IS MAN TOTALLY DEPRAVED?

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Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,374
2,506
113
#41
Why do Calvinists make great telemarketers? Because they love to tell people they have been pre-qualified.
 
Nov 22, 2018
69
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#42
I understand that, all that , many uses that as an excuse to attack others. Jesus dint attack those who wanted to do His will but they were just confuse or misunderstood or mislead, many times did he explain. Do u remember the guy who thought He can outsmart Him by telling him off all the commandments and good deeds he did, But Jesus knew his thought but yet explained it with gentleness Lord is slow to anger every day we live with sins, resenting others and e.g but yet Him forgive us no matter what ,is another sign of how slow is He to anger. Read and understand well the scriptures on the times Jesus attacked people and get the difference before rebuking those that just need to be enlighten and those that just want to do their own will. And gentleness is good for the soul.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
14,224
2,150
113
#46
Somebody's gotta be preaching the Gospel, right? May as well be me and my other Reformed brothers and sisters on here. ;)

Soli Deo Gloria!

Well I don't agree with you on this one. But I have friends that do believe OSAS. So far they haven't convinced me. But the OP went a long way in shutting down conversation on the subject. If you want people to see your side of things,being rude isn't the way to do it. Anyhow,I've given you a thumbs up on a lot of posts,there is plenty we agree on,just not this particular subject.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
14,224
2,150
113
#47
Wayne Peterson of the ‘Alliance for the Unreached’ told CBN news “Out of the seven billion people on planet Earth, I think it’s 3.2 billion people, which is about 40 percent of the population, have no opportunity to hear the gospel where they live, in their location.” This was as of April 2018.

http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/201...sus-day-to-reach-the-unreached-set-for-may-20
So are you saying 3.2 billion people are lost and in hell because they didn't have the opportunity to hear the Gospel or read a Bible? God just chose to let them die in their sins??!!
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
14,224
2,150
113
#48
The OT is the NT concealed and the NT is the OT revealed...or something similar to this saying my friend. God has always had a chosen people, in both covenants. Israel in the OT, the church in the NT. Israel was the only nation God chose to carry out His will, as He justly left the other nations condemned in their sins...He did them no injustice at all in doing so, either.

For grace to be grace, it has to be free. He does not offer grace to everyone. If He has to, then it no longer is grace, but becomes an obligation.
Sorry,the church has not replaced Israel, that is false doctrine. Israel are still Gods chosen people today. Read Romans 11. Salvation is to the Jews first then we were grafted in.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
14,224
2,150
113
#49
I wonder why statements like this are being liked,this a chat site,right?The same topics are brought up over and over,right?
New members are coming on to the sight.
And new members can check the thousands of times this has been argued in other threads. It's all still here. Right?
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
8,275
1,847
113
#50
Well I don't agree with you on this one. But I have friends that do believe OSAS. So far they haven't convinced me. But the OP went a long way in shutting down conversation on the subject. If you want people to see your side of things,being rude isn't the way to do it. Anyhow,I've given you a thumbs up on a lot of posts,there is plenty we agree on,just not this particular subject.
Why do you see things as rude? There was no intention of this. I'm sorry my post upset you, but before God it was not intended to be rude. more jovial and actually serious at the same time if you know what I mean.

Now, you disagree that my Reformed friends and I preach the Gospel? If so, then you see we aren't preaching the Gospel, right?

Or are you aiming at the perseverance of the Saints, what you call "OSAS?" Is it OSAS and you saying you disagree with that?

OSAS by the way is a takeoff of the perseverance of the saints, and it has some serious issues especially in the Free Grace Theology camp. It isn't true Biblical teaching, so that may be one reason you are rejecting it because it has some issues, so we need to get to the real teaching from whence it came.

Please don't take this wrongly, as others do, or as an offense. I have lot's of learning to do, and read a lot of material, and enjoy reading. I read several commentaries per year, and they are a joy! Also read through Scripture at least twice per year, and listen to Sermons and theological discussions and debates almost daily. We also read Scripture with our 8 year old daughter, who loves to do so with us, and makes sure we remember nightly. Then we pray together as a family. It is all of grace, and we are so thankful to God. My wife prays and thanks God for our Bibles, the books, that we do this together. It's wonderful that God gives this grace!

I imagine that you've done much reading as well, and also have learning to do just like all of us. You enjoy discussing Scripture, read your Bible, read other books, love the LORD, lead your family spiritually, and you are my sister in Christ.

My request of you, if I may ask kindly dear sis, is that you go and read what perseverance of the saints is from the Reformed perspective to see what it teaches in depth. This isn't something that one can do quickly as the passages need to be studied out, commentary sought, context understood. Please share what you've read, from whom. We can discuss what you think are problem areas. At least that is an offer I am extending to you.

If you do read this through, and study it out afresh, you will find that its tenets are Biblical while being both exegetically and contextually accurate. That is what is important, that it is contextually accurate, and Biblical.
 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2018
1,708
881
113
#51
So are you saying 3.2 billion people are lost and in hell because they didn't have the opportunity to hear the Gospel or read a Bible? God just chose to let them die in their sins??!!
No. They are in hell because they were condemned already(John 3:18).
 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2018
1,708
881
113
#52
Sorry,the church has not replaced Israel, that is false doctrine. Israel are still Gods chosen people today. Read Romans 11. Salvation is to the Jews first then we were grafted in.
Never said the church replaced Israel my friend.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
8,275
1,847
113
#54
Sorry,the church has not replaced Israel, that is false doctrine. Israel are still Gods chosen people today. Read Romans 11. Salvation is to the Jews first then we were grafted in.
John 10:16. We are all one fold with one Shepherd.
 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2018
1,708
881
113
#55
So are you saying 3.2 billion people are lost and in hell because they didn't have the opportunity to hear the Gospel or read a Bible? God just chose to let them die in their sins??!!
Jesus said no one come to the Father except through Him(John 14:6). He said He was the gate into the sheep pen(John 10:7). Now, people know God through Jesus, not what they see...i.e. natural revelation. So, if they never had a bible or heard the gospel, there is no way they can get to heaven.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
14,224
2,150
113
#57
No. They are in hell because they were condemned already(John 3:18).
I'm not quite sure I follow you. You said these people had not heard the Gospel. But that was not the reason they were condemned? Can you explain why they were condemned. The 3.2 billion you were speaking of that is.
 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2018
1,708
881
113
#58
I'm not quite sure I follow you. You said these people had not heard the Gospel. But that was not the reason they were condemned? Can you explain why they were condemned. The 3.2 billion you were speaking of that is.
We are all born condemned in Adam. Psalm 51 and Psalm 58, Romans 5:12-19 and 1 Corinthians 15:22 attest to this.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
14,224
2,150
113
#59
Why do you see things as rude? There was no intention of this. I'm sorry my post upset you, but before God it was not intended to be rude. more jovial and actually serious at the same time if you know what I mean.

Now, you disagree that my Reformed friends and I preach the Gospel? If so, then you see we aren't preaching the Gospel, right?

Or are you aiming at the perseverance of the Saints, what you call "OSAS?" Is it OSAS and you saying you disagree with that?

OSAS by the way is a takeoff of the perseverance of the saints, and it has some serious issues especially in the Free Grace Theology camp. It isn't true Biblical teaching, so that may be one reason you are rejecting it because it has some issues, so we need to get to the real teaching from whence it came.

Please don't take this wrongly, as others do, or as an offense. I have lot's of learning to do, and read a lot of material, and enjoy reading. I read several commentaries per year, and they are a joy! Also read through Scripture at least twice per year, and listen to Sermons and theological discussions and debates almost daily. We also read Scripture with our 8 year old daughter, who loves to do so with us, and makes sure we remember nightly. Then we pray together as a family. It is all of grace, and we are so thankful to God. My wife prays and thanks God for our Bibles, the books, that we do this together. It's wonderful that God gives this grace!

I imagine that you've done much reading as well, and also have learning to do just like all of us. You enjoy discussing Scripture, read your Bible, read other books, love the LORD, lead your family spiritually, and you are my sister in Christ.

My request of you, if I may ask kindly dear sis, is that you go and read what perseverance of the saints is from the Reformed perspective to see what it teaches in depth. This isn't something that one can do quickly as the passages need to be studied out, commentary sought, context understood. Please share what you've read, from whom. We can discuss what you think are problem areas. At least that is an offer I am extending to you.

If you do read this through, and study it out afresh, you will find that its tenets are Biblical while being both exegetically and contextually accurate. That is what is important, that it is contextually accurate, and Biblical.

No,no not your post. You weren't rude at all. I was speaking of the OP,who I have also given a thumbs up several times. But no I didn't mean you.

Yes,OSAS is what I was speaking of. Though I do have questions about Calvinism. Again I have close friends who believe this,more than just one. Wonderful people. I just don't agree on some of the things they believe.

As to what you share that is none of my business. It's a free and open forum. The only point I was making is that this subject always dissolves into a shouting match with people getting angry and hurt. So why poke the bear when we have so many posts on it already?

I appreciate your patience. I'll warn you that it's hard to change the mind of an old Pentecostal. We're a pretty stubborn lot. Yes I do like reading a lot and learning. My parents often discussed politics,doctrine and social issues with us. We were mature for our age. Then I began in ministry when I was 16. Imagine that!! And I travelled in many churches and got perspective on many different issues among denominations. So I get that we don't all believe the same,though sometimes I think we are closer than we think we are.

Do you have any good links to share that I can give a read? I'll do my best to give it an honest look. Blessings.