Is Jesus God?

Vernon · Mar 27, 2014

Reply To Annata:
you have said in this thread that you believe in Jesus and you believe he is the messiah (Christ), you said that he has told us to love our neighbor. However you also say you do not want to be labeled a 'christian' (little christ), because you are offended by those who proclaim to be christians while not loving their neighbor. I understand your burden and how it sorrows you that christians refuse to walk as Jesus commanded. We are all sinners unworthy of God's love and yet he has loved us and revealed himself to us through Jesus Christ. You are a 'little christ' just as we all are who follow Jesus as Lord and Savior. We are far from his perfection, but we humbly attempt to remain faithful to our Lord.

Christ be with you always.

crossnote · Mar 27, 2014

p_rehbein said:

Now Rehbein, if you had read my earlier posts....jes kidn

Bowman · Mar 27, 2014

Syreen said:

This video represents the stone, cold ignorance called islam.

Sadly, this is the falling-down face-to-the-pavement ignorance that ignorant followers of islam continue to propagate.

In reality, the authors of the Koran loudly and proudly proclaim The Trinity and that Jesus IS God.

I pray that you study the Arabic for yourself....and see...

Annata · Mar 27, 2014

p_rehbein said:

I find this an appalling example of mob mentality, and I refuse to reiterate what I've already stated on the matter.

KSublett · Mar 27, 2014

Even in the Creation Account, Scripture defines the Spiritual ANTITHESIS to the always Pagan THESIS
The Pagan thesis is that the gods are dead heros or popular teachers: among the Jews these were connected to the Astrial gods.
The Greek influence in Jerusalem was that HERMES or ORPHEUS was the LOGOS or messenger of his father god.
Jesus REFUTES this by saying that There is One God the Father and HE is the LOGOS or the Regulative or Governing Principle.

The pagan logos was mostly Sophia which points to the gods demanding all of the performing arts and crafts to entertain the gods and keep from getting hurt by them.
The Godly LOGOS is the Opposite of Rhetoric (preacher tales or enhancements of the Word), singing, music or drama

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Genesis 1:1 In the beginning GOD created the heaven and the earth.
Genesis 1:6 And GOD SAID,
Genesis 1:9 And GOD said, Let the waters
Genesis 1:26 And GOD said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 1:27 So GOD created man in HIS own image, [/TD]
[TD]John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was GOD.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Noster For the poss. gen. of the first person: HE of whom we are speaking. In addressing a person: "OUR good friend Joe."

However, GOD made man in HIS image. Adam was a HE
Image is h6754 tselem shade, make visible

God's WORD is generated or begotten By God. Jesus was not the pagan son of a pagan god who had sex with a mortal.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, [inanis] and void;
and darkness [ignorance] was upon the face of the deep. [Pit, hell]
And the Spirit [Breath] of God moved [aggitated] upon the face of the waters. [/TD]
[TD]When God speaks He emits a WORD. The Word is God's regulative or governing principle.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; [GOD]
and without GOD was not any thing made that was made. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Genesis 1:3 And GOD SAID, Let there be LIGHT: and there was light.
God created HIS LIGHT or HIS WORD.[/TD]
[TD]John 1:4 In him [GOD] was life; and the life was the LIFE of men[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Genesis 1:4 And GOD saw the LIGHT, that it was good:[/TD]
[TD]John 1:5 And the LIGHT shineth in darkness; [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] and God divided the light from the darkness.

tĕnē^brae 1. The darkness of night, night, IGNORANCE
II. Trop., darkness, gloom, obscurity of the mind, did not Repent

lucem B. Light, encouragement, help, succor:
D. Light, illustration, elucidation: “historia testis temporum, lux veritatis

E. That which enlightens, the source of illumination: RATIO (Regulative Principle]

[/TD]
[TD] And the darkness comprehended it not.

tĕnē^brae 1. The darkness of night, night, IGNORANCE
II. Trop., darkness, gloom, obscurity of the mind, did not Repent

Skot-ios , I. of persons, in the dark, in secret, secret,

com-prĕhendo apprehend; to comprehend, comprise
A.To comprehend by the sense of sight, to perceive, observe, To comprehend something intellectually, to receive into one's mind,

Katalambanō , 3. seize with the mind, comprehend, 4. accept,
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly RECEIVED his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Genesis 1:5 And God called [addressed by name] the LIGHT Day,
and the darkness he called Night.
And the evening and the morning were the first day.[/TD]
[TD]John 1:7 The same [John] came for a witness, to bear witness of the LIGHT, that all men through him might believe.
John 1:8 He was not that LIGHT, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Genesis 1:6 And God SAID, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.[/TD]
[TD]John 1:9 That was the true LIGHT, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
God created HIS LIGHT or HIS WORD.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Annata · Mar 27, 2014

Vernon said:

Reply To Annata:
you have said in this thread that you believe in Jesus and you believe he is the messiah (Christ), you said that he has told us to love our neighbor. However you also say you do not want to be labeled a 'christian' (little christ), because you are offended by those who proclaim to be christians while not loving their neighbor. I understand your burden and how it sorrows you that christians refuse to walk as Jesus commanded. We are all sinners unworthy of God's love and yet he has loved us and revealed himself to us through Jesus Christ. You are a 'little christ' just as we all are who follow Jesus as Lord and Savior. We are far from his perfection, but we humbly attempt to remain faithful to our Lord.

Christ be with you always.

Thank you for making the effort to look through my eyes and see what I see, Vernon. I appreciate it.

VCO · Mar 27, 2014

Sophia1993 said:

Why not just take in HIS own words and believe them?

John 10:30 (ASV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] I and the Father are one.

John 14:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

John 8:58-59 (ASV)
[SUP]58 [/SUP] Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.
[SUP]59 [/SUP] They took up stones therefore to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.

Exodus 3:14 (ASV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Annata · Mar 27, 2014

VCO said:

Paul on himself and Oppolos ----- 'The one who plants (Paul) and the one who waters (Appolos) are one'

Jesus and God, like Paul and Oppollos, are singular in purpose, not singular in person.

-------

In being pursuant to the Father's interests and adherant to the Father's instructions, Jesus shows God's character, thus why ask 'show us the father', when his will and character is evident in the man in front of us?

-------

'Before Abraham was, I am' .... consider what Jesus says in the verses beforehand. He openly says "If I honor myself my honor is nothing. It is my Father who honors me, of whom you say that he is your God'' right before his statement.

the conclusion, taken with the overwhelming evidence that Jesus and God are separate, must be that Jesus was either 'preferred' over Abraham, more prominent than Abraham, or 'I am the one you were looking for when you looked at Abraham', or 'I was promised long before Abraham existed'.

Whatever the case, there is far too much evidence to the contrary for this statement to imply that Jesus is in fact God.

VCO · Mar 27, 2014

Annata said:

Paul on himself and Oppolos ----- 'The one who plants (Paul) and the one who waters (Appolos) are one'

Jesus and God, like Paul and Oppollos, are singular in purpose, not singular in person.

-------

In being pursuant to the Father's interests and adherant to the Father's instructions, Jesus shows God's character, thus why ask 'show us the father', when his will and character is evident in the man in front of us?

-------

'Before Abraham was, I am' .... consider what Jesus says in the verses beforehand. He openly says "If I honor myself my honor is nothing. It is my Father who honors me, of whom you say that he is your God'' right before his statement.

the conclusion, taken with the overwhelming evidence that Jesus and God are separate, must be that Jesus was either 'preferred' over Abraham, more prominent than Abraham, or 'I am the one you were looking for when you looked at Abraham', or 'I was promised long before Abraham existed'.

Whatever the case, there is far too much evidence to the contrary for this statement to imply that Jesus is in fact God.

And when HE proves to you that HE really meant ONE AND THE SAME GOD, where does that leave you?

Annata · Mar 27, 2014

VCO said:

If and when. If and when that happens, I'll hold my hands up, as I imagine you will if and when the contrary is proven to you. Currently, I'm convicted otherwise.

ob77 · Mar 27, 2014

Yes He is God, He and the Father are one. He is the seed of God in the flesh, and the Spirit of God. He was the seed of Adam, who was the son of God. See book of Luke chapter 3:38.

Annata · Mar 27, 2014

ob77 said:

That's a reverse parental lineage from Jesus to Adam, not proof of Jesus being the same as God.

ob77 · Mar 27, 2014

Jesus, being in the flesh, was not and could not claim to be the Father in the present form, of course, though He was one and the same living in a flesh body. While living in a flesh body, He could only do so much, being somewhat limited in His abilities. Hence He said, "where I go, you cannot come". He came from Heaven, and unless you originally came from there, you cannot return.

crossnote · Mar 27, 2014

Annata said:

Well, does God talk to himself, ask himself for mercy, pray to himself, cry out to himself, ask of himself, call himself greater than himself, praise himself, eat and drink to himself, fast for himself, call himself father and son simultaneously, look up to himself, hide 'that day and hour' from himself, and pretend not to be himself, be unable to look upon sin yet be human and look upon it, be unable to be tempted, yet be tempted?

If so, then Jesus is God.

If not, then Jesus is the son of God, while God is the father of all creation. Jesus worships God, as God looks favourably upon Jesus. Jesus eats and drinks to God, while God loves this child of his for doing so. Jesus cries out to God while God provides strength to Jesus. Jesus carries the spirit of Godliness, as God asks humanity to carry it. Jesus does work for God, as God has asked humanity to do. Jesus is one with God in purpose, as God asks humanity to be. Jesus asks the will of God, and carries it out, as God asks humanity to do. Jesus shows all God's word in his thought and action, as God asks humanity to show. Jesus pays attention and reverence to God, as God gives the teaching of compassion to Jesus.

and all without a shred of scripture...tsk tsk

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
(Isa 8:20)

Annata · Mar 27, 2014

Bowman said:

I take it you think they're ignorant?

'Do not say 'trinity': desist, it is better for you' .. Straight from the Koran.

'It does not behove God to have fathered a son' .. Straight from the Koran. Implying that the general sense of 'impregnation' is not what God did. However, the Koran does not deny that God caused Mary to have a child, nor that Jesus is the Madi.

Mary said, ‘My Lord, how can I have a son when no man has touched me.’ He said, ‘So it will be, for God creates what He wills. When He decides something, He only says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is. - Straight from the Koran.

The Koran confirms the virginal conception, confirms the uniqueness of Jesus, yet denies the idea of the trinity and the idea that Jesus is the same as God, much the same as non-trinitarian christianity.

Just thought I'd elaborate on the false things you said.

Annata · Mar 27, 2014

ob77 said:

Jesus, being in the flesh, was not and could not claim to be the Father in the present form, of course, though He was one and the same living in a flesh body. While living in a flesh body, He could only do so much, being somewhat limited in His abilities. Hence He said, "where I go, you cannot come". He came from Heaven, and unless you originally came from there, you cannot return.

Enoch didn't come from heaven, yet he 'returned'.

ob77 · Mar 27, 2014

Absolute crap.

Annata · Mar 27, 2014

crossnote said:

It's alright for you whenever you decide not to use it. Speaking 'accordingly' isn't the same as recital.

Annata · Mar 27, 2014

ob77 said:

Best argument I've heard all day

crossnote · Mar 27, 2014

Annata said:

I've given you plenty of scripture pointing to the deity of Christ. You have given me none to disprove it except your hollow logic.

Is Jesus God?

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