-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
D
Philippians 2:
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
That is the KJV, let's see if the NASB makes it a bit more clear...
5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
"The key verb is "emptied". The possession of equality took place BEFORE the emptying. "Taking" the form of a servant descrbies the means of the "emptying," as does "being made in the likeness of men." Jesus was "made in the likeness of men" at the Incarnation.
Therefore, this passage teaches the deity of Christ ("form of God"), and as well as the distinct personhood of the Son prior to the Incarnation, Just as in John 1:1 and 17:5, the text is inarguable: the Son, as the Son, is eternal.
The Logos, the Word, eternally existed as God, and was in fellowship with the Father. (John 1:1)
The Son shared glory with the Father before the world existed. (John 17:5)
Prior to the Incarnation, the Son was divine and active. (Phil 2:5-7)"
"We see, then, the meaning of the oneness of God passages in the OT: They refer to a onenesss of BEING, not oneness of PERSON
They are in "tri" and "unity."
(partial quotes from.. Dr. James White.)
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
That is the KJV, let's see if the NASB makes it a bit more clear...
5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
"The key verb is "emptied". The possession of equality took place BEFORE the emptying. "Taking" the form of a servant descrbies the means of the "emptying," as does "being made in the likeness of men." Jesus was "made in the likeness of men" at the Incarnation.
Therefore, this passage teaches the deity of Christ ("form of God"), and as well as the distinct personhood of the Son prior to the Incarnation, Just as in John 1:1 and 17:5, the text is inarguable: the Son, as the Son, is eternal.
The Logos, the Word, eternally existed as God, and was in fellowship with the Father. (John 1:1)
The Son shared glory with the Father before the world existed. (John 17:5)
Prior to the Incarnation, the Son was divine and active. (Phil 2:5-7)"
"We see, then, the meaning of the oneness of God passages in the OT: They refer to a onenesss of BEING, not oneness of PERSON
They are in "tri" and "unity."
(partial quotes from.. Dr. James White.)
I won't. I have had 1Tim4:1 quoted to me because I say we are under faith in Jesus and not law. And as I have also said Jesus is not the Father I have been told I will go to Hell for having these beliefs.
But then Jesus was told he was possessed by a demon by religous people, Steven was arrested and one of the reasons was the law, and Paul said. 'I am persecuted because I preach salvation through faith in the cross of Christ alone, if I preached circumcision(ie law) I would not be attacked.
I am learning that believing in the plain and simple statements of the Bible will often get you attacked.
But then Jesus was told he was possessed by a demon by religous people, Steven was arrested and one of the reasons was the law, and Paul said. 'I am persecuted because I preach salvation through faith in the cross of Christ alone, if I preached circumcision(ie law) I would not be attacked.
I am learning that believing in the plain and simple statements of the Bible will often get you attacked.
C
Ex. 20:3
"Thou shalt have no other Gods before Me"
That's the first commandment, there are no other Gods, there is only one.
Mark 12:29
"Hear O Israel; the LORD our God is one LORD"
Jesus says there is only one LORD.
Zech 12:10
"...They shall look upon Me (God) Whom they have pierced."
Isa. 44:6
"I am the first and the last; there is no other God beside Me"
"Thou shalt have no other Gods before Me"
That's the first commandment, there are no other Gods, there is only one.
Mark 12:29
"Hear O Israel; the LORD our God is one LORD"
Jesus says there is only one LORD.
Zech 12:10
"...They shall look upon Me (God) Whom they have pierced."
Isa. 44:6
"I am the first and the last; there is no other God beside Me"
I know the complete history from after 96 AD when John the last disciple of CHRIST wrote revelations to 300 years later when the romans led by a leader whose mother was a well known pagan and spiritual leader of her sons views formed a group of men to decipher the Bible in their own words. From this debacle, Peter became the first Pope which is an complete lie. The issue of Mary Magdalene and JESUS came up which WAS NEVER necassary and should have never been an issue. The idea of who JESUS really was as GOD or just a man was even discussed in these meetings. Now we know these first 3 are absolute false ideas but then they even formed the so-called HOLY TRINITY in these meetings which eventually has directly formed many beliefs in todays mainstream ideasm. So you have PAGANS making decisions that by which the Catholic church took and ran with and have been spreading these lies for centuries forcing ppl to believe lies including worship of Mary, you can buy your way into heaven, and pergatory while the Catholic leaders were engaged in sexual activities with young boys for 1000+ years. Basically, wicked men made decisions by which we are to believe in today.
I only belief what the Bible reveals and it CLEARLY shows that JESUS is the FATHER and the spirit of JESUS the FATHER GOD is the HOLY GHOST.
D
Mark 12:29.. Jesus quting the Shema..
Sh'ma Yis'ra'eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad....
Already went over this yesterday echad means united one.. Not one in a singular sense.. The word for singular ONE in hebrew is Yachid not echad.
Nobody is saying there is more than one God.. Not to mention God .. Elohim.. in hebrew is plural
English is not like Hebrew.. Hebrew is the Holy Language and a lot of words don't translate into other languages. For example...Sheol and Hades.. Sheol you would find in the OT and Hades you would find in the NT. Both translate to "Hell" but they both don't mean the idea of "Hell" as we know it. Sheol is the proper Hebrew word which means underworld that word is from the OT. Hades is the Greek word, but it's not equivilent.. That is just the closest word. So Hades means the grave, not under world. Hades is related to the religious philophies of Greek which is a pagan language in the first place. Keep in mind all the writers were all Hebrew writing in Greek (in the NT at least). On the other hand.. Sheol was seperated into 2 parts, the part of torment (evil wicked) and Abraham's bosom (righteous) Sheol doesn't just simply mean "grave" or "asleep" it actually means underworld. However we know that Abraham's Bosom is not there anymore the righteous are in Heaven with God.
That is just one example of how you can't correctly translate Hebrew words into pagan languages.
...Elohim Which is plural but not in the sense "Gods" more than one God. It's one God but plural as in more than one person who is God.
There is only one 'true God. John17:3 But God called Jesus God, but, still said He was Jesus God. Heb1:9. Also Jesus quoted Psalms, when he said that people were called God's to whom the message of God came.
Also in Zech14:9 it says. 'The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and His name the only name.
I think that tells us much. But if people will not accept such a clear statement of the Apostle Paul in five continuous verses,(1Cor15:24-28) I doubt they will accept anything we say.
Also in Zech14:9 it says. 'The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and His name the only name.
I think that tells us much. But if people will not accept such a clear statement of the Apostle Paul in five continuous verses,(1Cor15:24-28) I doubt they will accept anything we say.
And so, who was talking to who when God decided to make man in "their" image?
I really don't see any reason to make claims, they are inconsequential in understanding what is needed.
Why would Jesus need to intercede with Himself? Why, in Revelations, do we see a throne from which comes the bowls of wrath? Who did Jesus pray to, asking "let this cup pass from Me?"
I admit that a one godhead view is simpler, but simple is not always correct. The trinity might be difficult to understand, but so are many other things having to do with our God. I mean, why would He cause iron to swim?
I really don't see any reason to make claims, they are inconsequential in understanding what is needed.
Why would Jesus need to intercede with Himself? Why, in Revelations, do we see a throne from which comes the bowls of wrath? Who did Jesus pray to, asking "let this cup pass from Me?"
I admit that a one godhead view is simpler, but simple is not always correct. The trinity might be difficult to understand, but so are many other things having to do with our God. I mean, why would He cause iron to swim?
I find it distressing when the body of Christ is divided over things like this. " 1What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life-- 2and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us--
3what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.
4These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete."
Our joy is far from complete. Our trouble is not with what we study, but in our dependence upon our own understanding. When the written word becomes our standard, any understanding can become true in our eyes. The Spirit's place in these things is to become our teacher, to show us the things that cannot be seen with eyes in this world, to give us understanding which is not of this world. The complete gospel of the Father and the Son is contained in the above verse. With the eyes of the Spirit, we can see the reality of the Heavenly family, of which we have become essential members. The Father, in His infinite love and mercy, sent His Son into the world to make a way into the family of God the Father for us who believe, for everyone who will humble themselves before the cross of Christ and receive grace. We who were far away have been brought near because He who was with the Father was separated from Him on our behalf. He suffered separation from His Father so that we could be joined to the Father again through Him. What a wonder.
In His peace,
3what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.
4These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete."
Our joy is far from complete. Our trouble is not with what we study, but in our dependence upon our own understanding. When the written word becomes our standard, any understanding can become true in our eyes. The Spirit's place in these things is to become our teacher, to show us the things that cannot be seen with eyes in this world, to give us understanding which is not of this world. The complete gospel of the Father and the Son is contained in the above verse. With the eyes of the Spirit, we can see the reality of the Heavenly family, of which we have become essential members. The Father, in His infinite love and mercy, sent His Son into the world to make a way into the family of God the Father for us who believe, for everyone who will humble themselves before the cross of Christ and receive grace. We who were far away have been brought near because He who was with the Father was separated from Him on our behalf. He suffered separation from His Father so that we could be joined to the Father again through Him. What a wonder.
In His peace,
C
I agree with you concerning our unity, but I have a different view on the cause. The written Word is our standard. There are few things ambiguious in the Word. The problem is when scripture is twisted to mean somethng that it doesn't mean. Your description of the work of the Spirit is what I would call illumination. I agree it is essential, but even the unbeliever can discover Truth in the Word. Illumination is a great blessing and a vital part of our growth in the Word. thank you for this post.
Thank you for your words. I would only add that truth is not the end, but life is the end. One can have the truth and not have life. Jesus came not to bring us truth, but to bring us life, and that more abundantly. The scripture contains truth, and that truth is such that we can apprehend it on our own, true. But life is of and from the Spirit. And so, our standard is Jesus, by the Spirit.
C
Elohim in Hebrew refers to the multiplicity of His will, one definitely means "one", however His capabilities are unlimited, not triangular, if you multiply His will, it is infinitely faceted, eteranal multiplication, not three! When He refers to Himself in plural, it is never understood as denomination of three, that would be extremely ignorant to assume that, Clearly we can comprehend that as Scripture tells us God is One with unlimited multiple dimesional capability, I cannot put a number or a figure on how many that is.
And clearly your second statement is completely illogical and is an oxymoron.
And clearly your second statement is completely illogical and is an oxymoron.