Is LITERAL Hellfire Torment A Bible Teaching?

[Michael50]

Michael,

What do you mean by "unfallen worlds"?

Well, if you read the book of Job, you will see in Job 1:6,

"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and satan came with them."

Adam was to be the representative of Earth. But,, when he lost that to Satan in the garden. Satan presented himself along with the other Representatives from other worlds.

These beings along with the angels watched as God created the earth. As God explains to Job;

"Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth,,,,when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38;1-7

The morning stars were angels.. The sons of God beings from unfallen worlds.

Do you think i'm nuts yet?

Jesus is going to give Adam back everything that he lost to Satan in the garden and even more.. Just as God gave Job back what he had lost.

 

[leonardronaldo]

Judgement begins at the house of God. The cases of the saved are being reviewed right now. There is a record of everything you and I have ever said or done in heaven. When you die, if you are saved,,your case is reviewed, Satan says, you sinned,, God says,, yes,,, But, you repented. Therefore you are saved.

God is not concerned with with judging the wicked at time. The cases of the wicked will be reviewed by the saints during the 1000 years that we are in heaven with Jesus. A working vacation,, if you will..lol..

The Bible does say that we shall judge angels as well as the world.

You do not have to be alive to have your case reviewed. But, everybody will be convinced that God's judgements are just. Three groups will be convinced that God is just in His dealing with sinners. The saved, the wicked, and those of unfallen worlds.

If you are really interested in a fascinating sermon,, I strongly urge you to listen to Stephen Bohr's Presentation titled "Exonerating God".

It is most interesting. hopefully you will check it out.

where do the bible say the cases of the wicked will be reviewed later? the hebrews 9:27 says men, not saints only. Moreover, God is concerned every day, do you forget what David said? God is an angry God, Psalms 7:
11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day. and where do you get the saints are gonna review the cases of the wicked? working vacation lol yea right.
your soul don't have to be alive to have your case reviewed? is that biblical? and you call it just?

 

[Michael50]

where do the bible say the cases of the wicked will be reviewed later? the hebrews 9:27 says men, not saints only. Moreover, God is concerned every day, do you forget what David said? God is an angry God, Psalms 7:
11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day. and where do you get the saints are gonna review the cases of the wicked? working vacation lol yea right.
your soul don't have to be alive to have your case reviewed? is that biblical? and you call it just?

"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgement was given unto them." (Revelation 20:4)

"The judgement was set, and the books were opened." (Daniel 7;10)

"The dead were judged by those things written in the books, according to their works." (Revelation 20:12) notice that they are dead, not alive during this time of judgment.

"Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?...Know ye not that we shall judge angels?"

God doesn't need books to remind Himself of anything. The books are for us. That we might examine the records. Afterall,, people are going to have questions as to why certain people are not in heaven. All will be able to examine the cases of the wicked, so that they may know God is just with His dealing with every individual:

"God shall bring every work into judgement, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." (Eccle 12:14)


When Jesus returns in the clouds, the wicked living will be killed by His Presence.

While Jesus was on the Earth, His Divinity was hidden by the garb of humanity. Had His Divinity not been hidden,,nobody would have been able to live in the presence of Jesus.

When Jesus returns, we shall see Him as He really is!

 

[leonardronaldo]

"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgement was given unto them." (Revelation 20:4)

"The judgement was set, and the books were opened." (Daniel 7;10)

"The dead were judged by those things written in the books, according to their works." (Revelation 20:12) notice that they are dead, not alive during this time of judgment.

"Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?...Know ye not that we shall judge angels?"

God doesn't need books to remind Himself of anything. The books are for us. That we might examine the records. Afterall,, people are going to have questions as to why certain people are not in heaven. All will be able to examine the cases of the wicked, so that they may know God is just with His dealing with every individual:

"God shall bring every work into judgement, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." (Eccle 12:14)


When Jesus returns in the clouds, the wicked living will be killed by His Presence.

While Jesus was on the Earth, His Divinity was hidden by the garb of humanity. Had His Divinity not been hidden,,nobody would have been able to live in the presence of Jesus.

When Jesus returns, we shall see Him as He really is!

revelations 20:14 said this is the second death, which i think reveals that the Judgment in Revelation 20, the Great White Throne Judgment, the 'second' judgment, isn't that a possibility? Why I would never assume to 'know' much about revelation, since it is one of the most difficult to understand. but nothing's impossible for God, so if He wants me to understand much on the book of revelation, He will help give me the knowledge to do so.
other points you mentioned until Ecclesiastes 12:14, i mostly agree.

Jesus returns in the clouds, that's I believe would be another whole topic, whether rapture is gonna happen or no. and what will happen prior and after that incident.

 

[rstrats]

leonardronaldo,
re: "Have you read...?"


Yes, indeed. If I hadn't, how would I have been legitimately able to write that the surrounding verses didn't say anything about eternal, everlasting torture for the unsaved?
　


re: "..what do you think about the wicked and slothful servant mentioned in the verse 26, and the goats in the left mentioned in the verse 32 and 33? Who are they and what are their futures in that text?"


I guess I am one of "them" refered to in Matthew 13:11. What I do know, however, is that nothing is said in the parable about torturing the unsaved 24/7 for eternitly.

 

[Michael50]

revelations 20:14 said this is the second death, which i think reveals that the Judgment in Revelation 20, the Great White Throne Judgment, the 'second' judgment, isn't that a possibility? Why I would never assume to 'know' much about revelation, since it is one of the most difficult to understand. but nothing's impossible for God, so if He wants me to understand much on the book of revelation, He will help give me the knowledge to do so.
other points you mentioned until Ecclesiastes 12:14, i mostly agree.

Jesus returns in the clouds, that's I believe would be another whole topic, whether rapture is gonna happen or no. and what will happen prior and after that incident.

This is my understanding, in my own words. If you have a particular question, by all means, ask me:

Jesus shows up in the clouds.
Rightoeous dead raised, they join the Righteous living and meet Jesus in the air.
Living wicked killed at the appearance of Jesus in clouds.
Ressurected and living saints recieve immortality, given glorified bodies.
Saints go back to heaven with Jesus and reign with Him 1000 years.


During the 1000 years, earth in total blackout.
Satan and his angels left alone on earth. All wicked humans dead.
Satan has no power. because he has nobody to influence,,cause their all dead.

After the 1000 years;

Saints, Jesus, God the Father, all the angels, Holy City descend from heaven onto earth.
Jesus raise the wicked.
Satan loosed. he has power once again, now that the wicked are raised back to life and he can influence them.
Satan marshalls the wicked to surround the Holy City.
Fire falls on wicked devouring them. That is the 2nd death.
God makes a new Heaven and a new earth.

Questions?

 

[leonardronaldo]

leonardronaldo,
re: "Have you read...?"


Yes, indeed. If I hadn't, how would I have been legitimately able to write that the surrounding verses didn't say anything about eternal, everlasting torture for the unsaved?
　


re: "..what do you think about the wicked and slothful servant mentioned in the verse 26, and the goats in the left mentioned in the verse 32 and 33? Who are they and what are their futures in that text?"


I guess I am one of "them" refered to in Matthew 13:11. What I do know, however, is that nothing is said in the parable about torturing the unsaved 24/7 for eternitly.

lol
ok
let's read together.
Matthew 25
41 “Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I hungered, and ye gave Me no meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave Me no drink;
43 I was a stranger, and ye took Me not in; naked, and ye clothed Me not; sick and in prison, and ye visited Me not.’
44 Then shall they also answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when saw we Thee hungering or athirst or a stranger, or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister unto Thee?’
45 Then shall He answer them, saying, ‘Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to Me.’
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”

Still can't see it?

 

[leonardronaldo]

This is my understanding, in my own words. If you have a particular question, by all means, ask me:

Jesus shows up in the clouds.
Rightoeous dead raised, they join the Righteous living and meet Jesus in the air.
Living wicked killed at the appearance of Jesus in clouds.
Ressurected and living saints recieve immortality, given glorified bodies.
Saints go back to heaven with Jesus and reign with Him 1000 years.


During the 1000 years, earth in total blackout.
Satan and his angels left alone on earth. All wicked humans dead.
Satan has no power. because he has nobody to influence,,cause their all dead.

After the 1000 years;

Saints, Jesus, God the Father, all the angels, Holy City descend from heaven onto earth.
Jesus raise the wicked.
Satan loosed. he has power once again, now that the wicked are raised back to life and he can influence them.
Satan marshalls the wicked to surround the Holy City.
Fire falls on wicked devouring them. That is the 2nd death.
God makes a new Heaven and a new earth.

Questions?

bible verses?

 

[cfultz3]

Well, if you read the book of Job, you will see in Job 1:6,

"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and satan came with them."

Adam was to be the representative of Earth. But,, when he lost that to Satan in the garden. Satan presented himself along with the other Representatives from other worlds.

These beings along with the angels watched as God created the earth. As God explains to Job;

"Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth,,,,when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38;1-7

The morning stars were angels.. The sons of God beings from unfallen worlds.

Do you think i'm nuts yet?

Jesus is going to give Adam back everything that he lost to Satan in the garden and even more.. Just as God gave Job back what he had lost.

Michael,

I really do not know how to respond to this. With all due respect, I think our conversation should end here. In ending, consider that Jesus called His own self the Morning Star, and He is not angel. Consider also that it was the fallen sons of God, fallen angels, who bred with the women of humans and not aliens.

Some are not meant to be teachers.....

 

[Michael50]

Michael,

I really do not know how to respond to this. With all due respect, I think our conversation should end here. In ending, consider that Jesus called His own self the Morning Star, and He is not angel. Consider also that it was the fallen sons of God, fallen angels, who bred with the women of humans and not aliens.

Some are not meant to be teachers.....

Okay,, that is fine.

Job 38:7

"When the morning stars sang together.."

How many Jesus's are there up in heaven singing in unision? Stars,,,plural???? How many Jesus's do you have in heaven?

Please don't ask me any more questions. I will no longer reply with answers. You are dismissed,, you who beleives in several Jesuses.

 

[Michael50]

bible verses?

No thanks,, if you have a question, by all means, do ask,,, but,, I'm not going to provide scripture for each detail in one sitting..

How bout this,,I present you the Bible,,, it has all the scriptures that apply.. lol

 

[rstrats]

leonardronaldo,

re: "'And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.' Still can't see it?"


I see that the righteous will receive eternal life. That would seem to suggest that the unrighteous will not receive eternal life. I see that a punishment is to be handed down that will be in effect forever. What I don't see is where it says that the punishment is to consist of being tortured 24/7 forever.

 

[danschance]

leonardronaldo,

re: "'And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.' Still can't see it?"


I see that the righteous will receive eternal life. That would seem to suggest that the unrighteous will not receive eternal life. I see that a punishment is to be handed down that will be in effect forever. What I don't see is where it says that the punishment is to consist of being tortured 24/7 forever.

At 74 I hope you get that all sorted out.

 

[Shiloah]

Well, if you read the book of Job, you will see in Job 1:6,

"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and satan came with them."

Adam was to be the representative of Earth. But,, when he lost that to Satan in the garden. Satan presented himself along with the other Representatives from other worlds.

These beings along with the angels watched as God created the earth. As God explains to Job;

"Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth,,,,when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38;1-7

The morning stars were angels.. The sons of God beings from unfallen worlds.

Do you think i'm nuts yet?

Jesus is going to give Adam back everything that he lost to Satan in the garden and even more.. Just as God gave Job back what he had lost.

Wow! *Jaw drops* This is quite something! And it just so happens-- that I think this concept absolutely valid! But I've never heard anyone else say this before! But Michael? Now we're REALLY in trouble...... *putting on protective helmet*

 

[leonardronaldo]

No thanks,, if you have a question, by all means, do ask,,, but,, I'm not going to provide scripture for each detail in one sitting..

How bout this,,I present you the Bible,,, it has all the scriptures that apply.. lol

lol okay. i think to conclude, it's more important to be 'a sheep' that doesn't know about afterlife, but accepted by God; rather than a goat that knows about the afterlife, but rejected by God.

 

[leonardronaldo]

leonardronaldo,

re: "'And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.' Still can't see it?"


I see that the righteous will receive eternal life. That would seem to suggest that the unrighteous will not receive eternal life. I see that a punishment is to be handed down that will be in effect forever. What I don't see is where it says that the punishment is to consist of being tortured 24/7 forever.

Ok, Sir. So are you saying Satan and all his angels will not get an everlasting punishment forever as well?

 

[leonardronaldo]

At 74 I hope you get that all sorted out.

danschance, why do some people only believe it's just for God to receive them in His presence for just believing in a Gift and Grace from Son of God and the Holy Spirit in some 2 to 40 years or so?
Forever?
And even later glorify them?
Who are Christians, they still sin, they are not holy, what do christians' worth?

 

[TerryAllen]

I had rejected God on the basis of the teaching that He burns people torturously in an ever lasting fire. Only a monster would do such a thing and only a monster would call it good. I am glad I got over that nonsense and now know better. Keep telling the truth, my friend. Thank You.

 

[leonardronaldo]

I had rejected God on the basis of the teaching that He burns people torturously in an ever lasting fire. Only a monster would do such a thing and only a monster would call it good. I am glad I got over that nonsense and now know better. Keep telling the truth, my friend. Thank You.

You had rejected God? And then accepted Him?
Is he a train ticket or kind of accessory to you or what? lol

 

[danschance]

I had rejected God on the basis of the teaching that He burns people torturously in an ever lasting fire. Only a monster would do such a thing and only a monster would call it good. I am glad I got over that nonsense and now know better. Keep telling the truth, my friend. Thank You.

I am so glad for you. You twisted scripture into something acceptable for you. There is simply no better way at ignorant bliss than redefining the teachings of the bible. Bravo!