty. Only in the western world could someone conclude that God wants everyone to be financially well off. Reality spells out something different.

Last point, Ecc 5:18-20 is about enjoying the fruits of your labor, not some inherent right or God-willed situation where everyone is assured or even afforded the opportunity to be well-to-do financially.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#50
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#50
No When Stephen stone to death, God not heal his body. He can heal him is He want. He even able to protect him if He want.

But He didn't He heal his soul and what a gain for Stephen to be physically heal. Didn't be better for him with the Lord in heaven?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#51
#51
notuptome said:
Perhaps we could consult the scriptures. 2 Corinthians 12:7-9 Paul sought healing for an infirmity and the Lord said endure it.

Gods strength is perfected in our weakness. We draw closer to Christ when we suffer. We glorify God in the manner in which we suffer when we honor God in our suffering. Job realized this nugget of truth long ago.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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true, we also know paul on one of his journeys left a close friend behind because he was ill. Here paul. Who was a great healer, could not heal his friend. It was not god's will for whatever reason.

 
J

john832

Senior Member
#52
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#52
ELECT said:


Why is there healing in the new or the need for healing in the new ?
Revelation 22 King James Version (KJV)

22 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
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Very true, but my comment was not about eternal life, it was stating the fact that if God healed EVERY infirmity, we would never die physically.
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#53
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#53
ELECT said:
Still what was it the cannanites were a thorn in Israel side

Was Paul infirmity physical or spiritual ?
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It was a physical infirmity...

Gal 4:13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
Gal 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
Gal 4:15 Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.
 
GodssSon

GodssSon

Senior Member
#54
Apr 29, 2012
1,401
10
0
#54
eternally-gratefull said:
true, we also know paul on one of his journeys left a close friend behind because he was ill. Here paul. Who was a great healer, could not heal his friend. It was not god's will for whatever reason.

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If you look at the whole context of Paul's thorn in the flesh, you can see the infirmity he speaks of isn't about sickness. He used the same terminology 'glorify in infirmities' in 2 Cor 12:9 as he did in 2 Cor 11:30, after he speaks about his infirmities, which weren't talking about sickness, but rather being stoned, receiving stripes, being shipwrecked, etc (2 Cor 11:23-29). God didn't redeem us from suffering persecution.

Also, just because he left Trophimus sick at Miletum doesn't conclude that it's not God's will to heal everyone. Even Jesus couldn't heal some in His own home town because of their unbelief (Matt 15:38). So we can't say that because Trophimus wasn't healed by another's faith, that it means God didn't want him healed. Also, it says he left him sick, not that he stayed sick. Sometimes healing takes time and isn't instantaneous. He could have very well been healed after some time. It's also possible Trophimus stopped believing and Paul had to leave him. Or a number of other possibilities. But we can't use it to say it isn't God's will to heal everyone.
 
T

The_highwayman

Guest
#55
#55
elf3 said:
Dude i reflect every day. My health sucks but that's fine with me as others can see my faith in God through my joy. My wealth sucks but that's fine because I can give God all the glory in what I do have.

My faith in God is strong because I know that without Him I wouldn't be here.

God sure does want us healthy and wealthy...but only in Him. If you take that to the physical health and wealth then maybe you should reflect on God not on you.
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So Jesus was poor and had colds...who knew
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#56
#56
john832 said:
Very true, but my comment was not about eternal life, it was stating the fact that if God healed EVERY infirmity, we would never die physically.
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i know your comment was not eternal life

I was just asking what you think of the healing in the new ?
 
T

The_highwayman

Guest
#57
#57
blue_ladybug said:
In response to the thread title's question, it is my personal belief that it is NOT always God's will for certain people to receive healing. He may use their illness as a means of making them stronger, and showing them his love for them, and even maybe to inspire others with the same illness to not give up. I believe in healing, absolutely, but I don't believe in instantaneous healing. If it WAS God's will for all people to be healed, then people such as myself, Blain and jkalyna, to name a few, would have no aches or pains whatsoever. :) This is only my opinion however.
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So the fact Jesus healed people instantly back then was OK, and it is irrelevant and does not happen now, which means Heb 13.8 is a lie!?!?

Your opinion does not line up with the word....
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#58
#58
God is in control all the time


2 Kings 13:14King James Version (KJV)

14 Now Elisha was fallen sick of his sickness whereof he died. And Joash the king of Israel came down unto him, and wept over his face, and said, O my father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof.

[h=1]2 Kings 20:1-7King James Version (KJV)[/h]20 In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And the prophet Isaiah the son of Amoz came to him, and said unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Set thine house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live.
2 Then he turned his face to the wall, and prayed unto the Lord, saying,
3 I beseech thee, O Lord, remember now how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore.
4 And it came to pass, afore Isaiah was gone out into the middle court, that the word of the Lord came to him, saying,
5 Turn again, and tell Hezekiah the captain of my people, Thus saith the Lord, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will heal thee: on the third day thou shalt go up unto the house of the Lord.
6 And I will add unto thy days fifteen years; and I will deliver thee and this city out of the hand of the king of Assyria; and I will defend this city for mine own sake, and for my servant David's sake.
7 And Isaiah said, Take a lump of figs. And they took and laid it on the boil, and he recovered.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#59
#59
GodssSon said:
If you look at the whole context of Paul's thorn in the flesh, you can see the infirmity he speaks of isn't about sickness. He used the same terminology 'glorify in infirmities' in 2 Cor 12:9 as he did in 2 Cor 11:30, after he speaks about his infirmities, which weren't talking about sickness, but rather being stoned, receiving stripes, being shipwrecked, etc (2 Cor 11:23-29). God didn't redeem us from suffering persecution.

Also, just because he left Trophimus sick at Miletum doesn't conclude that it's not God's will to heal everyone. Even Jesus couldn't heal some in His own home town because of their unbelief (Matt 15:38). So we can't say that because Trophimus wasn't healed by another's faith, that it means God didn't want him healed. Also, it says he left him sick, not that he stayed sick. Sometimes healing takes time and isn't instantaneous. He could have very well been healed after some time. It's also possible Trophimus stopped believing and Paul had to leave him. Or a number of other possibilities. But we can't use it to say it isn't God's will to heal everyone.
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sorry but pauls thorn in the flesh was physical. It was a medical condition which was not healed, no matter how often paul requested it.

God desires no one to die. But it happens, If he desired to heal everyone, then no christian would die of disease, cancer or any other illness, If anything they would just die of old age.

this is not the case.
 
T

The_highwayman

Guest
#60
#60
elf3 said:
Wow! You don't get it. go back and read ladybugs post them maybe just maybe you will understand. You keep your health and wealth crap cause I am right where God wants me!
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WOW you don't get it either....you are no where, where he wants you.

I say that because you are wearing your infirmity and lack of resources like a badge of self righteousness...and that is exactly what it is.

Stop petting and honoring your self righteousness.....you don't have to be woe and poe, everything you needed for right standing with God was done by Jesus at the cross...
 
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