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E
Yet another scripture you continue to use. Did Paul EVER say that faith is ALL that is needed for righteousness?
And what must we do to receive faith? God's word tells us there are MORE that one thing that is needed BEFORE faith is gained!
And here you ask,
Do you know which Law it is Paul speaks of here? What would the death of Christ have to do with the law of Do not kill, steal or lie? Nothing! The ONLY law that had something to do with the death of Christ was the law of animal sacrifice....when Christ died that law, and that law ONLY was done away with.
But you know this....
.
And what must we do to receive faith? God's word tells us there are MORE that one thing that is needed BEFORE faith is gained!
And here you ask,
Do you know which Law it is Paul speaks of here? What would the death of Christ have to do with the law of Do not kill, steal or lie? Nothing! The ONLY law that had something to do with the death of Christ was the law of animal sacrifice....when Christ died that law, and that law ONLY was done away with.
But you know this....
.
E
That's a hard one to say. I would hope that I would every now and then...but I do not concern myself with wondering if I sinned today. Each night..or day...or anytime in between, I ask God to forgive any sins I may have committed.
It's not the sins that I do not know I commit that concerns me. It's those sins that I did willfully that God will judge me on;
Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Those are the sins ALL will be judged on!
.
It's not the sins that I do not know I commit that concerns me. It's those sins that I did willfully that God will judge me on;
Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Those are the sins ALL will be judged on!
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So my brothers you also died to the law through th body of Christ so that you might belong to another, to him who was raised froim the dead in order that we might bear fruit for God
For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies so that we bore fruit for death
But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released friom the law so that we serve in the new way of the spirit and not the old way OF THE WRITTEN CODE
Rom 7:4-6
I guess you believe Paul is just speaking of animal sacrifices there
Not sure how the sinful desires in us are aroused by animal sacrifices, but I am confident of your answer
For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies so that we bore fruit for death
But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released friom the law so that we serve in the new way of the spirit and not the old way OF THE WRITTEN CODE
Rom 7:4-6
I guess you believe Paul is just speaking of animal sacrifices there
Not sure how the sinful desires in us are aroused by animal sacrifices, but I am confident of your answer
E
Ok.......now that we have had some time to think about this and give some replies, let's ask some basic questions;
1. When was eternal life loss for all of mankind?
2. What caused eternal to be loss for all of mankind?
Now the answer to these two questions is simple. They can be found quite easily within the bible. But more importantly......there is not MORE than one answer.
There was only ONE time that eternal life was loss for all of mankind!
And there was only ONE action that caused it!
Let's study God's word so that we can come up with a biblical answer....not an emotional one.
.
1. When was eternal life loss for all of mankind?
2. What caused eternal to be loss for all of mankind?
Now the answer to these two questions is simple. They can be found quite easily within the bible. But more importantly......there is not MORE than one answer.
There was only ONE time that eternal life was loss for all of mankind!
And there was only ONE action that caused it!
Let's study God's word so that we can come up with a biblical answer....not an emotional one.
.
E
?????????????????????????????????????????
Nobody knows when it was that ALL of mankind loss eternal life?
And nobody knows what act it was that caused man to loose eternal life?
Basically.....when man lost eternal life he lost salvation. For until Jesus Christ came to shed His blood NOT one person that was ever born was able to receive salvation.
And no one knows when this happened or what caused it?
??????????????????????????????????????????
.
Nobody knows when it was that ALL of mankind loss eternal life?
And nobody knows what act it was that caused man to loose eternal life?
Basically.....when man lost eternal life he lost salvation. For until Jesus Christ came to shed His blood NOT one person that was ever born was able to receive salvation.
And no one knows when this happened or what caused it?
??????????????????????????????????????????
.
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E
depends on what you mean. Adam and eve were created body soul and spirit. alive to God, they died spiritually the moment they disobeyed God and became body and soul with their spirit dead to God.
one act of mankind. The sin of rejecting Gods standard and trying to instil their own way.
I do not see how this supports your teachings??
one act of mankind. The sin of rejecting Gods standard and trying to instil their own way.
I do not see how this supports your teachings??
E
Answered
wrong. Man did not lose salvation, they did not need salvation, they were created alive to God and was right with God of their own merit. one who is right with God of their own merit does not need saved.
Man lost LIFE, And because of this death, man lost the right to be right with God of their own merit, and thus needed saved. You are teaching man can once again merit their own salvation which is not biblical.
So adam was not saved? David was not saved even though he was called a friend of God. Wow, some people need to study.
How does scripture teach abraham was saved? Abraham BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS ACCREDITED TO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
funny, they are saved the same way we are. by faith in Gods promises.
wrong. Man did not lose salvation, they did not need salvation, they were created alive to God and was right with God of their own merit. one who is right with God of their own merit does not need saved.
Man lost LIFE, And because of this death, man lost the right to be right with God of their own merit, and thus needed saved. You are teaching man can once again merit their own salvation which is not biblical.
So adam was not saved? David was not saved even though he was called a friend of God. Wow, some people need to study.
How does scripture teach abraham was saved? Abraham BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS ACCREDITED TO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
funny, they are saved the same way we are. by faith in Gods promises.
When Jesus, Yeshua, spoke of the Way, He spoke only to Jews, though there were people of other nations who heard Him or of Him. Speaking to Jews of matters of the faith, to have spoken in another tongue than the Hebrew of His time would have been cause enough to have considered Him heretic for the then religious leaders. With this in mind, I have pasted and typed below certain words and their varied meanings for those who are studying to show themselves approved. I do know the ten commandments are not a burden to follow, nor are the two great laws of love. Perhaps this small effort will help all in some way. Blessed be all in Jesus Christ, Yeshua, amen. Pentateuch is a modern definition, the rest are old.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the (Torah) law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say to you, Till heaven and earth shall pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore shall break one of these least (Mitzvot) commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do, and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
תורה Torah
Torah
doctrine
theory
teaching
pentateuch
science
lore
מצות Mitzvot (Plural) from Mitzva
commandment
command
duty
precept
obligation
behest
law
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the (Torah) law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say to you, Till heaven and earth shall pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore shall break one of these least (Mitzvot) commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do, and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
תורה Torah
Torah
doctrine
theory
teaching
pentateuch
science
lore
מצות Mitzvot (Plural) from Mitzva
commandment
command
duty
precept
obligation
behest
law
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E
God's word tells us what sin is;
1 John 3
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
So we know that if a person sins they are breaking a law of God.
The scriptures also tells us that Adam sinned, thus Adam broke a law of God;
Rom.5
[14] Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Now that we know Adam broke a law of God, let's read what effect did that transgression have upon ALL of mankind;
1 Cor.15
[22] For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Rom.5
[12] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
God's word tells us that ALL have sinned, thus death was passed upon ALL men.
Now just how inclusive is "...all die...", "...so death passed upon all men..." and "...for that all have sinned:"? That would be ALL of mankind. From the first man Adam up until now...ALL have sinned and death was passed to ALL of mankind. That would include David, Abraham and ALL of the saints of the bible. And what death was it that was passed to ALL of mankind? Let's read.....
Heb.9
[27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Paul tells us that ALL men were appointed to die a natural death. So even Adam was never to keep a flesh and blood body even if he had not broken God's law. But after this natural death Paul then speaks of...."...the judgement." Let's find if there is another death. The one that was passed on to ALL man;
Rev.2
[11] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev.20
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
So now we see what death was passed on to all of mankind. The 'second'death! The death that will not allow one eternal life with God. This is the death that Adam brought upon ALL of mankind for breaking just one of God's laws.
Now as we know...Abraham, David and ALL of the other saints died with a good report. They were ALL righteous in the sight of the Lord. But what was yet needed for salvation? What act HAD to be accomplished before ALL of their sins were wiped away? Let's read...
Heb.9
[11] But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
[12] Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
[15] And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
So Christ had to shed His blood for any sins that were done in the OT so that those that were called might receive salvation. And what about those that died AFTER Christ shed His blood? Let's continue...
[28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
So the shedding of Christ blood wiped away the sins of those that were in the OT and even those AFTER His death look for Him in the future.
Now let's confirm...
Heb.10
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
[12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
So...the blood of Christ removed the sins of ALL that are set apart......past AND future.
What could have saved all of mankind other than the shedding of the blood of Christ?
Nothing!
.
1 John 3
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
So we know that if a person sins they are breaking a law of God.
The scriptures also tells us that Adam sinned, thus Adam broke a law of God;
Rom.5
[14] Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Now that we know Adam broke a law of God, let's read what effect did that transgression have upon ALL of mankind;
1 Cor.15
[22] For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Rom.5
[12] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
God's word tells us that ALL have sinned, thus death was passed upon ALL men.
Now just how inclusive is "...all die...", "...so death passed upon all men..." and "...for that all have sinned:"? That would be ALL of mankind. From the first man Adam up until now...ALL have sinned and death was passed to ALL of mankind. That would include David, Abraham and ALL of the saints of the bible. And what death was it that was passed to ALL of mankind? Let's read.....
Heb.9
[27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Paul tells us that ALL men were appointed to die a natural death. So even Adam was never to keep a flesh and blood body even if he had not broken God's law. But after this natural death Paul then speaks of...."...the judgement." Let's find if there is another death. The one that was passed on to ALL man;
Rev.2
[11] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev.20
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
So now we see what death was passed on to all of mankind. The 'second'death! The death that will not allow one eternal life with God. This is the death that Adam brought upon ALL of mankind for breaking just one of God's laws.
Now as we know...Abraham, David and ALL of the other saints died with a good report. They were ALL righteous in the sight of the Lord. But what was yet needed for salvation? What act HAD to be accomplished before ALL of their sins were wiped away? Let's read...
Heb.9
[11] But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
[12] Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
[15] And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
So Christ had to shed His blood for any sins that were done in the OT so that those that were called might receive salvation. And what about those that died AFTER Christ shed His blood? Let's continue...
[28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
So the shedding of Christ blood wiped away the sins of those that were in the OT and even those AFTER His death look for Him in the future.
Now let's confirm...
Heb.10
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
[12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
So...the blood of Christ removed the sins of ALL that are set apart......past AND future.
What could have saved all of mankind other than the shedding of the blood of Christ?
Nothing!
.
O
It can be compared to driving a car. You point the car in the right direction, but wind ("time and chance") can push you off the straight and narrow.
Many ideals we are measured against, assume we live in a vacuum, untouched and not influenced by others. Like a perfectly straight road with no other vehicles, no wind, and a car that never breaks down. Real life is a lot different.
Many ideals we are measured against, assume we live in a vacuum, untouched and not influenced by others. Like a perfectly straight road with no other vehicles, no wind, and a car that never breaks down. Real life is a lot different.
E
1. John said he removed the sins of the world. not just those set apart.
2. Scripture says Jesus made propitiation for our (those born again) sins, but not onloy ours, the sin of the whole world.
your right. nothing, so why are you adding to what Christ did in order to perfect and not lose ones salvation God gave freely to all who call on his name?
2. Scripture says Jesus made propitiation for our (those born again) sins, but not onloy ours, the sin of the whole world.
your right. nothing, so why are you adding to what Christ did in order to perfect and not lose ones salvation God gave freely to all who call on his name?
G
Nothing can take us away from the Love of God except us. We can, indeed, be led astray by the Evil One, as we forget that God's shed blood does, indeed, save us forevermore, as long as, we WANT to be saved, we WANT to be under the care of the Master's hand.
But does the bible say we can leave Him by 'the 'love' in us for Him leaving. Pretty simple. Or, does revelation say that we can, indeed, have our 'lampstand' removed. And, does Paul, indeed, say that 'some' will 'depart'?' And, does Hebrews 6:4, indeed, state that some will reject the sweetness of the Holy Spirit and 'fall away?' Indeed.
One will keep the commandments and laws of God IF they hope to go to Heaven (this is not speaking 'legalism' in any way, shape, or form! ) and they will do so with GRACE and MERCY and LOVE, given great understanding by God of their walk in faith NOT being come to 'dead' status. We MUST have the Spirit or we are 'dead,' so, it is with works. Although, this is NOT to say that 'works' get one to Heaven, as, EVERYTHING was finished AT THE CROSS .
So, yes, live with Him in you, who lives with Love, grace, mercy, abounding more than sin, which we do but is COMPLETELY covered by the blood of Christ,
But does the bible say we can leave Him by 'the 'love' in us for Him leaving. Pretty simple. Or, does revelation say that we can, indeed, have our 'lampstand' removed. And, does Paul, indeed, say that 'some' will 'depart'?' And, does Hebrews 6:4, indeed, state that some will reject the sweetness of the Holy Spirit and 'fall away?' Indeed.
One will keep the commandments and laws of God IF they hope to go to Heaven (this is not speaking 'legalism' in any way, shape, or form! ) and they will do so with GRACE and MERCY and LOVE, given great understanding by God of their walk in faith NOT being come to 'dead' status. We MUST have the Spirit or we are 'dead,' so, it is with works. Although, this is NOT to say that 'works' get one to Heaven, as, EVERYTHING was finished AT THE CROSS .
So, yes, live with Him in you, who lives with Love, grace, mercy, abounding more than sin, which we do but is COMPLETELY covered by the blood of Christ,
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yes keeping the ten commandments is needed for eternal life...and all have failed to do that except for Jesus so only through Jesus are we forgiven and received into God's loving presence if we turn to Him in love and turn from our sins...the entire preaching of Jesus was His call to repentance...as seen in His very first sermon recorded and the Beatitudes and various parables such as the Prodigal son and next His preaching consisted of God'sword and God' kingdom...as opposed to the kingdom of satan and the world...even though Jesus did not preach to crowds about turning from specific sins, failure to comply with God's moral law is sin and Jesus pointed that out on several occasions to various people such as the rich young ruler and others and He even pardoned the sins of some and that is something only God can do so Jesus was showing that He is God in human form...He is the Savior who we need to humbly submit to in order to receive pardon for our sins..by Jesus having received the punishment for our sins and we receiving the righteousness of Jesus...otherwise we remain in our sins and will be punished for alll eternity in hell...like the Prodigal son, as we return to God in love through Jesus, we are to bear the fruit of God's love as we aim to love God with our entire heart, mind, strength and soul through the moral laws that reflect the very nature of God and that is the ten commandments