Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?

[Eccl12and13]

1. John said he removed the sins of the world. not just those set apart.
2. Scripture says Jesus made propitiation for our (those born again) sins, but not onloy ours, the sin of the whole world.

your right. nothing, so why are you adding to what Christ did in order to perfect and not lose ones salvation God gave freely to all who call on his name?

Out of all that I quoted...the above is all you had to respond to? Well....let's go over what scripture tells us. Let's find if I am making up scripture;

Heb.10
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Above God's word tells us that we are 'set apart' by the blood of Jesus.

[12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

And God's word above says the same thing. Is ALL of mankind sanctified or, set apart? No!

And although Jesus came to remove the sins of the whole world, will the 'whole world' receive salvation? Will the 'whole world' receive eternal life?



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[Eccl12and13]

So adam was not saved? David was not saved even though he was called a friend of God. Wow, some people need to study.

How does scripture teach abraham was saved? Abraham BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS ACCREDITED TO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

funny, they are saved the same way we are. by faith in Gods promises.

As I have always asked....Is the ONLY thing needed for salvation, being saved from the second death, is faith in Jesus Christ?

Although Davis was called a friend of God and Abraham's faith was accredited to him for righteousness, they BOTH were yet sinners. They BOTH needed to have their sins forgiven. Let's read what is the ONLY thing that remove sin;

Heb.9
[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

The blood of bulls and goats could not permanently remove sin. So who came to save them with the shedding of His blood?

Heb.9
[11] But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
[12] Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
[15] And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Did not Christ come to die for Abraham and David as well as ALL of mankind?

Could Abraham and David have salvation WITHOUT the shedding of Christ blood?


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[Eccl12and13]

Now that we have heard from (2), let's hear from others reading this post;

1. When was eternal life loss for all of mankind?

2. What action caused eternal to be loss for all of mankind?

3. Why was it necessary for Jesus to come and shed His blood?


I see over 500 have read and are somewhat interested....let's hear some of those views.




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[eternally-gratefull]

Out of all that I quoted...the above is all you had to respond to? Well....let's go over what scripture tells us. Let's find if I am making up scripture;

Heb.10
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Above God's word tells us that we are 'set apart' by the blood of Jesus.

Yes, and? No one is arging that, This is not what your teaching at all.

[12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

And God's word above says the same thing. Is ALL of mankind sanctified or, set apart? No!

1. I never said all men are sanctified. I said that Christ did for the sin of all mankind. We still have one sin Christ did not die for.
2. That passage also supports my view, and does not support your. so whats your point?

And although Jesus came to remove the sins of the whole world, will the 'whole world' receive salvation? Will the 'whole world' receive eternal life?
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Again, I never said they would

Since Jesus came to remove the sin of the world. and all who are born of him have all there sin removed. How could they ever lose salvation. why are they still bound by the law when Christ took the penalty of the law and nailed it to the cross. (col)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As I have always asked....Is the ONLY thing needed for salvation, being saved from the second death, is faith in Jesus Christ?

Lets look at all the verses you posted which said Jesus paid the penalty for sin, Even if one believed as you do he only paid for the sin of those set apart. If jesus paid it all, and he is offering the gift to all who believe, then how could anythign but faith save us?

Although Davis was called a friend of God and Abraham's faith was accredited to him for righteousness, they BOTH were yet sinners. They BOTH needed to have their sins forgiven. Let's read what is the ONLY thing that remove sin;

Heb.9
[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

The blood of bulls and goats could not permanently remove sin. So who came to save them with the shedding of His blood?

Heb.9
[11] But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
[12] Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
[15] And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Did not Christ come to die for Abraham and David as well as ALL of mankind?

Could Abraham and David have salvation WITHOUT the shedding of Christ blood?


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no. You again prove MY POINT. So why are you demanding we obay the law when Christ died 2000 years ago. Is God coing to come and die again for sins he did not forget because of our faith?

do you listen to yourself? All your arguments support our view. You fighting yourself

 

[Eccl12and13]

Since Jesus came to remove the sin of the world. and all who are born of him have all there sin removed. How could they ever lose salvation.

[/B][/COLOR]

My question was; When did man FIRST lose his salvation, thus causing Jesus to have to die for ALL of mankind.

If salvation was not lost, there would not have been a need for Jesus to come and save.



Did not Christ come to die for Abraham and David as well as ALL of mankind?

Could Abraham and David have salvation WITHOUT the shedding of Christ blood?


At this point I am asking NOTHING about God's laws.
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[eternally-gratefull]

My question was; When did man FIRST lose his salvation, thus causing Jesus to have to die for ALL of mankind.

If salvation was not lost, there would not have been a need for Jesus to come and save.

Again. Salvation was not lost. Saying salvation was lost is the same is saying man needed to be saved before the fall. This is not the case.

The reason Jesus had to come, because man went from perfect alive to God under his own merit, to lost with no hope.


Gods laws are the subject of this thread, and you have been saying they are required. so make up your mind.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Again. Salvation was not lost. Saying salvation was lost is the same is saying man needed to be saved before the fall. This is not the case.

Would Abraham, David or any saints have salvation WITHOUT the shedding of Christ blood?

Pretty simple question. What say ye?



To those reading this post...while we are waiting on an answer to the above....let's read what God's word tells us;

Matt.24
[13] But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 16
[16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

John3
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 10
[9] I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Acts 2
[21] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 4
[12] Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Rom.5
[9] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Heb.9
[28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


YOU keep saying;

Salvation was not lost.

But over and over and over again, God's word keeps telling us that we must be saved. What is it we must be saved from?

How can something that was not lost need saving?


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[Eccl12and13]

Come on you guys...over 600 have read this post. Someone is interested in what is being said here. Tell me...what are your views?



Did mankind loose something when Adam sinned?

Was there something that was no longer available to mankind when God's law was broken?

Was there a need to have something restored to all of mankind?



I already know the views of some. Tell me......what do you think readers?



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[eternally-gratefull]

Would Abraham, David or any saints have salvation WITHOUT the shedding of Christ blood?

Pretty simple question. What say ye?

What do abraham and david have to do with what happened to Adam. Abraham and david were born dead to God, Adam was created perfect and sinless. thus did not need a savior.

But over and over and over again, God's word keeps telling us that we must be saved. What is it we must be saved from?

How can something that was not lost need saving?
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Adam did not need saved before he sinned.

I was born dead to God because of adams sin, which was passed to me. I did not lose salvation. I never had it. I was lost before I commited my first sin.

your points make no sense. as to what your trying to teach about law.

 

[babyboyblue]

What's crazy about this thread is all of you going back and forth believe the same thing, except each of you are focused in an area that is neither here nor there.

I know all of you believe the only way to Heaven is through Christ Jesus.
I know all of you believe all have sinned and that sin is breaking the commandments of God
I know all of you believe if we sin we have an advocate in Heaven that we can go to
I know all of you believe that obedience to God is key

You guys are all saying the same thing but in a different way. One says obey Jesus and another says obey the commandments. Jesus is the embodiment of the Law, so to obey Him is to Obey the Law. Let's stop looking at the 10 commandments and put our eyes on Jesus for He and He alone;

Has a Heaven to put us
Can present us to the Father
Can cleanse us from All unrighteousness
Can make us Holy

If we fall in love with The Savior of the World, Jesus The Christ, we will do as He said. No longer will we;

Have other gods
Worship idol images
Take His Name in vain
Keep Holy HIS day
Honor our parents
Not kill each other
Not commit adultery
Not steal
Not bear false witness
Not covet

The only way we can show God that we love Him is to obey.

 

[newcovenantchristian]

Let's stop loking at the Ten Commandments and put our eyes on Jesus for vHe and He alone;[/b]
Has a Heaven to put us
Can present us to the Father
Can cleanse us from All unrighteousness
Can make us Holy

If we fall in love with The Savior of the World, Jesus The Christ, we will do as He said. No longer will we;

Have other gods
Worship idol images
Take His Name in vain
Keep Holy HIS day
Honor our parents
Not kill each other
Not commit adultery
Not steal
Not bear false witness
Not covet

The only way we can show God that we love Him is to obey.

Hallelujah
Let's stop looking at the Ten Commandments and put our eyes on Jesus

Maybe some trust themselves more than they do Jesus

 

[newcovenantchristian]

Come on you guys...over 600 have read this post. Someone is interested in what is being said here. Tell me...what are your views?



Did mankind loose something when Adam sinned?

Was there something that was no longer available to mankind when God's law was broken?

Was there a need to have something restored to all of mankind?



I already know the views of some. Tell me......what do you think readers?




.

I think everyones on tenderhooks waiting for you to give them the correct answers, come on, they're your brothers and sisters in Christ, tell 'em

 

[newcovenantchristian]

So my brothers you also died to the law through th body of Christ so that you might belong to another, to him who was raised froim the dead in order that we might bear fruit for God
For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies so that we bore fruit for death
But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released friom the law so that we serve in the new way of the spirit and not the old way OF THE WRITTEN CODE
Rom 7:4-6

I guess you believe Paul is just speaking of animal sacrifices there
Not sure how the sinful desires in us are aroused by animal sacrifices, but I am confident of your answer

Any chance of you answering this?
How are the sinful passions in us aroused by animal sacrifices?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Any chance of you answering this?
How are the sinful passions in us aroused by animal sacrifices?

Paul is not speaking of animal sacrifice. he is speaking of the commands. It is like your parent which says no, leads to temptation, because you wonder why they said no, what are they holding back, or your not getting your way, or whatever.

 

[newcovenantchristian]

Paul is not speaking of animal sacrifice. he is speaking of the commands. It is like your parent which says no, leads to temptation, because you wonder why they said no, what are they holding back, or your not getting your way, or whatever.

I agree, but the author of the thead keeps insisting that only burnt offerings have been done away with, all the other possible laws remain in place. Therefore, as Paul is saying we die to the law, where the sinful passions in us are aroused so that we can live for God, and the author believes this can only mean burnt offerings, it is then correct question to ask him
'How are the sinful passions in us aroused by burnt offerings? if you see what I mean. Unfortunately he seems reluctant to respond to the question

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree, but the author of the thead keeps insisting that only burnt offerings have been done away with, all the other possible laws remain in place. Therefore, as Paul is saying we die to the law, where the sinful passions in us are aroused so that we can live for God, and the author believes this can only mean burnt offerings, it is then correct question to ask him
'How are the sinful passions in us aroused by burnt offerings? if you see what I mean. Unfortunately he seems reluctant to respond to the question

of course he does. To much scripture shows it is not just burnt offerings, it is work of any kind, of the law, or just our own good deeds. Nothing can save us. But the blood of Christ. When your argument is week, you are backed into a corner easily, as he is.

 

[Eccl12and13]

So adam was not saved? David was not saved even though he was called a friend of God. Wow, some people need to study.

How does scripture teach abraham was saved? Abraham BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS ACCREDITED TO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Adam was created perfect and sinless. thus did not need a savior.

Although David was called a friend of God and although Abraham's faith was accredited to him for righteousness, BOTH of these men sinned. Even before they were born the curse of sin was passed on to them by the actions of one man; Adam. Because of the actions of Adam, that being the breaking of God's laws, ALL on mankind needed a savior.

So again.....My question is simple;

Would Abraham, David, any saints or ALL of mankind have the chance of salvation WITHOUT the shedding of Christ blood?

The answer is either yes they would have had a chance of salvation without the shedding of Christ blood...

or,

No they would not have had a chance of salvation without the shedding of Christ blood.

What say ye?

Also....you quoted above the following;

[

Adam was created perfect and sinless. thus did not need a savior.

Are you saying that ALL but Adam needed a savior? And if so....what did all need saving from?

And though you are correct in saying that Adam was born sinless, the fact remains that Adam did break a law of God and became a sinner.


.

 

[newcovenantchristian]

Can I ask what this means?

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time declares th Lord
I will put my laws in their hearts and write them on their minds
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more
Heb 10:16&17

Is this covenannt in place yet?
If it isn't how many covenants ar there?

If it is in place I'm confused.
We seem to have two sets of laws now, the ones writtten on our hearts and the literal laws, what's the diffence?
And which ones are on our hearts and which ones aren't?
And the last verse says
There sins and lawless acts I will remeber no more
What does that mean, bearing in mind you believe Jesus only died for the sins committed before we are saved

#And please could you answer my question as to how the sinful passions in us are aroused by burnt offerings

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Although David was called a friend of God and although Abraham's faith was accredited to him for righteousness, BOTH of these men sinned. Even before they were born the curse of sin was passed on to them by the actions of one man; Adam. Because of the actions of Adam, that being the breaking of God's laws, ALL on mankind needed a savior.

So again.....My question is simple;

Would Abraham, David, any saints or ALL of mankind have the chance of salvation WITHOUT the shedding of Christ blood?

The answer is either yes they would have had a chance of salvation without the shedding of Christ blood...

Dude if your going to repeat what I have been saying all along and then ask a silly question, why bother going on?

or,

No they would not have had a chance of salvation without the shedding of Christ blood.

What say ye?

You question was what got mankind to lose salvation. That was wht my answer concerns. mankind started with adam NOT Abraham and david, your going in circles and making yourself look silly!

Also....you quoted above the following;

Are you saying that ALL but Adam needed a savior? And if so....what did all need saving from?

And though you are correct in saying that Adam was born sinless, the fact remains that Adam did break a law of God and became a sinner.


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No the fact is you said Adam LOST salvation, he did not lose salvation. he did nto have the need to be saved before he sinned. He was right with God until that time.

again your going in circles.