Is LITERAL Hellfire Torment A Bible Teaching?

[notuptome]

When Jesus died He comitted His spirit unto the Father. Just as the Bible says, the spirit returns unto God. The spirit if you study is the breath of life. Jesus did not just command His spirit to leave His body, He committed His spirit unto the Father.

It is a common misconception that Jesus died and His head fell upon His chest in defeat. Jesus was the Victor over death on the cross. It was a willful act when Jesus dismissed His Spirit from His body. He laid down His life and no man taketh it from Him. He then took it back up again when He arose from the tomb. Good stuff.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

How can they be the same man if they were in tow different places at the same time. Sounds like your theory is half baked.

Kind of funny when you consider Luke 16 is about hell. At least one half must have been thoroughly baked.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[danschance]

When Jesus died He comitted His spirit unto the Father. Just as the Bible says, the spirit returns unto God. The spirit if you study is the breath of life. Jesus did not just command His spirit to leave His body, He committed His spirit unto the Father.

There you go quoting ambiguous scriptures from the Old Testament again. Let's see what the New Testament says:

8This is why it[SUP]a[/SUP] says:“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”

9(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions ?
Eph. 4:8-10

Who are those captives that Jesus descended to, to liberate? Who was stuck in the lower earthly regions?

The story of Lazarus and the rich man tell us who they are. They are the righteous ones who died and stayed in abraham's bosom. They were spirits of the departed who were righteous.

 

[danschance]

ALTER2EGO -to- DANSCHANCE:
But that's just it. Neither the "Rich Man" nor "Lazarus" nor Abraham were conscious after death. The "Rich Man" and "Lazarus" were fictional characters. Neither of them actually existed in real life.


The Bible speaks of another Lazarus that was Jesus Christ's friend who died and was resurrected by Christ.

"{1} Now there was a certain man sick, Lazarus of Bethany, of the village of Mary and Martha her sister. {2} It was, in fact, the Mary that greased the Lord with the perfumed oil and wiped his feet dry with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick. {3} Therefore his [Lazarus] sisters dispatched word to him [Jesus], saying: "Lord, see! the one for whom you have affection is sick." (John 11:1-2)



Notice that this Lazarus is clearly identified by his village of Bethany and by the fact that he had two sisters, Mary and Martha, and that Jesus Christ valued him as a friend. In fact, he is identified as "the one for whom [Jesus] had affection." That particular Lazarus was no beggar struck with sores, whereas the Lazarus in the parable with the "Rich Man" was a beggar that was covered with sores or ulcers and was never identified as related to anyone. That's why he was out there begging, because he apparently had no relatives or friends to turn to for help. Notice this below.

"{19} But a certain man was rich, and he used to deck himself with purple and linen, enjoying himself from day to day with magnificence. {20} But a certain beggar named Lazarus used to be put at his gate, full of ulcers {21} and desiring to be filled with the things dropping from the table of the rich man. Yes, too, the dogs would come and lick his ulcers." (Luke 16:19-21)




As can be seen, the only person that was a real in the parable/illustration was Abraham. So you are left with a fictional "Rich Man" whose name and location is never given and a fictional "Lazarus" who clearly is not related to Mary and Martha.


Please explain how consciousness can be given to two fictional characters, as follows: (1) the "Rich Man", and (2) "Lazarus." If you can bring those two characters to life -- from their fictional non-existence -- then your next step is to explain where the Bible says Abraham, and any dead person, is conscious, when they are actually known to be dead.

One scripture can completly torpedo all the false beliefs above.

8This is why it[SUP]a[/SUP] says:“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”[SUP]b[/SUP]

9(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[SUP]c[/SUP] ? Ephesians 4:8-10

Jesus descended to the lower regions of this earth. He liberated those held captive in the place called Abraham's Bosom. Then He ascended with them to Heaven and they are there right now.

You need to abandon your kingdom hall , burn the trash you have collected from the Watchtower bible and tract society, ask to be forgiven for engaging in false doctrine and start a new life in Jesus.

 

[enoch1nine]

How can they be the same man if they were in tow different places at the same time. Sounds like your theory is half baked.

Look inside you. If you are called, you might find them.
Jesus is much more clever than the world gives Him credit for.

 

[danschance]

Look inside you. If you are called, you might find them.
Jesus is much more clever than the world gives Him credit for.

Sorry friend, you are preaching nonsense. I won't respond to this nonsense again. It isn't worth my time.

 

[Laodicea]

There you go quoting ambiguous scriptures from the Old Testament again. Let's see what the New Testament says:



Who are those captives that Jesus descended to, to liberate? Who was stuck in the lower earthly regions?

The story of Lazarus and the rich man tell us who they are. They are the righteous ones who died and stayed in abraham's bosom. They were spirits of the departed who were righteous.

Acts 2:31 KJV
(31) He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

What is hell in this verse?
1 Corinthians 15:55 KJV
(55) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Grave comes from the same word as hell. When Jesus descended into the lower regions it means He went to the grave.

Ephesians 4:8-10 KJV
(8) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
(9) (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
(10) He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Philippians 2:8-9 KJV
(8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
(9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Both of these verses have Jesus dying and ascending, So with all these verses in mind what does it mean that Jesus went to the lower parts of the earth? It means He died and went to the grave.

danschance what I see from you is that you quote a verse from the Bible and then use your opinion to tell us what that verse means. Use the Bible to interpret the Bible.

 

[SpaceCowboy]

Yes it is.

 

[notuptome]

Acts 2:31 KJV
(31) He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

What is hell in this verse?
1 Corinthians 15:55 KJV
(55) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Grave comes from the same word as hell. When Jesus descended into the lower regions it means He went to the grave.

Ephesians 4:8-10 KJV
(8) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
(9) (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
(10) He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Philippians 2:8-9 KJV
(8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
(9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Both of these verses have Jesus dying and ascending, So with all these verses in mind what does it mean that Jesus went to the lower parts of the earth? It means He died and went to the grave.

danschance what I see from you is that you quote a verse from the Bible and then use your opinion to tell us what that verse means. Use the Bible to interpret the Bible.

One thing for certain. Jesus did for us what we could never do for ourselves. When Jesus became sin for us He was separated from the Father. In so doing Jesus restored us to the Father.
The body goes into the grave but we are much more than flesh and bone. Absent from the body present with the Lord. It is appointed unto man once to die then the judgment. If you are not written in the Lambs book of life you are in serious trouble. Death does not improve the situation for the lost only makes it worse. Seek ye the Lord while He may be found.
For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[danschance]

danschance what I see from you is that you quote a verse from the Bible and then use your opinion to tell us what that verse means. Use the Bible to interpret the Bible.

If you want to downgrade my opinions by calling them opinions, feel free. Just keep in mind you do the exact same thing. Here is an example:

1 Corinthians 15:55 KJV
(55) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Grave comes from the same word as hell. When Jesus descended into the lower regions it means He went to the grave.

Now do you still want to call that an opinion, or would you call it an editorial comment. You decide.

I did not just post my "opinion". I posted scripture and explained why I posted that scripture--the same as you did and do.

By the way, Hell in the New Testament comes from the greek word "Hades". Hades has been translated as hell eleven times and only once as grave. The context of the passage determines which english word it is to be translated as. The story of Lazarus shows hades is not always a grave.

 

[danschance]

The spirit if you study is the breath of life.

This is all just your opinion. You need to use the bible to interpret the bible. No one wants just an opinion.

In Hebrew spirit is ruach. In Hebrew breath is Neshama.

 

[Laodicea]

This is all just your opinion. You need to use the bible to interpret the bible. No one wants just an opinion.

In Hebrew spirit is ruach. In Hebrew breath is Neshama.

The dead are asleep

Old Testament
1 Kings 2:10
(10) So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.
1 Kings 11:43
(43) And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.
1 Kings 14:31
(31) And Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David. And his mother's name was Naamah an Ammonitess. And Abijam his son reigned in his stead.
1 Kings 15:8
(8) And Abijam slept with his fathers; and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead.
1 Kings 16:28
(28) So Omri slept with his fathers, and was buried in Samaria: and Ahab his son reigned in his stead.

New Testament
John 11:11-14
(11) These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
(12) Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
(13) Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
(14) Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Mark 5:35-39
(35) While he yet spake, there came from the ruler of the synagogue's house certain which said, Thy daughter is dead: why troublest thou the Master any further?
(36) As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.
(37) And he suffered no man to follow him, save Peter, and James, and John the brother of James.
(38) And he cometh to the house of the ruler of the synagogue, and seeth the tumult, and them that wept and wailed greatly.
(39) And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
1 Corinthians 15:51
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

People will be woken when Jesus returns
Daniel 12:2
(2) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[danschance]

It means He died and went to the grave.

This is just your opinion and it contradicts the verse I posted.

(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above the heavens, that he might fill all things.) Eph. 4:9,10

It does not say he was dead as he lowered in the earth. This says He is the same descending as ascending. It never mentions the grave, you just inserted that because that is just your opinion.

 

[Laodicea]

This is just your opinion and it contradicts the verse I posted.

(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above the heavens, that he might fill all things.) Eph. 4:9,10

It does not say he was dead as he lowered in the earth. This says He is the same descending as ascending. It never mentions the grave, you just inserted that because that is just your opinion.

It contradicts your opinion not the verse.

 

[danschance]

It contradicts your opinion not the verse.

That is just your opinion.

 

[Laodicea]

That is just your opinion.

*[[Act 2:31]] KJV* He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

What is hell in this verse?

 

[danschance]

*[[Act 2:31]] KJV* He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

What is hell in this verse?

It does not say where hell is in that verse.

 

[Laodicea]

It does not say where hell is in that verse.

So how do we find out what hell is in that verse?

 

[Bluecomet]

This means while you are still alive, and before you except Jesus as your Savior, you are twice dead and don't know it.

 

[Bluecomet]

The answer to your question, Hell is in the center of the earth.