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I know they are...
The term 'Trinity' does NOT exist in Koranic Arabic.
'He has certainly been his Son'....is a more literal rendering of the Arabic...
The authors of the Koran copied the story from the Gospel of Luke.
Not at all.
The Arabic 100% confirms the Trinity and Jesus' deity.
Period.
Everything I stated is proven in the Arabic.
This is just the way that it is...
The term 'Trinity' does NOT exist in Koranic Arabic.
'He has certainly been his Son'....is a more literal rendering of the Arabic...
The authors of the Koran copied the story from the Gospel of Luke.
Not at all.
The Arabic 100% confirms the Trinity and Jesus' deity.
Period.
Everything I stated is proven in the Arabic.
This is just the way that it is...
Saying 'that's the way it is' might fly with the folks you preach to but I'm gonna need a little more than that.
Give me links to an external rendering of the Koran then we can talk.
Trinity denying verse - Quran Chapter An-Nisa(4), VerseNo. (171)
VIrginal Conception - Surat 'Ali `Imran [3:47] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم Surat 'Ali `Imran [3:59] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم
Non divinity of Jesus - Surat An-Nisa' [4:171] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم
Again, similar to non trinitarian chhristianity. I'm all for statements with logic, even if the aren''t referenced but you just seem to be a Muslim hater stating the contrary to the koran blindly, without any logic at all.
Give me links to an external rendering of the Koran then we can talk.
Trinity denying verse - Quran Chapter An-Nisa(4), VerseNo. (171)
VIrginal Conception - Surat 'Ali `Imran [3:47] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم Surat 'Ali `Imran [3:59] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم
Non divinity of Jesus - Surat An-Nisa' [4:171] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم
Again, similar to non trinitarian chhristianity. I'm all for statements with logic, even if the aren''t referenced but you just seem to be a Muslim hater stating the contrary to the koran blindly, without any logic at all.
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يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله
إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله
وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله
ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا
Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan
4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and they do not say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly His what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.
Observe that this ayah is directed at ‘The Book’s family’ (ahla alkitabi) – which refers to the followers of the Holy Bible; i.e. Christians.
For the Muslim, it then gives instruction as to what the correct interpretation of the Holy Bible needs to be regarding (among numerous things), the concept of the Trinity.
In this classic Islamic one-hit-wonder we are told not to refer to the one “allah” as “Three”, as even his messengers do not say “Three” - because he is not the result of counted things (thalathatun)….and yet, in the very ayah itself it lists-out directly, Father, Son, & Spirit.
This is a classic Koranic example in which the authors display their understanding of the Biblical concept of the Holy Trinity, and give the example of what it is not by the usage of the word “Three”…and what it is, by the example of “one”.
Aside from the fact that this is all an exact copy/paste from numerous websites, the translation you give is crudely doctored and doesn't exist in any way in the interpretations of the Koran, particularly the part twisted to say 'glory to Him, that he has certainly been his Son' (the final underpinning point in your next post) which actually says 'exalted is He above fathering a son'. Blatant, ignorant manipulation.
O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mar - a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.
O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mar - a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.
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4.171
يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله
إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله
وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله
ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا
Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan
4.171 You The Book's family, do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only The Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe by “allah”, and his messengers, and they do not say "Three." Refrain (it is) certainly agreeable to you, only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly His what is in the heavens and in the earth and He sufficed by “allah”, a witness.
Examining the words in question…
يكون= “yakoona”
“yakoona” definition:
Accusative case. He has been.
References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, p. 3004
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 500 -502
Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 169
ل = “la”
“la” definition:
A prefixed affirmative particle, verily, surely, certainly, indeed, truly. Prefix: an affirmative intensifying particle, used as a corroborative. A preposition denoting possession. It is also used as a preposition expressing attribution, design. Inseparable adverbial particle.
References:
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 504 - 505
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 1, p. 282
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 129
ه = “hu”
“hu” definition:
An indeclinable affixed personal or possessive pronoun of third person singular masculine; when affixed to a verb or preposition as a person pronoun, it means him or it; and when to a noun as a possessive, his or it. Singular personal or possessive pronoun. Him. Verbal suffix which expresses the accusative.
References:
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 1, p. 100
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 152
Observe that there are no negatives in this phrase at all….only the affirmative…
Thus…
له = “la” + “hu” = “lahu” = certainly his
And the final word under consideration…
ولد= “waladun”
“waladun” definition:
Noun. Singular and plural. A child, son, daughter, youngling, or young one: and children, sons, daughters, offspring, young, or younglings,: of any kind: often applied to an unborn child, etc, a fetus.
It comes from the root “walada”, which means she (a woman, or mother, or any animal having an ear, as distinguished from one having merely an ear-hole) brought forth a child, or young one; or children, young, or offspring; to beget, give birth. He begot a child, or young one, etc.
References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, pp. 2966 - 2968
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 620 - 621
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 162
Putting it all together we have….
….. “He has certainly been his Son” ….
Owned...
No.
We can back up the rendering, very easily...
يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله
إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله
وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله
ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا
Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan
4.171 You The Book's family, do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only The Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe by “allah”, and his messengers, and they do not say "Three." Refrain (it is) certainly agreeable to you, only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly His what is in the heavens and in the earth and He sufficed by “allah”, a witness.
Here is the classic definition for “innama”…
إنما = “innama”
“innama” definition:
According to the grammarians, it is a compound of “inna” and “ma”, which latter prevents the former’s having any government: it imports restriction: it imports the restriction of that which it precedes to that which follows it. In other words, it is used to particularize, or specify, or distinguish a thing from other things: it affirms a thing in relation to that which is mentioned after it, and denies it in relation to other things. Some say that it does not import restriction, but only corroboration of an affirmation, because it is a compound of the corroborative “inna” and the redundant “ma” which restrains the former from exercising government, and that it has no application to denote negation implied in restriction. It therefore seems that it is susceptible of both these meanings, bearing one or the other according as this or that suits the place. Rendered as “only”, verily.
References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 103 – 111; 118
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 1, p. 285
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, p. 35
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 11
The classic definition quite clearly states that “innama” affirms a thing in relation to that which is mentioned after it.
Thus, “alhaqqi” (i.e. The Truth), is the “thing” that is being related to Jesus – which is mentioned after it.
Hence, “The Truth is only Jesus Christ”.
No.
We can back up the rendering, very easily...
يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله
إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله
وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله
ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا
Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan
4.171 You The Book's family, do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only The Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe by “allah”, and his messengers, and they do not say "Three." Refrain (it is) certainly agreeable to you, only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly His what is in the heavens and in the earth and He sufficed by “allah”, a witness.
Here is the classic definition for “innama”…
إنما = “innama”
“innama” definition:
According to the grammarians, it is a compound of “inna” and “ma”, which latter prevents the former’s having any government: it imports restriction: it imports the restriction of that which it precedes to that which follows it. In other words, it is used to particularize, or specify, or distinguish a thing from other things: it affirms a thing in relation to that which is mentioned after it, and denies it in relation to other things. Some say that it does not import restriction, but only corroboration of an affirmation, because it is a compound of the corroborative “inna” and the redundant “ma” which restrains the former from exercising government, and that it has no application to denote negation implied in restriction. It therefore seems that it is susceptible of both these meanings, bearing one or the other according as this or that suits the place. Rendered as “only”, verily.
References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 103 – 111; 118
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 1, p. 285
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, p. 35
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 11
The classic definition quite clearly states that “innama” affirms a thing in relation to that which is mentioned after it.
Thus, “alhaqqi” (i.e. The Truth), is the “thing” that is being related to Jesus – which is mentioned after it.
Hence, “The Truth is only Jesus Christ”.
Re: Owned...
Stop lying. IT IS a copy paste from numerous websites.
https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=ct...hree”…and+what+it+is,+by+the+example+of+“one”.
Stop lying. IT IS a copy paste from numerous websites.
https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=ct...hree”…and+what+it+is,+by+the+example+of+“one”.
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Re: Owned...
Aside from the huge jump you just made - a false one - you've been proven to be a liar. Just as 'without' as the 'dogs, whoremongers, homosexuals' and muslims you so despise.
A hyppocrite up caught-out-creek without a paddle, someone who slams Islam because he thinks its followers lie to recruit and doesn't mind lying himself to prove a point.
If I were like you I'd shout 'repent, demon lover', but I'm not.
But seriously, check yourself man. Deliberately lying to slate a billion people.
Aside from the huge jump you just made - a false one - you've been proven to be a liar. Just as 'without' as the 'dogs, whoremongers, homosexuals' and muslims you so despise.
A hyppocrite up caught-out-creek without a paddle, someone who slams Islam because he thinks its followers lie to recruit and doesn't mind lying himself to prove a point.
If I were like you I'd shout 'repent, demon lover', but I'm not.
But seriously, check yourself man. Deliberately lying to slate a billion people.
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Or did GOD snatch him out of his time and place him at in the time of the End as one of the Two Witnesses that leads the remaining Jews whose names are written in the Book Life, to recognize Jesus as their Messiah.
Hebrews 9:27 (HCSB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And just as it is appointed for people to die once—and after this, judgment—
Genesis 5:24 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Enoch walked with God; then he was not there because God took him.
2 Kings 2:11-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire with horses of fire suddenly appeared and separated the two of them. Then Elijah went up into heaven in the whirlwind.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] As Elisha watched, he kept crying out, “My father, my father, the chariots and horsemen of Israel!” Then he never saw Elijah again. He took hold of his own clothes and tore them into two pieces.
The only exception to that rule of being appointed to die once, that I see is:
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel’s voice, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord.
If Enoch and Elijah are the Two Witnesses of REVELATION, they will die in the streets of Jerusalem at the hands of the Antichrist.
You see, I believe GOD is not only Omnipresent is every cubit inch of heaven and the universe, but also Omnipresent in every second of time at the same time. He is not a created being traveling through time, but literally the Creator of Time as we know it. He declares the End from the Beginning because HE is Omnipresent in all TIME. HE chose before foundation of the Earth those who are choosing HIM as LORD, which means MASTER.