Is it bad to play Jesus Culture in church?

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Dec 21, 2012
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#21
Odd....it's heretical to have 24/7 worship and prayer?
We're Christians here on Christian Chat, therefore:

Matt 7:17-20 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

The fruits:

-> Death of Christian sex-cult member exposes rapes, mind control and madness of IHOP offshoot | Red Dirt Report

"And when you learn these stories link an alleged fringe Christian sex-cult with an almost equally bizarre evangelical Christian “mission” and “college” called the International House of Prayer (aka IHOP), based in south Kansas City, Missouri, many, many questions arise. Just note The Star's new column: "A dark side to International House of Prayer's allure."

A young woman ends up dead. But why? Tales of rape, threats and religious and ritual-based mind control are all over this story. ...”
That's not what Jesus Christ said:

Matt 7:15-16Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
 

Richie_2uk

Senior Member
Sep 12, 2013
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#22
It's the move of God with the younger people.

I led worship back in the early '90's. Was the music mostly from Hosanna Integrity. Now with being older, I have a new appreciation for the older hymns. And I learned to play piano on them.

Don't quench what God is doing. It's all His work with generations. Let the people praise Him, all ages, and all cultures.
yes, like it says in the bible, Hebrews 13: 8. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. why not with music as well? its just the music is evolving modern of today's music. its still praising God through music. Why do people think new era of music is bad? some people are stuck in there old ways. we are living in modern times, so modern music is going to be part of modern times.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#24
Jesus Culture is not a band, they are a group of solo artist that comes together as one huge gathering of music. Some praise Jesus. some sing about salvation. some sings about the problems of the world. But all to give glory to God. and if thats wrong? then I think you need to maybe read your bibles more, because in it, you will see its what God want us to do Right? and whats wrong doing it through music?
As I stated in post #9, Jesus Culture is associated with Bethel Redding. At Bethel, they suggest that you ignore your Bible ("wordies") and practice "soaking" instead. Thus the irony....


-> Deliverance from Extreme Pentecostalism – A Personal Testimony of Bethel’s Influence | CrossWise

" I started engaging in what is called ‘soaking’. Soaking is a practice of opening your mind and spirit to the “lord” whilst listening to loungey “Christian” music. I gave up reading my Bible…because I wanted new revelations from God. I had heard mentioned in so many sermons (including writings by Rick Joyner) that the Bible was being superseded by new revelations. The people who only read the Bible were called “wordies” and these people (the “wordies”) were setting themselves up against the new spiritual move of “god”. The new spiritual movement was more important than the information in the Bible. So I gave my regular bible reading and embraced soaking."

 

Ecclesiastik

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2012
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#25
Folks, I never said this band was bad because it is contemporary music or that it is bad because they are praising the Lord but don't have the exact same beliefs as me. The whole problem I'm bringing up here is that the strange and outlandish beliefs of this band are no different than a Mormon or a Jehovah Witness band somehow becoming popular and starting to be played in evangelical churches. It's not an issue of small doctrinal differences or contemporary versus traditional music. It is a matter of whether or not it is irresponsible to play the music of people who practically worship a different god in your church.

If you think I'm wrong about their beliefs, feel free to defend their doctrine. But please don't just sit there like a bump on a log and insist they are not heretical because you have not personally heard any heresy in the songs they sing.

Posthuman- You did a very good job on elaborating on that for me. Thank you. I feel like since it is mostly Charismatic churches that play this group's music (and churches with a Charismatic bent), it would be safer to not play it, even if they are highly enjoyed by the congregation. My reasoning is that Charismatic churches are famous for failing to sound the alarm on heresy. That's why John MacArthur had to do his famous Strange Fire conference. Had he not, I doubt anyone else would have. Jesus Culture was actually one of the topics of the conference. I don't think it is a salvation issue for someone to continue playing JC at their church. However, I feel more and more that it is a grand mistake for them to do so.

Praus, thank you for the evidence that you have posted. I hope you guys can see my fears and that I'm not just splitting hairs.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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#26
Mat 13:31
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
Mat 13:32
Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

These birds of the air are not robins etc.

This is what happens when there is a move of God. The crazies come out too.

 
May 3, 2013
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#27
I felt you were mentioning those churches I think I know...

I thoght you were talking about playing some scenes, Jesus has perfomed, but I´m wrong. You meant playing as if the performer were HIm (and he is not Him).

Those who faked are liars.

I often tell God: If it is YOU, why being seen WHEN THOSE WANT YOU to back up what they say? Aren´t you here, each moment you think of? Do you come to be worshipped, because you are weak and NEED that HUMAN attention?

I don´t thik God is selfish. On the contrary, those who lie to get you and your money (because it is what is sought in that laying of hands).

I know GOD does miracles. What I cannot get is why in those type of miracle gatherings. :confused:

New apostleship back and suported? I don´t believe in todays´ apostles.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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#28
I need to repent of using that word crazies. It was displeasing to Holy Spirit.

There are those that are not balanced in understanding.
 

Richie_2uk

Senior Member
Sep 12, 2013
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#29
As I stated in post #9, Jesus Culture is associated with Bethel Redding. At Bethel, they suggest that you ignore your Bible ("wordies") and practice "soaking" instead. Thus the irony....


-> Deliverance from Extreme Pentecostalism – A Personal Testimony of Bethel’s Influence | CrossWise

" I started engaging in what is called ‘soaking’. Soaking is a practice of opening your mind and spirit to the “lord” whilst listening to loungey “Christian” music. I gave up reading my Bible…because I wanted new revelations from God. I had heard mentioned in so many sermons (including writings by Rick Joyner) that the Bible was being superseded by new revelations. The people who only read the Bible were called “wordies” and these people (the “wordies”) were setting themselves up against the new spiritual move of “god”. The new spiritual movement was more important than the information in the Bible. So I gave my regular bible reading and embraced soaking."

I'm Pentecostal, why would i need deliverance from it?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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#30
People need delivered into Pentecost.

Then we might be able to be one body.
 

buckets

Banned by Admin Team (verified fraud)
Dec 14, 2013
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#31
I think I get the OP he isn't saying the songs are bad but if they are sung by believers who are lead astray that could be a problem

I don't really have an opinion my father is a minister
all the music we sing is pretty much traditional
a few acceptions like "Amazing Grace" and "Hold on To God"
They are a bit newer

I do listen to a lot of bluegrass outside of church
lots of songs with good Christian values
I never thought much about the singers beliefs
but it would be different using it as worship music I suppose

We sing all our worship music sometimes acompanied with piano and or guitar
thus it would be us praising God with the words not the songs author since we don't play recorded music in worship
though not saying anyone else is wrong if they do
that is all kinda doctrine stuff :) glad I don't make those decisions
 

Ecclesiastik

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2012
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#32
People need to be delivered from extreme versions of Pentecostalism. In such where miracles and signs are emphasized more than repentance and faith.

Once again, it is the lack of discernment in many Pentecostal churches that both characterizes and caricatures them as being utterly lost and carried about with every wind of doctrine.

I say this as a Charismatic myself.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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#33
What I find difficult to understand is the OP and their pastor agree that their doctrine is heretical but they are unable to discern if they can listen their music?? :/
If you have to come on a forum and ask can I do this or that...you may also need to get your own understanding of Gods will in order
 
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Ecclesiastik

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2012
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#34
Breno, I said that my initial thought was no but I wanted to make sure that I was not mistaken. You realize that believers can sometimes be mistaken due to biases and such, right? Peter took a whole lot of knocks on his head to get him to finally accept the Gentiles. The fact that my pastor disagreed made it all the more important that I check because I respect church authority.

In the military we like to use a system called: Trust but verify. It means although I may trust someone or something, I'm going to check anyways just in case.
 
Nov 18, 2013
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#35
Once again, it is the lack of discernment in many Pentecostal churches that both characterizes and caricatures them as being utterly lost and carried about with every wind of doctrine.
I discerned this after visiting Pentecostal churches only a few times. Doctrinal deficiency is made up in psychological intensity and psychic manipulation. Amongst the worst features are the absolute refusal to heed any injunction in the bible on the silence of women in the congregation, and their requirement to keep their heads covered, arrogant and hypocritical pastors who are simply not qualified to lord it over the congregation, and money grabbing in the form of compulsory tithing.
 
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Ecclesiastik

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2012
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#36
Gjolll,

Indeed. But that is not only true in some Pentecostal churches. It is a flamboyant movement that is also present, for one example, in many African-American churches. It breaks my heart to see how many black churches I have gone to that have a distinct distaste for doctrine. To also consider how many black folk (even in my own family) who go to church on Sunday to get hyped up then just go back to their regular old sinning every other day of the week. This is one area I hope to help out with reforming, as an African-American myself.

I don't think some have an idea of how great this matter is. Jesus Culture isn't just some random band that was playing in my church that I found out to be heretical and didn't want to stop listening to so I decided to post on a forum to ask if I really am allowed to listen to them (In response to Bruno's edit on his post). Rather this is a band that has been playing in many orthodox evangelical churches (and if not in the churches themselves, often on their youth's playlists) and people open the gates not knowing what they are letting in.

When I found out about this (and that we actually play Jesus Culture music in my church), I confronted my pastor. He said he still thought it was alright but that we can talk about it further when he gets back (He was visiting the States for a wedding). So I did more research on it and the evidence was continually more and more damning. In a final effort to see if someone could justify the band or the playing of their music, I posted this article.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#37

Wanderers

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2013
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#38
I discerned this after visiting Pentecostal churches only a few times. Doctrinal deficiency is made up in psychological intensity and psychic manipulation. Amongst the worst features are the absolute refusal to heed any injunction in the bible on the silence of women in the congregation, and their requirement to keep their heads covered, arrogant and hypocritical pastors who are simply not qualified to lord it over the congregation, and money grabbing in the form of compulsory tithing.
So, are you saying that women should stay silent and wear head coverings?
 

Wanderers

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2013
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#39
zone and dcont- Thank you.

felice- Yes they are. I researched it to ensure it.

Wanderers- The Church of Jesus Christ does preach sin and repentance. The church down the street or the Evangelical Association of etc. etc. may not, but the Church does.

To say that we will find fault in any denomination is not an acceptable argument since this heresy falls within my own denomination and I, myself, strongly reject it. Are you really saying that spiritual practices are negligible? Because if I molded a golden calf and prayed to it, that in itself would be a spiritual practice.
Which church is that then?

I was speaking to someone tonight who was a part of Bethel for a year or so. There were things that went on which raised questions but healing, deliverance, repentance and salvation were all part of the package.

I suppose the reaction is somewhat the same as when the Holy Spirit fell at Pentecost and the crowd thought them drunk. We are far too quick, in my view, to lob the Holy Hand Grenade of Heresy at anyone or anything that does not fit with our view of scripture or how scripture should be applied.

There is no such thing as a perfect church and if there was we shouldn't join it because we'd ruin it.
 
Nov 18, 2013
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#40
So, are you saying that women should stay silent and wear head coverings?
Absolutely. The maintaining of the divine order, as specified in 1 Cor 11, as God over Christ over Man over Woman, is one of the most important functions of the church. Forsake the divine order, and you may as well not even bother to attend.