Is marking of Mark of the Beast is literal or just figurative?

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May 29, 2018
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That's my point. If the sun, moon and stars event has not taken place, how could have begun during the time of the Apostles?

The darkening of the sun and moon and the stars falling to the earth, happen in close proximity to the Lord's return. So how can you say that it began in the times of the apostles? None of the events of wrath written in Revelation have yet taken place.
THE WRATH OF SATAN BEGAN SINCE APOSTLE'S TIME THEY WERE KILLED ONE BY ONE EXCEPT JOHN...
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Hello iamsoandso!

There is only one true gospel. The angel says:

"Fear God and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come. Worship the One who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and the springs of waters.”

Who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and all things?

"For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him."

The Father speaking about the Son:

"“In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garmenth they will be changed; but You remain the same, and Your years will never end.”

And

"Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Those great tribulation saints will be one of the groups on the earth during that time of which scripture states that they will have kept their testimony of Jesus and the word of God. And will not have worshiped the beast, his image, nor have received his mark.

The angel is preaching the same gospel (good news) message, which is to trust in Jesus for the forgiveness of sins, who created the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them.
Yes one judgement the hour or last day has come in the twinkling of a eye. The great tribulation of the saints that began when the time of reformation came marking the beginning of the last days a undetermined amount of time signified as thousand years.. .
 
May 29, 2018
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I think that you are very confused about end-time scriptures and the order in which everything is going to take place.
SURELY I AM NOT CONFUSE.
THERE WAS CHRISTIAN JEW A SURVIVOR OF HOLOCAUST OF HITLER, HE WAS VERY CONFUSE WHAT HAPPEN TO HIS FELLOWS THAT WERE SLAUGHTERED. HE THINKS SO MUCH OF THE SNATCHING OF THE BELIEVERS DURING THE PERILOUS TIME BUT IT NOT CAME... HE REALLY DOUBTS ABOUT IT.....
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Looks like I will have to post a thread on "The Heresy of Preterism".
You would do well to reserve the word "heresy" for subjects that actually warrant it, such as attacks on the deity or humanity of Christ. Otherwise, you will rob the word of both its meaning and its force.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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THE WRATH OF SATAN BEGAN SINCE APOSTLE'S TIME THEY WERE KILLED ONE BY ONE EXCEPT JOHN...
The wrath of God. Satan usurping the authority of the letter "Death" of the law. . . to kill humanity .He is a murderer from the beginning as the one father of all lies.

As the god of this world he works in men called antichrists to deceive mankind in order to believe they do need a corruptible man seen to teach them . He has no form but works in the unbelievers who in turn commit the abomination of desolation .Which is having the temporal corrupted things seen in the invisible Holy place of God who is not a man. This shows unbelief in mankind has no power by which they could believe God, not seen .

The law of faith the unseen understanding compared to the same the power of the gospel.

It apposes the oral tradition of men and points to the right manner of spirit.(not of our own selves.)

invisible things = the source of Faith that works in us as it did in Jesus

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Mathew 1:18-26

The Son of man put on corruptible flesh to do what the letter death could not. Reveal the law of faith making the law perfect. two parts as one labor of God's love.

We look to the things seen in order to receive His understanding. (2 Corinthians 4:18 ) the vision of faith . The golden measure.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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But in your opinion is it the same Gospel Paul is speaking of in Galatians or is it another Gospel that the angel in Revelation preaches? If not then those who hear it when the angel in Revelation 14:6 delivers it will remember what Paul said in Galatians 1:8 and view it as cursed as Paul says will they not?
I would offer a good way to determine what kind of gospel. . . is to follow the interpretation instructions. Then when it comes to rightly dividing the parables we can have the signified understanding. . . hid from those who seek after a signs and wonders gospel. He establishes the way we who walk by faith can hear him, as he does work to both will and do His good pleasure.

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

It must be applied to the parable chapter 20.
 
May 29, 2018
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How Did the Apostles Die?
They suffered greatly for their faith and in most cases met violent deaths on account of their bold witness.

Peter and Paul
Both martyred in Rome about 66 AD, during the persecution under Emperor Nero. Paul was beheaded. Peter was crucified, upside down at his request, since he did not feel he was worthy to die in the same manner as his Lord.

Andrew
went to the "land of the man-eaters," in what is now the Soviet Union. Christians there claim him as the first to bring the gospel to their land. He also preached in Asia Minor, modern-day Turkey, and in Greece, where he is said to have been crucified.

Thomas
was probably most active in the area east of Syria. Tradition has him preaching as far east as India, where the ancient Marthoma Christians revere him as their founder. They claim that he died there when pierced through with the spears of four soldiers.

Philip
possibly had a powerful ministry in Carthage in North Africa and then in Asia Minor, where he converted the wife of a Roman proconsul. In retaliation the proconsul had Philip arrested and cruelly put to death.

Matthew
the tax collector and writer of a Gospel ministered in Persia and Ethiopia. Some of the oldest reports say he was not martyred, while others say he was stabbed to death in Ethiopia.

Bartholomew
had widespread missionary travels attributed to him by tradition: to India with Thomas, back to Armenia, and also to Ethiopia and Southern Arabia. There are various accounts of how he met his death as a martyr for the gospel.

James
the son of Alpheus is one of at least three James referred to in the New Testament. There is some confusion as to which is which, but this James is reckoned to have ministered in Syria. The Jewish historian Josephus reported that he was stoned and then clubbed to death.

Simon the Zealot
so the story goes, ministered in Persia and was killed after refusing to sacrifice to the sun god.

Matthais
The apostle chosen to replace Judas. Tradition sends him to Syria with Andrew and to death by burning.

John
The only one of the apostles generally thought to have died a natural death from old age. He was the leader of the church in the Ephesus area and is said to have taken care of Mary the mother of Jesus in his home. During Domitian's persecution in the middle '90s, he was exiled to the island of Patmos. There he is credited with writing the last book of the New Testament--the Revelation. An early Latin tradition has him escaping unhurt after being cast into boiling oil at Rome.
 
May 29, 2018
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You can't discourage anyone from indulging in fantasies.
True! It's just too bad that he has been influenced by the fantacy of preterism.
The opening of the 7 seals in Revelation is just a replay of the prophecy of Jesus in Matthew chptr 24 and Mark chptr 13 from the false Christ, the persecution to death of Apostles up to heavenly signs(moon/sun dark).

How Did the Apostles Die?
They suffered greatly for their faith and in most cases met violent deaths on account of their bold witness.


Peter and Paul
Both martyred in Rome about 66 AD, during the persecution under Emperor Nero. Paul was beheaded. Peter was crucified, upside down at his request, since he did not feel he was worthy to die in the same manner as his Lord.

Andrew
went to the "land of the man-eaters," in what is now the Soviet Union. Christians there claim him as the first to bring the gospel to their land. He also preached in Asia Minor, modern-day Turkey, and in Greece, where he is said to have been crucified.

Thomas
was probably most active in the area east of Syria. Tradition has him preaching as far east as India, where the ancient Marthoma Christians revere him as their founder. They claim that he died there when pierced through with the spears of four soldiers.

Philip
possibly had a powerful ministry in Carthage in North Africa and then in Asia Minor, where he converted the wife of a Roman proconsul. In retaliation the proconsul had Philip arrested and cruelly put to death.

Matthew
the tax collector and writer of a Gospel ministered in Persia and Ethiopia. Some of the oldest reports say he was not martyred, while others say he was stabbed to death in Ethiopia.

Bartholomew
had widespread missionary travels attributed to him by tradition: to India with Thomas, back to Armenia, and also to Ethiopia and Southern Arabia. There are various accounts of how he met his death as a martyr for the gospel.

James
the son of Alpheus is one of at least three James referred to in the New Testament. There is some confusion as to which is which, but this James is reckoned to have ministered in Syria. The Jewish historian Josephus reported that he was stoned and then clubbed to death.

Simon the Zealot
so the story goes, ministered in Persia and was killed after refusing to sacrifice to the sun god.

Matthais
The apostle chosen to replace Judas. Tradition sends him to Syria with Andrew and to death by burning.

John
The only one of the apostles generally thought to have died a natural death from old age.
He was the leader of the church in the Ephesus area and is said to have taken care of Mary the mother of Jesus in his home. During Domitian's persecution in the middle '90s, he was exiled to the island of Patmos. There he is credited with writing the last book of the New Testament--the Revelation. An early Latin tradition has him escaping unhurt after being cast into boiling oil at Rome.

VERILY THE SEVEN SEALS OF REVELATION ALREADY PROPHESIED BY JESUS AT OLIVET AND PARTLY FULFILLED SINCE THE TIME OF HIS APOSTLES, AND NOT WHAT YOU BELIEFS THAT STILL IN THE FUTURE OF YOUR SO-CALLED "7 YEARS TRIBULATION".
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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VERILY THE SEVEN SEALS OF REVELATION ALREADY PROPHESIED BY JESUS AT OLIVET AND PARTLY FULFILLED
While some may not agree, I believe the first five seals were opened in the first century, and those events have continued to this day. Those are called "the beginning of sorrows".

However, the 6th and 7th seal events are in the future, and they include the Tribulation, the Great Tribulation, and the subsequent cataclysmic cosmic events.
 
May 29, 2018
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While some may not agree, I believe the first five seals were opened in the first century, and those events have continued to this day. Those are called "the beginning of sorrows".

However, the 6th and 7th seal events are in the future, and they include the Tribulation, the Great Tribulation, and the subsequent cataclysmic cosmic events.
Yes, the 6th and the 7th still in the future.
The Tribulation had already happened in the past like the persecution to death of Apostles and the destruction of the Temple, I cannot tell if there is another fulfillment of the destruction of the Temple in this coming very last days.
 
Apr 9, 2020
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Greetings ScottyPchristian!

I totally agree with your first paragraph, not the second. The saints mentioned in Revelation could not be referring to the saints throughout all of history and that because it is said that they will have not worshiped the beast, his image nor received his mark. These details would put those saints as being present during the time of the beasts reign. The saints that it is speaking about, are the great tribulation saints, which are those who will have believed in Christ after the church has been caught up. See the following:

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands."

"And I saw something like a sea of glass mixed with fire, beside which stood those who had conquered the beast and its image and the number of its name.

The fact that they did not worship the beast, his image nor received his mark, would put these saints as being in the time when the beast is on the earth. It therefore could not be referring to the saints from all ages and that because the beast has not even been revealed yet.



The beast system is not killing the saints currently living. The reason that they are dying, is because Jesus said that those who believe in Him would have trials and tribulation because , which comes at the hands of men and the powers of darkness. In opposition, the wrath that is coming will be God's direct wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments



Though the technology for the mark is here and has been evolving, it has not yet been made mandatory for electronic buying and selling. Therefore, no one has yet been murdered for refusing the mark. That won't happen until the antichrist stands in the temple proclaiming himself to be God.
I appreciate your help with understanding the book of revelation. My main problem is confusion, due to reading conflicting articles and listening to conflicting sermons on this topic.

There are many convincing views, held by opposing Bible scholars. Some claim that the "mark of the beast", is not a physical tangible thing like a microchip. They propose that it's a spiritual state, where a person has been indoctrinated into the Satanic Beast system and they have given themselves over to serve it. So there are two main schools of thought, those who take these scriptures literally and those who take them as symbolic signs of things which will take place in the last days.

We find similar disagreement among the scholars, over the prophecies Jesus gave (I believe it's in the gospel of Matthew) about the destruction of Jerusalem. Some say that those refer to a time to come and others say that they were already fulfilled in the first century.

I still haven't settled on my position, regarding eschatology. I have dismissed the pre-millennial view as being incorrect but I haven't quite settled on a A-millennial or post-millennial standpoint but I am leaning towards the A-millennial position. I have put these questions on the back burner, because I dedicated most of my study to theology. But I do think the book of revelation is very important, as we see the world changing so fast. So we may be living in the generation which will see the great tribulation.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I appreciate your help with understanding the book of revelation. My main problem is confusion, due to reading conflicting articles and listening to conflicting sermons on this topic.

There are many convincing views, held by opposing Bible scholars. Some claim that the "mark of the beast", is not a physical tangible thing like a microchip. They propose that it's a spiritual state, where a person has been indoctrinated into the Satanic Beast system and they have given themselves over to serve it. So there are two main schools of thought, those who take these scriptures literally and those who take them as symbolic signs of things which will take place in the last days.

We find similar disagreement among the scholars, over the prophecies Jesus gave (I believe it's in the gospel of Matthew) about the destruction of Jerusalem. Some say that those refer to a time to come and others say that they were already fulfilled in the first century.

I still haven't settled on my position, regarding eschatology. I have dismissed the pre-millennial view as being incorrect but I haven't quite settled on a A-millennial or post-millennial standpoint but I am leaning towards the A-millennial position. I have put these questions on the back burner, because I dedicated most of my study to theology. But I do think the book of revelation is very important, as we see the world changing so fast. So we may be living in the generation which will see the great tribulation.
Like David said .If a person destroys the foundation of the doctrines of God. What can a believer do. ? Like most cases Genesis sets the stage for the rest of the book of the law the Bible. And the mark is no different. Men literalizing the signified spiritual understanding destroy the foundation .

The mark clearly has nothing to do with a outward sign .There is no warning not to receive that or some electronic device. The problem is spiritual not seen. Not the flesh the temporal. The flesh is already carrying out the sufferings of a literal hell

The mark is the letter of the word death a literal living hell all the days of ones life. .His word is law. What he says comes to pass .Ye will surely die not maybe. and the load getting lighter for him no way did Cain receive the sabbath rest.

Cain is used to represent unbelief natural unconverted mankind 666 .

The labor pain of death under the wage of sin was increased when Cain plowed his brother Abel under as the first martyr.

Satan working in Cain tried to bargain with God he did not want to surfer the increase .He had no sabbath rest with Christ as did Abel.

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. Genesis 4:7-15
 

ZiiiiWill

New member
May 13, 2020
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The mark of the beast, I suppose must really translate as Sick that makes people Sick that gets things Sicker.
It is said, you must forgive 70x7,
Punishment that is just, and does not overflow onto others, causing them harm.

I suppose it is wrong, that people are evil if they buy or sell.
A state with fair welfare would be good enough,
Otherwise it would be rationing. Which is about the same.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,131
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You would do well to reserve the word "heresy" for subjects that actually warrant it, such as attacks on the deity or humanity of Christ. Otherwise, you will rob the word of both its meaning and its force.
Hi Dino!

I'd have to agree with preterism as being heresy. It is one of the most destructive teachings out there. Those who have studied Revelation and know about the wrath given in detail, should be using that information to warn people of the coming wrath. Preterism dilutes that wrath by allegorizing and symbolizing that information. Nothing to see here! Nothing to worry about. Preterism is robing God's word of both its meaning and its force. So yeah, I would agree with Nehemiah's choice of words.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,897
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Hi Dino!

I'd have to agree with preterism as being heresy. It is one of the most destructive teachings out there. Those who have studied Revelation and know about the wrath given in detail, should be using that information to warn people of the coming wrath. Preterism dilutes that wrath by allegorizing and symbolizing that information. Nothing to see here! Nothing to worry about. Preterism is robing God's word of both its meaning and its force. So yeah, I would agree with Nehemiah's choice of words.
We'll have to agree to disagree then. I have been researching preterism, and have not found anything yet that I would call heretical.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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Hello iamsoandso!

There is only one true gospel. The angel says:

"Fear God and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come. Worship the One who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and the springs of waters.”

Who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and all things?

"For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him."

The Father speaking about the Son:

"“In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garmenth they will be changed; but You remain the same, and Your years will never end.”

And

"Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Those great tribulation saints will be one of the groups on the earth during that time of which scripture states that they will have kept their testimony of Jesus and the word of God. And will not have worshiped the beast, his image, nor have received his mark.

The angel is preaching the same gospel (good news) message, which is to trust in Jesus for the forgiveness of sins, who created the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them.

So your saying that the Gospel that the angel in Rev.14:6 delivers is the exact same Gospel as Paul delivered and spoke of in Galatians 1:8?
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
6,107
1,048
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I would offer a good way to determine what kind of gospel. . . is to follow the interpretation instructions. Then when it comes to rightly dividing the parables we can have the signified understanding. . . hid from those who seek after a signs and wonders gospel. He establishes the way we who walk by faith can hear him, as he does work to both will and do His good pleasure.

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

It must be applied to the parable chapter 20.
Thank you for the advice on how to see it but I wasn't asking how to reason it's meaning,rather his opinion of it. Do you have an opinion of which it is you did not give it?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,131
2,353
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I appreciate your help with understanding the book of revelation. My main problem is confusion, due to reading conflicting articles and listening to conflicting sermons on this topic.

There are many convincing views, held by opposing Bible scholars. Some claim that the "mark of the beast", is not a physical tangible thing like a microchip. They propose that it's a spiritual state, where a person has been indoctrinated into the Satanic Beast system and they have given themselves over to serve it. So there are two main schools of thought, those who take these scriptures literally and those who take them as symbolic signs of things which will take place in the last days.
The problem with those who interpret it as "not a physical, tangible thing" are blatantly ignoring the plain literal meaning of what the scripture is saying and replacing it with symbolism or allegory, when there is nothing in the context that would lead the reader to even pursue those interpretations. In other words, the forcing those interpretations without any basis for doing so.

We find similar disagreement among the scholars, over the prophecies Jesus gave (I believe it's in the gospel of Matthew) about the destruction of Jerusalem. Some say that those refer to a time to come and others say that they were already fulfilled in the first century.
The above is exactly why we should be studying God's word, so that we can contend for the truth. For example, you your mention of the destruction of Jerusalem, there are unfulfilled prophecies that go with that. From the time that Jesus quoted Daniel 9:27 stating that the ruler would establish a covenant with Israel for seven years. In the middle of that seven years he would cause their sacrifices and offerings to cease and set up an abomination that causes desolation in the holy place within the temple. The problem is that from the time Jesus quoted this to the destruction of the temple, those prophesies were never fulfilled and therefore must yet take place, because all scripture must be fulfilled.

I still haven't settled on my position, regarding eschatology. I have dismissed the pre-millennial view as being incorrect but I haven't quite settled on a A-millennial or post-millennial standpoint but I am leaning towards the A-millennial position. I have put these questions on the back burner, because I dedicated most of my study to theology. But I do think the book of revelation is very important, as we see the world changing so fast. So we may be living in the generation which will see the great tribulation.
What you mentioned above regarding Amillennial and post millennial, are easy to contend against. Before the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, the long prophesied "Day of the Lord" must take place of which Revelation is a detailed account of. That time will be like no time in the history of the world. Jesus took upon himself God's wrath that every believer deserves satisfying it completely. We were credited with the righteousness of Christ and reconciled to God through faith in Christ. Therefore, believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath, because Jesus already did. This is the underlying principle. In addition, God does not punish the righteous with the wicked. Since this wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will affect all people on the face of the whole earth, then the Lord is going to keep His promise of catching us up and taking us back to the Father's house (John 14:1-3/I Thess.4:16-17) prior to the opening of the fist seal which initiates His wrath.

But I do think the book of revelation is very important, as we see the world changing so fast.
I would wholeheartedly agree and them some:

"Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near."

"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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Nice, I would be most curious to see how he will reply to this question of yours. ;)
lol, You seem to know why I ask and understand it might mean something to camp A,B,C or D,,,it's probably profitable if they consider their camps position on the matter while looking at the question.