Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?

Eccl12and13 · Nov 25, 2012

Readers......this is a simple OP.

Either God lied when He said that keeping His laws are needed for eternal life or He did not.

Let's read it once more......

Matt.19
[16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

And now let's read the answer from the one that will judge all of mankind....

[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

And to confirm......

Rev.22
[14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

It's just that simple. Is having faith needed? Of course! Is faith the ONLY thing needed for eternal life?

According to Jesus....keeping God's laws is also a requirement.

Readers...you can believe in God's word or you do not have to. Just as in keeping God's laws....you have a choice!

.

loveme1 · Nov 25, 2012

I think what must always be in mind and teaching is that through Yahshua the Messiah we are given a New Spirit that guides and comforts us.

Through Faith in Yahshua the Messiah are we able to do this.

It is vital for this always to be known, because without the Commandments being written on our hearts through inward circumcision we will fail.

One must be born of the Holy Spirit through Faith it is given.

RickShafer · Nov 25, 2012

It's just that simple. Is having faith needed? Of course! Is faith the ONLY thing needed for eternal life?
According to Jesus....keeping God's laws is also a requirement.
Readers...you can believe in God's word or you do not have to. Just as in keeping God's laws....you have a choice!

The OP never mentions the only commandments Jesus spelled out.
What are they?
1. To Love the Lord your God with everything you are.(Body ,soul, spirit) - Lk10:27;Mtt.22:37; Mk.12:30
2. And Love your neighbor as yourself. - Mtt.22:39; Mk.12:31

How can one do this?
Under his own power? Or by the indwelling of the Spirit?
Keep reading OP; they were never able to do it.
But the Father sent a comforter(Holy Spirit); which stuck closer to them than a brother.(John 17)
Paracleate:Para(beside) cleate(cleave to).
Slightly more internal now.
More at thoughts instead of actions.
Jesus said if you think on one with lust in your heart, you have committed adultery already. - Mtt. 5:28

See how the law is now made inward?
So the perfect sacrifice becomes all the more important.
Legalist's never go to this length, because they know they can't keep it.
Legalist's reside on the chalkboard of the school master.
Because it is easier to pass a test in school (on paper), than it is
actually living it.
It is easier to draw up the plans for a bridge(all angles and substances mathematically correct);
than it is to actually build it.
Jesus came that we might have the ability(through) him to build it;
and not just sit at a desk, passing a written test.
The Law is the schoolmaster.
Those in Christ have graduated and are building His body.

Abiding · Nov 25, 2012

Titus 3:
5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Mt 19:[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Both are true and Galatians 3 explains how.

I think it might be more profitable to unpack the meaning of Faith in Jesus.
Than it will by talking about law keeping.

Faith in Jesus will gain eternal life and fulfil the law.
Whereas lawkeeping will get you nowhere.

haz · Nov 25, 2012

Eccl12and13 said:

And what did that man say to Jesus in Matt 19?
Matt 19: 20,21

The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

This is what the thief on the cross did. He followed Jesus and became perfect. And without any obedience to the law he was saved. It was grace alone. He was justified by faith without works of the law.

And how did that thief become perfect? Note how it had nothing to do with him keeping the law (10 commandments).

Heb 10:14

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Eccl12and13 said:

As you admit you do not keep the commandments yourself why do you condemn others for not keeping the commandments?
And why do you constantly fail to acknowledge that your contradicting yourself here? You avoid answering our questions about your contradictions. This is only discrediting your doctrine further and further.

Eccl12and13 said:

James 2:10 clearly shows that to offend in one point makes you guilty of all the law. Without any doubt this clearly shows that perfect obedience is required for keeping the law. How can you not accept that just one offense being too excessive is not the same as perfect obedience?

And note it refers to those under the law to keep it.
But Christians are not under the law for righteousness, (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 5:18). Our righteousness is by faith instead.

But Christ did keep the law. And God sees Christ in us, Gal 2:20, Col 3:3. The thief on the cross did not obey the commandment's, but in spite of this God saw Christ in him (and it was Christ who did keep the commandments perfectly)

Mediate · Nov 25, 2012

Everyone is scrambling round trying to get into heaven 'should I do this should I do that'

There is not one person that has the power to get themselves into heaven. its already done. If Jesus died for the sins of all men then what requirement is there for ones sins to be 'uncovered'? That we sin?? But we all sin. It is a bit silly to say 'yes Jesus died for all men, except the ones who don't believe in this doctrine or that doctrine'

I can tell you, Jesus will bring ALL unto him.

So then do what is beneficial, because it is beneficial.

This earth is all we have, and the people in it. How can I make someone's life a little better?

Eccl12and13 · Nov 25, 2012

RickShafer said:

Even though God tells us in Rev.22 that it will also be the following that will not enter into His kingdom;

Rev.22
[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

And even though Paul tells us the following;

1 Cor.6
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal.5
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Even though we KNOW for a fact that those that continue to commit the above sins will not enter into God's kingdom.......let's just consider what you suggest above. Let's say that the ONLY commandments one must keep is loving God with everything you are and to love your neighbor as yourself.

If one does not keep these 2 laws and continues NOT to keep them until their death......will they be allowed to enter into God's kingdom?

Let's also consider the following. Once God tells us to do something or not to do something....at that moment it becomes a command...it is a law. And since faith IS something we must have....that TOO is a law. If we do not have faith as God instructs we are STILL breaking a law....we are STILL not keeping a commandment of God....we are STILL committing sin if we do not have faith.

Readers.....no matter how you want to look at it......

Obeying God and keeping His commandments IS a requirement for entrance into His kingdom.

.

haz · Nov 25, 2012

Eccl12and13 said:

Then why do you yourself still disobey the commandments and preach that perfect obedience is not required? You contradict yourself.

To be under the law/10 commandments requires perfect obedience (James 2:10), yet you preach against such obedience whilst condemning people for disobedience.

Can you please explain these obvious contradictions you preach?

Eccl12and13 · Nov 26, 2012

haz said:

Readers........ Let's consider this, not ONE place in ALL of God's word can you find where God tells us that we MUST keep ALL of His laws perfectly. NOT ONCE!

But all of a sudden we are given this revelation in the book of James that keeping God's laws perfectly is a requirement? Does that make any sense?

Let's read AGAIN what James tells us.

James 10
[8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
[9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

Readers.....how can anyone equate the above explanation to mean that ALL of God's laws must be kept perfectly?

All James is saying is that if you break ANY of God's laws it is as though you have broken any of God's other laws. In other words...what James is trying to get us to understand is that to God breaking ANY of His laws is the same; a sin, is a sin, is a sin.

If you do not lie but you covet you are yet a sinner.
If you do not have respect of persons but you lie you are a sinner.
If you do not covet but you fornicate you are a sinner.
If you do not worship idols but you disrespect your parents you are a sinner.
If you do not kill but you covet you are a sinner.

Now.....James could have gone on and on and on through ALL of God's laws but that have taken a very long time. So what did James plainly say instead? Let's read it below.....

[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

So what is James saying here? Is James in the above statement saying that we MUST keep all of God laws perfectly? Is this what he explains in his next verse? Let's read it.....

[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

So.... James tells us the same one that gave the law of not to commit adultery is also the same one that gave us the law of not to kill. And as we know BOTH of these laws, if broken, is SIN. He then goes on to say.....if that same person that does NOT commit adultery, turns around and kills someone he has still committed a sin. So even though the person did not commit adultery, but instead killed, then they have still SINNED! This is the SAME as what he said in verse 8 and 9 above; If you love your neighbor but still have respect of persons you are still committing a sin.

Now how can anyone get the above to mean that what God is really saying is that you must keep ALL of His laws perfectly?

Readers.... As I said.....not ONCE in all of God's word can you find that God commands that His laws MUST be kept perfectly. You will find throughout His word that He tells man to keep His laws....but not ONCE does He ever say we must keep them perfectly. God NEVER said it....and James NEVER suggested it.

Now....do I break God's laws? Yes. We ALL break God's laws. Sometimes inadvertently, while other times it may very well be deliberately. And it is for this very reason we have been commanded to ask for forgiveness each time we pray. Does God want us to break His laws? Of course not. Will He forgive us.....well sort of.....BUT....do you believe God will continue to forgive DELIBERATE SIN? Is that a chance you are willing to take? Let's read what God has to say about willful sin;

Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

So.....if you believe that God forgives ALL sins; past, present, future AND deliberate....that is taking a very big chance....in light of all of the scriptures we have.

Readers..... Jesus came to remove that curse of the law. Which law? The Law that God had that says that the wages of sin is death. THAT LAW! And now that Christ shed His blood and removed the curse of the law mentioned....do we continue to break God's other laws?

Let's read AGAIN what happens to those that continue to break God's laws;

1 Cor.6
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal.5
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Rev.22
[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Readers.... if you do not believe that keeping God's laws, for both sinners AND saints, is a requirement for entrance into God's kingdom...you have been deceived!

.

psychomom · Nov 26, 2012

Why did Jesus come?
What did He do?
What did He accomplish through His death, burial, and resurrection?

How did He accomplish these things?

psychomom · Nov 26, 2012

Also...what is a covenant?
What does that mean?

With whom did God establish the Mosaic (old) covenant?
What were the terms of it?
How was it to be kept?

With whom does God establish the new covenant?
What are its terms?
How is it to be kept?

zone · Nov 26, 2012

Eccl12and13 said:

yep.
if you manage to build a time machine so you can go back before you committed your first sin, that's a start.
good luck with all that.

Mediate · Nov 26, 2012

ze point of ze teachings of ze saviour, is so ze people who read it benefit from ze way of life, so ze sins no longer carry ze earthly conseguence. But ze thing is, we haz already been given ze entry into heaven, it is ze kingdom of God wissin us zat we must cultivate for ze sake of our fellow man.

see?

But yes, if you can and will and want, zen follow ze commandments of God.

But it izz better if ze things are done wiss a wanting heart, rather than a pharasaic outwardly adherance wiss outward judgement. ze laws are choice for a man. everyzing is choice for ze man.

But not everysing is beneficial for ze man.

See?

(Funny half hour)

zone · Nov 26, 2012

psychomom said:

hi psychomom!

Hebrews 9:16-17
"For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth"

a will is not in force until the death of the testator.
if he makes a new will, however, before he dies, it is the new will which is binding.

so the first has no legal force at all.

Romans says someone who wants to be under two covenants is like a woman who has two living husbands - an adulteress.

Romans 7:4
"Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead"

simple enough, ya?
love zone.

haz · Nov 26, 2012

Eccl12and13 said:

Hi Eccl 12and13,

You seem to be missing my point. You are the one preaching that the law must be kept or else your lost.
I'm pointing out what is required for those who seek to be under the law like you seem to be.

Read James 2:10 again,
"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

This clearly describes what type of obedience is required under the law. Perfect obedience. To offend in "one point" is one too many offenses.
To offend in one point makes you guilty of all the law, resulting in a death penalty. That is what the law required.

As you are preaching obedience to the law is required for salvation then why do you try to change the obvious, clear meaning in God's word of what is required under the law?

Eccl12and13 said:

Your doctrine speaks in very vague and contradictory terms.

You speak of God's forgiveness, claiming that He only forgives transgressions of the law up till a limited point.
Yet when Jesus was asked how often we should forgive one another he answered 7x70.
Are you saying that we are more forgiving than God is?

And you misunderstand Heb 10:26. It speaks about those who say that the keeping the law is required for salvation.
To sin is transgression of the law, 1John 3:4

But Christians are not under the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9). Who shall law anything(even transgressions of the law) to the charge of God's elect?. It is God that justifies. Rom 8:33

So how can a Christian "sin"?
If they go back under the law. Any Christian who turns back to the law makes themselves a transgressor/sinner, Gal 2:18.

So Heb 10:26 speaks about Christians (saved by grace/having the knowledge of the truth) who turn back to the law. They therefore make themselves transgressors/sinners as they cannot keep it perfectly. To continue under the law is willful sin because they are no longer covered by Christ as they are in unbelief working their own righteousness but failing.
They know that Christ sets us free from sin and that salvation is by grace but they choose to rebel against God and be under the law, thus being found a transgressor. This is clearly willful sin.

Eccl12and13 · Nov 26, 2012

haz said:

Ok......let's go with that.

And now that Jesus came and died.....has the death penalty for ALL of mankind been removed?

Please consider very carefully what I am asking;

Jesus came and made it possible for us NOT to come under what was required by the law; DEATH....but will ALL of mankind be spared the penalty of death for committing sins?

Will EVERYONE be allowed into God's kingdom because Jesus came, died and shed His blood?

If your answer is YES....we have nothing further to talk about!

But if your answer is NO! Then what is it that will cause some to enter into God's kingdom, while others will be denied? According to God's word what will be the deciding factor?

.

Eccl12and13 · Nov 26, 2012

haz said:

Just because you keep stating this does not make it true. The above does NOT say that God requires perfect obedience to His laws.

All it says is that breaking any one of God's laws is the same as break any of the rest of them. This in no way implies perfect obedience.

Even without explanation, which James gave us, it only says if you break one of God's laws you break them all.

Do me a favor.....point to the exact point where the above states that one must keep God's laws perfectly!

.

psychomom · Nov 26, 2012

zone said:

hi psychomom!

Hebrews 9:16-17
"For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth"

a will is not in force until the death of the testator.
if he makes a new will, however, before he dies, it is the new will which is binding.

so the first has no legal force at all.

Romans says someone who wants to be under two covenants is like a woman who has two living husbands - an adulteress.

Romans 7:4
"Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead"

simple enough, ya?
love zone.

Hey there zone!

I knew I was in for a treat when I saw the caliber people who so warmly greeted you.

And yes, beautifully, graciously simple.

-ellie

Eccl12and13 · Nov 26, 2012

zone said:

And what was in the new agreement? Was there anything that was in the old agreement that was not in the new agreement?

What we must understand is what was broken was the AGREEMENT! In the first agreement there were laws. If those laws were broken the result would be death.

In the second agreement there were ALSO laws. And if those laws are broken the result is STILL death.

Let's confirm;

1 Cor.6
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal.5
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Rev.22
[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Now even though Jesus made a new agreement we find above that the same components of the first agreement are still included in the new agreement; God's laws and the breaking of them resulting in death are in BOTH agreements.

In BOTH of God's covenants there are laws.
In BOTH of God's covenants the penalty for breaking those laws is death.

.

schoolofyoungprophet · Nov 26, 2012

Nothing in my hands i bring,simply to the cross i cling,i love this song,i beleive if we are saved to obey his commandment becomes our life not cuz we have to but with zeal that burns with in.

Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?

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